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 Post subject: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:07 am 
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Did they get cited for the red cards, or have I missed it? Haven't seen it mentioned, or was the sending off sufficient penalty?


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:20 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
Did they get cited for the red cards, or have I missed it? Haven't seen it mentioned, or was the sending off sufficient penalty?


both will face disciplinary hearing the next 2 days.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:05 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
Did they get cited for the red cards, or have I missed it? Haven't seen it mentioned, or was the sending off sufficient penalty?

the sending off will not, IMHO, but sufficient punishment. Both of them mindless and stupid


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:09 am 
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Greg Pleasants-Tates hands in the air,slow motion collapse after the Snyman shoulder was pretty sweet. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:34 am 
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3 matches should do for Naholo. Enough to keep him from playing the Crusaders, while still being available for the All Blacks.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:40 am 
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mrbrownstone wrote:
3 matches should do for Naholo. Enough to keep him from playing the Crusaders, while still being available for the All Blacks.


How convenient. I would prefer an apology from the match officials, and his freedom to face the Force.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:23 am 
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Naholo gets a one week ban, Snyman gets a 4 week ban. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, maybe because Naholos act was a split second connection in a collision, whereas Snyman charged in and could have entered the ruck with a bit more discipline.

No doubt there will be accusations of the judiciary favouring Kiwi players....and a call for armbands.

Snymans act prolly cost the Bulls the match, so I guess his team mates were pretty pissed off with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:30 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
Naholo gets a one week ban, Snyman gets a 4 week ban. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, maybe because Naholos act was a split second connection in a collision, whereas Snyman charged in and could have entered the ruck with a bit more discipline.

No doubt there will be accusations of the judiciary favouring Kiwi players....and a call for armbands.

Snymans act prolly cost the Bulls the match, so I guess his team mates were pretty pissed off with him.

Nahalo entered an early guilty plea.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:35 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
Naholo gets a one week ban, Snyman gets a 4 week ban. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, maybe because Naholos act was a split second connection in a collision, whereas Snyman charged in and could have entered the ruck with a bit more discipline.

No doubt there will be accusations of the judiciary favouring Kiwi players....and a call for armbands.

Snymans act prolly cost the Bulls the match, so I guess his team mates were pretty pissed off with him.


Fair call. Snyman's was a full-on shoulder charge to the head of the opposing player and probably much more dangerous, Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous

RG Snyman

Naholo


Last edited by Jensrsa on Tue May 16, 2017 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:35 am 
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The Native wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Naholo gets a one week ban, Snyman gets a 4 week ban. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, maybe because Naholos act was a split second connection in a collision, whereas Snyman charged in and could have entered the ruck with a bit more discipline.

No doubt there will be accusations of the judiciary favouring Kiwi players....and a call for armbands.

Snymans act prolly cost the Bulls the match, so I guess his team mates were pretty pissed off with him.

Nahalo entered an early guilty plea.


Snyman too


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:17 am 
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Jensrsa wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Naholo gets a one week ban, Snyman gets a 4 week ban. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, maybe because Naholos act was a split second connection in a collision, whereas Snyman charged in and could have entered the ruck with a bit more discipline.

No doubt there will be accusations of the judiciary favouring Kiwi players....and a call for armbands.

Snymans act prolly cost the Bulls the match, so I guess his team mates were pretty pissed off with him.


Fair call. Snyman's was a full-on shoulder charge to the head of the opposing player and probably much more dangerous, Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous

RG Snyman

Naholo


This.

One was intentional and the other marginally so.

Also, one player was prone and not moving, the other incident they were both arguably competing for the ball.

It's a no-brainer that there's a discrepancy.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:20 am 
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SilverGrin wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Naholo gets a one week ban, Snyman gets a 4 week ban. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, maybe because Naholos act was a split second connection in a collision, whereas Snyman charged in and could have entered the ruck with a bit more discipline.

No doubt there will be accusations of the judiciary favouring Kiwi players....and a call for armbands.

Snymans act prolly cost the Bulls the match, so I guess his team mates were pretty pissed off with him.


Fair call. Snyman's was a full-on shoulder charge to the head of the opposing player and probably much more dangerous, Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous

RG Snyman

Naholo


This.

One was intentional and the other marginally so.

