Planet Rugby Forum

topofthemoon wrote:

charltom wrote:You're probably right. But both should (albeit no doubt won't) travel ahead of Wilson, who suffers from brain farts and has a history of giving away penalties that neither of the younger options does.

Back row ought to be:
Watson 7
Bradbury 8/6
Barclay 6/7 (assuming he regains his form post-injury...)
Thomson 8/6 or Wilson 6/8, depending on how Thomson shows in the warm-ups
Ritchie 7/6/8
plus of course Skinner 4/6 and Brown at 2/7!

Injury may of course mean that none of these misses out on selection grounds, but to my mind Wilson's the one that ought to, no matter how much fun he is.

I can't see Strauss and Fagerson making it but then again I'm not Toony!

Just on the penalty count - these are PRO14 only stats for last season but quite interesting I thought:

Watson - penalty every 33 minutes / 0 yellow cards
Ritchie - 54 mins / 1 YC
Wilson - 62 mins / 0 YC
Bradbury - 82 mins / 1 YC
Matt Fagerson - 123 mins / 0 YC
Barclay - 194 mins / 0 YC

I would expect the guys playing 7 to give away more penalties. Not sure if that is backed up by stats right enough.

I think the perception isn't that Wilson gives away lots of penalties but that when he does they are often daft and/or unnecessary penalties. Where as I would have thought Ritchie was a penalty machine at the breakdown but averaging loosely 3 pens every 2 games isn't as bad as I thought it was.

To be fair I am far from his biggest fan but think Wilson has tidied that up a lot.

Big D wrote:

topofthemoon wrote:

charltom wrote:You're probably right. But both should (albeit no doubt won't) travel ahead of Wilson, who suffers from brain farts and has a history of giving away penalties that neither of the younger options does.

Back row ought to be:
Watson 7
Bradbury 8/6
Barclay 6/7 (assuming he regains his form post-injury...)
Thomson 8/6 or Wilson 6/8, depending on how Thomson shows in the warm-ups
Ritchie 7/6/8
plus of course Skinner 4/6 and Brown at 2/7!

Injury may of course mean that none of these misses out on selection grounds, but to my mind Wilson's the one that ought to, no matter how much fun he is.

I can't see Strauss and Fagerson making it but then again I'm not Toony!

Just on the penalty count - these are PRO14 only stats for last season but quite interesting I thought:

Watson - penalty every 33 minutes / 0 yellow cards
Ritchie - 54 mins / 1 YC
Wilson - 62 mins / 0 YC
Bradbury - 82 mins / 1 YC
Matt Fagerson - 123 mins / 0 YC
Barclay - 194 mins / 0 YC

I would expect the guys playing 7 to give away more penalties. Not sure if that is backed up by stats right enough.

I think the perception isn't that Wilson gives away lots of penalties but that when he does they are often daft and/or unnecessary penalties. Where as I would have thought Ritchie was a penalty machine at the breakdown but averaging loosely 3 pens every 2 games isn't as bad as I thought it was.

To be fair I am far from his biggest fan but think Wilson has tidied that up a lot.

Agree on both Wilson and openside points. Bet Barclay’s stats were nothing like that when he was more regularly at 7.

topofthemoon wrote:

charltom wrote:You're probably right. But both should (albeit no doubt won't) travel ahead of Wilson, who suffers from brain farts and has a history of giving away penalties that neither of the younger options does.

Back row ought to be:
Watson 7
Bradbury 8/6
Barclay 6/7 (assuming he regains his form post-injury...)
Thomson 8/6 or Wilson 6/8, depending on how Thomson shows in the warm-ups
Ritchie 7/6/8
plus of course Skinner 4/6 and Brown at 2/7!

Injury may of course mean that none of these misses out on selection grounds, but to my mind Wilson's the one that ought to, no matter how much fun he is.

I can't see Strauss and Fagerson making it but then again I'm not Toony!

