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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Morgan14 wrote:
Read that numbers of players are down significantly across the country (25% or more seems to be the figure I've been quoted), this despite the upsurge / influx from women playing. Not good


anybody else heard / read that or can refute it (please!)? Really hope it's not the case


The numbers have been going down across the board for all sports haven't they? Don't think this is a specific rugby issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:44 pm 
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I suspect it's worse than available numbers can prove.

I had a look at this last week and the annual reports section of the RC site doesn't even help:

2017: no report available
2016: report says 2015 numbers
2015: report says 2015 but has different data so assume the '2015' on the '16 report is a typo
2014: link has the 2015 pdf ...

BC has more comprehensive data and, from memory, most is trending downward. Where I think it'd be most telling is where no one seems to be counting: schools. Last year I kept hearing people in my network begging for anyone to coach high schools that were on the verge of not having a team. Some areas seem to have half as many teams as they used to have.

One story: https://www.therecord.com/sports-story/ ... h-numbers/

The article suggests kids aren't as interested, but I wonder how true that is of all? I'd heard that there are few schools with 30+ kids ready to go, but no teachers able / willing and community people who can't get time off work. If it's on the kids, I wonder if the coach has been an active recruiter (very difficult if it's a community person in charge, as a couple of friends have found) or if the coach has created a great environment. I know one where many keen kids get sick of the coach's aggressive attitude and have had enough as they get older.

Playing time is another understandable reason for quitting when the school season is so short... if your team isn't going to playoffs, you might get five or six league games? That can also happen if you're a winning team. My first assistant gig was an education in that, seeing a lot of boys quit and never come back because the heads were desperate to win and go to playoffs.

One buddy of mine is a reminder of it as he decided to give rugby a go again in his mid 20s after getting frustrated with lack of playing time in Gr 11. He became the quintessential 'club guy' - not a great athlete, but happy to take any front row position as starter or bench, at all events and volunteers time. Canadians do a great job of driving these people away. :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:23 pm 
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I think numbers have to be broken down between schools and clubs. Unsure of Ontario, but club numbers on the prairies can fluctuate year to year because of the transient turnover of players: at times 25-30% in a year. Kids are still playing sports. The last numbers I saw for football in Edmonton had 28 high schools with football programs, which is a good number of kids, for a sport some are saying will be gone in 20-25 years.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:29 pm 
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canuckles wrote:
I think numbers have to be broken down between schools and clubs. Unsure of Ontario, but club numbers on the prairies can fluctuate year to year because of the transient turnover of players: at times 25-30% in a year. Kids are still playing sports. The last numbers I saw for football in Edmonton had 28 high schools with football programs, which is a good number of kids, for a sport some are saying will be gone in 20-25 years.



Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get to that article I posted at the bottom of the previous page.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:35 pm 
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CanNZ2000 wrote:
Seems like the Wolfpack forgot to pay their players, oops.

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-pmn ... -coming-in


I do not get the thrust of the article: the Toronto league team had a "cash call" after missing payroll? They are usually done when money flow is low and payroll might be missed. The team's failure to get promotion will, of course, knock their plans back. The salary cap number mentioned in the article is likely for talent, meaning one has to add a good percentage of it for off the field expenses.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:36 pm 
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I've heard that club football is going strong in Eastern Ontario. Our school hasn't had football in a few years, but there are a few boys who play club. There are a bunch of kids at the elementary school who play club as well.

I'd love to see club rugby for youngsters played in spring and summer rather than just summer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
I've heard that club football is going strong in Eastern Ontario. Our school hasn't had football in a few years, but there are a few boys who play club. There are a bunch of kids at the elementary school who play club as well.

I'd love to see club rugby for youngsters played in spring and summer rather than just summer.



The club season for the youngsters (minis and up to U13) runs from end of May onwards, so at least 1 month of spring. I agree with you in that I wish the schedule / games started at the beginning of May. (April weather too uncooperative - fields aren't open for the most part).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:21 pm 
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Morgan14 wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
I've heard that club football is going strong in Eastern Ontario. Our school hasn't had football in a few years, but there are a few boys who play club. There are a bunch of kids at the elementary school who play club as well.

I'd love to see club rugby for youngsters played in spring and summer rather than just summer.



The club season for the youngsters (minis and up to U13) runs from end of May onwards, so at least 1 month of spring. I agree with you in that I wish the schedule / games started at the beginning of May. (April weather too uncooperative - fields aren't open for the most part).


