Planet Rugby Forum

FFS even the Lions won a game this weekend...

Congrats to the Boks. They look a team transformed in attack and more importantly defence. The heads don't go down now when they concede a try and they actually seem like they have a gameplan which is a huge step up on 2016. The immediate future looks bright, they'll do damage in the 4N this year imo.

France well...best you can say that they competed in spurts and have uncovered a potentially world class outside centre in Penaud, otherwise they were just outclassed by a better team.

argus wrote:How did combrink go yesterday

Solid outing. One or two strong ball carries, but definetely still has some rust; which was to be expected.

Did Jan get MOM?

Also noticed that if you don't want Kolisi spilling passes, throw the ball below his knees.

Fantastic stuff. So good to see real progression in attack and so much commitment (and improved structure) in defence.
Seeing players like Beast, Etzebeth and PSDT passing the ball is semi-erotic. That 1st try would have been unthinkable just 6 months ago.
Very happy for Kolisi. He's been great all year and has stepped it up even further for the Boks. That was one hell of a performance.
Hope Oupa is okay but what a difference with JLdP coming on. That back row looked spot on.

Insane_Homer wrote:Did Jan get MOM?

Kolisi obviously

Insane_Homer wrote:Did Jan get MOM?

Also noticed that if you don't want Kolisi spilling passes, throw the ball below his knees.

No, Kolisi as deserved. Best on the field by far. Jan the best back today imo.

sunnybanana wrote:Fantastic stuff. So good to see real progression in attack and so much commitment (and improved structure) in defence.
Seeing players like Beast, Etzebeth and PSDT passing the ball is semi-erotic. That 1st try would have been unthinkable just 6 months ago.
Very happy for Kolisi. He's been great all year and has stepped it up even further for the Boks. That was one hell of a performance.
Hope Oupa is okay but what a difference with JLdP coming on. That back row looked spot on.

with all that.

Watching it again now. Kitshoff absolutely demolished his opponent in the one scrum leading up to the almost French try where Cronje helped him into touch. Malherbe couldn't apply the same pressure on his side.

The passage of play leading up to Coenie's try was brilliant. Turnover by Kolisi then Marx showed some great hands on the sideline a few phases before.

Good to hear that the Springboks managed to uphold the natural order of SH rugby dominance.

saffer13 wrote:Watching it again now. Kitshoff absolutely demolished his opponent in the one scrum leading up to the almost French try where Cronje helped him into touch. Malherbe couldn't apply the same pressure on his side.

Beast took all the pressure early on when he was scrummaging against the best the French had. Was touch and go in the beginning but Beast came out the better scrummager. Give credit for that.

Sandstorm wrote:Shut up Sard. Kriel's defence is too crap for Test 13.

Can the Serfontein - Van Rensburg combination work when the latter gets back from injury?

Jan was outstanding. 15 tackles. He was like a Springbok ninja popping up everywhere with an incredible work rate. I cannot believe that there are those who want to move him outside when he is in such scintillating form. Completely retarded thinking. That's two strong games in a row. We are so used to tweaking our backline after a dismal year last year that its becoming some sort of habit. Like I said. We have agonized through JDV and DDA for so long now that it's almost instinctive to think about moving players around in this position. Even when we have finally found the right one. Mapoe had a decent game outside Jan and was impressive on defence. He is a flyer too which I believe you need in this position. Which is why I would leave him there and have Kriel on the bench covering 13 and 15. As much as Frans is an understated talent I don't believe we should sacrifice the pace out wide and good work that Jan has achieved just to squeeze Frans in. Frans hasn't shown enough for me which is why I would start him for the SA A side at inside centre. Just to get a real feel.

Heaven forbid but if Jan got injured we would be in a dilemma with our backline again

Blake wrote:

argus wrote:How did combrink go yesterday

Solid outing. One or two strong ball carries, but definetely still has some rust; which was to be expected.

He doesn't look completely up to speed yet. Definitely not what we saw last year before his injury. Like Jan he probably needs time to recover.

argus wrote:

houtkabouter wrote:

Sandstorm wrote:

houtkabouter wrote:Coetzee is a good fullback. You lot are pissed.