Just on the penalty count - these are PRO14 only stats for last season but quite interesting I thought:

Watson - penalty every 33 minutes / 0 yellow cards
Ritchie - 54 mins / 1 YC
Wilson - 62 mins / 0 YC
Bradbury - 82 mins / 1 YC
Matt Fagerson - 123 mins / 0 YC
Barclay - 194 mins / 0 YC

Interesting. Do you have them at test level?

Not getting to watch much Northern Hemisphere rugby these last few years but what like is Rory Hutchison? He was on the rugby pod and both Goodey and Big Jim were singing his praises but I haven't actually seen him play!

I wonder if for gits and shiggles if we'll see Hutchinson at 10 in one of the warm up games. I know he hasn't played a lot at 10 in the last few years but he has played 10 before and could be a bench option in the Russia game at 10 if for any reason Horne doesn't travel.

charltom wrote:

topofthemoon wrote:

charltom wrote:You're probably right. But both should (albeit no doubt won't) travel ahead of Wilson, who suffers from brain farts and has a history of giving away penalties that neither of the younger options does.

Back row ought to be:
Watson 7
Bradbury 8/6
Barclay 6/7 (assuming he regains his form post-injury...)
Thomson 8/6 or Wilson 6/8, depending on how Thomson shows in the warm-ups
Ritchie 7/6/8
plus of course Skinner 4/6 and Brown at 2/7!

Injury may of course mean that none of these misses out on selection grounds, but to my mind Wilson's the one that ought to, no matter how much fun he is.

I can't see Strauss and Fagerson making it but then again I'm not Toony!

Just on the penalty count - these are PRO14 only stats for last season but quite interesting I thought:

Watson - penalty every 33 minutes / 0 yellow cards
Ritchie - 54 mins / 1 YC
Wilson - 62 mins / 0 YC
Bradbury - 82 mins / 1 YC
Matt Fagerson - 123 mins / 0 YC
Barclay - 194 mins / 0 YC

Interesting. Do you have them at test level?

Just for the 2 years and 23 Tests since Toony took charge.

Graham - 25 mins / 0 YC
Ritchie - 63 mins / 0 YC
Wilson - 65 mins / 1 YC
Barclay - 82 mins / 0 YC
Watson - 114 mins / 0 YC
Strauss - 278 mins / 1 YC

Magnus Bradbury and Matt Fagerson haven't conceded any penalties in this period.

Worth noting for Wilson since the riot against Australia in Sydney where he fell out with Wayne Barnes and conceded 6 penalties plus a yellow card in 47 minutes(!) his rate has dropped to a penalty every 112 minutes and no YCs.

topofthemoon wrote:

charltom wrote:

topofthemoon wrote:

charltom wrote:You're probably right. But both should (albeit no doubt won't) travel ahead of Wilson, who suffers from brain farts and has a history of giving away penalties that neither of the younger options does.

Back row ought to be:
Watson 7
Bradbury 8/6
Barclay 6/7 (assuming he regains his form post-injury...)
Thomson 8/6 or Wilson 6/8, depending on how Thomson shows in the warm-ups
Ritchie 7/6/8
plus of course Skinner 4/6 and Brown at 2/7!

Injury may of course mean that none of these misses out on selection grounds, but to my mind Wilson's the one that ought to, no matter how much fun he is.

I can't see Strauss and Fagerson making it but then again I'm not Toony!

Just on the penalty count - these are PRO14 only stats for last season but quite interesting I thought:

Watson - penalty every 33 minutes / 0 yellow cards
Ritchie - 54 mins / 1 YC
Wilson - 62 mins / 0 YC
Bradbury - 82 mins / 1 YC
Matt Fagerson - 123 mins / 0 YC
Barclay - 194 mins / 0 YC

Interesting. Do you have them at test level?

Just for the 2 years and 23 Tests since Toony took charge.

