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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:42 am 
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I like haggis wrote:
Market Square Hero wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Our Director of Rugby looks to be getting things right...


About bloody time! That's once in, what, 8 years that he's been behind some good happening.


5 years with 3 as DoR I think now. In any case, the academies and coaching pathway are really working nicely.


If he is behind this then credit where it is due, he's a shit coach but he may have found his calling as DoR.

So our U20's have only lost one game against the baby blacks who look likely to win it, bloody good going from the young lads.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:42 am 
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Lorthern Nights wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Market Square Hero wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Our Director of Rugby looks to be getting things right...


About bloody time! That's once in, what, 8 years that he's been behind some good happening.


5 years with 3 as DoR I think now. In any case, the academies and coaching pathway are really working nicely.


If he is behind this then credit where it is due, he's a shit coach but he may have found his calling as DoR.

So our U20's have only lost one game against the baby blacks who look likely to win it, bloody good going from the young lads.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Really nice interview with Hoggy in this months Rugby World. Basically admits he was a dick for a few years but came to his senses at the beginning of Glasgow's title winning season. Top lad. Has Ben Smiths shirt framed on the wall.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:31 am 
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Raging at the team Toony selected for the game, f**king Tonks, Jones and Hughes. Obviously not expecting us to stand a chance of winning so throwing god knows what combinations together for no f**king reason.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:36 am 
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Troll wrote:
Raging at the team Toony selected for the game, f**king Tonks, Jones and Hughes. Obviously not expecting us to stand a chance of winning so throwing god knows what combinations together for no f**king reason.


It makes me very worried about Townsend as an international selector. We should try to win these matches, not go out conceding defeat by picking a joke back three. Just makes no sense at all. The rugby world will be watching, if we'd put out a full team we could have earned a little respect and proved that our lions under-representation was the injustice we know it to be. but it seems that Toonie is throwing this match and aiming for a 2 from 3 return for the tour. Wins vs Italy & Fiji will earn us nothing, whereas a win vs Oz could've been historic but he's obviously acccepting that that is not possible. So disappointing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:22 am 
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Wylie Coyote wrote:
Troll wrote:
Raging at the team Toony selected for the game, f**king Tonks, Jones and Hughes. Obviously not expecting us to stand a chance of winning so throwing god knows what combinations together for no f**king reason.


It makes me very worried about Townsend as an international selector. We should try to win these matches, not go out conceding defeat by picking a joke back three. Just makes no sense at all. The rugby world will be watching, if we'd put out a full team we could have earned a little respect and proved that our lions under-representation was the injustice we know it to be. but it seems that Toonie is throwing this match and aiming for a 2 from 3 return for the tour. Wins vs Italy & Fiji will earn us nothing, whereas a win vs Oz could've been historic but he's obviously acccepting that that is not possible. So disappointing.

Because Toonie has so much form for chucking games :roll:

It's his first tour in charge and it's the only free shot he'll have to try players out in his system with little consequence. The RWC draw is done, improved ratings although nice are pointless just now. Showing the world our Lions rep is undeserved etc, who gives a fuck? Results against the 6Ns teams ate the only thing that will change any minds. Even then the only positive would be for fan interaction and maybe someone gets a good experience four years from now.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:53 am 
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HP, what future, far and near, do Jones and Tonks have with the Scotland team?

Compared to say Hoyland and Jackson?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:08 am 
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Jones has at least shown decent form for Glasgow. Tonks is the one I really can't understand. I accept that our first choice was with the Lions (and now injured), our second choice is injured, and our third choice with the U20s, but still... surely Jackson was the better option?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:18 am 
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Some season for Greig. Gone from playing Rotherham and Richmond away to the Wallabies in Sydney.

Am a touch surprised he's back involved though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:23 am 
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I can understand wanting to move Taylor to centre but then putting Tonks at FB and leave Visser out completely for Hughes - unless it's because of injury I cannot understand that at all.

Apart from the back three that is a cracking team though. Would personally have kept Strauss at 8 but Wilson has shown he's quality too.

The Toonie Tombola is alive and well 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:07 am 
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clydecloggie wrote:
I can understand wanting to move Taylor to centre but then putting Tonks at FB and leave Visser out completely for Hughes - unless it's because of injury I cannot understand that at all.

Apart from the back three that is a cracking team though. Would personally have kept Strauss at 8 but Wilson has shown he's quality too.

