Planet Rugby Forum

Also: only six props named who will presumably all travel to Japan. Congrats Mr. Bhatti, Dell, Reid, Nel, Berghan and Fagerson.

I've never been a fan but feel sorry for Duncan Weir. He has been very impressive controlling a Premiership team and we might need that control out there. Griegg seems a waste of a spot to me which he could have taken.

slick wrote:I've never been a fan but feel sorry for Duncan Weir. He has been very impressive controlling a Premiership team and we might need that control out there. Griegg seems a waste of a spot to me which he could have taken.

Agreed, he's done really well for Worcester. His playing style doesn't quite fit what Scotland try to do, and Hastings is in such form his place as back-up 10 is not up for discussion currently. Then there's Pete Horne who covers both 5/8th positions and is a good enough 10 to play there against Russia. The cards then all stack up against Weir...

clydecloggie wrote:Also: only six props named who will presumably all travel to Japan. Congrats Mr. Bhatti, Dell, Reid, Nel, Berghan and Fagerson.

Only 5 went last time.

I like haggis wrote:Very surprised Ritchie Gray isn't there, very surprised indeed.

That is the biggest surprise for me. As it stands the 4 second rows in the squad all know they are going unless another is called up.

Also agree Wilson will go. Although Bradbury was excellent v England so wouldn't be quick to have Wilson starting.

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:Also: only six props named who will presumably all travel to Japan. Congrats Mr. Bhatti, Dell, Reid, Nel, Berghan and Fagerson.

Only 5 went last time.

Yes, but one of them was Jon Welsh who is an LTH prop. This time there's no 1/3 hybrid and I can't believe the squad will only have 2 LH or TH props.

Also amazed that Richie Gray isn’t in there. Yes, he’s been out for ages, but then so have Thomson and Taylor. Surely he is in contention to start if fully fit?

Harsh on Weir indeed, and he gives us another option, but Finn is clearly first choice and Hastings second, and Phorne provides centre cover.

I reckon that if Thomson stands up to the summer schedule, Strauss is done.

Exactly what has Harris done to earn a spot ahead of Steyn?

clydecloggie wrote:

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:Also: only six props named who will presumably all travel to Japan. Congrats Mr. Bhatti, Dell, Reid, Nel, Berghan and Fagerson.

Only 5 went last time.

Yes, but one of them was Jon Welsh who is an LTH prop. This time there's no 1/3 hybrid and I can't believe the squad will only have 2 LH or TH props.

That is true but only 2 THPs were used throughout and every coaching staff is going to be faced with a tough choice of squad composition. At the last world cup, from a quick look, a high percentage of sides, if not all went with 5 props, so perhaps wrongly assumed they will go with 5.

Assuming at "worst" a 17/14 split, 6 props, 3 hookers and 4 second rows leaves only 4 spots for back row. Even with Skinner in the squad I think they'll want 5 specialist back rows.

I am a wee bit surprised there wasn't another prop each side in the squad to cover injuries in the squad. 4 warm ups is a fair number without someone picking up an injury.

As has been mentioned, it seems that one of the post season additional spots is specifically for Ritchie if he manages to not injure himself in the last couple of games. I read at the weekend that there have been glimpses of form but hasn't set the world on fire so far, which is reasonable.

slick wrote:As has been mentioned, it seems that one of the post season additional spots is specifically for Ritchie if he manages to not injure himself in the last couple of games. I read at the weekend that there have been glimpses of form but hasn't set the world on fire so far, which is reasonable.

Thinking about it could be Cummings Vs Gray? Toonie hasn't decided who is in the better form so wants to see them in the big, big games.

Also Alex Allan/D'Arcy Rae as 6 props is a little light potentially.

Triple...

Double..

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:Also: only six props named who will presumably all travel to Japan. Congrats Mr. Bhatti, Dell, Reid, Nel, Berghan and Fagerson.

Only 5 went last time.

Yes, but one of them was Jon Welsh who is an LTH prop. This time there's no 1/3 hybrid and I can't believe the squad will only have 2 LH or TH props.

That is true but only 2 THPs were used throughout and every coaching staff is going to be faced with a tough choice of squad composition. At the last world cup, from a quick look, a high percentage of sides, if not all went with 5 props, so perhaps wrongly assumed they will go with 5.