Right, I'm thinking of that (imo) crucial teen category.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:23 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
The article suggests kids aren't as interested, but I wonder how true that is of all? I'd heard that there are few schools with 30+ kids ready to go, but no teachers able / willing and community people who can't get time off work. If it's on the kids, I wonder if the coach has been an active recruiter (very difficult if it's a community person in charge, as a couple of friends have found) or if the coach has created a great environment. I know one where many keen kids get sick of the coach's aggressive attitude and have had enough as they get older.


The problem, which we've raised with the VRU and BCRU, is a lack of proper coaches at the schools. Realistically, getting kids playing especially in schools is dependent on an individual passionate teacher. Or parents, same for youth clubs. And if that person isn't there, or if they don't have the support and aren't a qualified coach themselves, the programme either doesn't exist or maybe doesn't succeed like it should. Support that individual, coming either from local clubs or the local union (yeah, I know...) is essential.

-----

That said, when these passionate individuals are in place, things can grow very quickly. Which is why I don't buy the chicken-licken some Canadians (and ye lot on here!) show when it comes to short term trends. These thing can fluctuate very easily and all it takes is those few people to make a real, tangible difference.

Our community is a perfect example:

There was a mens rugby team in Squamish back in the 90s (you can thank them for Canada's most successful rugby player, one Mr Cudmore :) ). But that folded as the loggers and other men moved on. There was a team in Whistler made up of ex pats who played in summer tournaments back in the early 00s. And about 10 years there was a team of kids out of Whistler Secondary.

All that folded, faded away. Then go to 2012 and there was no rugby in Squamish. But one parent whose kid had played in the Whistler school set a team up in the local high school. Same time a mens rugby league team was setup.

But jump to 5 years ago and there was very little rugby again - there was none in Whistler bar summer touch, the league team was gone and the Squamish high school was the only remaining rugby.

Yet since then, in a few short years, things have boomed. A few of the lads from the league team got together, a few more of us got involved and we re-established a local rugby team for the whole corridor back in mid 2014; put coaches in the school in Squamish; set up a youth club; partnered with Quest Uni and their rugby programme; and the teacher in Whistler school started up rugby again 2 years ago with another batch of enthusiastic young teens and a few of us from the club helping out with coaching.

The Whistler high school ran both Grade 8s and 9s rugby this year, with both years getting their first ever wins and loving their rugby (we're hoping to have 8s, 9s and 10s next year, and the kids want to play again in the Spring too). The youth rugby in Squamish has over 50 kids from (I think) 7 to 11 out every weekend. And the men's club has grown and grown in our 4 short years (mostly by focusing on the off field community and support) and is top of the table at the mid point playing great rugby, having competed in finals the last few years, and the number of local kids involved with the club keeps growing as well (part in thanks to the partnership with Quest Uni). A proper local club, a core made up of long term residents, spread throughout the corridor. Hoping to field a seconds team before this season finishes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:09 am 
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Nailed it. Excellent examples. :thumbup:

Victoria is one of those situations that should be way better than it is. I've been gone a couple of years, and they just got a full time development officer in the fall, so hopefully things are on the rise.

The girls' league was only 7s because none, bar maybe one or two schools, could get the numbers together. I think maybe three of the 8-10 competing schools had a rugby-knowledgeable teacher in charge. The community people, which included several friends, are knowledgeable enough and dedicated, but even though they can make practices and games, they couldn't be wandering the halls and making connections with kids like school staff can to muster new recruits. For my three friends, the teacher sponsors only showed when they had to (and one of these was consistently among the best teams in the region).

Boys is mostly XVs, but fewer schools play and two of them (Oak Bay / SMUS) utterly dominate... I don't know how much they even play local schools as the results would be so lopsided. Esquimalt runs an academy, which even has RC players pop in now and then, but one Oak Bay standout who moved across told me the quality of instruction wasn't good, so he moved back (and ended up winning a provincial title with his old school). I was asked to referee a game between two of the weaker schools, by a Gr 12 student who was essentially coaching his own team and wasn't sure if the teacher was going to be there for the game. I wanted nothing to do with the potential liabilities, though I completely sympathised with their desire to play.

Those things all lead me to believe that development coach's job to help a) recruit, educate and retain teacher-coaches, and b) do so more with the 'have not' schools to help close the gap is vital. With a stronger, more popular and better quality school system, more kids will likely want to stick with the game and move into junior club rugby and upwards.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:17 am 
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Non rugby question lads, but thought this'd be the thread to ask.
Any of you done tours in the far north of Canada? (Nunavut, that kind've thing?)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:20 am 
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Floppykid wrote:
Non rugby question lads, but thought this'd be the thread to ask.
Any of you done tours in the far north of Canada? (Nunavut, that kind've thing?)


No, and you literally couldn't pay me enough to go to the frozen north. ... because a friend up there tried and I wouldn't even consider the bonus bucks you get for working up there.