I certainly am. But he's a crowbar who doesn't pass and gets smashed in contact. Zero x-factor

For the first time in years we have a fullback that doesn't kick everything and now you complain.

Doesn't pass, we scored a try from his past last week. You lot really should pay more attention.

I'm with you

Thought he did well

Think that JLDP coming on early had an impact on the way the kolisi played

Watching him on defence in the second half was quite something

How did combrink go yesterday

I was highly amused when one of the NH posters said that JLDP was an impressive slab. He certainly is. One day Sandyvagina might actually enjoy watching him in action

saffer13 wrote:

argus wrote:

Cartman wrote:Kolisi critics are having a bad day

He's not watching

Sards wrote:Kolisi having a big game

Sards wrote:Jan was outstanding. 15 tackles. He was like a Springbok ninja popping up everywhere with an incredible work rate. I cannot believe that there are those who want to move him outside when he is in such scintillating form. Completely retarded thinking. That's two strong games in a row. We are so used to tweaking our backline after a dismal year last year that its becoming some sort of habit. Like I said. We have agonized through JDV and DDA for so long now that it's almost instinctive to think about moving players around in this position. Even when we have finally found the right one. Mapoe had a decent game outside Jan and was impressive on defence. He is a flyer too which I believe you need in this position. Which is why I would leave him there and have Kriel on the bench covering 13 and 15. As much as Frans is an understated talent I don't believe we should sacrifice the pace out wide and good work that Jan has achieved just to squeeze Frans in. Frans hasn't shown enough for me which is why I would start him for the SA A side at inside centre. Just to get a real feel.

Heaven forbid but if Jan got injured we would be in a dilemma with our backline again

I thought you were one of the Serfontein critics? No? Doesn't matter, I'm just glad we agree on something now. However, you seem to have now turned your binary rating system on Steyn. To me they are both top class and the Springboks don't produce many top class backs so they are both important. They are also 6 years apart so while Serfontein is definitely the man for the future, Steyn should be our man for right now. He probably needs an intensive fitness programme, but that applies to just about any player in France.

How can he not have shown you enough? He's only played as a sub for short periods. Apart from his running, passing and tackling, he is unique in that he has a big boot as well. Anyway, playing for SA A doesn't show anything, if we judge by Friday night's game. Incidentally, I think we need a goal kicker if we play Elton at FH. His SR stats might look OK with so many games played in Joburg but when he has to strive against the wind or in heavy cold air he loses accuracy.

It certainly wouldn't be a dilemma if Jan got injured, I just can't agree with that at all.

While we're at it, does anyone else notice that the new or newish players who have shown form in the last two tests are all in their mid to late twenties even though the number of caps is small? Whiteley, Jantjies, Kolisi, Mostert, Cronje, Hougaard, Serfontein. (A nod to the young Marx and du Preez). This was the area that Meyer neglected when he picked a mixture of over 30's and under 24's which made the average look normal. It wasn't. You cannot buy or coach experience.

Slider wrote:They are also 6 years apart so while Serfontein is definitely the man for the future, Steyn should be our man for right now. He probably needs an intensive fitness programme, but that applies to just about any player in France.

No thanks. We need players committed to South African rugby. Not mercenaries as far as possible.

Slider wrote:While we're at it, does anyone else notice that the new or newish players who have shown form in the last two tests are all in their mid to late twenties even though the number of caps is small? Whiteley, Jantjies, Kolisi, Mostert, Cronje, Hougaard, Serfontein. (A nod to the young Marx and du Preez). This was the area that Meyer neglected when he picked a mixture of over 30's and under 24's which made the average look normal. It wasn't. You cannot buy or coach experience.

Kolisi and Serfontein were selected by Meyer.

Kolisi and Serfontein were selected by Meyer.

That's the point, which you are missing - they were 20/21 when they were selected. They were too young, too inexperienced, in a team that should have had 26-28 year olds. Now is their time.

Maybe Serfontein wasn't such a bad call, backs can be younger than forwards and he was playing with guys like Morne, JdV and Habana around him. Also, he is uber talented. So he's the exception but too many of the other selections were made too young.

