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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:39 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:

Are you really saying that in a market of finate amounts new entrants any buyers aren't increasing the value? And that if people sold and left the system the opposite wouldn't happen.


You buying $1 worth of BTC from me doesn't increase it's value. It simply means that a trade has occurred. There is inherent fungibility in BTC.



That doesn't really address my point about more new entrants making owning a finate number of something more expensive.


Scarcity should increase it's price as new adopters purchase it yes however you need to take into account that a bitcoin is divisible to a millionth i.e. a satoshi. So currently there are approximately 1,665,000,000,000,000 satoshi's in circulation. Ultimately, these will be more widely available as individual units. New adopters are basically buying quantities of satoshi's not whole bitcoins. We're still at the base of the adoption curve.



splitting it into smaller units to get more buyers doesn't really change its economics.


Except it's always been in smaller units. We've always bought satoshi's.

The world has changed and some will be left behind. It has always been thus.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Bitcoin won't leave anyone behind just yet. I also seriously doubt that the worlds governments will allow their currencies to be made irrelevant and have their tax base "left behind".


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:52 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:

You buying $1 worth of BTC from me doesn't increase it's value. It simply means that a trade has occurred. There is inherent fungibility in BTC.



That doesn't really address my point about more new entrants making owning a finate number of something more expensive.


Scarcity should increase it's price as new adopters purchase it yes however you need to take into account that a bitcoin is divisible to a millionth i.e. a satoshi. So currently there are approximately 1,665,000,000,000,000 satoshi's in circulation. Ultimately, these will be more widely available as individual units. New adopters are basically buying quantities of satoshi's not whole bitcoins. We're still at the base of the adoption curve.



splitting it into smaller units to get more buyers doesn't really change its economics.


Except it's always been in smaller units. We've always bought satoshi's.

The world has changed and some will be left behind. It has always been thus.


Wanna buy an electron ? €10 each.
I''ll send it to you enclosed in a 1 cent coin.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:16 am 
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Or you could send a piece of paper that states its worth €10. But it's just a piece of paper./polymer.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:46 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Or you could send a piece of paper that states its worth €10. But it's just a piece of paper./polymer.


Yep. Provided of course you believe it as does the person you're trading with.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:49 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Bitcoin won't leave anyone behind just yet. I also seriously doubt that the worlds governments will allow their currencies to be made irrelevant and have their tax base "left behind".


We are the government's, the government's are us.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:01 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Bitcoin won't leave anyone behind just yet. I also seriously doubt that the worlds governments will allow their currencies to be made irrelevant and have their tax base "left behind".


Bitcoin won't be replacing the fiat currencies. At least not in its current form. Neither will any of them in my opinion. They are more commodities than viable alternatives to legal tender at this stage thanks largely to the caps placed on them. At present the total supply of Bitcoin is capped at 21m. They'd have to amend that figure in order to maintain supply which could have differing effects depending on how they go about it. Either slowly in order to maintaining its overall value or rapidly which would likely crash it.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:12 am 
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sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Bitcoin won't leave anyone behind just yet. I also seriously doubt that the worlds governments will allow their currencies to be made irrelevant and have their tax base "left behind".


We are the government's, the government's are us.



Meaningless.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:13 am 
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Working Class Rugger wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Bitcoin won't leave anyone behind just yet. I also seriously doubt that the worlds governments will allow their currencies to be made irrelevant and have their tax base "left behind".


Bitcoin won't be replacing the fiat currencies. At least not in its current form. Neither will any of them in my opinion. They are more commodities than viable alternatives to legal tender at this stage thanks largely to the caps placed on them. At present the total supply of Bitcoin is capped at 21m. They'd have to amend that figure in order to maintain supply which could have differing effects depending on how they go about it. Either slowly in order to maintaining its overall value or rapidly which would likely crash it.



The total supply figure going up destroys its integrity slowly or quickly.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:22 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Bitcoin won't leave anyone behind just yet. I also seriously doubt that the worlds governments will allow their currencies to be made irrelevant and have their tax base "left behind".


