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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:26 pm 
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I reckon that game today will be the making of Scotland.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:40 pm 
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I like haggis wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
Just to be controversial, how about Laidlaw at 10 to start the game? He's played there for Scotland before, will bring structure and he can help Price at 9 whilst not losing Price's running threat. Plus it gives Russell the kick up the arse he needs after that game.

So not that controversial.
I honestly don't think the crowd thought Scotland were going to win till Beauxis knocked on. Why that should trigger it I don't know, but there was a palpable change in the atmosphere at that point.
I've re-watched on TV, and Russell looked even more feckless live. Not just that he did things wrong, but he did not seem to care. I know we don't want someone who makes mistakes and that affects them negatively, but they should at least look like they care and will try and rectify things.

Imagine the England forwards and Ben Te'o running at Laidlaw down the 10 channel... it would be worse than last year!

Russell does care. It's his way of dealing with things - you don't get to be as good as he is if you don't care.

Does he need a rocket? Yes. And Hogg needs to kick to touch because Russell is missing one a week which is absolutely not acceptable and he does it even when he's good. I can't believe Toonie hasn't changed this yet. It's v bad coaching.

But he's a very good player, just having a ropey patch. But to beat England we need him doing the outrageous otherwise we don't have a chance. We can't go toe to toe with their pack and Laidlaw isn't a 10 let alone one near good enough to get the backline going. England will win anyway because they are much better than us so the only chance we have is Russell chucking it about with gay abandon and it goes to hand and we score tries.

You do realise that Laidlaw was playing 10 for Edinburgh when they got the the Heineken Cup semi and for several seasons each side? And that he played there a couple of seasons for Scotland? He is well used to dealing with big players running at him and running a backline effectively.

I have never bought into the criticism of Laidlaw, he has his strengths and weaknesses like any player but he churns out consistent performances all the time. Russell is skillful and talented, but frankly it is not a case of he is just playing badly, rather he seems to have come to believe his own hype, and he is not as good as he thinks he is. Carter was a great player not because he did flashy things all the time, but because he did basic things wonderfully well time, after time, after time. Then he'd throw in a bit of sublime skill. Russell goes for the 'hail mary' far too often and neglects the basics. Right now, there is an arrogance to his play that is not justified by what he has consistently delivered. He's not learning from his mistakes, and that makes him a luxury Scotland can't afford.

To blame coaching for Russell missing touch so often is frankly absurd. An international fly half should be able to sort out his kicking so he hits touch all the time. It's not hard. Frankly, that he misses consistently speaks to the arrogance I was talking about, because he is not learning from his mistakes and overestimates his abilities.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:20 am 
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And Hogg needs to kick to touch because Russell is missing one a week which is absolutely not acceptable and he does it even when he's good.

This. Definitely this.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:08 am 
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Just finished watching the game after getting in from work.

TBH, I was pleasantly surprised. We absolutely had to win today - everyone knew it. A lot of flak was thrown our way after we didn’t perform last week. If we had lost at home against an off-colour France it would have been a whole lot worse. But despite a terrible start to the game, we found a way to win it, and that was by far the most important thing. We showed that we can still close out a tight game, at least we can at home.

Laidlaw played a blinder. I hold my hands up here - I didn’t want him to start. He didn’t crab once today though - his service was quick and accurate. Another player who had a big game was Gilchrist. I said last week I had never seen him do anything noteworthy for Scotland, but I have now.

I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though. As has been pointed out, Hogg’s touch kicking is good and he should be taking the kicks instead. It was Russell whose pass released Maitland for our first try. Basically, I don’t think he needs dropped, just relieved of kicking duties.

England will beat us - I think that is nailed on. Our defence is iffy, we are missing some important players up front, and a lot of our go-to guys over the last year (Barclay, Price, Russell, Jonny Gray) seem worryingly off form. I hope we have a proper go at them though. When we start running at teams, as we did at times today, we really can be fantastic to watch. The trouble is that we don’t have a whole lot of other options if that doesn’t work.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:20 am 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
Just to be controversial, how about Laidlaw at 10 to start the game? He's played there for Scotland before, will bring structure and he can help Price at 9 whilst not losing Price's running threat. Plus it gives Russell the kick up the arse he needs after that game.