As for your mercenaries comment. I only wish we had an abundance of world class players in Super Rugby, but we don't. The standard is dropping each year as more and more players, not necessarily Springbok standard, leave for overseas. To maximise the Springbok potential we can't afford to let Steyn, Vermeulen and others rot in the south of France.

Following your logic, Serfontein gets dropped if/when he moves to France. I hope not.

Slider wrote:
Following your logic

Don't do it.

Slider wrote:

Kolisi and Serfontein were selected by Meyer.

That's the point, which you are missing - they were 20/21 when they were selected. They were too young, too inexperienced, in a team that should have had 26-28 year olds. Now is their time.

Maybe Serfontein wasn't such a bad call, backs can be younger than forwards and he was playing with guys like Morne, JdV and Habana around him. Also, he is uber talented. So he's the exception but too many of the other selections were made too young.

I'm not missing the point at all. I just pointed out that these players were selected by Meyer besides 20/21 is not too young for international selection. Lienert-Brown has just turned 22 so has Itoje.

Sandstorm wrote:

Slider wrote:
Following your logic

Don't do it.

Ah Sandyvagina...

sorCrer wrote:

Sandstorm wrote:

Slider wrote:
Following your logic

Don't do it.

Ah Sandyvagina...

It suits him doesn't it.
Agree re mercenaries.
Look I know Frans is a talent and I cannot fathom why a run of 80 minutes or 60 minutes starting for SA A is such a bad thing. We will then see his fitness and how much he really wants it.

The sudden obsession with moving Serfontein. Is it because he is a Bulls player?
I certainly hope not.

Sards wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

Sandstorm wrote:

Slider wrote:
Following your logic

Don't do it.

Ah Sandyvagina...

It suits him doesn't it.
Agree re mercenaries.
Look I know Frans is a talent and I cannot fathom why a run of 80 minutes or 60 minutes starting for SA A is such a bad thing. We will then see his fitness and how much he really wants it.

He will probably throw a fit. The point is that foreign players should only be called up in an emergency.

Regarding it not being a train smash if Serfontein got injured. Who will replace him going forward. Only Steyn available. There is of course Andre Esterhuizen who has very similar basic skills as what Serfontein has. With Rohan gone for awhile yet. Otherwise the cupboard is pretty bare

Slider wrote:

Kolisi and Serfontein were selected by Meyer.

That's the point, which you are missing - they were 20/21 when they were selected. They were too young, too inexperienced, in a team that should have had 26-28 year olds. Now is their time.

Maybe Serfontein wasn't such a bad call, backs can be younger than forwards and he was playing with guys like Morne, JdV and Habana around him. Also, he is uber talented. So he's the exception but too many of the other selections were made too young.

Interesting observation

Sards wrote:Regarding it not being a train smash if Serfontein got injured. Who will replace him going forward. Only Steyn available. There is of course Andre Esterhuizen who has very similar basic skills as what Serfontein has. With Rohan gone for awhile yet. Otherwise the cupboard is pretty bare

I would hesitate to throw esterhuizen the opportunity, mostly because he'd drop it, pick it up, kick it out on the full and then decapitate someone in a tackle.

Of course if I was a shark supporter I'd think he's magnificent though. So alpha.

Coetzee has maintained over the course of this series that he views Serfontein as a specialist No 12 and that the player is part of his long-term plans. The Bok coach reiterated this point on Saturday evening when he revealed that Serfontein (28 caps) will receive an opportunity to add to his tally in the coming Rugby Championship.

Maybe they can somehow keep him here. Would be sad to lose him now.

Mallett

‘We just won two games by scoring 37 points twice in a row and all the players contributed to a good team effort, so why should players concede their jersey to other players just because the series has been won? A player should play himself out of the Springbok jersey with a poor performance. Rotation is the right thing to do at Super Rugby level, because it’s a marathon. A Test is there to be won every week. It’s not a marathon, it’s three games, then there’s a break, followed by the Rugby Championship, then there’s another short break before the end-of-year tour. Winning Test matches is all that matters, so you put your best team on the field every time. When you have one or two injuries, you replace those players, but otherwise you don’t just change for the sake of changing.