But can ask if you have questions and no one else has answers!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:23 am 
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Nieghorn wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
Non rugby question lads, but thought this'd be the thread to ask.
Any of you done tours in the far north of Canada? (Nunavut, that kind've thing?)


No, and you literally couldn't pay me enough to go to the frozen north. ... because a friend up there tried and I wouldn't even consider the bonus bucks you get for working up there.

But can ask if you have questions and no one else has answers!

Haha, yeah, probably just a pipedream/idealised version of it I have in my head. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:41 am 
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Floppykid wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
Non rugby question lads, but thought this'd be the thread to ask.
Any of you done tours in the far north of Canada? (Nunavut, that kind've thing?)


No, and you literally couldn't pay me enough to go to the frozen north. ... because a friend up there tried and I wouldn't even consider the bonus bucks you get for working up there.

But can ask if you have questions and no one else has answers!

Haha, yeah, probably just a pipedream/idealised version of it I have in my head. :lol:



Depends on what tickles your fancy. I like nordic skiing, but at -10 at the lowest. If your impression is only in your head, check youtube for the travel show Departures' episodes: Pushing North, Iceland and Greenland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_D ... s_episodes


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:30 am 
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I like what South Surrey, Abbotsford and North Van have built for youth rugby in their communities......
Rugby is a premier sport for youth in these cities.....

Abbotsford girls youth rugby is simply amazing and rugby Canada should try to visit it to emulate it in other CDN communities...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:31 pm 
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moosehead wrote:
I like what South Surrey, Abbotsford and North Van have built for youth rugby in their communities......
Rugby is a premier sport for youth in these cities.....

Abbotsford girls youth rugby is simply amazing and rugby Canada should try to visit it to emulate it in other CDN communities...


Do you know what makes Abbotsford tick? I thought it was built off a very dedicated high school program.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:13 am 
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Yes, Abbotsford senior highs are big on rugby. All 4 have Jr boys, Sr boys and Girls 9-12 teams.

But the real story is the middle schools. I think all 5 middle schools have both a gr. 7/8 boys and a 7/8 girls team at each school to play in a local league Each of the highschools and each of the middle schools also has a girls 7's team and a boys 7's team(s) that they put in local 7's tournaments.

So basically we have girls that are learning rugby in grade 7- 8 that get to play 5 or 6 years of school rugby before school graduation. These girls also often play in the local girls club team that is also well run.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:30 am 
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There's definitely potential if it can be harnessed. I was at a rugby festival in Fergus, Ontario a few short years ago and the numbers of kids playing was seriously impressive, by anyone's standards.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:51 am 
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moosehead wrote:
Yes, Abbotsford senior highs are big on rugby. All 4 have Jr boys, Sr boys and Girls 9-12 teams.

But the real story is the middle schools. I think all 5 middle schools have both a gr. 7/8 boys and a 7/8 girls team at each school to play in a local league Each of the highschools and each of the middle schools also has a girls 7's team and a boys 7's team(s) that they put in local 7's tournaments.

So basically we have girls that are learning rugby in grade 7- 8 that get to play 5 or 6 years of school rugby before school graduation. These girls also often play in the local girls club team that is also well run.


Whatever they are doing right needs to be seriously looked at and replicated nationally.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:53 am 
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Youth rugby is definitely a huge step forward. I think the next big one (as I always say) is the quality of coaching.

Friends coach in the senior grades at a private school where rugby starts in Gr 4, but even with, a lot of work still needs to happen in Gr 9/10 to get them to a standard where they're competitive with bigger public schools that have more 'athletes' to choose from and very few, if any, who played before Gr 9. Some other schools can get by just bashing away with the bigger bodies and/or giving it to the fast kids.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:54 pm 
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ARC Roster Announced, Justin Blanchet finally gets a call up he could be a good bench backrower, can cover 6 and 7 I believe. Will Kelly is our U20 FH that has been in Wales, and Will Percillier I have been told is probably our SH of the future. Simple put he is awesome and might be our best ever.