Graham - 25 mins / 0 YC
Ritchie - 63 mins / 0 YC
Wilson - 65 mins / 1 YC
Barclay - 82 mins / 0 YC
Watson - 114 mins / 0 YC
Strauss - 278 mins / 1 YC

Magnus Bradbury and Matt Fagerson haven't conceded any penalties in this period.

Worth noting for Wilson since the riot against Australia in Sydney where he fell out with Wayne Barnes and conceded 6 penalties plus a yellow card in 47 minutes(!) his rate has dropped to a penalty every 112 minutes and no YCs.

For an international 7 that is pretty good from Watson to be fair considering how many breakdowns he will be in and around.

Caley_Red wrote:Not getting to watch much Northern Hemisphere rugby these last few years but what like is Rory Hutchison? He was on the rugby pod and both Goodey and Big Jim were singing his praises but I haven't actually seen him play!

Yet another graduate of the U20 that spanked England U20 in 2017. Support for the first try for Kinghorn is what he has now been doing for Northampton this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo_nA3q2oTk

Edinburgh01 wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:Not getting to watch much Northern Hemisphere rugby these last few years but what like is Rory Hutchison? He was on the rugby pod and both Goodey and Big Jim were singing his praises but I haven't actually seen him play!

Yet another graduate of the U20 that spanked England U20 in 2017. Support for the first try for Kinghorn is what he has now been doing for Northampton this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo_nA3q2oTk

Good team that. Loads of guys in it who have made the step up. Hastings, Kinghorn, Hutchinson, Davidson, McCallum, Kerr, Cummings, Smith all pros.

clydecloggie wrote:

Edinburgh01 wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:Not getting to watch much Northern Hemisphere rugby these last few years but what like is Rory Hutchison? He was on the rugby pod and both Goodey and Big Jim were singing his praises but I haven't actually seen him play!

Yet another graduate of the U20 that spanked England U20 in 2017. Support for the first try for Kinghorn is what he has now been doing for Northampton this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo_nA3q2oTk

Good team that. Loads of guys in it who have made the step up. Hastings, Kinghorn, Hutchinson, Davidson, McCallum, Kerr, Cummings, Smith all pros.

It is easier to identify those who did not play pro than those who did. Then the Likes of Hunter-Hill, Shiel, Taylor, Nichol on the bench.

Murray McCallum
Jake Kerr
Callum Sheldon
Andrew Davidson
Scott Cummings
Matt Smith
Jamie Ritchie
Ally Miller
Hugh Fraser
Adam Hastings
Tom Galbraith
Rory Hutchinson
Darcy Graham
Robbie Nairn
Blair Kinghorn

Edinburgh01 wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:

Edinburgh01 wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:Not getting to watch much Northern Hemisphere rugby these last few years but what like is Rory Hutchison? He was on the rugby pod and both Goodey and Big Jim were singing his praises but I haven't actually seen him play!

Yet another graduate of the U20 that spanked England U20 in 2017. Support for the first try for Kinghorn is what he has now been doing for Northampton this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo_nA3q2oTk

Good team that. Loads of guys in it who have made the step up. Hastings, Kinghorn, Hutchinson, Davidson, McCallum, Kerr, Cummings, Smith all pros.

It is easier to identify those who did not play pro than those who did. Then the Likes of Hunter-Hill, Shiel, Taylor, Nichol on the bench.

Murray McCallum
Jake Kerr
Callum Sheldon
Andrew Davidson
Scott Cummings
Matt Smith
Jamie Ritchie
Ally Miller
Hugh Fraser
Adam Hastings
Tom Galbraith
Rory Hutchinson
Darcy Graham
Robbie Nairn
Blair Kinghorn

Was Fraser the one who walked away from pro rugby?

Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

Big D wrote:Was Fraser the one who walked away from pro rugby?

Yup. He was on a stage 3 on £8k, did the maths and decided he'd rather study law.

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

Lang was name checked at the presser by Townsend.

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

If I had the faintest idea who he is I might comment. But I do not so I won't.

Edinburgh01 wrote:

Big D wrote:Was Fraser the one who walked away from pro rugby?