Also, one player was prone and not moving, the other incident they were both arguably competing for the ball.

It's a no-brainer that there's a discrepancy.


While I agree, Naholo's victim ended up in a worse state.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:25 am 
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Jensrsa wrote:
Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous



Rubbish.

Just think to yourself what would have happened if he HAD caught the ball - it's a dangerous shoulder charge either way. No attempt to make a legal tackle. Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player.

Referee and TMO got them both spot on.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:32 am 
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Kid A wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous



No attempt to make a legal tackle. Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player.


Bollocks. He had shifted his weight from looking to attempt a tackle, to stretching an arm out for the ball. His eyes were on the ball and he then braced for contact. Dangerous connection, no issue even with the red. But it was far from 'Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player'.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:33 am 
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Nah


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:37 am 
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Kid A wrote:
Nah


It's all visible in the front on replay of Naholo. But your still shows it better :roll:

Seems South African fans as well as the judiciary agree with my take on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:41 am 
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mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Nah


It's all visible in the front on replay of Naholo. But your still shows it better :roll:

Seems South African fans as well as the judiciary agree with my take on it.


Another game another ref it might have been a yellow or even a penalty only


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:43 am 
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mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Nah


It's all visible in the front on replay of Naholo. But your still shows it better :roll:

Seems South African fans as well as the judiciary agree with my take on it.


He tackled someone's face with his shoulder.

That's all there is to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:48 am 
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Kid A wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Nah


It's all visible in the front on replay of Naholo. But your still shows it better :roll:

Seems South African fans as well as the judiciary agree with my take on it.


He tackled someone's face with his shoulder.

That's all there is to it.


I don't think anyone argues that he shouldn't have been punished, cited and banned, merely that there is a vast difference between his transgression and that of snyman and the difference in bans is warranted


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:48 am 
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Kid A wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Nah


It's all visible in the front on replay of Naholo. But your still shows it better :roll:

Seems South African fans as well as the judiciary agree with my take on it.


He tackled someone's face with his shoulder.

That's all there is to it.


You don't wish to entertain the reasons for why the contact was made. Instead you see it very simply as shoulder on head = red. I do agree with the card and the sanction. I also have empathy for how the game is played at a fast pace, and when a player is chasing the BALL in fine margins, accidental and nasty collisions can take place.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:51 am 
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mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Nah


It's all visible in the front on replay of Naholo. But your still shows it better :roll:

Seems South African fans as well as the judiciary agree with my take on it.


He tackled someone's face with his shoulder.

That's all there is to it.


You don't wish to entertain the reasons for why the contact was made. Instead you see it very simply as shoulder on head = red. I do agree with the card and the sanction. I also have empathy for how the game is played at a fast pace, and when a player is chasing the BALL in fine margins, accidental and nasty collisions can take place.


As I said, if the attacker had caught the ball, what would have happenned? What was Naholo trying to achieve?


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:53 am 
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Kid A wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Nah


It's all visible in the front on replay of Naholo. But your still shows it better :roll:

Seems South African fans as well as the judiciary agree with my take on it.


He tackled someone's face with his shoulder.

That's all there is to it.


You don't wish to entertain the reasons for why the contact was made. Instead you see it very simply as shoulder on head = red. I do agree with the card and the sanction. I also have empathy for how the game is played at a fast pace, and when a player is chasing the BALL in fine margins, accidental and nasty collisions can take place.


As I said, if the attacker had caught the ball, what would have happenned? What was Naholo trying to achieve?


A heavy front on tackle? Seen plenty of them before. As you saw, the ball popped right and Naholo lunged for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:55 am 
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mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:

A heavy front on tackle? Seen plenty of them before. As you saw, the ball popped right and Naholo lunged for it.


He lunges (fair enough). The drops his shoulder (needless and reckless).


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:58 am 
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Kid A wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:

A heavy front on tackle? Seen plenty of them before. As you saw, the ball popped right and Naholo lunged for it.


He lunges (fair enough). The drops his shoulder (needless and reckless).


It's unnatural not to brace for impact.

At least you're moving on from your initial post.

Kid A wrote:
Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player.


That's exactly what the Bulls lock did.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:05 pm 
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mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Kid A wrote:

A heavy front on tackle? Seen plenty of them before. As you saw, the ball popped right and Naholo lunged for it.