Bitcoin won't be replacing the fiat currencies. At least not in its current form. Neither will any of them in my opinion. They are more commodities than viable alternatives to legal tender at this stage thanks largely to the caps placed on them. At present the total supply of Bitcoin is capped at 21m. They'd have to amend that figure in order to maintain supply which could have differing effects depending on how they go about it. Either slowly in order to maintaining its overall value or rapidly which would likely crash it.



The total supply figure going up destroys its integrity slowly or quickly.


Most likely, yes. But for it to realistically become the 'future of money' it needs to increase supply. A cap of 21m units is just not enough for it to ever be seriously in contention to replace our current systems. Otherwise, it needs to accept that in reality it's a commodities based instrument.

That's just my take. I'm not someone who see's the true value of the technology existing in the crpytocurrency side of the equation anyway. I tend to believe the blockchain and the raft of potential application possible is where the true value lies.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:35 am 
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Working Class Rugger wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Bitcoin won't leave anyone behind just yet. I also seriously doubt that the worlds governments will allow their currencies to be made irrelevant and have their tax base "left behind".


Bitcoin won't be replacing the fiat currencies. At least not in its current form. Neither will any of them in my opinion. They are more commodities than viable alternatives to legal tender at this stage thanks largely to the caps placed on them. At present the total supply of Bitcoin is capped at 21m. They'd have to amend that figure in order to maintain supply which could have differing effects depending on how they go about it. Either slowly in order to maintaining its overall value or rapidly which would likely crash it.



The total supply figure going up destroys its integrity slowly or quickly.


Most likely, yes. But for it to realistically become the 'future of money' it needs to increase supply. A cap of 21m units is just not enough for it to ever be seriously in contention to replace our current systems. Otherwise, it needs to accept that in reality it's a commodities based instrument.

That's just my take. I'm not someone who see's the true value of the technology existing in the crpytocurrency side of the equation anyway. I tend to believe the blockchain and the raft of potential application possible is where the true value lies.


The 21m cap doesn't matter, as mentioned above BTC can be divided into as small a unit as needed. You can just as well say the cap is 2.1 quadrillion Satoshi's. The whole network could function on a single bitcoin.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:15 am 
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KiwiFlyer wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Bitcoin won't leave anyone behind just yet. I also seriously doubt that the worlds governments will allow their currencies to be made irrelevant and have their tax base "left behind".


Bitcoin won't be replacing the fiat currencies. At least not in its current form. Neither will any of them in my opinion. They are more commodities than viable alternatives to legal tender at this stage thanks largely to the caps placed on them. At present the total supply of Bitcoin is capped at 21m. They'd have to amend that figure in order to maintain supply which could have differing effects depending on how they go about it. Either slowly in order to maintaining its overall value or rapidly which would likely crash it.



The total supply figure going up destroys its integrity slowly or quickly.


Most likely, yes. But for it to realistically become the 'future of money' it needs to increase supply. A cap of 21m units is just not enough for it to ever be seriously in contention to replace our current systems. Otherwise, it needs to accept that in reality it's a commodities based instrument.

That's just my take. I'm not someone who see's the true value of the technology existing in the crpytocurrency side of the equation anyway. I tend to believe the blockchain and the raft of potential application possible is where the true value lies.


The 21m cap doesn't matter, as mentioned above BTC can be divided into as small a unit as needed. You can just as well say the cap is 2.1 quadrillion Satoshi's. The whole network could function on a single bitcoin.


I know that you can divide BTC up into fractions of a coin. But that in itself has its own issues. To match the more than $4 trillion dollars of currency currently in circulation at current prices would have divide the overall value by a sizeable factor.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:26 am 
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Quote:
know that you can divide BTC up into fractions of a coin. But that in itself has its own issues. To match the more than $4 trillion dollars of currency currently in circulation at current prices would have divide the overall value by a sizeable factor.



And you'd still have to convince 500 people to sell theirs, surely they'd just hold on and be richer than Bezos.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:30 am 
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Quote:
Most likely, yes. But for it to realistically become the 'future of money' it needs to increase supply. A cap of 21m units is just not enough for it to ever be seriously in contention to replace our current systems. Otherwise, it needs to accept that in reality it's a commodities based instrument.