Quote:
Canada Roster:

Kyle Baillie – (NOLA Gold/Atlantic Rock) Summerside, PEI
Noah Barker – (Utah Warriors/BC Bears) Courtenay, BC
Ray Barkwill – (Unattached/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
Justin Blanchet – (Bedford Blues) Montreal, QC
Nick Blevins – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
Hubert Buydens – (NOLA Gold/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
Luke Campbell – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
Andrew Coe – (Markham Irish/Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON
Dustin Dobravsky – (Castaway Wanderers/BC Bears) Hanover, Germany
Guiseppe du Toit – (Toronto Arrows/BC Bears) Maple Ridge, BC
Doug Fraser – (Austin Elite/BC Bears) Ladysmith, BC
Ciaran Hearn – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
Eric Howard – (NOLA Gold/Ontario Blues) Ottawa, ON
Cole Keith – (Toronto Arrows/Atlantic Rock) Sussex, NB
Will Kelly – (Dragons/Ontario Blues) Ancaster, ON
Conor Keys – (Rotherham Titans/Atlantic Rock) Stittsville, ON
Ryan Kotlewski – (Westshore RFC/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
Josh Larsen – (Austin Elite) Parskville, BC
Ben LeSage – (UBC Thunderbirds/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Kainoa Lloyd – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Mississauga, ON
Jamie Mackenzie – (Toronto Arrows/Atlantic Rock) Oakville, ON
Pat Parfrey – (Unattached/Atlantic Rock) St. John’s, NL
Nakai Penny – (Seattle Seawolves/BC Bears) Penticton, BC
Will Percillier – (Stade Francais) Mill Bay, BC
Lucas Rumball – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Mississauga, ON
Theo Sauder – (Toronto Arrows/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Djustice Sears-Duru – (Seattle Seawolves/Ontario Blues) Oakville, ON
Mike Sheppard – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Brampton, ON


https://rugby.ca/en/news/2019/01/roster ... st-matches

We will probably see a starting XV of:

1. DSD - Maybe Barker or Buydens
2. Barkwill
3. Keith
4. Larsen
5. Sheppard
6. Baille
7. Rumball - Blanchett will probably start on the bench, he can cover 6 and 7
8. Campbell

9. Mackenzie - will get the chance to lose the jersey to Will
10. Kelly ???? Parfrey will probably get his chance to lose this jersey first
11. Lloyd - Pretty sure the only natural winger in the squad
12. Hearn
13. Coe
14. Fraser ???? No real specialist wingers in this squad, lots of centres though
15. Sauder


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:05 pm 
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CanNZ2000 wrote:
ARC Roster Announced, Justin Blanchet finally gets a call up he could be a good bench backrower, can cover 6 and 7 I believe. Will Kelly is our U20 FH that has been in Wales, and Will Percillier I have been told is probably our SH of the future. Simple put he is awesome and might be our best ever.

Quote:
Canada Roster:

Kyle Baillie – (NOLA Gold/Atlantic Rock) Summerside, PEI
Noah Barker – (Utah Warriors/BC Bears) Courtenay, BC
Ray Barkwill – (Unattached/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
Justin Blanchet – (Bedford Blues) Montreal, QC
Nick Blevins – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
Hubert Buydens – (NOLA Gold/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
Luke Campbell – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
Andrew Coe – (Markham Irish/Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON
Dustin Dobravsky – (Castaway Wanderers/BC Bears) Hanover, Germany
Guiseppe du Toit – (Toronto Arrows/BC Bears) Maple Ridge, BC
Doug Fraser – (Austin Elite/BC Bears) Ladysmith, BC
Ciaran Hearn – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
Eric Howard – (NOLA Gold/Ontario Blues) Ottawa, ON
Cole Keith – (Toronto Arrows/Atlantic Rock) Sussex, NB
Will Kelly – (Dragons/Ontario Blues) Ancaster, ON
Conor Keys – (Rotherham Titans/Atlantic Rock) Stittsville, ON
Ryan Kotlewski – (Westshore RFC/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
Josh Larsen – (Austin Elite) Parskville, BC
Ben LeSage – (UBC Thunderbirds/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Kainoa Lloyd – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Mississauga, ON
Jamie Mackenzie – (Toronto Arrows/Atlantic Rock) Oakville, ON
Pat Parfrey – (Unattached/Atlantic Rock) St. John’s, NL
Nakai Penny – (Seattle Seawolves/BC Bears) Penticton, BC
Will Percillier – (Stade Francais) Mill Bay, BC
Lucas Rumball – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Mississauga, ON
Theo Sauder – (Toronto Arrows/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Djustice Sears-Duru – (Seattle Seawolves/Ontario Blues) Oakville, ON
Mike Sheppard – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Brampton, ON


https://rugby.ca/en/news/2019/01/roster ... st-matches

We will probably see a starting XV of:

1. DSD - Maybe Barker or Buydens
2. Barkwill
3. Keith
4. Larsen
5. Sheppard
6. Baille
7. Rumball - Blanchett will probably start on the bench, he can cover 6 and 7
8. Campbell

9. Mackenzie
10. Kelly ???? Parfrey will probably get his chance to lose this jersey first
11. Lloyd
12. Hearn
13. Coe
14. Fraser ???? No real specialist wingers in this squad, lots of centres though
15. Sauder