Yup. He was on a stage 3 on £8k, did the maths and decided he'd rather study law.

Pah no dedication. Matt Scott did both...

I jest, good for him for making the right decision for him.

Have 2 tickets for the Pro14 final going free.

Have 2 tickets for the Pro14 final going free.

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

This Will Jordan chat comes form a YouTube highlights reel with the SRU logo in the top right corner. People assume he's being scouted by the SRU from that.

He's one of the top prospects in NZ, I can't see it.

I like haggis wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

This Will Jordan chat comes form a YouTube highlights reel with the SRU logo in the top right corner. People assume he's being scouted by the SRU from that.

He's one of the top prospects in NZ, I can't see it.

Nah. Can’t see a NZ born player with U20 caps and a good chance of making the ABs opting for Scotland instead. Though it would be great.

Not confirmed officially by the club but Reid has left LI and moved back to Scotland. Assume he's Glasgow bound. Tonks has also gone.

Rory Brand has been promoted from the academy to the senior squad, so we'll have two Scottish 9s on the books next season with Steele. Thought Brand would have got a few more opportunities with us in the Championship, but spent most of the season on loan with London Scottish in the end.

Doc Rob wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

This Will Jordan chat comes form a YouTube highlights reel with the SRU logo in the top right corner. People assume he's being scouted by the SRU from that.

He's one of the top prospects in NZ, I can't see it.

Nah. Can’t see a NZ born player with U20 caps and a good chance of making the ABs opting for Scotland instead. Though it would be great.

Not in a zillion years will NZR let the man destined to replace Ben Smith next year - and the closest the All Blacks will get to Christian Cullen Mk II - head offshore before he's had the chance to fulfil his promise in the Black jersey.

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

I've seen this lad play, unless he is dyed in the wool Scottish, there's no chance he's playing for us: The guy is fantastic and will most likely play for the ABs with Ben Smith going and Barrett being a bit shaky at 15.

Would absolutely love it though.

Caley_Red wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

I've seen this lad play, unless he is dyed in the wool Scottish, there's no chance he's playing for us: The guy is fantastic and will most likely play for the ABs with Ben Smith going and Barrett being a bit shaky at 15.

Would absolutely love it though.

This is definitely a 2+2=5 rumour. Zero chance one of the brightest young All Blacks is going to play for Scotland.

Grizz Wyllie wrote:

Doc Rob wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

This Will Jordan chat comes form a YouTube highlights reel with the SRU logo in the top right corner. People assume he's being scouted by the SRU from that.

He's one of the top prospects in NZ, I can't see it.

Nah. Can’t see a NZ born player with U20 caps and a good chance of making the ABs opting for Scotland instead. Though it would be great.

Not in a zillion years will NZR let the man destined to replace Ben Smith next year - and the closest the All Blacks will get to Christian Cullen Mk II - head offshore before he's had the chance to fulfil his promise in the Black jersey.

Yeah, I agree. I might laugh for a week if it did happen, though.

Alba wrote:

Caley_Red wrote:

clydecloggie wrote:Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast. Some chat about the final outside back being Crusaders full-back Will Jordan.

Does anyone think that's credible?

Apart from Kyle Steyn there's no obvious other candidate, and Steyn is mainly playing 13, also the last thing this squad needs is another centre.

I've seen this lad play, unless he is dyed in the wool Scottish, there's no chance he's playing for us: The guy is fantastic and will most likely play for the ABs with Ben Smith going and Barrett being a bit shaky at 15.

Would absolutely love it though.

This is definitely a 2+2=5 rumour. Zero chance one of the brightest young All Blacks is going to play for Scotland.

What? It's happened before! Or have we all forgotten Brendan "Chainsaw" Laney? FFS.

Well, shit.

That's another Lions tour I won't be interested in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634

Biffer29 wrote:Well, shit.

That's another Lions tour I won't be interested in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634

A lot of rugby to be played between now and then, but yes it does leave a sour taste in the mouth

Biffer29 wrote:Well, shit.