So not that controversial.
I honestly don't think the crowd thought Scotland were going to win till Beauxis knocked on. Why that should trigger it I don't know, but there was a palpable change in the atmosphere at that point.
I've re-watched on TV, and Russell looked even more feckless live. Not just that he did things wrong, but he did not seem to care. I know we don't want someone who makes mistakes and that affects them negatively, but they should at least look like they care and will try and rectify things.

Imagine the England forwards and Ben Te'o running at Laidlaw down the 10 channel... it would be worse than last year!

Russell does care. It's his way of dealing with things - you don't get to be as good as he is if you don't care.

Does he need a rocket? Yes. And Hogg needs to kick to touch because Russell is missing one a week which is absolutely not acceptable and he does it even when he's good. I can't believe Toonie hasn't changed this yet. It's v bad coaching.

But he's a very good player, just having a ropey patch. But to beat England we need him doing the outrageous otherwise we don't have a chance. We can't go toe to toe with their pack and Laidlaw isn't a 10 let alone one near good enough to get the backline going. England will win anyway because they are much better than us so the only chance we have is Russell chucking it about with gay abandon and it goes to hand and we score tries.

You do realise that Laidlaw was playing 10 for Edinburgh when they got the the Heineken Cup semi and for several seasons each side? And that he played there a couple of seasons for Scotland? He is well used to dealing with big players running at him and running a backline effectively.

I have never bought into the criticism of Laidlaw, he has his strengths and weaknesses like any player but he churns out consistent performances all the time. Russell is skillful and talented, but frankly it is not a case of he is just playing badly, rather he seems to have come to believe his own hype, and he is not as good as he thinks he is. Carter was a great player not because he did flashy things all the time, but because he did basic things wonderfully well time, after time, after time. Then he'd throw in a bit of sublime skill. Russell goes for the 'hail mary' far too often and neglects the basics. Right now, there is an arrogance to his play that is not justified by what he has consistently delivered. He's not learning from his mistakes, and that makes him a luxury Scotland can't afford.

To blame coaching for Russell missing touch so often is frankly absurd. An international fly half should be able to sort out his kicking so he hits touch all the time. It's not hard. Frankly, that he misses consistently speaks to the arrogance I was talking about, because he is not learning from his mistakes and overestimates his abilities.


He played 10 for Edinburgh years ago and Scotland got destroyed with big runners going at him. Yeah I remember.

A total fluke cup run doesn't mean thats the answer 7/8 years later.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:21 am 
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Laidlaw was brought back in to shore up 9. That is negated by moving him 10 where he is weaker.

I am not starting a part time 10 v England at home. Let Hogg kick for touch.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:30 am 
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I don't think England are nailed on at all tbh, the only team we have lost at home to in the last 12 months is the AB's, prior to that was the very narrow loss to the aussies so we are starting to have an enviable home record. Yes we are still ropey away but the first step for us has to be making Murrayfield a bastard for other teams to come to which we are doing.

Now England are the 2nd best in the world but they are certainly beatable at home we just need Russell to sort his shit out and for us to get our defence tightened right up which even when we have been pish was one of the stalwarts of our game we just need to get that nailed down again which i am sure will be the main focus for toonie over the next 2 weeks. What England do have is a stingy defence so it could well come down to a shoot out with the place kickers if do tighten up.

Sneak a win against England, beat Italy away and it's been an ok tournament for us with 3 wins, yes we would have loved the win in Cardiff but Wales have surprised in that they are much better than their AI form suggested.

I wouldnt bench Russell as i think we need him, as Doc said it was his kicking that was woeful, ball in hand he was ok. I would excuse him for the missed tackle on Teddy as well, as it was a cracking step and acceleration from Teddy that would have beaten most, as frustrating as it was to watch.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 am 
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I would keep Russell in the team but take the kicking duties away from him, Hogg is a far better kicker from hand. However apart from the missed tackle that led to Thomas first try Russell did a lot of good work with ball in hand. However he seems to have lost his confidence a little and where a few months ago he would have a go and beat a few defenders and off load he now plays it safe and passed the ball on. He is at his most dangerous when he takes the ball right up to the line and draws defenders. Perhaps he was told to keep it simple? We need him back to his best for next week.

