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 Post subject: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:21 pm 
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15. Hastings
14. Umaga (yep he was 13 when captain but also a winger)
13. BOD
12. Carling
11. Saint Andre
10. Porta
9. Farr-Jones
8. Shelford
7. McCaw
6. Pienaar
5. Eales
4. Mcbride
3. Whineray
2. Futzy
1. Sole

16. Wood
21. Ella


Last edited by CrazyIslander on Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:39 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:38 pm 
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12. JDV


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:41 pm 
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Good call.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:03 pm 
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Hooker is a strange call. Fitzgerald would be a better shout.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Mr Mike wrote:
Hooker is a strange call. Fitzgerald would be a better shout.


Most influential captain is Best. Fitzy is awesome also.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Best, Smit or Fitzpatrick are all better choices at 2. Also missing is a certain WJ McBride.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:11 pm 
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boringperson12 wrote:
Best, Smit or Fitzpatrick are all better choices at 2. Also missing is a certain WJ McBride.


Indeed, Lions greatest ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:15 pm 
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Wood is a shoo in at 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:26 pm 
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Flametop wrote:
Wood is a shoo in at 2.


Not as a captain, or hooker


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:26 pm 
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Parisse can piss off, Buck Shelford was undefeated as captain and someone has to lead the Haka.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:32 pm 
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It hurts to say this but Will Carling was a hell of a captain and may have bucked royalty.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:42 pm 
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boringperson12 wrote:
It hurts to say this but Will Carling was a hell of a captain and may have bucked royalty.



He can play for the 'All Shagged a Princess XV'

Carling, Tindall, Ralph - has the makings of a half decent backline at least.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:56 pm 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
It hurts to say this but Will Carling was a hell of a captain and may have bucked royalty.



He can play for the 'All Shagged a Princess XV'

Carling, Tindall, Ralph - has the makings of a half decent backline at least.

Damian Cronin for one lock spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:00 am 
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Great captaincy is largely dependent on success with at least some longevity. Therefore;

15 Daniel Drysdale (SCO) 72.7% success percentage, 11 tests as
14 Phillipe Saint-Ande (FRA) 73.5%, 34 tests
13 Tana Umaga (NZL) 85.7%, 21 tests
12 Billy Trew (WAL) 85.7%, 14 tests
11 Bill Maclagan (SCO) 77.3%, 11 tests
10 Dave Davies (ENG) 95.5%, 11 tests
9 David Kirk (NZL) 81.8%, 11 tests
8 Wayne Shelford (NZL) 96.4%, 14 tests
7 Richie McCaw (NZL) 89.1%, 110 tests
6 Reuben Thorne (NZL) 86.9%, 23 tests
5 Gary Whetton (NZL) 80%, 15 tests
4 Martin Johnson (ENG/LIO) 82.2%, 45 tests
3 Daniel Dubroca (FRA) 74%, 25 tests
2 Dylan Hartley (ENG) 85%, 30 tests
1 Wilson Whineray (NZL) 78.3%, 30 tests


Last edited by naki on Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:16 am 
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boringperson12 wrote:
Best, Smit or Fitzpatrick are all better choices at 2. Also missing is a certain WJ McBride.


And Colin Deans...


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:50 am 
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naki wrote:
Great captaincy is largely dependent on success with at least some longevity. Therefore;

15 Daniel Drysdale (SCO) 72.7% success percentage, 11 tests as
14 Phillips Saint-Ande (FRA) 73.5%, 34 tests
13 Tana Umaga (NZL) 85.7%, 21 tests
12 Billy Trew (WAL) 85.7%, 14 tests
11 Bill Maclagan (SCO) 77.3%, 11 tests
10 Dave Davies (ENG) 95.5%, 11 tests
9 David Kirk (NZL) 81.8%, 11 tests
8 Wayne Shelford (NZL) 96.4%, 14 tests
7 Richie McCaw (NZL) 89.1%, 110 tests
6 Reuben Thorne (NZL) 86.9%, 23 tests
5 Gary Whetton (NZL) 80%, 15 tests
4 Martin Johnson (ENG/LIO) 82.2%, 45 tests
3 Daniel Dubroca (FRA) 74%, 25 tests
2 Dylan Hartley (ENG) 85%, 30 tests
1 Wilson Whneray (NZL) 78.3%, 30 tests


Improvement on the mean national winning % would be more illuminating.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:00 am 
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Damned shame Mourie has yet to be mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:02 am 
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Anyone who captains NZ will have a high winning % regardless of leadership ability. Except Taine Randell :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:10 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Anyone who captains NZ will have a high winning % regardless of leadership ability. Except Taine Randell :lol:


Mourie was one of our greatest ever captains, not to be discussed in the same sentence, paragraph, essay, as Randell.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:12 am 
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Bogbunny wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:
Hooker is a strange call. Fitzgerald would be a better shout.


Most influential captain is Best. Fitzy is awesome also.

Very influential, yes if you mean by the number of games his sides have lost when he started chucking pies


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:29 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Anyone who captains NZ will have a high winning % regardless of leadership ability. Except Taine Randell :lol:


Mourie was one of our greatest ever captains, not to be discussed in the same sentence, paragraph, essay, as Randell.