It looks to be about six centres on the squad and one winger. I cannot see Coe starting over LeSage. It is time to bring Coe back to XVs before too much 7s ruins the guy. The decision should be Sauder at 10 or 15. Outside of the four uncapped players, it is the same old Canada A team that has lost many games over the past few years. It is good to see Blanchet come over. He gives Canada another option with size in the back row. Baillie owns the #6 shirt right now; he was outstanding in November. But Blanchet should push him. Percillier is a very promising player. He and O'Neill were our best at the U20s last year. The latter has not been able to make the jump yet. Penny has been selected over him. The national team needs desperately to have new blood break through to the squad.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:10 pm 
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canuckles wrote:
CanNZ2000 wrote:
ARC Roster Announced, Justin Blanchet finally gets a call up he could be a good bench backrower, can cover 6 and 7 I believe. Will Kelly is our U20 FH that has been in Wales, and Will Percillier I have been told is probably our SH of the future. Simple put he is awesome and might be our best ever.

Quote:
Canada Roster:

Kyle Baillie – (NOLA Gold/Atlantic Rock) Summerside, PEI
Noah Barker – (Utah Warriors/BC Bears) Courtenay, BC
Ray Barkwill – (Unattached/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
Justin Blanchet – (Bedford Blues) Montreal, QC
Nick Blevins – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
Hubert Buydens – (NOLA Gold/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
Luke Campbell – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
Andrew Coe – (Markham Irish/Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON
Dustin Dobravsky – (Castaway Wanderers/BC Bears) Hanover, Germany
Guiseppe du Toit – (Toronto Arrows/BC Bears) Maple Ridge, BC
Doug Fraser – (Austin Elite/BC Bears) Ladysmith, BC
Ciaran Hearn – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
Eric Howard – (NOLA Gold/Ontario Blues) Ottawa, ON
Cole Keith – (Toronto Arrows/Atlantic Rock) Sussex, NB
Will Kelly – (Dragons/Ontario Blues) Ancaster, ON
Conor Keys – (Rotherham Titans/Atlantic Rock) Stittsville, ON
Ryan Kotlewski – (Westshore RFC/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
Josh Larsen – (Austin Elite) Parskville, BC
Ben LeSage – (UBC Thunderbirds/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Kainoa Lloyd – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Mississauga, ON
Jamie Mackenzie – (Toronto Arrows/Atlantic Rock) Oakville, ON
Pat Parfrey – (Unattached/Atlantic Rock) St. John’s, NL
Nakai Penny – (Seattle Seawolves/BC Bears) Penticton, BC
Will Percillier – (Stade Francais) Mill Bay, BC
Lucas Rumball – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Mississauga, ON
Theo Sauder – (Toronto Arrows/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Djustice Sears-Duru – (Seattle Seawolves/Ontario Blues) Oakville, ON
Mike Sheppard – (Toronto Arrows/Ontario Blues) Brampton, ON


https://rugby.ca/en/news/2019/01/roster ... st-matches

We will probably see a starting XV of:

1. DSD - Maybe Barker or Buydens
2. Barkwill
3. Keith
4. Larsen
5. Sheppard
6. Baille
7. Rumball - Blanchett will probably start on the bench, he can cover 6 and 7
8. Campbell

9. Mackenzie
10. Kelly ???? Parfrey will probably get his chance to lose this jersey first
11. Lloyd
12. Hearn
13. Coe
14. Fraser ???? No real specialist wingers in this squad, lots of centres though
15. Sauder


It looks to be about six centres on the squad and one winger. I cannot see Coe starting over LeSage. It is time to bring Coe back to XVs before too much 7s ruins the guy. The decision should be Sauder at 10 or 15. Outside of the four uncapped players, it is the same old Canada A team that has lost many games over the past few years. It is good to see Blanchet come over. He gives Canada another option with size in the back row. Baillie owns the #6 shirt right now; he was outstanding in November. But Blanchet should push him. Percillier is a very promising player. He and O'Neill were our best at the U20s last year. The latter has not been able to make the jump yet. Penny has been selected over him. The national team needs desperately to have new blood break through to the squad.


I agree about needing new blood and, I think, this is a step in the right direction. Virtually all our starters for the main squad are not here. Baille, Sauder and Rumball probably the only exceptions. Yeah, forgot about LeSage starting over Coe, would agree there. With Will Kelly in the squad, Sauder should be at 15. Blanchett I think will start on the bench and then see how he goes.

New Guys:

Will Kelly
Will Percillier
Justin Blanchet
Naikai Penny - agree about O'Neill missing out, it is a shame

Still New:

Cole Keith
Theo Sauder
Andrew Coe - still very young
Ben LeSage
Noah Barker - could push Buydens or DSD out of the WC squad

Still Useless:

Du Toit - why is he here? Probably the only selection that I would be against.