That's another Lions tour I won't be interested in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634

So long as our players consistently make knock out stages of the European competitions and do well in the 6N that is the main thing and then with regards to the Lions what will be will be. There is a lot of player turn over going to happen between now and then.

Big D wrote:

Biffer29 wrote:Well, shit.

That's another Lions tour I won't be interested in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634

So long as our players consistently make knock out stages of the European competitions and do well in the 6N that is the main thing and then with regards to the Lions what will be will be. There is a lot of player turn over going to happen between now and then.

Quite. We just have to start proving him wrong, which we haven't really.

Biffer29 wrote:Well, shit.

That's another Lions tour I won't be interested in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634

There was a time that I was a staunch defender of the Lions concept. Those days have long gone. I could accept it when Scotland just did not have the players to justify selection, but now it seems every 50:50 goes against them. The tipping point was Gatland's petty comment when Townsend turned down the assistant role that Scottish players would suffer in selection conversations by not having a Scottish coach to fight their corner. Surely it is incumbent on the coaches to make sure they are familiar with all the candidate players, and make an effort to gain that knowledge from countries not represented on the coaching panel.

Big D wrote:

Biffer29 wrote:Well, shit.

That's another Lions tour I won't be interested in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634

So long as our players consistently make knock out stages of the European competitions and do well in the 6N that is the main thing and then with regards to the Lions what will be will be. There is a lot of player turn over going to happen between now and then.

I think you're misintepreting my 'Gatland is a wit kant' meaning.

It's not just the thing about Scottish players, it's also the shit style of bishbosh rugby he coaches. Doesn't take advantage of the assets at his disposal and just coaches the team to be Wales+, rather than looking at what he has and producing the best style of play for the best players available.

Biffer29 wrote:It's not just the thing about Scottish players, it's also the shit style of bishbosh rugby he coaches. Doesn't take advantage of the assets at his disposal and just coaches the team to be Wales+, rather than looking at what he has and producing the best style of play for the best players available.

A tour win in Oz and draw in NZ suggests you are wrong I'm afraid. In todays environment, whatever you think of Gatland, those are brilliant results.

slick wrote:

Biffer29 wrote:It's not just the thing about Scottish players, it's also the shit style of bishbosh rugby he coaches. Doesn't take advantage of the assets at his disposal and just coaches the team to be Wales+, rather than looking at what he has and producing the best style of play for the best players available.

A tour win in Oz and draw in NZ suggests you are wrong I'm afraid. In todays environment, whatever you think of Gatland, those are brilliant results.

That squad should have won in NZ, and winning in Oz isn't so tough anymore - we've won two games over there in the last decade so again, the talent in a Lions tour should cuff them.

And the style of rugby is shit boring.

slick wrote:

Big D wrote:

Biffer29 wrote:Well, shit.

That's another Lions tour I won't be interested in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634

So long as our players consistently make knock out stages of the European competitions and do well in the 6N that is the main thing and then with regards to the Lions what will be will be. There is a lot of player turn over going to happen between now and then.

Quite. We just have to start proving him wrong, which we haven't really.

Not consistently, no, but what irritates the hell out of me is that the goalposts keep moving. Before the last tour we beat both Ireland and Wales, both of whom had far more players selected. Apparently it was now all about performance in away games. Nobody is telling me Gatland would have picked more Scots if we hadn’t had a bad off day v England. He never had any intention of picking more than a token few players - the England game just gave him an excuse.

Absolutely gutted that another Lions tour is now ruined.

Biffer29 wrote:

slick wrote:

Biffer29 wrote:It's not just the thing about Scottish players, it's also the shit style of bishbosh rugby he coaches. Doesn't take advantage of the assets at his disposal and just coaches the team to be Wales+, rather than looking at what he has and producing the best style of play for the best players available.

A tour win in Oz and draw in NZ suggests you are wrong I'm afraid. In todays environment, whatever you think of Gatland, those are brilliant results.