I would dump Maitland, ok he took his try well and is good at holding his depth and finishing from 5 metres but he did feck all otherwise. We made a point of watching him chase every restart and all he did was sprint up, frisk the guy if he even got hands on him and then jogged back. Not once did he put guy to ground. He looks like he dodges tackles rather than going looking for them. Both tries came down his wing and both times he was posted missing. Russell missed his tackle on Thomas because he had to cover out wide for Maitland who got drawn inside to tackle their 13 rather than maintaining the drift defence and staying on his man. Not sure where he was for the 2nd try but can be seen jogging back instead of breaking his neck in case of a dodgy bounce. I would start Lee Jones instead of him.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:50 am 
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My biggest concern, and it has been for a while if the defensive structures and defence in general.

Missing 20% of tackles is very poor.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:24 am 
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Big D wrote:
My biggest concern, and it has been for a while if the defensive structures and defence in general.

Missing 20% of tackles is very poor.


It is. It’s really very odd. We used to struggle to score tries, but we had no problems securing good ball and we defended like demons. Now we can run the ball but we struggle in the set piece and can’t defend.

If we could have our forwards from 5-10 years ago and today’s backs, we would be some team.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:33 am 
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That was better.

The most pleasing thing was that most of the guys that had a poor game last week stepped up. The front row (including subs) did very well. Contrary to a few I thought Gray had one of his better games, he was looking to get a bit of go forward and was a bit more agressive - Gilchrist had an excellent match.

Back row is an odd one, this is usually a strength for us and we have enough decent players but we just don't seem to be able to find a balance. I thought they all did OK yesterday but I'd probably let Denton off the leash from the start against England and see what he can do.

Laidlaw, ahhhh Laidlaw. Superb. As you know I have taken exception to the slagging he gets and was just really pleased for him yesterday. We will miss him massively when he is gone, one of our greats and I loved his post match comments yesterday "great to play in front of our people"

Thought both centres did well, Jones is class but does seem to go missing a bot when it gets tough but he was great yesterday and Horne did a very decent job.

I'd agree with some of the comments above about Maitland, never been very impressed by him and he goes missing for most of most matches, would really like to be bold and get Kinghorn involved. Hogg was gutsy and class.

And Finn. Missing all these penalty touches is crazy, but easily solved, give it to Hogg. His tactical kicking yesterday was dreadful as well though. I actually thought Toonie made a very brave call yesterday hauling him off at that stage, but hopefully it gives him a kick up the arse and is a genius bit of management. I'm at a loss with what to do with him, there is no one else to come in realistically. I guess we start him and if he can't control his kicking off he comes again.

Anyway after week 2 we are not as good as some thought we were, but we are not as shite as last week - I think thats pretty much where us posters thought we were.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:36 am 
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I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 am 
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I like haggis wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
Just to be controversial, how about Laidlaw at 10 to start the game? He's played there for Scotland before, will bring structure and he can help Price at 9 whilst not losing Price's running threat. Plus it gives Russell the kick up the arse he needs after that game.

So not that controversial.
I honestly don't think the crowd thought Scotland were going to win till Beauxis knocked on. Why that should trigger it I don't know, but there was a palpable change in the atmosphere at that point.
I've re-watched on TV, and Russell looked even more feckless live. Not just that he did things wrong, but he did not seem to care. I know we don't want someone who makes mistakes and that affects them negatively, but they should at least look like they care and will try and rectify things.

Imagine the England forwards and Ben Te'o running at Laidlaw down the 10 channel... it would be worse than last year!

Russell does care. It's his way of dealing with things - you don't get to be as good as he is if you don't care.

Does he need a rocket? Yes. And Hogg needs to kick to touch because Russell is missing one a week which is absolutely not acceptable and he does it even when he's good. I can't believe Toonie hasn't changed this yet. It's v bad coaching.

But he's a very good player, just having a ropey patch. But to beat England we need him doing the outrageous otherwise we don't have a chance. We can't go toe to toe with their pack and Laidlaw isn't a 10 let alone one near good enough to get the backline going. England will win anyway because they are much better than us so the only chance we have is Russell chucking it about with gay abandon and it goes to hand and we score tries.