Sards wrote:Mallett

‘We just won two games by scoring 37 points twice in a row and all the players contributed to a good team effort, so why should players concede their jersey to other players just because the series has been won? A player should play himself out of the Springbok jersey with a poor performance. Rotation is the right thing to do at Super Rugby level, because it’s a marathon. A Test is there to be won every week. It’s not a marathon, it’s three games, then there’s a break, followed by the Rugby Championship, then there’s another short break before the end-of-year tour. Winning Test matches is all that matters, so you put your best team on the field every time. When you have one or two injuries, you replace those players, but otherwise you don’t just change for the sake of changing.

But...but..Mvovo

sorCrer wrote:

Sards wrote:Mallett

‘We just won two games by scoring 37 points twice in a row and all the players contributed to a good team effort, so why should players concede their jersey to other players just because the series has been won? A player should play himself out of the Springbok jersey with a poor performance. Rotation is the right thing to do at Super Rugby level, because it’s a marathon. A Test is there to be won every week. It’s not a marathon, it’s three games, then there’s a break, followed by the Rugby Championship, then there’s another short break before the end-of-year tour. Winning Test matches is all that matters, so you put your best team on the field every time. When you have one or two injuries, you replace those players, but otherwise you don’t just change for the sake of changing.

But...but..Mvovo

A player should play himself out of the Springbok jersey with a poor performance

Although Andries has not had any poor performances that deserve censure yet he is racking up some indifferent performances and is susceptible to being too small.
By the same token Rhule has shown himself to be a really poor defender.
The team victories will save these two from being dropped .

I am still amused that there are those calling for Serfontein to make way for Frans when those same punters have punted the likes of JDV and DDA when both were in completely shocking form with no progress over an extended period and only an injury enforced layoff to result in the right change. Yes , they know exactly who they are .

Sards wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

Sards wrote:Mallett

‘We just won two games by scoring 37 points twice in a row and all the players contributed to a good team effort, so why should players concede their jersey to other players just because the series has been won? A player should play himself out of the Springbok jersey with a poor performance. Rotation is the right thing to do at Super Rugby level, because it’s a marathon. A Test is there to be won every week. It’s not a marathon, it’s three games, then there’s a break, followed by the Rugby Championship, then there’s another short break before the end-of-year tour. Winning Test matches is all that matters, so you put your best team on the field every time. When you have one or two injuries, you replace those players, but otherwise you don’t just change for the sake of changing.

But...but..Mvovo

A player should play himself out of the Springbok jersey with a poor performance

Although Andries has not had any poor performances that deserve censure yet he is racking up some indifferent performances and is susceptible to being too small.
By the same token Rhule has shown himself to be a really poor defender.
The team victories will save these two from being dropped .

I am still amused that there are those calling for Serfontein to make way for Frans when those same punters have punted the likes of JDV and DDA when both were in completely shocking form with no progress over an extended period and only an injury enforced layoff to result in the right change. Yes , they know exactly who they are .

Mvovo, the player who has shown repeatedly that he cannot catch a high ball? You want to play him at fullback or wing?

So happy for Siya, nice bloke who deserves the success. Serfontein showed he has the goods, should move to the Lions...........

What I took from the game was the pride in the Bok jersey is back.

handyman wrote:

Sards wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

Sards wrote:Mallett

‘We just won two games by scoring 37 points twice in a row and all the players contributed to a good team effort, so why should players concede their jersey to other players just because the series has been won? A player should play himself out of the Springbok jersey with a poor performance. Rotation is the right thing to do at Super Rugby level, because it’s a marathon. A Test is there to be won every week. It’s not a marathon, it’s three games, then there’s a break, followed by the Rugby Championship, then there’s another short break before the end-of-year tour. Winning Test matches is all that matters, so you put your best team on the field every time. When you have one or two injuries, you replace those players, but otherwise you don’t just change for the sake of changing.

But...but..Mvovo

A player should play himself out of the Springbok jersey with a poor performance

Although Andries has not had any poor performances that deserve censure yet he is racking up some indifferent performances and is susceptible to being too small.
By the same token Rhule has shown himself to be a really poor defender.
The team victories will save these two from being dropped .