The Toonie Tombola is alive and well 8)

Visser is injured apparently.

If it was Jackson at FB for Tonks, I'd have been a little happier but otherwise I see no reason to panic. Hoyland would edge it over Hughes for sure given his pace and try scoring ability but there's not a huge amount in it.

Folk need to calm doon hen.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:35 am 
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clydecloggie wrote:
I can understand wanting to move Taylor to centre but then putting Tonks at FB and leave Visser out completely for Hughes - unless it's because of injury I cannot understand that at all.

Apart from the back three that is a cracking team though. Would personally have kept Strauss at 8 but Wilson has shown he's quality too.

The Toonie Tombola is alive and well 8)


The back row is delicious.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:49 am 
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I think there's concern about Hoyland's height and his dealing with high ball. Otherwise, I'd have him ahead of the others. I wanted to see Taylor at 12 so in a way I'm glad about that. Unfortunate that it leaves us bereft of quality at 15 but hey ho. I'd feel exactly the same way had Jackson been picked. Choice between a poo and a turd once Taylor was moved. And Scott was poor vs Italy. Giving Taylor plenty of game time at 12 is for me a key outcome for this tour.

The odd one for me is THP. I guess Nel may still be blowing a bit. But he was excellent last weekend. If he'd played in the ^N match vs France.... And if he's well enough to bench, start him FFS.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:06 am 
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GWWG wrote:
I think there's concern about Hoyland's height and his dealing with high ball. Otherwise, I'd have him ahead of the others. I wanted to see Taylor at 12 so in a way I'm glad about that. Unfortunate that it leaves us bereft of quality at 15 but hey ho. I'd feel exactly the same way had Jackson been picked. Choice between a poo and a turd once Taylor was moved. And Scott was poor vs Italy. Giving Taylor plenty of game time at 12 is for me a key outcome for this tour.

The odd one for me is THP. I guess Nel may still be blowing a bit. But he was excellent last weekend. If he'd played in the ^N match vs France.... And if he's well enough to bench, start him FFS.


Toonie is keeping the club front rows together. Makes sense to me; Reid and Dell are interchangeable level and a fit Nel coming on for Fagerson at 60 minutes against the Aussie replacement front row I can live with as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:15 am 
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Sorry CC, the gap between Nel and Fagerson is as wide as the pair of the put together. With me added in for good measure.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:22 am 
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Troll wrote:
HP, what future, far and near, do Jones and Tonks have with the Scotland team?

Compared to say Hoyland and Jackson?

Jones has had a good season for Glasgow, he's not got the potential ceiling of Hoyland but you can't overlook a smart agile player in good form and who has learned from his mistakes. Vissers is crocked btw.

Tonks? Had to be him or Jackson and if Rhuaridh was making a case in training which Toonie couldn't ignore than you'd have to thinl he'd be starting instead.

Other wing, Hughes has about 4 inches and a fair few kilos on Hoyland. Give them all a chance and play what's in front of you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Troll wrote:
Raging at the team Toony selected for the game, f**king Tonks, Jones and Hughes. Obviously not expecting us to stand a chance of winning so throwing god knows what combinations together for no f**king reason.

Tonks - Australia will look to pull us all over the place with their passing game so we need an actual full back for this game with decent positional awareness. A big boot in the backline will also be useful.

Jones - the form winger in Scotland in 2017 so if the team picked for Italy had been a straight first choice (from the available players) Jones would have started ahead of Hoyland.

Hughes - Visser is injured and with the Wallabies back 3 it would make no sense to go for 2 small wingers.

With all 4 of the guys who featured in the back 3 during the Six Nations unavailable what are the options? Full back is becoming a pressing issue at both club and national level. The guys I can think of who have played at full back for Scotland in the last 4/5 years are:

Hogg - Lions
Maitland - injured
Seymour - Lions
Jackson - on tour but not a full back
Taylor - on tour but not a full back
Tonks - on tour, more of a full back than the other options and playing
Lamont - retired
Murchie - retired

Some serious misfortune to have Hogg and Maitland both missing at the same time but we do need more options at 15 over the next couple of seasons.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:19 pm 
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The selection of Tonks is neither about form nor combination, the selection of Hughes is not about form, the selection of Jones is not about combination or future.

It's neither a here nor there selection. You can't say it's first about trying new combinations and then say it's about form or ethic in training.