Other then a young hooker missing out, not sure what else is there to complain about, for a change. Even more important is that two of the new guys are highly rated and overseas and play at positions that have been a problem area for Canada over the past decade.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:30 pm 
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Sauder and 10 and Coe at 15 would look good to me at this year's ARC. Put them out there and see what happens. Sauder is far ahead of Kelly as a player at this time.

Where is Cole Davis? He was on the ARC team last year, scored a couple of trys, and is now not around. Or the young Beukeboom? He was on the ARC team two years ago. Is he still on an academy deal in France? Where is the PEI prop who destroyed the Ontario and the BC tight heads at last years CRC? Jones and his staff clearly do not think Barton is good enough for Canada A. I have not been following things closely. Is Barton starting for Seattle or is he a depth player? I will not name names but a number of players on the squad have been found out to be not good enough for the national team. There are many questions about this year's ARC squad.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:43 pm 
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canuckles wrote:
Sauder and 10 and Coe at 15 would look good to me at this year's ARC. Put them out there and see what happens. Sauder is far ahead of Kelly as a player at this time.

Where is Cole Davis? He was on the ARC team last year, scored a couple of trys, and is now not around. Or the young Beukeboom? He was on the ARC team two years ago. Is he still on an academy deal in France? Where is the PEI prop who destroyed the Ontario and the BC tight heads at last years CRC? Jones and his staff clearly do not think Barton is good enough for Canada A. I have not been following things closely. Is Barton starting for Seattle or is he a depth player? I will not name names but a number of players on the squad have been found out to be not good enough for the national team. There are many questions about this year's ARC squad.


Cole Davis - no idea? Perhaps he turned them down?
Matt Beukeboom is still at Pau and with Tienery - my guess is that they were not released, as far as I understand they are both highly thought of and I believe both training with the big boys. Pretty sure Tienery is and I think Beuks as well.
Barton - struggled to even start at the Seawolves and had some injuruies, might not have been selected or decided to get his pro career back on track.
PEI prop - no idea
Sauder and Coe debate - I have heard that Jones sees Coe as a 13 at this level. Pretty sure Sauder has won the 15 jersey after the November qualifiers. Why move him now? He won't start ahead of McRorie (where is he?) or O'Leary at 10.

I get it, a lot of these guys are not good enough but how many of them would be starters at the NSMT level now? This is a depth squad with introducing new talent at the same time. They should still be able to handle Chile and Brazil.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:30 pm 
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CanNZ2000 wrote:
canuckles wrote:
Sauder and 10 and Coe at 15 would look good to me at this year's ARC. Put them out there and see what happens. Sauder is far ahead of Kelly as a player at this time.

Where is Cole Davis? He was on the ARC team last year, scored a couple of trys, and is now not around. Or the young Beukeboom? He was on the ARC team two years ago. Is he still on an academy deal in France? Where is the PEI prop who destroyed the Ontario and the BC tight heads at last years CRC? Jones and his staff clearly do not think Barton is good enough for Canada A. I have not been following things closely. Is Barton starting for Seattle or is he a depth player? I will not name names but a number of players on the squad have been found out to be not good enough for the national team. There are many questions about this year's ARC squad.


Cole Davis - no idea? Perhaps he turned them down?
Matt Beukeboom is still at Pau and with Tienery - my guess is that they were not released, as far as I understand they are both highly thought of and I believe both training with the big boys. Pretty sure Tienery is and I think Beuks as well.
Barton - struggled to even start at the Seawolves and had some injuruies, might not have been selected or decided to get his pro career back on track.
PEI prop - no idea
Sauder and Coe debate - I have heard that Jones sees Coe as a 13 at this level. Pretty sure Sauder has won the 15 jersey after the November qualifiers. Why move him now? He won't start ahead of McRorie (where is he?) or O'Leary at 10.

I get it, a lot of these guys are not good enough but how many of them would be starters at the NSMT level now? This is a depth squad with introducing new talent at the same time. They should still be able to handle Chile and Brazil.


Jones brought Sauder into the NSMT and put him at #10 against Russia. Now he will drop the idea. Sauder was a winger on the U20s, he could not beat out Coe at #15 on the team, and was a fly at UBC. He is now only a #15? Jones did not even dress O'Leary a couple of months ago; Sauder was his cover at #10. It was the Ontario Blues who put Coe at outside centre. Jones had Coe at fullback in November, 2017, and, I admit, Coe had a rough tour. Coe has been off the national team for over a year. He has to get back to a XVs mindset, and Jones sees him at a position Coe has only played at a provincial level. If Sauder cannot start over McRorie and O'Leary at flyhalf, I cannot see Coe beating out LeSage at #13. Anscombe first put Coe on the wing when the latter made the NSMT. The ARC team needs another wing. I do not want to see Coe at that position.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:41 am 
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CanNZ2000 wrote:
They should still be able to handle Chile and Brazil...