You do realise that Laidlaw was playing 10 for Edinburgh when they got the the Heineken Cup semi and for several seasons each side? And that he played there a couple of seasons for Scotland? He is well used to dealing with big players running at him and running a backline effectively.

I have never bought into the criticism of Laidlaw, he has his strengths and weaknesses like any player but he churns out consistent performances all the time. Russell is skillful and talented, but frankly it is not a case of he is just playing badly, rather he seems to have come to believe his own hype, and he is not as good as he thinks he is. Carter was a great player not because he did flashy things all the time, but because he did basic things wonderfully well time, after time, after time. Then he'd throw in a bit of sublime skill. Russell goes for the 'hail mary' far too often and neglects the basics. Right now, there is an arrogance to his play that is not justified by what he has consistently delivered. He's not learning from his mistakes, and that makes him a luxury Scotland can't afford.

To blame coaching for Russell missing touch so often is frankly absurd. An international fly half should be able to sort out his kicking so he hits touch all the time. It's not hard. Frankly, that he misses consistently speaks to the arrogance I was talking about, because he is not learning from his mistakes and overestimates his abilities.


He played 10 for Edinburgh years ago and Scotland got destroyed with big runners going at him. Yeah I remember.

A total fluke cup run doesn't mean thats the answer 7/8 years later.


This. He was marked improvement from Parks but it was a sign of our desperation that we had him as first choice 10. It has to be Russell, we just need him to find the form he was showing earlier this season, I back him to do that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 am 
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slick wrote:
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I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:51 am 
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Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


But that's a huge part of being a 10, controlling the game, relieving pressure. It wasn't just his kicks for touch, it was his tactical kicking which was so poor andput us under pressure. He is brilliant with the ball but an international 10 has so many more responsibilities.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 am 
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slick wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


But that's a huge part of being a 10, controlling the game, relieving pressure. It wasn't just his kicks for touch, it was his tactical kicking which was so poor andput us under pressure. He is brilliant with the ball but an international 10 has so many more responsibilities.


I’m not disagreeing with you. IIRC though, most of his missed kicks were from penalties when there was no pressure. Give Hogg the ball for those (or just tell Russell not to over-reach - even I could find touch if you weren’t looking for too much distance!)

If we did want to drop Russell (and I do recognise that this might well be good for him) then really the only option is to start Horne at 10. Which we could do, but I think he looks exposed there and it isn’t really fair on him (he had a solid game at 12 yesterday).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 am 
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Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


Problem being he was woeful for 50% of what is asked of him, the reverse of Parks. Parks was decent with the boot but piss poor at distributing and we all lambasted him for being crap, Russell deserves teh same abuse for his current form.

In saying this I would stick with him for the next 2 games as we dont have anyone else and if he can get his mojo back he can be brilliant as he has shown in the past he can outplay the mighty Carter when the mood strikes him.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:01 am 
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I thought he'd tempered his game a bit, and that helped us to hold on to the ball for longer.

But yes, no excuse for the missed kicks, and the kicking from hand was a lottery.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:09 am 
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By the way - I happened to think about this game earlier. If we ever forget how bad things got or doubt how far we have come, remember we once gifted three tries to Italy in the first 6 minutes, all directly from mistakes, and went down by 20 points, at home.

Last week was bad, Twickenham last year was worse, but nothing comes close to this. Italy had never managed an away win in the 6N.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 389855.stm


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:12 am 
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Lorthern Nights wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


Problem being he was woeful for 50% of what is asked of him, the reverse of Parks. Parks was decent with the boot but piss poor at distributing and we all lambasted him for being crap, Russell deserves teh same abuse for his current form.

In saying this I would stick with him for the next 2 games as we dont have anyone else and if he can get his mojo back he can be brilliant as he has shown in the past he can outplay the mighty Carter when the mood strikes him.


Nonsense. Russell has loads more good/great/world class performances in the bank than Parks ever had who was, at his best, barely passable at international level. Get Russell to moderate the distance he is going for when taking penalty kicks and there is a more than decent chance that he will be back to his best very soon.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:12 am 
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Lorthern Nights wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


Problem being he was woeful for 50% of what is asked of him, the reverse of Parks. Parks was decent with the boot but piss poor at distributing and we all lambasted him for being crap, Russell deserves teh same abuse for his current form.