Tonks wasn't even the starting option for a club in the English second division a few weeks ago ffs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:23 pm 
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Am I the only one getting the feeling that Laidlaw is going to make the test squad as a safe, back up option. :frown:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Its like Aberdeen fans trying to defend Darren Mackie because he tries. Have you all* forgotten how rotten Tonks was for both Scotland and Embra? Shit coaches aside he doesn't appear to have improved his fortunes down south.

Furthermore the stuff about height is nonsense for these players. Hughes is no better than Jones or Hoyland for his height, and if you're willing to argue Tonks is more competent in the air than Jackson we'll have to agree to disagree.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Troll wrote:
The selection of Tonks is neither about form nor combination, the selection of Hughes is not about form, the selection of Jones is not about combination or future.

It's neither a here nor there selection. You can't say it's first about trying new combinations and then say it's about form or ethic in training.

Tonks wasn't even the starting option for a club in the English second division a few weeks ago ffs.

It's about a whole rake of things, most of which have already been mentioned. It's not just Toony f**king around for shits and giggles.

Troll wrote:
Its like Aberdeen fans trying to defend Darren Mackie because he tries. Have you all* forgotten how rotten Tonks was for both Scotland and Embra? Shit coaches aside he doesn't appear to have improved his fortunes down south.

Furthermore the stuff about height is nonsense for these players. Hughes is no better than Jones or Hoyland for his height, and if you're willing to argue Tonks is more competent in the air than Jackson we'll have to agree to disagree.

We can't whistle up a better full back from somewhere. We're at the bare bones. Toony has chosen to go with the player in the squad who knows the role best ahead of playing a better player (Taylor) with barely any experience of the position and who was pulled all over the place by a poor Italian side who wouldn't know an attacking move if it hit them in the arse.

Heights of the Australian back 3 - 6'3" / 6'4" / 6'5".
Height of Rory Hughes - 6'2"
Height of Damien Hoyland - 5'10"

It's a factor in the selection. Not the only one but it will have come into the decision.

Ultimately you seem to be arguing about the difference between playing a back 3 of:

Jackson / Jones / Hoyland
v
Tonks / Jones / Hughes

The difference there is marginal at best and neither trio is particularly palatable compared to what we can call on at full strength. But we are where we are. Need to keep the ball off the Aussies and turn it into a forwards battle where we actually should have an edge.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:40 pm 
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hp18 wrote:
Troll wrote:
HP, what future, far and near, do Jones and Tonks have with the Scotland team?

Compared to say Hoyland and Jackson?

Jones has had a good season for Glasgow, he's not got the potential ceiling of Hoyland but you can't overlook a smart agile player in good form and who has learned from his mistakes. Vissers is crocked btw.

Tonks? Had to be him or Jackson and if Rhuaridh was making a case in training which Toonie couldn't ignore than you'd have to thinl he'd be starting instead.

Other wing, Hughes has about 4 inches and a fair few kilos on Hoyland. Give them all a chance and play what's in front of you.


Jones was probably the form Scottish winger the second half of the season - bar maybe Visser.

Hughes and Tonks though aren't up to it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:47 pm 
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I like haggis wrote:
hp18 wrote:
Troll wrote:
HP, what future, far and near, do Jones and Tonks have with the Scotland team?

Compared to say Hoyland and Jackson?

Jones has had a good season for Glasgow, he's not got the potential ceiling of Hoyland but you can't overlook a smart agile player in good form and who has learned from his mistakes. Vissers is crocked btw.

Tonks? Had to be him or Jackson and if Rhuaridh was making a case in training which Toonie couldn't ignore than you'd have to thinl he'd be starting instead.

Other wing, Hughes has about 4 inches and a fair few kilos on Hoyland. Give them all a chance and play what's in front of you.


Jones was probably the form Scottish winger the second half of the season - bar maybe Visser.

Hughes and Tonks though aren't up to it.


The last time we had this threadbare a squad was v SA in the quadrangular tournament when everyone was injured. I thought we would get manshamed by the Boks, but the stand-in players (including Murchie at FB) gave a good account of themselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:17 am 
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topofthemoon wrote:
It's about a whole rake of things, most of which have already been mentioned. It's not just Toony f**king around for shits and giggles.


I don't see the reasons given either in isolation or combination as justified in the slightest.

poster wrote:
We can't whistle up a better full back from somewhere. We're at the bare bones. Toony has chosen to go with the player in the squad who knows the role best ahead of playing a better player (Taylor) with barely any experience of the position and who was pulled all over the place by a poor Italian side who wouldn't know an attacking move if it hit them in the arse.