I am still amused that there are those calling for Serfontein to make way for Frans when those same punters have punted the likes of JDV and DDA when both were in completely shocking form with no progress over an extended period and only an injury enforced layoff to result in the right change. Yes , they know exactly who they are .

Mvovo, the player who has shown repeatedly that he cannot catch a high ball? You want to play him at fullback or wing?

On the positive side he catches twice as much as Andre, Sardys other love.

At least Andre lets him watch the game.

Sards wrote:

Coetzee has maintained over the course of this series that he views Serfontein as a specialist No 12 and that the player is part of his long-term plans. The Bok coach reiterated this point on Saturday evening when he revealed that Serfontein (28 caps) will receive an opportunity to add to his tally in the coming Rugby Championship.

Maybe they can somehow keep him here. Would be sad to lose him now.

They can try, but I think the horse has bolted. Just join the dots. In January the media reported that JS had agreed a 3 year deal at Montpellier. The Bulls responded that he was under contract through 2017 and as such Montpellier and JS were not allowed to negotiate. JS said he had heard some rumours but he definitely hadn't been negotiating, no sirree, he didn't know how that started. Montpellier backed that up, they definitely hadn't been negotiating with JS. Shocked that anyone would suggest such a thing. Midi Libre was printing fake news.

But it's like a corporate takeover, once you deny one approach then the market knows you are in play. Then he was linked to two more interested clubs, Toulon and Northampton. Nothing concrete. Fast forward to April and the Bulls together with SA Rugby offered him a new contract. Big surprise, he turned it down. Not because of money of course, he wants to pursue opportunities overseas because of personal reasons. (That is the line that failed politicians usually give for resigning.)

At this point Brendan Venter has a meltdown about agents who fill players' heads about untold riches. Yes, that Brendan Venter, really. Mr Two Jobs. Midi Libre print another story - we told you so, you should have listened, the club denials were false.

Also, listen to Allister's press conference. He more or less confirmed JS leaving, the emphasis is on getting him to 30 caps asap. https://youtu.be/jpr2WCH07vo?t=42s

beachboy wrote:So happy for Siya, nice bloke who deserves the success.
What I took from the game was the pride in the Bok jersey is back.

Was never a fan...felt he was completely overated...it just shows what a change in enviroment can do for a player...
Yes ,there does seem to be some pride restored to the jersey.

Slider wrote:

Sards wrote:

Coetzee has maintained over the course of this series that he views Serfontein as a specialist No 12 and that the player is part of his long-term plans. The Bok coach reiterated this point on Saturday evening when he revealed that Serfontein (28 caps) will receive an opportunity to add to his tally in the coming Rugby Championship.

Maybe they can somehow keep him here. Would be sad to lose him now.

They can try, but I think the horse has bolted. Just join the dots. In January the media reported that JS had agreed a 3 year deal at Montpellier. The Bulls responded that he was under contract through 2017 and as such Montpellier and JS were not allowed to negotiate. JS said he had heard some rumours but he definitely hadn't been negotiating, no sirree, he didn't know how that started. Montpellier backed that up, they definitely hadn't been negotiating with JS. Shocked that anyone would suggest such a thing. Midi Libre was printing fake news.

But it's like a corporate takeover, once you deny one approach then the market knows you are in play. Then he was linked to two more interested clubs, Toulon and Northampton. Nothing concrete. Fast forward to April and the Bulls together with SA Rugby offered him a new contract. Big surprise, he turned it down. Not because of money of course, he wants to pursue opportunities overseas because of personal reasons. (That is the line that failed politicians usually give for resigning.)

At this point Brendan Venter has a meltdown about agents who fill players' heads about untold riches. Yes, that Brendan Venter, really. Mr Two Jobs. Midi Libre print another story - we told you so, you should have listened, the club denials were false.

Playing for the Bulls is toxic currently...there was a time when playing for the Bulls and Stormers gave you an inside edge at the boks. Now its almost a death sentenve unless you play so completely above what you were experiencing in your home union

Let it go Sards. You can hate the Bulls & Stormers all you want when SR restarts.

Slider wrote:Let it go Sards. You can hate the Bulls & Stormers all you want when SR restarts.

Huh.......Why would you think I hate either........