That's just my take. I'm not someone who see's the true value of the technology existing in the crpytocurrency side of the equation anyway. I tend to believe the blockchain and the raft of potential application possible is where the true value lies.


If you're right about the block chain tech (and I think you are), then the commodity value of Bit coins diminishes , it you believe it's a currency for the globe or bust right now.

Plus the computing power that created / controls it now will be super seeded. The tech will be hacked.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:32 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
know that you can divide BTC up into fractions of a coin. But that in itself has its own issues. To match the more than $4 trillion dollars of currency currently in circulation at current prices would have divide the overall value by a sizeable factor.



And you'd still have to convince 500 people to sell theirs, surely they'd just hold on and be richer than Bezos.


That and a range of other issues.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:32 am 
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BTC has always been divided into satoshi's. To be fair you sound like my father-in-law who has been a stock trader for 50 years and a gold bug. He simply can't or won't get his head around crypto.

What is your take on other cryptocurrencies/tokens like XRP, then Bimbo?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:35 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Most likely, yes. But for it to realistically become the 'future of money' it needs to increase supply. A cap of 21m units is just not enough for it to ever be seriously in contention to replace our current systems. Otherwise, it needs to accept that in reality it's a commodities based instrument.

That's just my take. I'm not someone who see's the true value of the technology existing in the crpytocurrency side of the equation anyway. I tend to believe the blockchain and the raft of potential application possible is where the true value lies.


If you're right about the block chain tech (and I think you are), then the commodity value of Bit coins diminishes , it you believe it's a currency for the globe or bust right now.

Plus the computing power that created / controls it now will be super seeded. The tech will be hacked.


Apparently they'll overcome much of these issues by moving to 'proof of stake' and transactions ratification in the future. At present in order to hack the system you need to control 51% of the nodes within the network. Groups have come close in the past but have willing forked in order not to be in that position.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:44 am 
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sorCrer wrote:
BTC has always been divided into satoshi's. To be fair you sound like my father-in-law who has been a stock trader for 50 years and a gold bug. He simply can't or won't get his head around crypto.

What is your take on other cryptocurrencies/tokens like XRP, then Bimbo?


I'm all for the concept of cryptocurrencies as a move toward a more universal currency system but I just cannot see any in their current guises assuming the mantle without significant restructures. Breaking it into Satoshi's has other issues. One Satoshi equals .00000001 BTC and requires 100m of them to equal one. So at the current prices 1 Satoshi is worth .00007c.

I like the ideas around Ethereum. Particularly smart contracts.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:47 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Plus the computing power that created / controls it now will be super seeded. The tech will be hacked.


I'd suggest you do some reading on SHA-256 and how public key, private key encryption works. Also, reads into the reasons why this is not of a concern to the Bitcoin network. In fact, if you use a new address for every transaction trying to break the encryption get's even more complicated.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:49 am 
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Working Class Rugger wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
BTC has always been divided into satoshi's. To be fair you sound like my father-in-law who has been a stock trader for 50 years and a gold bug. He simply can't or won't get his head around crypto.

What is your take on other cryptocurrencies/tokens like XRP, then Bimbo?


I'm all for the concept of cryptocurrencies as a move toward a more universal currency system but I just cannot see any in their current guises assuming the mantle without significant restructures. Breaking it into Satoshi's has other issues. One Satoshi equals .00000001 BTC and requires 100m of them to equal one. So at the current prices 1 Satoshi is worth .00007c.

I like the ideas around Ethereum. Particularly smart contracts.


I've messing around with smart contracts at the moment.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:52 am 
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sorCrer wrote:
BTC has always been divided into satoshi's. To be fair you sound like my father-in-law who has been a stock trader for 50 years and a gold bug. He simply can't or won't get his head around crypto.

What is your take on other cryptocurrencies/tokens like XRP, then Bimbo?



I'll take that as a complement if he succeeded for 50'years in the market.


I think that these currencies are and can be created with enough will. And it's not like I don't believe the tech I absolutely believe the tech, which is why I believe there's a value of exchangeable coins, though the idea isn't at all new (chit chats have existed for millennia).