Heights of the Australian back 3 - 6'3" / 6'4" / 6'5".
Height of Rory Hughes - 6'2"
Height of Damien Hoyland - 5'10"

It's a factor in the selection. Not the only one but it will have come into the decision.


Again I disagree with the justification. I would argue Tonks can't perform the role better (fudge knowing a role better) than stop gap players for 15 like Jackson or Taylor (and no I wouldn't have him there against Australia out of the pick, but all day over Tonks) and my justification for that is Tonks wasn't even a starting player for a championship level club in that position last month. I'd rather have Jackson's 10 minutes at 15 in a professional league and whatever run training he went through with Cotter than a dozen of Tonks' appearances against Jersey and Isle of Man.

The heights - come on, I trust you're not ignoring the point that I feel their superior height means fudge all if they can't position themselves to, or actually catch a ball or make a tackle.

Quote:
Ultimately you seem to be arguing about the difference between playing a back 3 of:

Jackson / Jones / Hoyland
v
Tonks / Jones / Hughes

The difference there is marginal at best and neither trio is particularly palatable compared to what we can call on at full strength. But we are where we are. Need to keep the ball off the Aussies and turn it into a forwards battle where we actually should have an edge.


I think the difference is massive for reasons above. We do need to keep the ball off the Aussies entirely correct, we won't win by defending with the options available, but beyond that I think the defensive capabilities of those selected are poorer than Hoyland or Jackson, we're actively sacrificing our options in attack. I'd much much rather have Jackson or Hoyland ball in hand or positioned in attack than either.

Tldr in my opinion, for the two in Vissers' absence:

We're not selecting on playing form.
We're not developing long term options.
We're not developing short term alternative combinations (if he was concerned by the combinations he would have worked towards retaining the Italy ones).
We're not selecting players who can compete against the Aussies selected better than the alternatives.

Hopefully I'm wrong and they bring the goods. But I'm not confident in the selections on any of the grounds given.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Troll wrote:
I think the difference is massive for reasons above. We do need to keep the ball off the Aussies entirely correct, we won't win by defending with the options available, but beyond that I think the defensive capabilities of those selected are poorer than Hoyland or Jackson, we're actively sacrificing our options in attack. I'd much much rather have Jackson or Hoyland ball in hand or positioned in attack than either.

Tldr in my opinion, for the two in Vissers' absence:

We're not selecting on playing form.
We're not developing long term options.
We're not developing short term alternative combinations (if he was concerned by the combinations he would have worked towards retaining the Italy ones).
We're not selecting players who can compete against the Aussies selected better than the alternatives.

Hopefully I'm wrong and they bring the goods. But I'm not confident in the selections on any of the grounds given.

If Visser is injured, you're selecting from a pretty average pool; Hoyland, Jones, Hughes, Tonks, Jackson, Taylor

Hoyland vs Jones isn't a huge misstep imo, Jones is probably a better defender right now and a decent finisher.

Then it's Hughes vs Hoyland, Hoyland is a better player but seeing as he's tiny and so is Jones, I understand the selection of Hughes.

Taylor is probably our best outside back right now, so I can understand why Townsend wants to play him in his 'best' position where he'll be more involved, especially with Russell playing as he is.

So full-back is a straight shoot out between Tonks & Jackson, despite him playing championship rugby I'd probably still prefer Tonks because he's actually a full-back.

I've always thought Horne had the tools to do a shift at full-back but don't think I've ever seen him play there.

My biggest concern is the lack of bulk in the back-row, we may struggle to get on the front-foot (again).

Fu©king excited about this one


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Horne had a horror show for Glasgow at 15 and got hooked. While he could cover there he isn't a starter without some practice at a lower level.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:39 pm 
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frillage wrote:
Horne had a horror show for Glasgow at 15 and got hooked. While he could cover there he isn't a starter without some practice at a lower level.

Scarlets. Rain. Bleeding eyes.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:43 pm 
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spanks wrote:
Troll wrote:
I think the difference is massive for reasons above. We do need to keep the ball off the Aussies entirely correct, we won't win by defending with the options available, but beyond that I think the defensive capabilities of those selected are poorer than Hoyland or Jackson, we're actively sacrificing our options in attack. I'd much much rather have Jackson or Hoyland ball in hand or positioned in attack than either.