Assuming at "worst" a 17/14 split, 6 props, 3 hookers and 4 second rows leaves only 4 spots for back row. Even with Skinner in the squad I think they'll want 5 specialist back rows.

I am a wee bit surprised there wasn't another prop each side in the squad to cover injuries in the squad. 4 warm ups is a fair number without someone picking up an injury.

Really? I stand corrected. I would assume then that it's more likely they will travel with 3 THs as it is seen as the more important and tougher position. The Cowkiller to miss out? Would leave 3 locks + Skinner + 5 BRs.

Could also be an 18/13 split depending on how many back 3 players they're taking - 5 might be seen as a luxury, especially with Huw Jones and possibly Duncan Taylor or Chris Harris in the squad who have back 3 experience. So trimming it to 4 might open up the 6th prop slot. Burgher guys: you can start your civil war on who out of Darcy or Blair stays behind.

clydecloggie wrote: Burgher guys: you can start your civil war on who out of Darcy or Blair stays behind.

Well Darcy owns one of the starting jerseys so not him

Do you know something, between us, I reckon we are going to smash this tournament. Semi's at least.

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote: Burgher guys: you can start your civil war on who out of Darcy or Blair stays behind.

Well Darcy owns one of the starting jerseys so not him

Only because Kinghorn got injured...wouldn't have had a look in otherwise

I like haggis wrote:

slick wrote:As has been mentioned, it seems that one of the post season additional spots is specifically for Ritchie if he manages to not injure himself in the last couple of games. I read at the weekend that there have been glimpses of form but hasn't set the world on fire so far, which is reasonable.

Thinking about it could be Cummings Vs Gray? Toonie hasn't decided who is in the better form so wants to see them in the big, big games.

Also Alex Allan/D'Arcy Rae as 6 props is a little light potentially.

If Townsend really is waiting to see which one plays better just call both up. The tournament is 5 months away and he is giving players a 3 week break before meeting up in June.

slick wrote:I've never been a fan but feel sorry for Duncan Weir. He has been very impressive controlling a Premiership team and we might need that control out there. Griegg seems a waste of a spot to me which he could have taken.

I think a big mistake, while he isn’t going to be on plane he must be first replacement for a fly half injury ( can’t see a centre being brought in and Horne becoming seconf 10 on tour) so he really should be training with and learning the play book.

Either that or he will become our Stephen Donald when we lift the cup.

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote: Burgher guys: you can start your civil war on who out of Darcy or Blair stays behind.

Well Darcy owns one of the starting jerseys so not him

Ha ha - obviously it’ll be McGuigan who misses out if that happens. But FFS, drop Harris!

In other news, Pyrgos?? He’s played a large part in the failure of Edinburgh’s season, and there are 4 9s in the squad, which is clearly one too many.

Big D wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

slick wrote:As has been mentioned, it seems that one of the post season additional spots is specifically for Ritchie if he manages to not injure himself in the last couple of games. I read at the weekend that there have been glimpses of form but hasn't set the world on fire so far, which is reasonable.

Thinking about it could be Cummings Vs Gray? Toonie hasn't decided who is in the better form so wants to see them in the big, big games.

Also Alex Allan/D'Arcy Rae as 6 props is a little light potentially.

If Townsend really is waiting to see which one plays better just call both up. The tournament is 5 months away and he is giving players a 3 week break before meeting up in June.

Training and some warm up games which are never the highest intensity is no match for competitive knock out rugby though. I do understand his logic.

slick wrote:Do you know something, between us, I reckon we are going to smash this tournament. Semi's at least.

I really hope so. So much comes down to the Ireland game though. Lose that and we probably run into NZ in the QF. We may be due a result against them, but I can’t see us getting it in a knockout game in the RWC, even with my most optimistic hat on. Beat Ireland (also quite an ask) and it’ll probably be SA, and I think we’d give them a game.

Doc Rob wrote:

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote: Burgher guys: you can start your civil war on who out of Darcy or Blair stays behind.

Well Darcy owns one of the starting jerseys so not him

Ha ha - obviously it’ll be McGuigan who misses out if that happens. But FFS, drop Harris!

In other news, Pyrgos?? He’s played a large part in the failure of Edinburgh’s season, and there are 4 9s in the squad, which is clearly one too many.