He lunges (fair enough). The drops his shoulder (needless and reckless).


It's unnatural not to brace for impact.

At least you're moving on from your initial post.

Kid A wrote:
Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player.


That's exactly what the Bulls lock did.


Alright man. We won't agree on this. No point in wasting time.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:12 pm 
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:thumbup: Even though I think you're a little out on your own with this one.

Good thing is it's still sanctioned. I don't agree with Jensra that another ref may have just penalised.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:18 pm 
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I agree with Mr Bungle.

On another day it was a yellow card.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:35 am 
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Kid A wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous



Rubbish.

Just think to yourself what would have happened if he HAD caught the ball - it's a dangerous shoulder charge either way. No attempt to make a legal tackle. Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player.

Referee and TMO got them both spot on.

Image


Different camera angle tells a different story. Note Naholo is coming from the 15m line

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:52 am 
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mr bungle wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Naholo gets a one week ban, Snyman gets a 4 week ban. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, maybe because Naholos act was a split second connection in a collision, whereas Snyman charged in and could have entered the ruck with a bit more discipline.

No doubt there will be accusations of the judiciary favouring Kiwi players....and a call for armbands.

Snymans act prolly cost the Bulls the match, so I guess his team mates were pretty pissed off with him.


Fair call. Snyman's was a full-on shoulder charge to the head of the opposing player and probably much more dangerous, Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous

RG Snyman

Naholo


This.

One was intentional and the other marginally so.

Also, one player was prone and not moving, the other incident they were both arguably competing for the ball.

It's a no-brainer that there's a discrepancy.


While I agree, Naholo's victim ended up in a worse state.
hmmmm you sure? Pleasant-Tate has gone home & is missing the Farce game due to a neck injury from the Snyman shoulder


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:53 am 
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swc wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Naholo gets a one week ban, Snyman gets a 4 week ban. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, maybe because Naholos act was a split second connection in a collision, whereas Snyman charged in and could have entered the ruck with a bit more discipline.

No doubt there will be accusations of the judiciary favouring Kiwi players....and a call for armbands.

Snymans act prolly cost the Bulls the match, so I guess his team mates were pretty pissed off with him.


Fair call. Snyman's was a full-on shoulder charge to the head of the opposing player and probably much more dangerous, Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous

RG Snyman

Naholo


This.

One was intentional and the other marginally so.

Also, one player was prone and not moving, the other incident they were both arguably competing for the ball.

It's a no-brainer that there's a discrepancy.


While I agree, Naholo's victim ended up in a worse state.
hmmmm you sure? Pleasant-Tate has gone home & is missing the Farce game due to a neck injury from the Snyman shoulder


That's no good. I was referencing from how both players visibly looked after each collision.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:40 am 
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Jensrsa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous



Rubbish.

Just think to yourself what would have happened if he HAD caught the ball - it's a dangerous shoulder charge either way. No attempt to make a legal tackle. Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player.

Referee and TMO got them both spot on.

Image


Different camera angle tells a different story. Note Naholo is coming from the 15m line

Image


Those are both premeditated acts of dangerous foul play. Hope they both get lengthy bans.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:15 am 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:26 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous



Rubbish.

Just think to yourself what would have happened if he HAD caught the ball - it's a dangerous shoulder charge either way. No attempt to make a legal tackle. Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player.

Referee and TMO got them both spot on.

Image


Agree with the card and the sanction for Naholo. However, how do you "premeditate" a collision that happens in a split second. This is a collision sport, and collisions happen.

Different camera angle tells a different story. Note Naholo is coming from the 15m line

Image


Those are both premeditated acts of dangerous foul play. Hope they both get lengthy bans.


Agree with the card and the sanction for Naholo. However, how do you "premeditate" a collision that happens in a split second. This is a collision sport, and collisions happen. Two moving bodies competing for the same space is going to result in contact. Reactions in that case are instinctive. The outcome is unfortunate, but can't always be avoided.

Injuries are not always the result of foul play.

Even Snymans act, while a little bit stupid on his part (the ball was already won), are no different to hundreds of ruck entries we see every game.....except he didn't involve his arms. Had he done so he prolly would have only been penalised, if that.