Preparing for an easier re-share, just in case ... :twisted:


I honestly don't give a toss any more, either way. I started the process of preparing for interviews for a couple of 'big' rugby jobs lately and have come to the conclusion that I don't care about the 'pathway', so backed out. I'll just keep doing my damnedest to provide a great experience for the people I coach and be happy with that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:24 am 
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canuckles wrote:
CanNZ2000 wrote:
canuckles wrote:
Sauder and 10 and Coe at 15 would look good to me at this year's ARC. Put them out there and see what happens. Sauder is far ahead of Kelly as a player at this time.

Where is Cole Davis? He was on the ARC team last year, scored a couple of trys, and is now not around. Or the young Beukeboom? He was on the ARC team two years ago. Is he still on an academy deal in France? Where is the PEI prop who destroyed the Ontario and the BC tight heads at last years CRC? Jones and his staff clearly do not think Barton is good enough for Canada A. I have not been following things closely. Is Barton starting for Seattle or is he a depth player? I will not name names but a number of players on the squad have been found out to be not good enough for the national team. There are many questions about this year's ARC squad.


Cole Davis - no idea? Perhaps he turned them down?
Matt Beukeboom is still at Pau and with Tienery - my guess is that they were not released, as far as I understand they are both highly thought of and I believe both training with the big boys. Pretty sure Tienery is and I think Beuks as well.
Barton - struggled to even start at the Seawolves and had some injuruies, might not have been selected or decided to get his pro career back on track.
PEI prop - no idea
Sauder and Coe debate - I have heard that Jones sees Coe as a 13 at this level. Pretty sure Sauder has won the 15 jersey after the November qualifiers. Why move him now? He won't start ahead of McRorie (where is he?) or O'Leary at 10.

I get it, a lot of these guys are not good enough but how many of them would be starters at the NSMT level now? This is a depth squad with introducing new talent at the same time. They should still be able to handle Chile and Brazil.


Jones brought Sauder into the NSMT and put him at #10 against Russia. Now he will drop the idea. Sauder was a winger on the U20s, he could not beat out Coe at #15 on the team, and was a fly at UBC. He is now only a #15? Jones did not even dress O'Leary a couple of months ago; Sauder was his cover at #10. It was the Ontario Blues who put Coe at outside centre. Jones had Coe at fullback in November, 2017, and, I admit, Coe had a rough tour. Coe has been off the national team for over a year. He has to get back to a XVs mindset, and Jones sees him at a position Coe has only played at a provincial level. If Sauder cannot start over McRorie and O'Leary at flyhalf, I cannot see Coe beating out LeSage at #13. Anscombe first put Coe on the wing when the latter made the NSMT. The ARC team needs another wing. I do not want to see Coe at that position.


Apparently Coe has been brought into the squad as an 'outside back.' Sounds like he will start on the wing. Who knows, depending on how other guys go we might see him at 15.

Sauder has grown into the 15 jersey, he should start there. From what I have heard Ontario did start the ball rolling with Coe at 13 and Jones has liked it or what he has seen. You are right, LeSage should start at 13. With only one winger, it means Coe will probably start on the wing. Not saying I want to see him there either, but going by what they have picked. We always complain about RC not adjusting to how guys grow after the U20s. Coe may have been better then Sauder at that position before but things have changed. Mostly due to Coe's decisions.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:41 pm 
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Saw this on another thread: which squad is better, now or the 2017 one? Interesting question. Not sure. I would say the forwards are about equal by the 2019 backs are better. A lot of the young forwards were brought in about a year or two early IMO. Would be great to have them now.