In saying this I would stick with him for the next 2 games as we dont have anyone else and if he can get his mojo back he can be brilliant as he has shown in the past he can outplay the mighty Carter when the mood strikes him.


Parks couldn’t distribute at all, but he also shat it from tackling and his much-vaunted kicking game was only good in one match in three for Scotland. Yes, when it was good we pulled off the odd impressive win. But it was the exception, not the rule.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:19 am 
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Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


But that's a huge part of being a 10, controlling the game, relieving pressure. It wasn't just his kicks for touch, it was his tactical kicking which was so poor andput us under pressure. He is brilliant with the ball but an international 10 has so many more responsibilities.


I’m not disagreeing with you. IIRC though, most of his missed kicks were from penalties when there was no pressure. Give Hogg the ball for those (or just tell Russell not to over-reach - even I could find touch if you weren’t looking for too much distance!)

If we did want to drop Russell (and I do recognise that this might well be good for him) then really the only option is to start Horne at 10. Which we could do, but I think he looks exposed there and it isn’t really fair on him (he had a solid game at 12 yesterday).


I'm not really talking about his missed touch kicks, as I said, thats easy to solve, don't let him take the kicks. It was his tactical kicking yesterday that was really terrible, there was one point where he just hoofed the ball straight to a frenchie 3 times in a row. He is meant to control the game, not put us under pressure.

I don't think we can drop him but he needs a good talking too and to be hauled off again if he doesn't learn.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:20 am 
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Doc Rob wrote:
Lorthern Nights wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


Problem being he was woeful for 50% of what is asked of him, the reverse of Parks. Parks was decent with the boot but piss poor at distributing and we all lambasted him for being crap, Russell deserves teh same abuse for his current form.

In saying this I would stick with him for the next 2 games as we dont have anyone else and if he can get his mojo back he can be brilliant as he has shown in the past he can outplay the mighty Carter when the mood strikes him.


Parks couldn’t distribute at all, but he also shat it from tackling and his much-vaunted kicking game was only good in one match in three for Scotland. Yes, when it was good we pulled off the odd impressive win. But it was the exception, not the rule.


He also had much weaker players around him than Russell benefits from. I was no fan of Parks but Russell needs a kick up the arse, Toonie did it with Hogg when at Glasgow by dropping him from key games, wouldn't be surprised if he does the same to Russell, i would stick with Russell but i can see Toonie dropping him especially if Dunbar is fit, could well see Horne in at 10 if he is


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:22 am 
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Wylie Coyote wrote:
Lorthern Nights wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought Russell played reasonably well today with ball in hand. Didn’t make any errors I noticed apart from the missed tackle on Thomas right at the start. His touch kicking was abysmal though


Doc Rob, he was terrible. OK, not that bad with ball in hand, but his tactical kicking was woeful, he handed the ball back to them on numerous occasions.

Edinburgh01 comments above re Carter are spot on


That’s my entire point though - his kicking was woeful, but otherwise he didn’t have a bad game. After the comments on here I expected a performance like that one when Italy decided to field a No 8 at 9. What I actually saw was a guy who had a decent game with the ball but fell off an early tackle and couldn’t find touch all game.


Problem being he was woeful for 50% of what is asked of him, the reverse of Parks. Parks was decent with the boot but piss poor at distributing and we all lambasted him for being crap, Russell deserves teh same abuse for his current form.

In saying this I would stick with him for the next 2 games as we dont have anyone else and if he can get his mojo back he can be brilliant as he has shown in the past he can outplay the mighty Carter when the mood strikes him.


Nonsense. Russell has loads more good/great/world class performances in the bank than Parks ever had who was, at his best, barely passable at international level. Get Russell to moderate the distance he is going for when taking penalty kicks and there is a more than decent chance that he will be back to his best very soon.


Parks had the odd good game where we snuck a win (can't believe i'm in the position of defending Dan Parks), Russell's kicking was as bad as Parks distribution so he needs a right hoof up the arse


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:31 am 
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Don't think Russell will be dropped. As said by others I agree that only chance we have v England is if Russell plays and plays well. Good to see him get subbed yesterday, think that may have the effect this week of putting the wind up him with Laidlaw/Horne waiting in the wings.