That squad should have won in NZ, and winning in Oz isn't so tough anymore - we've won two games over there in the last decade so again, the talent in a Lions tour should cuff them.

With 3 weeks together before the first test you want the coach to come up with and introduce a completely new way of playing? Come on. Sorry, I don't think that is Gatlands fault, it's the fault of the administrators tying his hands with ludicrous timeframes. People would be slating him if the Lions got stuffed so what can he do? Pick the spine of a team with players he knows and play a style that he, and they know.

There are certainly a few things to critisise Gatland for, but I don't think that is one of them.

slick wrote:

Biffer29 wrote:

slick wrote:

Biffer29 wrote:It's not just the thing about Scottish players, it's also the shit style of bishbosh rugby he coaches. Doesn't take advantage of the assets at his disposal and just coaches the team to be Wales+, rather than looking at what he has and producing the best style of play for the best players available.

A tour win in Oz and draw in NZ suggests you are wrong I'm afraid. In todays environment, whatever you think of Gatland, those are brilliant results.

That squad should have won in NZ, and winning in Oz isn't so tough anymore - we've won two games over there in the last decade so again, the talent in a Lions tour should cuff them.

With 3 weeks together before the first test you want the coach to come up with and introduce a completely new way of playing? Come on. Sorry, I don't think that is Gatlands fault, it's the fault of the administrators tying his hands with ludicrous timeframes. People would be slating him if the Lions got stuffed so what can he do? Pick the spine of a team with players he knows and play a style that he, and they know.

There are certainly a few things to critisise Gatland for, but I don't think that is one of them.

Agreed. The Lions needed some positive results even after a great series v South Africa it was 3 tours since they had won a series and they hadn't won a meaningful (in the sense of the series) test since the 2nd test since Australia in 2001.

The time allowed as a squad is the main constraint. And it is a huge constraint.

Doc Rob wrote:

slick wrote:

Big D wrote:

Biffer29 wrote:Well, shit.

That's another Lions tour I won't be interested in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634

So long as our players consistently make knock out stages of the European competitions and do well in the 6N that is the main thing and then with regards to the Lions what will be will be. There is a lot of player turn over going to happen between now and then.

Quite. We just have to start proving him wrong, which we haven't really.

Not consistently, no, but what irritates the hell out of me is that the goalposts keep moving. Before the last tour we beat both Ireland and Wales, both of whom had far more players selected. Apparently it was now all about performance in away games. Nobody is telling me Gatland would have picked more Scots if we hadn’t had a bad off day v England. He never had any intention of picking more than a token few players - the England game just gave him an excuse.

Absolutely gutted that another Lions tour is now ruined.

This is the challenge for any coach selecting a representative team. From Caley, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Borders age grades all they way up to the Lions.

For example, Darcy Graham was performing better than Seymour going into the 6N. Seymour was picked due to past performances.

The England game wasn't just an away game. It was a game talked up as Scotland showing they had 6N title ambitions, it was a high pressure game and they bottled it. Arse shatteringly so. Glasgow went to Sarries and got beaten easily in the QFs in Europe that year. Another high pressure game. Both pro teams were nowhere in the league that year. Winning the odd game against a Welsh team without their head coach (we never beat a Gatland coached Welsh team and he was coach forever) or the odd game against Ireland is great but means little without consistency. We are starting to get a consistent at home but remain by and large poor away.

If the players take care of their club duties on the pitch, international honours will come and if they play well internationally collectively then Scotland will be consistently better. Do that then lets see where we are in two years and we can discuss Lions, get annoyed at Gatland, argue over the concept of the Lions etc.

As much as I don't like him he and his coaches have got a lot of selections right when it mattered for the test team even if squad selection has been debateable. Rowntree wanting Corbisiero over Grant in 2013, Gatland trusting Davies in 2017 had big impacts on the series.

OptimisticJock wrote:Have 2 tickets for the Pro14 final going free.

So I literally can't give these away