In a 17/14 split we're taking 5 back-3 players: Hogg, Seymour, Maitland, Graham and Kinghorn.
In a 18/13 it's one fewer - so Graham or Kinghorn misses out. Toonie is not leaving his Lions behind.

clydecloggie wrote:

Doc Rob wrote:

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote: Burgher guys: you can start your civil war on who out of Darcy or Blair stays behind.

Well Darcy owns one of the starting jerseys so not him

Ha ha - obviously it’ll be McGuigan who misses out if that happens. But FFS, drop Harris!

In other news, Pyrgos?? He’s played a large part in the failure of Edinburgh’s season, and there are 4 9s in the squad, which is clearly one too many.

In a 17/14 split we're taking 5 back-3 players: Hogg, Seymour, Maitland, Graham and Kinghorn.
In a 18/13 it's one fewer - so Graham or Kinghorn misses out. Toonie is not leaving his Lions behind.

Yes, fair enough... if we did have to drop one of those 5, I’d argue it ought to be Seymour, but I agree it won’t be. I reckon Toony would drop Kinghorn. Graham’s form in a Scotland shirt has been spectacular, whereas BK’s is more patchy. Plus both Maitland and Graham can cover FB if needed.

Another possible bolter we didn’t get (which nobody mentioned) was McDowall. Nice that we have so many centre options now - suspect Bennett was staying home even if he hadn’t got the injury. I remain a bit unconvinced by Grigg though and Harris is a waste of a shirt (at least so far).

Doc Rob wrote:Another possible bolter we didn’t get (which nobody mentioned) was McDowall. Nice that we have so many centre options now - suspect Bennett was staying home even if he hadn’t got the injury. I remain a bit unconvinced by Grigg though and Harris is a waste of a shirt (at least so far).

Harris and Mcguigan still remain prime 23 shirt options. All wings cover full back, but none 13 and none of the 13s cover wing.

Realistically without one of them in the matchday squad need to look at other options.
Jones covering wing, continuing Hastings covering 15 or even Hogg back covering 13 to keep options open in such a small 31 man squad and so many games to worry about.

Doc Rob wrote:Another possible bolter we didn’t get (which nobody mentioned) was McDowall. Nice that we have so many centre options now - suspect Bennett was staying home even if he hadn’t got the injury. I remain a bit unconvinced by Grigg though and Harris is a waste of a shirt (at least so far).

He's not going to play for Glasgow between now and the end of the season unless there's a very bad injury run so I'd be surprised.

Has he been in the Glasgow 23 since the Sarries debacle?

I like haggis wrote:

Doc Rob wrote:Another possible bolter we didn’t get (which nobody mentioned) was McDowall. Nice that we have so many centre options now - suspect Bennett was staying home even if he hadn’t got the injury. I remain a bit unconvinced by Grigg though and Harris is a waste of a shirt (at least so far).

He's not going to play for Glasgow between now and the end of the season unless there's a very bad injury run so I'd be surprised.

Has he been in the Glasgow 23 since the Sarries debacle?

he's been playing for Ayr I think

All the ins and outs from Scotland's training squad for RWC 2019 plus more stats than you can shake a spreadsheet at.

Oh and double Depth Chart goodness including the players who didn't make the cut but might still be involved...

https://wp.me/p68WtH-8cX

Surely we can ditch Pyrgos and Harris to create a bit of space? Not sure who for as I type this mind...

Tom English's new article pretty much surmises the thoughts expressed in the last few pages: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/48195537

Hope Taylor can prove his fitness as Horne is just not the required quality if we're thinking about a serious tilt beyond a meek QF exit. (though he does offer the flexibility).

I'm not entirely getting the anti PHorne sentiment. He has the occasional brain fart but is also capable of play of the highest order. He's a great 12 playing next to Russell or Hastings, and has big-game experience. Scored the first try in the '15 QF with quick thinking and good awareness. He'd be fourth in the pecking order if Johnson, Jones and Taylor all travel, but to have someone of his quality as the last resort would be a big plus.

Caley_Red wrote:Tom English's new article pretty much surmises the thoughts expressed in the last few pages: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/48195537

Hope Taylor can prove his fitness as Horne is just not the required quality if we're thinking about a serious tilt beyond a meek QF exit. (though he does offer the flexibility).

It's very pleasing that this is true:

The 44 will be whittled down to 31, which will take some doing. It's fair to say that of all of Scotland's World Cup squads since the tournament began back in 1987, this one demands more debate than any other and, as a consequence, will be the toughest of all to pick.