The tech though will be broken, the success as a commodity needs rarity (for purpose ) or success as a currency needs the opposite. So at the moment I'm happy to be "left behind" owning ISA , property and having a job (we'll sort of Job).


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:54 am 
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sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Plus the computing power that created / controls it now will be super seeded. The tech will be hacked.


I'd suggest you do some reading on SHA-256 and how public key, private key encryption works. Also, reads into the reasons why this is not of a concern to the Bitcoin network. In fact, if you use a new address for every transaction trying to break the encryption get's even more complicated.



I was guided on here to look at quantum computing last week, the encryption won't help eventually.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:18 am 
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sorCrer wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
BTC has always been divided into satoshi's. To be fair you sound like my father-in-law who has been a stock trader for 50 years and a gold bug. He simply can't or won't get his head around crypto.

What is your take on other cryptocurrencies/tokens like XRP, then Bimbo?


I'm all for the concept of cryptocurrencies as a move toward a more universal currency system but I just cannot see any in their current guises assuming the mantle without significant restructures. Breaking it into Satoshi's has other issues. One Satoshi equals .00000001 BTC and requires 100m of them to equal one. So at the current prices 1 Satoshi is worth .00007c.

I like the ideas around Ethereum. Particularly smart contracts.


I've messing around with smart contracts at the moment.


How are you finding the Solidity side of it? I have a few texts to read through on the subject when I get the time.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:06 am 
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Working Class Rugger wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
BTC has always been divided into satoshi's. To be fair you sound like my father-in-law who has been a stock trader for 50 years and a gold bug. He simply can't or won't get his head around crypto.

What is your take on other cryptocurrencies/tokens like XRP, then Bimbo?


I'm all for the concept of cryptocurrencies as a move toward a more universal currency system but I just cannot see any in their current guises assuming the mantle without significant restructures. Breaking it into Satoshi's has other issues. One Satoshi equals .00000001 BTC and requires 100m of them to equal one. So at the current prices 1 Satoshi is worth .00007c.

I like the ideas around Ethereum. Particularly smart contracts.


I've messing around with smart contracts at the moment.


How are you finding the Solidity side of it? I have a few texts to read through on the subject when I get the time.


No issue. I've got around 18 years Javascript experience and write a lot of stuff in React and React Native so it was fairly straight forward.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:08 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
BTC has always been divided into satoshi's. To be fair you sound like my father-in-law who has been a stock trader for 50 years and a gold bug. He simply can't or won't get his head around crypto.

What is your take on other cryptocurrencies/tokens like XRP, then Bimbo?


I'm all for the concept of cryptocurrencies as a move toward a more universal currency system but I just cannot see any in their current guises assuming the mantle without significant restructures. Breaking it into Satoshi's has other issues. One Satoshi equals .00000001 BTC and requires 100m of them to equal one. So at the current prices 1 Satoshi is worth .00007c.

I like the ideas around Ethereum. Particularly smart contracts.


I've messing around with smart contracts at the moment.


How are you finding the Solidity side of it? I have a few texts to read through on the subject when I get the time.


No issue. I've got around 18 years Javascript experience and write a lot of stuff in React and React Native so it was fairly straight forward.


So it's similar enough to Javascript. That's good to know.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Working Class Rugger wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
I'm all for the concept of cryptocurrencies as a move toward a more universal currency system but I just cannot see any in their current guises assuming the mantle without significant restructures. Breaking it into Satoshi's has other issues. One Satoshi equals .00000001 BTC and requires 100m of them to equal one. So at the current prices 1 Satoshi is worth .00007c.

I like the ideas around Ethereum. Particularly smart contracts.


I've messing around with smart contracts at the moment.


How are you finding the Solidity side of it? I have a few texts to read through on the subject when I get the time.


No issue. I've got around 18 years Javascript experience and write a lot of stuff in React and React Native so it was fairly straight forward.


So it's similar enough to Javascript. That's good to know.