Tldr in my opinion, for the two in Vissers' absence:

We're not selecting on playing form.
We're not developing long term options.
We're not developing short term alternative combinations (if he was concerned by the combinations he would have worked towards retaining the Italy ones).
We're not selecting players who can compete against the Aussies selected better than the alternatives.

Hopefully I'm wrong and they bring the goods. But I'm not confident in the selections on any of the grounds given.

If Visser is injured, you're selecting from a pretty average pool; Hoyland, Jones, Hughes, Tonks, Jackson, Taylor

Hoyland vs Jones isn't a huge misstep imo, Jones is probably a better defender right now and a decent finisher.

Then it's Hughes vs Hoyland, Hoyland is a better player but seeing as he's tiny and so is Jones, I understand the selection of Hughes.

Taylor is probably our best outside back right now, so I can understand why Townsend wants to play him in his 'best' position where he'll be more involved, especially with Russell playing as he is.

So full-back is a straight shoot out between Tonks & Jackson, despite him playing championship rugby I'd probably still prefer Tonks because he's actually a full-back.

I've always thought Horne had the tools to do a shift at full-back but don't think I've ever seen him play there.

My biggest concern is the lack of bulk in the back-row, we may struggle to get on the front-foot (again).

Fu©king excited about this one


FFS. Hoyland is 5'10". Jones is 5'11". There may be a trend for all international wingers to be 6'4", but neither of them is tiny by any stretch of the imagination. Shane Williams is 5'7".

One of the saddest things about professionalism is that it has led to giants in virtually every position on every team. You do get the odd SH who is average height (Laidlaw is 5' 9.5") but that's about it. One of the best things about rugby was that there was a position suited to almost any body shape.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Anyone know if Edinburgh Airport has sky sports in a bar?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:39 pm 
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That's a negative I'm afraid as far as I know. I think they don't show football at airports in case of aggressive behaviour so without that sky is prohibitively expensive


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Cheers


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:52 pm 
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It might all be mind games but if Gatland is planning to split his squad there are certain positions he needs to cover and there are 2 national squads nearby. I've taken a quick run through the main contenders from Scotland and Wales:

http://wp.me/p68WtH-6pe


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Doc Rob wrote:
FFS. Hoyland is 5'10". Jones is 5'11". There may be a trend for all international wingers to be 6'4", but neither of them is tiny by any stretch of the imagination. Shane Williams is 5'7".

One of the saddest things about professionalism is that it has led to giants in virtually every position on every team. You do get the odd SH who is average height (Laidlaw is 5' 9.5") but that's about it. One of the best things about rugby was that there was a position suited to almost any body shape.

Not saying there's no place for wingers under 6ft but the Australian wingers are 6'2 & 6'5, so I imagine that played some part in Townsend's decision.

I'm really excited about Darcy Graham but he's a veritable midget at 5'8.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:11 am 
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Great result. Apparently we'll be up to 4th in the world rankings with a win over Fiji next week.

Isn't about time we got proper Southern Hemisphere tours in the calendar now?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:14 am 
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Congrats lads :thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:16 am 
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I think I'd rather that Scots didn't get called up to Lions now, would rather have them playing for us next week.

Suggestion is that Dell and Russell could be called up.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:18 am 
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zt1903 wrote:
I think I'd rather that Scots didn't get called up to Lions now, would rather have them playing for us next week.

Suggestion is that Dell and Russell could be called up.


Who've Scotland got next week?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:19 am 
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swc wrote:
zt1903 wrote:
I think I'd rather that Scots didn't get called up to Lions now, would rather have them playing for us next week.

Suggestion is that Dell and Russell could be called up.


Who've Scotland got next week?


Fiji.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:20 am 
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zt1903 wrote:
Great result. Apparently we'll be up to 4th in the world rankings with a win over Fiji next week.

Isn't about time we got proper Southern Hemisphere tours in the calendar now?


What a result. :o

I fear they have locked in the new calendar until 2032 a few months ago. What does your Future Tours Programme look like?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:22 am 
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Tim. wrote:
zt1903 wrote:
Great result. Apparently we'll be up to 4th in the world rankings with a win over Fiji next week.

Isn't about time we got proper Southern Hemisphere tours in the calendar now?


What a result. :o

I fear they have locked in the new calendar until 2032 a few months ago. What does your Future Tours Programme look like?

I recall reading that we were back in the tour circuit schedule with test series in Aus, SA and even a tour to NZ


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