Planet Rugby Forum

Saturday, 17 June

• 15:00 AEST (UTC+10): Sydney

• 13:00 AWST (UTC+8): Perth

• 06:00 BST (UTC+1): the other Perth

#Hopetoun Cup



@Sin City



Sportsground



Curtain raiser



Match Officials
Referee: Wayne Barnes (Eng)
AR1: Matthew Carley (Eng)
AR2: Brendon Pickerill (NZ)
TMO: Shane McDermott (NZ)






Coach: Michael Cheika
Captain: Michael Hooper

Line up:
1. Tom Robertson
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau
3. Allan Alaalatoa
4. Sam Carter
5. Adam Coleman
6. Ned Hanigan
7. Michael Hooper (c)
8. Scott Higginbotham
9. Will Genia
10. Bernard Foley
11. Eto Nabuli
12. Karmichael Hunt
13. Tevita Kuridrani
14. Dane Haylett-Petty
15. Israel Folau

Replacements:
16. Stephen Moore
17. Scott Sio
18. Sekope Kepu
19. Rory Arnold
20. Richard Hardwick
21. Joe Powell
22. Quade Cooper
23. Reece Hodge




Coach: Gregor Townsend
Captain: John Barclay

Line up:
1. Gordon Reid
2. Fraser Brown
3. Zander Fagerson
4. Ben Toolis
5. Jonny Gray
6. John Barclay (c)
7. Hamish Watson
8. Ryan Wilson
9. Ali Price
10. Finn Russell
11. Rory Hughes
12. Duncan Taylor
13. Alex Dunbar
14. Lee Jones
15. Greig Tonks

Replacements:
16. Ross Ford
17. Allan Dell
18. Willem Nel
19. Tim Swinson
20. Josh Strauss
21. Henry Pyrgos
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Matt Scott

Can we get Perese flown back in as a last minute replacement on account of being the best centre in Australia?

Dumbledore wrote:Can we get Perese flown back in as a last minute replacement on account of being the best centre in Australia?

u20 level is not International level.

Edit: misread it

comets wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Can we get Perese flown back in as a last minute replacement on account of being the best centre in Australia?

u20 level is not International level.

Who gives a shit? He dominated the NRC, looked totally comfortable out of position at Soup level, and dominated the U20s. He's probably the only centre in the country save maybe Beale who actually looks to attack space.

Scots training with the Coog in Coogee

Dumbledore wrote:Can we get Perese flown back in as a last minute replacement on account of being the best centre in Australia?

They would all look good at U20s level, which Parese has not done in every match. He is the future for sure and his time will come.

Just rewatched the Fiji game.

Stephen Moore is totally, totally, done. A total liability. He moves like a retired bricky. It's not his fault, but his legs are completely gone, he can barely move. Absolutely no way he should be in the squad, let alone the 23. Robertson is just hanging on at this level I reckon. He worries me as a starter.
,
Speight was better than I first thought. The backline is ponderous though. It's all very one-paced and they (Harmichael aside) don't work hard enough to make up for it. DHP was very ordinary, and Foley doesn't exactly get things whipping along. Genia was fat and slow, totally outplayed by the Fijian 9, no idea why people are giving him such rave reviews. Powell sucked, which might have made Genia look good in comparison I guess?

Higgers had a pretty good game for the most part. Bit sloppy, but did a lot of good work. Hanigan had a good start, but faded. The whole breakdown strategy was interesting, suspect they were instructed to stand off it as much as possible - especially given Cheika's halftime comments about wanting to see workrate and the defence in general improve. Hardwick was excellent when he came on though. Straight in hunting the ball - I think it's a pretty overrated aspect of the game, but it was impressive to see.

Coleman is the most important player in Australia by a mile. And probably the best. Carter is meh, he's just a guy. Arnold at least plays with some pop.

General vibe I got is that we need more pace as a team. Kuridrani is fine, but there's a limit to what we can achieve with him playing like this. It looks like a decent partnership with Hunt, who was really pretty good at 12, but it won't threaten any of the big teams, and it doesn't get the outside backs involved nearly enough. I am half serious about bringing Perese in. Not sure what other options are out there, other than something from left field like Beale or Sefa.

Can we expect the Grey brothers for this game? Their absense was notable v Italy.

Zakar wrote:Can we expect the Grey brothers for this game? Their absense was notable v Italy.

Possibly Jonny. Richie not in the squad due to injury.

They weren't missed against Italy - Toolis had a cracking game and Swinson was his usual industrious self.

So second week in a row we play a team from a country where the men wear dresses.

Dumbledore wrote:Just rewatched the Fiji game.

Stephen Moore is totally, totally, done. A total liability. He moves like a retired bricky. It's not his fault, but his legs are completely gone, he can barely move. Absolutely no way he should be in the squad, let alone the 23. Robertson is just hanging on at this level I reckon. He worries me as a starter.
,
Speight was better than I first thought. The backline is ponderous though. It's all very one-paced and they (Harmichael aside) don't work hard enough to make up for it. DHP was very ordinary, and Foley doesn't exactly get things whipping along. Genia was fat and slow, totally outplayed by the Fijian 9, no idea why people are giving him such rave reviews. Powell sucked, which might have made Genia look good in comparison I guess?

Higgers had a pretty good game for the most part. Bit sloppy, but did a lot of good work. Hanigan had a good start, but faded. The whole breakdown strategy was interesting, suspect they were instructed to stand off it as much as possible - especially given Cheika's halftime comments about wanting to see workrate and the defence in general improve. Hardwick was excellent when he came on though. Straight in hunting the ball - I think it's a pretty overrated aspect of the game, but it was impressive to see.

Coleman is the most important player in Australia by a mile. And probably the best. Carter is meh, he's just a guy. Arnold at least plays with some pop.