We have never had depth like this, something is working.

clydecloggie wrote:I'm not entirely getting the anti PHorne sentiment. He has the occasional brain fart but is also capable of play of the highest order. He's a great 12 playing next to Russell or Hastings, and has big-game experience. Scored the first try in the '15 QF with quick thinking and good awareness. He'd be fourth in the pecking order if Johnson, Jones and Taylor all travel, but to have someone of his quality as the last resort would be a big plus.

Yeah Pete Horne is great as a second choice 12 - he's also a great squad man.

Interesting none of us mentioned Lee Jones as the other back and that seems to be who the spot is open for!

slick wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:Tom English's new article pretty much surmises the thoughts expressed in the last few pages: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/48195537

Hope Taylor can prove his fitness as Horne is just not the required quality if we're thinking about a serious tilt beyond a meek QF exit. (though he does offer the flexibility).

It's very pleasing that this is true:

The 44 will be whittled down to 31, which will take some doing. It's fair to say that of all of Scotland's World Cup squads since the tournament began back in 1987, this one demands more debate than any other and, as a consequence, will be the toughest of all to pick.

We have never had depth like this, something is working.

Yup. In all likelihood, players of the calibre of Magnus Bradbury, Jamie Ritchie, Blair Kinghorn, Rory Hutchinson will miss out *while being fit*. It's unheard of.

clydecloggie wrote:

slick wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:Tom English's new article pretty much surmises the thoughts expressed in the last few pages: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/48195537

Hope Taylor can prove his fitness as Horne is just not the required quality if we're thinking about a serious tilt beyond a meek QF exit. (though he does offer the flexibility).

It's very pleasing that this is true:

The 44 will be whittled down to 31, which will take some doing. It's fair to say that of all of Scotland's World Cup squads since the tournament began back in 1987, this one demands more debate than any other and, as a consequence, will be the toughest of all to pick.

We have never had depth like this, something is working.

Yup. In all likelihood, players of the calibre of Magnus Bradbury, Jamie Ritchie, Blair Kinghorn, Rory Hutchinson will miss out *while being fit*. It's unheard of.

I'd have Bradbury starting at 8.

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:

slick wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:Tom English's new article pretty much surmises the thoughts expressed in the last few pages: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/48195537

Hope Taylor can prove his fitness as Horne is just not the required quality if we're thinking about a serious tilt beyond a meek QF exit. (though he does offer the flexibility).

It's very pleasing that this is true:

The 44 will be whittled down to 31, which will take some doing. It's fair to say that of all of Scotland's World Cup squads since the tournament began back in 1987, this one demands more debate than any other and, as a consequence, will be the toughest of all to pick.

We have never had depth like this, something is working.

Yup. In all likelihood, players of the calibre of Magnus Bradbury, Jamie Ritchie, Blair Kinghorn, Rory Hutchinson will miss out *while being fit*. It's unheard of.

I'd have Bradbury starting at 8.

My crystal ball suggests one of Bradbury and Ritchie will travel, but not both. Tough choice.

clydecloggie wrote:

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:

slick wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:Tom English's new article pretty much surmises the thoughts expressed in the last few pages: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/48195537

Hope Taylor can prove his fitness as Horne is just not the required quality if we're thinking about a serious tilt beyond a meek QF exit. (though he does offer the flexibility).

It's very pleasing that this is true:

The 44 will be whittled down to 31, which will take some doing. It's fair to say that of all of Scotland's World Cup squads since the tournament began back in 1987, this one demands more debate than any other and, as a consequence, will be the toughest of all to pick.

We have never had depth like this, something is working.

Yup. In all likelihood, players of the calibre of Magnus Bradbury, Jamie Ritchie, Blair Kinghorn, Rory Hutchinson will miss out *while being fit*. It's unheard of.

I'd have Bradbury starting at 8.

My crystal ball suggests one of Bradbury and Ritchie will travel, but not both. Tough choice.

I suspect that will be the case. But if Barclay is seen as the 1st choice 6, then Ritchie really should travel as a back up 7/utility. That way if on the morning of a game Watson has the shits then there is minimal disruption.

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:
My crystal ball suggests one of Bradbury and Ritchie will travel, but not both. Tough choice.