Really pleased to see Gilchrist have a good game yesterday. He carried hard, found gaps and tackled well, plus the line out generally showed up much better than v Wales.

Can't help but agree on Maitland flattering to decieve, but think he's a better bet than Jones at this moment. Wing is really not a position of strength at the moment with Seymour also flatlining. Fairly anonymous yesterday again.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:31 am 
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Russell's kicking can be very good though (aside from to touch) whereas Parks was never a great distributor.

The reality is our wagon is hitched to Russell and will be for a while (Hastings isn't up to much right now). So we have to take the bad days with the good days.

Fortunately the good outnumbers the bad.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Big D wrote:
Laidlaw was brought back in to shore up 9. That is negated by moving him 10 where he is weaker.

I am not starting a part time 10 v England at home. Let Hogg kick for touch.

Ok Gregor.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Doc Rob wrote:
Big D wrote:
My biggest concern, and it has been for a while if the defensive structures and defence in general.

Missing 20% of tackles is very poor.


It is. It’s really very odd. We used to struggle to score tries, but we had no problems securing good ball and we defended like demons. Now we can run the ball but we struggle in the set piece and can’t defend.

If we could have our forwards from 5-10 years ago and today’s backs, we would be some team.


We haven't been consistent in defence under Taylor IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Hopefully Dunbar will be back for the England game - I feel he really makes a massive difference to us. As has often been said, he is a great defensive leader, but he also plays like an auxiliary flanker usually securing at least one good turnover per game and hitting plenty of rucks. In much the same way, as much as Berghan was good yesterday, Fagerson makes a big difference to the team. Having those extra turnover threats makes the opposition commit more to the breakdown, which in turn opens more space for our backs.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Alba wrote:
Hopefully Dunbar will be back for the England game - I feel he really makes a massive difference to us. As has often been said, he is a great defensive leader, but he also plays like an auxiliary flanker usually securing at least one good turnover per game and hitting plenty of rucks. In much the same way, as much as Berghan was good yesterday, Fagerson makes a big difference to the team. Having those extra turnover threats makes the opposition commit more to the breakdown, which in turn opens more space for our backs.

England tore Dunbar to shreds last year by playing right through his channel time and again. OK..A lot of that was the system Scotland played with so not all Dunbar's fault, and don't disagree that he makes a difference compared to the options but Jones et all won't be fazed, rather they'll fancy doing the same again especially with Ford and Farrell linking up exceedingly well at the moment. He is good over the ball though and will hit it up through the middle which Horne will struggle to do... so yes, in short, if he's fit he should play.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:25 pm 
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I'd start Horne.

Don't think Dunbar is that good. Passing is average at best, no kicking game whatsoever, defence is overstated, isn't a threat ball in hand anymore.

Work at the breakdown is excellent but Horne allows us to play a more expansive game.

Think Dunbar will start but don't think he's going to make a difference.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:35 pm 
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http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/18/0 ... departures

Cockerill wields the axe at Embra. Meatball, SHC, CdP and Tovey all out at the end of the season. Meatball was pretty much a given, but a bit of a reality check for CdP and SHC.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:42 pm 
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I'd rather see Taylor in at 12 but is there any chance of that?

I'd also love to see Kinghorn come off the bench, but that seems unlikely unless we're well behind - Toonie showed his conservative side in the limited use of replacements on Sunday.

Good news for many here - CdP, SHC, Weir and Tovey are being released by Edinburgh, supposedly as RC tries to rebalance squad to have fewer forwards and more backs. Given most of the above arw backs, hopefully he'll bring in more quality!

Talking of which, George Horne has signed for another year at Glasgow. Shame it's not more!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:47 pm 
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charltom wrote:
I'd rather see Taylor in at 12 but is there any chance of that?

I'd also love to see Kinghorn come off the bench, but that seems unlikely unless we're well behind - Toonie showed his conservative side in the limited use of replacements on Sunday.