People are too quick to jump on the "premeditated" horse.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:31 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Naholo's was little more than a block, clumsy but nowhere near as dangerous



Rubbish.

Just think to yourself what would have happened if he HAD caught the ball - it's a dangerous shoulder charge either way. No attempt to make a legal tackle. Every attempt to go in high and dangerous with the upper part of the body into the head of a player.

Referee and TMO got them both spot on.

Image


Agree with the card and the sanction for Naholo. However, how do you "premeditate" a collision that happens in a split second. This is a collision sport, and collisions happen.

Different camera angle tells a different story. Note Naholo is coming from the 15m line

Image


Those are both premeditated acts of dangerous foul play. Hope they both get lengthy bans.


Agree with the card and the sanction for Naholo. However, how do you "premeditate" a collision that happens in a split second. This is a collision sport, and collisions happen. Two moving bodies competing for the same space is going to result in contact. Reactions in that case are instinctive. The outcome is unfortunate, but can't always be avoided.

Injuries are not always the result of foul play.

Even Snymans act, while a little bit stupid on his part (the ball was already won), are no different to hundreds of ruck entries we see every game.....except he didn't involve his arms. Had he done so he prolly would have only been penalised, if that.

People are too quick to jump on the "premeditated" horse.


So why do you agree with the red card if you think it was an unfortunate accident?


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:36 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
Agree with the card and the sanction for Naholo. However, how do you "premeditate" a collision that happens in a split second. This is a collision sport, and collisions happen. Two moving bodies competing for the same space is going to result in contact. Reactions in that case are instinctive. The outcome is unfortunate, but can't always be avoided.

Injuries are not always the result of foul play.

Even Snymans act, while a little bit stupid on his part (the ball was already won), are no different to hundreds of ruck entries we see every game.....except he didn't involve his arms. Had he done so he prolly would have only been penalised, if that.

People are too quick to jump on the "premeditated" horse.


Ask any rugby player or boxer or any sportsman in any fast moving sport. Ice hockey ...
The better ones have even more time.

Both Naholo and Snyman went out to hammer the other guy into oblivion. IMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:38 am 
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They have made it pretty clear that the head is sacrosanct, accidental or not. Just like contact in the air. Penalties and cards will follow.

I'm surprised the guy who got hit by Naholo continued to play. They seem to be sending them off for HIA pretty quickly these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:44 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
They have made it pretty clear that the head is sacrosanct, accidental or not. .


I'm not aware the powers that me have said that an accidental knock to the head means someone has to get sent off.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:45 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Agree with the card and the sanction for Naholo. However, how do you "premeditate" a collision that happens in a split second. This is a collision sport, and collisions happen. Two moving bodies competing for the same space is going to result in contact. Reactions in that case are instinctive. The outcome is unfortunate, but can't always be avoided.

Injuries are not always the result of foul play.

Even Snymans act, while a little bit stupid on his part (the ball was already won), are no different to hundreds of ruck entries we see every game.....except he didn't involve his arms. Had he done so he prolly would have only been penalised, if that.

People are too quick to jump on the "premeditated" horse.


Ask any rugby player or boxer or any sportsman in any fast moving sport. Ice hockey ...
The better ones have even more time.

Both Naholo and Snyman went out to hammer the other guy into oblivion. IMHO.


Rubbish. Naholo could have altered his line and hit the other guy much harder. A glancing blow is not "hammering the other guy into oblivion.

As for Snyman, forwards are trained to hit rucks hard, and do so every game. The point is to effect a turnover with counter rucking. He got it quite wrong on this occasion, and paid the penalty...it cost his team the game I reckon....because the try was disallowed and I doubt the Landers would have come back from there. His penalty comes from being a bit reckless in what he is trained to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:49 am 
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That Snyman one is not "a bit reckless". It's extremely irresponsible and deserves a good few weeks rest.

The Naholo one is less premeditated but still he drops the shoulder recklessly when he realises he can't get to the ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Naholo and Snyman...
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 14479
Kid A wrote:
That Snyman one is not "a bit reckless". It's extremely irresponsible and deserves a good few weeks rest.

The Naholo one is less premeditated but still he drops the shoulder recklessly when he realises he can't get to the ball.


Snyman's is dangerous, deliberate and downright dirty

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