I suspect that will be the case. But if Barclay is seen as the 1st choice 6, then Ritchie really should travel as a back up 7/utility. That way if on the morning of a game Watson has the shits then there is minimal disruption.

Thinking about it, there are two options. I'm assuming Barclay, Watson and Wilson are all certain to go (Barclay/Wilson because experience and leadership are in short supply in a greenish squad, and they had the jerseys before injuries struck, and Watson is one of the best opensides on the planet). That leaves two places - an 8 and a flanker.

Option 1 is that Barclay travels in the dual role of second-choice 7 and first-choice 6. In that case, the two remaining back-row spots will go to 6/8-type players; two out of Thomson, Bradbury, Strauss, Matt Fagerson.

Option 2 is that Barclay is not seen as the second-choice 7 as he is already the first-choice 6. In which case Ritchie is pretty much nailed on to go as Watson's understudy. But then it's unlikely that an equally green 5th back row will go, so Josh Strauss finds himself in pole position, or maybe Blade Thomson if he's seen as the 2019 version of 2015 Strauss - experienced and influential at all levels except Test.

So I'm going for either Bradbury with Thomson/Strauss or Ritchie with Thomson/Strauss depending on John Barclay's role in the squad, if that makes sense.

Personally, I'd favour the second option as it's dangerous to see one of your starting XV also as a back-up to another player in that same XV. Not during a single match, but over the course of a whole tournament it might be asking a bit too much from gramps Barclay.

clydecloggie wrote:

Big D wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:

slick wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:Tom English's new article pretty much surmises the thoughts expressed in the last few pages: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/48195537

Hope Taylor can prove his fitness as Horne is just not the required quality if we're thinking about a serious tilt beyond a meek QF exit. (though he does offer the flexibility).

It's very pleasing that this is true:

The 44 will be whittled down to 31, which will take some doing. It's fair to say that of all of Scotland's World Cup squads since the tournament began back in 1987, this one demands more debate than any other and, as a consequence, will be the toughest of all to pick.

We have never had depth like this, something is working.

Yup. In all likelihood, players of the calibre of Magnus Bradbury, Jamie Ritchie, Blair Kinghorn, Rory Hutchinson will miss out *while being fit*. It's unheard of.

I'd have Bradbury starting at 8.

My crystal ball suggests one of Bradbury and Ritchie will travel, but not both. Tough choice.

You're probably right. But both should (albeit no doubt won't) travel ahead of Wilson, who suffers from brain farts and has a history of giving away penalties that neither of the younger options does.

Back row ought to be:
Watson 7
Bradbury 8/6
Barclay 6/7 (assuming he regains his form post-injury...)
Thomson 8/6 or Wilson 6/8, depending on how Thomson shows in the warm-ups
Ritchie 7/6/8
plus of course Skinner 4/6 and Brown at 2/7!

Injury may of course mean that none of these misses out on selection grounds, but to my mind Wilson's the one that ought to, no matter how much fun he is.

I can't see Strauss and Fagerson making it but then again I'm not Toony!

Wilson does cover 7 as well. You'd have Wilson, Barclay who could in a pinch play 6/7/8.

Starting backrow Barclay Watson Bradbury/Thomson for me with Wilson at 20 covering 3 slots then for your "minnow" games Ritchie to play 7 with Wilson 8 and Skinner 6 is my guess.

charltom wrote:You're probably right. But both should (albeit no doubt won't) travel ahead of Wilson, who suffers from brain farts and has a history of giving away penalties that neither of the younger options does.

Back row ought to be:
Watson 7
Bradbury 8/6
Barclay 6/7 (assuming he regains his form post-injury...)
Thomson 8/6 or Wilson 6/8, depending on how Thomson shows in the warm-ups
Ritchie 7/6/8
plus of course Skinner 4/6 and Brown at 2/7!

Injury may of course mean that none of these misses out on selection grounds, but to my mind Wilson's the one that ought to, no matter how much fun he is.

I can't see Strauss and Fagerson making it but then again I'm not Toony!

Just on the penalty count - these are PRO14 only stats for last season but quite interesting I thought:

Watson - penalty every 33 minutes / 0 yellow cards
Ritchie - 54 mins / 1 YC
Wilson - 62 mins / 0 YC
Bradbury - 82 mins / 1 YC
Matt Fagerson - 123 mins / 0 YC
Barclay - 194 mins / 0 YC