Good news for many here - CdP, SHC, Weir and Tovey are being released by Edinburgh, supposedly as RC tries to rebalance squad to have fewer forwards and more backs. Given most of the above arw backs, hopefully he'll bring in more quality!

Talking of which, George Horne has signed for another year at Glasgow. Shame it's not more!


Slightly concerned as to who he plans to replace them with, given that 3 of the 4 are Scottish. If not currently playing.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Doc Rob wrote:
charltom wrote:
I'd rather see Taylor in at 12 but is there any chance of that?

I'd also love to see Kinghorn come off the bench, but that seems unlikely unless we're well behind - Toonie showed his conservative side in the limited use of replacements on Sunday.

Good news for many here - CdP, SHC, Weir and Tovey are being released by Edinburgh, supposedly as RC tries to rebalance squad to have fewer forwards and more backs. Given most of the above arw backs, hopefully he'll bring in more quality!

Talking of which, George Horne has signed for another year at Glasgow. Shame it's not more!


Slightly concerned as to who he plans to replace them with, given that 3 of the 4 are Scottish. If not currently playing.


Barclay and Crosbie (with his pro deal) will/have come into the back row and Mata has been very effective.

I think those leaving are somewhat understandable.

The writing was on the wall for the 10s as soon as the signings were announced.

SHC hasn't got his form of a few years ago back and if he was asking for a bigger deal as reported then it's right to say no.

CdP leaving is a shame but mostly for the fact the I jury robbed him of his peak in an Edinburgh shirt.

No mention of Burleigh and Hardie yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:02 am 
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Big D wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
charltom wrote:
I'd rather see Taylor in at 12 but is there any chance of that?

I'd also love to see Kinghorn come off the bench, but that seems unlikely unless we're well behind - Toonie showed his conservative side in the limited use of replacements on Sunday.

Good news for many here - CdP, SHC, Weir and Tovey are being released by Edinburgh, supposedly as RC tries to rebalance squad to have fewer forwards and more backs. Given most of the above arw backs, hopefully he'll bring in more quality!

Talking of which, George Horne has signed for another year at Glasgow. Shame it's not more!


Slightly concerned as to who he plans to replace them with, given that 3 of the 4 are Scottish. If not currently playing.


Barclay and Crosbie (with his pro deal) will/have come into the back row and Mata has been very effective.

I think those leaving are somewhat understandable.

The writing was on the wall for the 10s as soon as the signings were announced.

SHC hasn't got his form of a few years ago back and if he was asking for a bigger deal as reported then it's right to say no.

CdP leaving is a shame but mostly for the fact the I jury robbed him of his peak in an Edinburgh shirt.

No mention of Burleigh and Hardie yet.


Weir's replacement was announced a while ago, it's a kiwi called Simon Hickey, currently at Bordeaux. There's been no confirmation yet that he is SQ, so presumably he is not. He'll be in after the three year residency moves to five years, so I can't imagine that is a motivation. That will leave the FHs as Van der Walt, Hickey, McLelland (the ex rugby league youngster, currently playing with the Scottish U20s) then Baggot I think. The first two picks being non-SQ is concerning as you point out.

Given CdP and Mata are keeping Bradbury out the team at present (assuming you think Bradbury is an 8 and not a 6), I suppose CdP leaving moves Bradbury up one place in the pecking order to regular starter again. Hopefully it also means that Ally Miller, who was so impressive for the U20s last year, can move up and take a squad place.

Equally, I suppose SHC leaving means Charlie Shiel will move up a place in the pecking order to squad member. I presume it is too much to hope that Vellacott has signed in his place? I wouldn't bet against a Scottish/SQ 9 coming in though - maybe Scott Steele? I'm not sure how much he has developed but he certainly looked half-decent a few years ago.

Matt Scott is strongly rumoured to be returning too, so that's one more Scottish back and he will form a tasty centre combination with Bennett.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Alba wrote:
Big D wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
charltom wrote:
I'd rather see Taylor in at 12 but is there any chance of that?

I'd also love to see Kinghorn come off the bench, but that seems unlikely unless we're well behind - Toonie showed his conservative side in the limited use of replacements on Sunday.

Good news for many here - CdP, SHC, Weir and Tovey are being released by Edinburgh, supposedly as RC tries to rebalance squad to have fewer forwards and more backs. Given most of the above arw backs, hopefully he'll bring in more quality!