2017 squad:

Ray Barkwill
George Barton
Nick Blevins
Matt Beukeboom
Rob Brouwer
Gradyn Bowd
Admir Cejvanovic
Liam Chisholm
Eric Howard
Conor Keys
Cole Keith
Ryan Kotlewski
Phil Mack
Rory McDonell
Gordon McRorie
Dan Moor
Oliver Nott
Reegan O’Gorman
Clay Panga
Pat Parfrey
Taylor Paris
Benoit Piffero
Carl Pocock
Robbie Povey
Lucas Rumball
Djustice Sears -Duru
Brock Staller
Matt Tierney
Conor Trainor


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:16 pm 
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Done some thinking, for the first ARC match, I would like to see:

1. Barker
2. Howard
3. Keith
4. Larsen
5. Sheppard
6. Blanchet
7. Rumball
8. Baille

9. Mackenzie
10. Kelly
11. Lloyd
12. Hearn
13. LeSage
14. Coe
15. Sauder

Obviously, I am going by who was selected to the squad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:46 pm 
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CanNZ2000 wrote:
Done some thinking, for the first ARC match, I would like to see:

1. Barker
2. Howard
3. Keith
4. Larsen
5. Sheppard
6. Blanchet
7. Rumball
8. Baille

9. Mackenzie
10. Kelly
11. Lloyd
12. Hearn
13. LeSage
14. Coe
15. Sauder

Obviously, I am going by who was selected to the squad.


Baillie was our best player, not just forward, in November. Why move him? Buydens and DSD were fine during the Repechage, keep going with them. Was Keith not a #1 at U20? Why was he moved? We probably need a young loosehead now. Jones has likely being talking with Newport Academy about Kelly; he has likely not seen the young man play. I would be shocked if Kelly starts, but nothing Rugby Canada does surprises me. What your previous post indicates is how many of our U20s seem to come and go. I think O'Gorman is playing club rugby in NZ. He is sticking with it. So many of our young guys have to get on with their lives. I think Lachlan Currie is making the switch to hooker; he is with Ilnicki in Yorkshire. Canadian rugby needs these guys to stay with the sport. Some guys max out at 20, but some players have to give up the game too soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:44 pm 
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I hope Currie makes a good transition and does well. We really need someone to step up at 2 and claim the spot.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:41 pm 
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I’ve accepted that Barkwill is first option for now, but his replacements need to be a priority. I hope RC has 3-5 young players on the radar and a development plan.

Blevins and Parfrey are too old and too marginal to still be getting caps. The admins should have one eye on 2019 and one in 2023 right now. Other than players who are clearly first choice at their positions like Mack, nobody over 26 should be part of the RWC squad.

That may mean overlooking loyal vets like Blevins who helped us qualify, but RC can’t afford the luxury of veteran role players at this time. We should have one of the youngest teams at the World Cup.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:54 pm 
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OttawaKat wrote:
I’ve accepted that Barkwill is first option for now, but his replacements need to be a priority. I hope RC has 3-5 young players on the radar and a development plan.

Blevins and Parfrey are too old and too marginal to still be getting caps. The admins should have one eye on 2019 and one in 2023 right now. Other than players who are clearly first choice at their positions like Mack, nobody over 26 should be part of the RWC squad.

That may mean overlooking loyal vets like Blevins who helped us qualify, but RC can’t afford the luxury of veteran role players at this time. We should have one of the youngest teams at the World Cup.


I think Barkwill and Parfrey are being paid by RC to train and play for the NSMT. They have their spots, one of the problems with centralization. Someone has to beat out Barkwill for the position, and no hooker in Canada has been able to do it.

I was sent an email saying Cole Davis is now with the 7s. WTF? He is already built like a pro winger. You send guys over to 7s when they have shown to be not good enough for XVs. Rugby Canada and McGrath are probably going to make Davis a 7s prop. There is the switch of players: Coe to XVs and Davis to 7s. The NSMT did the job at the repechage, and Rugby Canada is still on the World Rugby gravy train. Nothing is going to change, and I think we all know it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:32 pm 
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Just bought my Arrows seasons tickets!! Excited!

4 games at York Alumni stadium in April, 4 games at Lamport stadium in May and June. HOpefully playoffs after that!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:33 pm 
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Morgan14 wrote:
Just bought my Arrows seasons tickets!! Excited!

4 games at York Alumni stadium in April, 4 games at Lamport stadium in May and June. HOpefully playoffs after that!



What did that cost you?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:35 pm 
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$200 pp - $800 in total in my case. Although I suspect my kids will not be able to make half the games owing to conflicts


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Morgan14 wrote:
$200 pp - $800 in total in my case. Although I suspect my kids will not be able to make half the games owing to conflicts



no discount for kids (or are yours too old)?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm 
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hornets wrote:
Morgan14 wrote:
$200 pp - $800 in total in my case. Although I suspect my kids will not be able to make half the games owing to conflicts



no discount for kids (or are yours too old)?



I don't think there are discounts for kids. But that's ok, I figure I'll be taking friends, others, etc. along to various games, so good to have the optionality.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:57 pm 
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Morgan14 wrote:
$200 pp - $800 in total in my case. Although I suspect my kids will not be able to make half the games owing to conflicts


Good on you mate! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I would have purchased them too if I, unfortunately, lived in the Toronto area.


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