Syntax is very much so. You won't take long picking it up. You'll have a contract running in no time. Just make sure you test on a private blockchain. :nod:

contract mortal {
/* Define variable owner of the type address */
address owner;

/* This function is executed at initialization and sets the owner of the contract */
function mortal() { owner = msg.sender; }

/* Function to recover the funds on the contract */
function kill() { if (msg.sender == owner) selfdestruct(owner); }
}

contract greeter is mortal {
/* Define variable greeting of the type string */
string greeting;

/* This runs when the contract is executed */
function greeter(string _greeting) public {
greeting = _greeting;
}

/* Main function */
function greet() constant returns (string) {
return greeting;
}
}


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:25 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:

So it's similar enough to Javascript. That's good to know.


Syntax is very much so. You won't take long picking it up. You'll have a contract running in no time. Just make sure you test on a private blockchain. :nod:

contract mortal {
/* Define variable owner of the type address */
address owner;

/* This function is executed at initialization and sets the owner of the contract */
function mortal() { owner = msg.sender; }

/* Function to recover the funds on the contract */
function kill() { if (msg.sender == owner) selfdestruct(owner); }
}

contract greeter is mortal {
/* Define variable greeting of the type string */
string greeting;

/* This runs when the contract is executed */
function greeter(string _greeting) public {
greeting = _greeting;
}

/* Main function */
function greet() constant returns (string) {
return greeting;
}
}


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:11 pm 
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HKCJ wrote:
I have yet to meet someone who retired a millionaire from the dot com bubble. This is just the same. Tulips of Amsterdam for the 21st century. When the idiot down the pub is saying it's a sure thing you know there's trouble. Still for those who have made some money and cashed out kudos to you. I'll stick to bricks and mortar thanks.

I know several


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Bitcoin being touted as the future of money is obviously preposterous and in fairness even the most ardent fans have switched their description the "digital gold" route instead. If this stuff is the future of money it'll be government led currencies with a UX that isn't utterly atrocious.

There's still huge growth coming for the established coins imo though anyone giving price predictions in either direction should really be ignored.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:47 pm 
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TheBouncer wrote:
Bitcoin being touted as the future of money is obviously preposterous and in fairness even the most ardent fans have switched their description the "digital gold" route instead. If this stuff is the future of money it'll be government led currencies with a UX that isn't utterly atrocious.

There's still huge growth coming for the established coins imo though anyone giving price predictions in either direction should really be ignored.


Good post. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:56 pm 
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Segwit2x fork called off.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:41 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
Segwit2x fork called off.


And a $100 million dollars worth of ETH stuck on the ledger due to a badly written contract.🤣


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:33 am 
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goeagles wrote:
Segwit2x fork called off.

Good or bad for Bitcoin?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:41 am 
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handyman wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Segwit2x fork called off.

Good or bad for Bitcoin?


Depends on your perspective. The price dropped from about $7700 to $7300 immediately on the news, but some of that may have been the loss of having both coins after the fork. I think it's probably a good thing it failed.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:00 am 
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goeagles wrote:
handyman wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Segwit2x fork called off.

Good or bad for Bitcoin?


Depends on your perspective. The price dropped from about $7700 to $7300 immediately on the news, but some of that may have been the loss of having both coins after the fork. I think it's probably a good thing it failed.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Full on war now. Wright, Ver, Wu and that twat Flackevinge are trying to take out BTC.

How is this transfer on the blockchain today???? Has to be Ver's.

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/ ... vXytg6XdVT


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:47 pm 
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TheBouncer wrote:
Bitcoin being touted as the future of money is obviously preposterous and in fairness even the most ardent fans have switched their description the "digital gold" route instead. If this stuff is the future of money it'll be government led currencies with a UX that isn't utterly atrocious.

There's still huge growth coming for the established coins imo though anyone giving price predictions in either direction should really be ignored.



+100

I maintain that the true value is the underlying technology behind the coins than the coins themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:18 am 
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Broke 10k USD today. ETH is way up recently too.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:49 am 
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Fcuken ridiculous.

1 BTC is now worth around 25k samoan tala.

Fcuk I wish I had brought some years ago when it seemed like a fad.

FCUK FCUK FCUK!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
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kovana wrote:
Fcuken ridiculous.

1 BTC is now worth around 25k samoan tala.

Fcuk I wish I had brought some years ago when it seemed like a fad.

FCUK FCUK FCUK!


:lol: Bought ZAR 1 000 000 worth last week.


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