Talking of which, George Horne has signed for another year at Glasgow. Shame it's not more!


Slightly concerned as to who he plans to replace them with, given that 3 of the 4 are Scottish. If not currently playing.


Barclay and Crosbie (with his pro deal) will/have come into the back row and Mata has been very effective.

I think those leaving are somewhat understandable.

The writing was on the wall for the 10s as soon as the signings were announced.

SHC hasn't got his form of a few years ago back and if he was asking for a bigger deal as reported then it's right to say no.

CdP leaving is a shame but mostly for the fact the I jury robbed him of his peak in an Edinburgh shirt.

No mention of Burleigh and Hardie yet.


Weir's replacement was announced a while ago, it's a kiwi called Simon Hickey, currently at Bordeaux. There's been no confirmation yet that he is SQ, so presumably he is not. He'll be in after the three year residency moves to five years, so I can't imagine that is a motivation. That will leave the FHs as Van der Walt, Hickey, McLelland (the ex rugby league youngster, currently playing with the Scottish U20s) then Baggot I think. The first two picks being non-SQ is concerning as you point out.

Given CdP and Mata are keeping Bradbury out the team at present (assuming you think Bradbury is an 8 and not a 6), I suppose CdP leaving moves Bradbury up one place in the pecking order to regular starter again. Hopefully it also means that Ally Miller, who was so impressive for the U20s last year, can move up and take a squad place.

Equally, I suppose SHC leaving means Charlie Shiel will move up a place in the pecking order to squad member. I presume it is too much to hope that Vellacott has signed in his place? I wouldn't bet against a Scottish/SQ 9 coming in though - maybe Scott Steele? I'm not sure how much he has developed but he certainly looked half-decent a few years ago.

Matt Scott is strongly rumoured to be returning too, so that's one more Scottish back and he will form a tasty centre combination with Bennett.

Christie maybe moving north from the Chiefs?

I’d take Weir back at the Weegies, if the price was right. Get him on a similar deal as what Thompson’s on and he’d do a job during the international windows.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Doc Rob wrote:
http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/18/02/12/news-cockerill-confirms-player-departures

Cockerill wields the axe at Embra. Meatball, SHC, CdP and Tovey all out at the end of the season. Meatball was pretty much a given, but a bit of a reality check for CdP and SHC.


The word from Mark Palmer was that SHC was offered a deal but they couldn't come to terms financially


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:48 pm 
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https://theoffsideline.com/cockerill-co ... tt-return/

Confirms comment about SHC and suggests that the replacement could be currently in NZ.

Quote:
“We put an offer on the table to Sammy but we couldn’t get to a point where we were both happy, so we move on and we look to build the squad,” said Cockerill.

In terms of coverage at scrum-half, Edinburgh still have Nathan Fowles [part of the Scotland Six Nations training squad this year] and Sean Kennedy on the books until at least the end of next season, while Currie Chieftains youngster Charlie Shiel is set to join the full-time staff next year, and the club is understood to have been in discussion with a potential recruit from New Zealand.


Suggestion (on ER board) is that it could be Finlay Christie

http://www.chiefs.co.nz/team/team/playe ... ++Christie


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm 
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zt1903 wrote:
https://theoffsideline.com/cockerill-confirms-departure-hidalgo-clyne-du-preez-weir-tovey-remains-coy-scott-return/

Confirms comment about SHC and suggests that the replacement could be currently in NZ.

Quote:
“We put an offer on the table to Sammy but we couldn’t get to a point where we were both happy, so we move on and we look to build the squad,” said Cockerill.

In terms of coverage at scrum-half, Edinburgh still have Nathan Fowles [part of the Scotland Six Nations training squad this year] and Sean Kennedy on the books until at least the end of next season, while Currie Chieftains youngster Charlie Shiel is set to join the full-time staff next year, and the club is understood to have been in discussion with a potential recruit from New Zealand.


Suggestion (on ER board) is that it could be Finlay Christie

http://www.chiefs.co.nz/team/team/playe ... ++Christie


Remember him against the Lions, he looked lively and could be an interesting one. Scotland qualified as well from what i remember.


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