Hey, you watch it (I go to the mattress for old primary school mates), it wasn't his fault he was caught up in Hart's meltdown and then ran into Bitchell. :x

:D


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:42 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Anyone who captains NZ will have a high winning % regardless of leadership ability. Except Taine Randell :lol:


Mourie was one of our greatest ever captains, not to be discussed in the same sentence, paragraph, essay, as Randell.

Hey, you watch it (I go to the mattress for old primary school mates), it wasn't his fault he was caught up in Hart's meltdown and then ran into Bitchell. :x

:D


You won't get me arguing that Randell was treated well :)


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:51 am 
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No Sam Warburton...I'm oot!


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:01 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Anyone who captains NZ will have a high winning % regardless of leadership ability. Except Taine Randell :lol:


Mourie was one of our greatest ever captains, not to be discussed in the same sentence, paragraph, essay, as Randell.

Hey, you watch it (I go to the mattress for old primary school mates), it wasn't his fault he was caught up in Hart's meltdown and then ran into Bitchell. :x

:D


You won't get me arguing that Randell was treated well :)

:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:13 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Anyone who captains NZ will have a high winning % regardless of leadership ability. Except Taine Randell :lol:

22 tests as captain,12 wins,1 draw,9 losses.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:22 am 
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Where's our Billy B in this?


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:25 am 
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BBB wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Anyone who captains NZ will have a high winning % regardless of leadership ability. Except Taine Randell :lol:

22 tests as captain,12 wins,1 draw,9 losses.

What's your point?


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:07 pm 
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I think you need to evaluate the length and quality of their captaincy as well as their career as a player.

Much as I despised the man as a player while he was playing, Martin Johnson just has to be there as lock. World cup and Grand slam winning..


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:31 pm 
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waguser wrote:
I think you need to evaluate the length and quality of their captaincy as well as their career as a player.

Much as I despised the man as a player while he was playing, Martin Johnson just has to be there as lock. World cup and Grand slam winning..


WJMcB 2 Winning Lions tours


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Bogbunny wrote:
waguser wrote:
I think you need to evaluate the length and quality of their captaincy as well as their career as a player.

Much as I despised the man as a player while he was playing, Martin Johnson just has to be there as lock. World cup and Grand slam winning..


WJMcB 2 Winning Lions tours

Lock is a tough one because there is Jon Eels with two world cup wins (one as captain), a lions series win, bledisloe wins and 3N wins.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:04 pm 
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A couple of criterias
- first and foremost - must be an iconic captain (more important than success coz international rugby success is talent pools of countries)
- must have led the team through success and/or adversity
- their captaincy is noted for being great.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:08 pm 
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Lawrence Dallaglio would've gone on to be one of the greatest captains if it wasn't for the tabloids. I would rate over Johnson. But rate Carling over both. Carling and Pienaar had natural charms that teammates naturally love and respect.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Toss up between Hastings and Blanco but I thought Hastings carried Scotland through tough times whereas Blanco could not lead a very talented French team to realise anything close to their potential.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:16 pm 
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WJM vs Johnson.
Hard to pick. Picked Johnson first then switched to WJM. I now realise that WJM didn't captain the '71 Lions tour. Johnson could be back.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Eales led the Wallabies from oblivion to ultimate glory.
From being spanked by NZ and SA 96/97 to the glory days 98-01.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Futzy - he's in due to popular demand but I thought he was average captain. He couldn't lead a talented list to RWC glory and only stormed home 96/97 due to a vast gap in talent from other countries. In his favour, if all players in his generation were to be asked who they would love to play under they would probably choose him.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:50 pm 
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Kiwias wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Anyone who captains NZ will have a high winning % regardless of leadership ability. Except Taine Randell :lol:


Mourie was one of our greatest ever captains, not to be discussed in the same sentence, paragraph, essay, as Randell.


:thumbup: Probably the GOAT of captains.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:35 pm 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Lawrence Dallaglio would've gone on to be one of the greatest captains if it wasn't for the tabloids. I would rate over Johnson. But rate Carling over both. Carling and Pienaar had natural charms that teammates naturally love and respect.


Are you sure about that with Carling?

He was dropped as captain for Phil de Glanville (another centre) later in his career but still selected as a player. Hardly a ringing endorsement of his captaincy.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:41 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Lawrence Dallaglio would've gone on to be one of the greatest captains if it wasn't for the tabloids. I would rate over Johnson. But rate Carling over both. Carling and Pienaar had natural charms that teammates naturally love and respect.


Are you sure about that with Carling?

He was dropped as captain for Phil de Glanville (another centre) later in his career but still selected as a player. Hardly a ringing endorsement of his captaincy.

I think he gave up the captaincy.


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 Post subject: Re: Great Captains XV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:45 pm 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
only stormed home 96/97 due to a vast gap in talent from other countries


Probably worth noting that the Bok team that NZ beat 6 times out of 7 in 96/97 then went on to equal the world record for consecutive test victories in 97/98......


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