General vibe I got is that we need more pace as a team. Kuridrani is fine, but there's a limit to what we can achieve with him playing like this. It looks like a decent partnership with Hunt, who was really pretty good at 12, but it won't threaten any of the big teams, and it doesn't get the outside backs involved nearly enough. I am half serious about bringing Perese in. Not sure what other options are out there, other than something from left field like Beale or Sefa.

I agree on Moore.
And Robertson too.
On the backline I also agree on Genia. He was poor.
I think overall though it was the first hit up for the year and Id be giving players a second chance, by and large.
Izzy found his mojo which is vital. Speight was OK.
13 is a hard one. Kuridrani is an old schoo 13. Do we stick with that or trial a more Conrad Smith style there (minus the plumness)?

clydecloggie wrote:

Zakar wrote:Can we expect the Grey brothers for this game? Their absense was notable v Italy.

Possibly Jonny. Richie not in the squad due to injury.

They weren't missed against Italy - Toolis had a cracking game and Swinson was his usual industrious self.

I meant their absense was notable as I couldn't remember the last time one of them wasn't in the team.

Toolis was good, you poaching scumbags.

Rebels signed his brother Alex Toolis end of last year but he's been injured this whole season. Not sure if he's as good as his brother.

Farva wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Just rewatched the Fiji game.

Stephen Moore is totally, totally, done. A total liability. He moves like a retired bricky. It's not his fault, but his legs are completely gone, he can barely move. Absolutely no way he should be in the squad, let alone the 23. Robertson is just hanging on at this level I reckon. He worries me as a starter.
,
Speight was better than I first thought. The backline is ponderous though. It's all very one-paced and they (Harmichael aside) don't work hard enough to make up for it. DHP was very ordinary, and Foley doesn't exactly get things whipping along. Genia was fat and slow, totally outplayed by the Fijian 9, no idea why people are giving him such rave reviews. Powell sucked, which might have made Genia look good in comparison I guess?

Higgers had a pretty good game for the most part. Bit sloppy, but did a lot of good work. Hanigan had a good start, but faded. The whole breakdown strategy was interesting, suspect they were instructed to stand off it as much as possible - especially given Cheika's halftime comments about wanting to see workrate and the defence in general improve. Hardwick was excellent when he came on though. Straight in hunting the ball - I think it's a pretty overrated aspect of the game, but it was impressive to see.

Coleman is the most important player in Australia by a mile. And probably the best. Carter is meh, he's just a guy. Arnold at least plays with some pop.

General vibe I got is that we need more pace as a team. Kuridrani is fine, but there's a limit to what we can achieve with him playing like this. It looks like a decent partnership with Hunt, who was really pretty good at 12, but it won't threaten any of the big teams, and it doesn't get the outside backs involved nearly enough. I am half serious about bringing Perese in. Not sure what other options are out there, other than something from left field like Beale or Sefa.

I agree on Moore.
And Robertson too.
On the backline I also agree on Genia. He was poor.
I think overall though it was the first hit up for the year and Id be giving players a second chance, by and large.
Izzy found his mojo which is vital. Speight was OK.
13 is a hard one. Kuridrani is an old schoo 13. Do we stick with that or trial a more Conrad Smith style there (minus the plumness)?

I want to see

10. Foley
11. DHP?
12. Hunt
13. Kerevi
14. Beale
15. Folou

TranceNRG wrote:Rebels signed his brother Alex Toolis end of last year but he's been injured this whole season. Not sure if he's as good as his brother.

Are you Crims going to try and reverse the poaching process by getting Lewis Carmichael on a residency ticket?

Market Square Hero wrote:Lewis Carmichael on a residency ticket?

No one able to be re-signed for the Force so far.

That's how they got him in the first place, a virtual rugby holiday on the cheap.

But he's acquitted himself well.

Tough one for Toonies second game. I'd have preffered this one in the autumn.



Same team again bar Watson, Gray and Brown.

hp18 wrote:Tough one for Toonies second game. I'd have preffered this one in the autumn.



Same team again bar Watson, Gray and Brown.

Nah. Feeling good about this one. We'll run them off their feet.

I'd keep the Edinburgh front row as starters. Agree with Gray for Swinson and Watson for Wilson, fitness permitting.

Did I see somewhere this was on Alba?

slick wrote:Did I see somewhere this was on Alba?

might be - I heard it was on Sky

Market Square Hero wrote:

TranceNRG wrote:Rebels signed his brother Alex Toolis end of last year but he's been injured this whole season. Not sure if he's as good as his brother.

Are you Crims going to try and reverse the poaching process by getting Lewis Carmichael on a residency ticket?

Na Toony will bench him v Fiji.

Farva wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Just rewatched the Fiji game.

Stephen Moore is totally, totally, done. A total liability. He moves like a retired bricky. It's not his fault, but his legs are completely gone, he can barely move. Absolutely no way he should be in the squad, let alone the 23. Robertson is just hanging on at this level I reckon. He worries me as a starter.
,
Speight was better than I first thought. The backline is ponderous though. It's all very one-paced and they (Harmichael aside) don't work hard enough to make up for it. DHP was very ordinary, and Foley doesn't exactly get things whipping along. Genia was fat and slow, totally outplayed by the Fijian 9, no idea why people are giving him such rave reviews. Powell sucked, which might have made Genia look good in comparison I guess?

Higgers had a pretty good game for the most part. Bit sloppy, but did a lot of good work. Hanigan had a good start, but faded. The whole breakdown strategy was interesting, suspect they were instructed to stand off it as much as possible - especially given Cheika's halftime comments about wanting to see workrate and the defence in general improve. Hardwick was excellent when he came on though. Straight in hunting the ball - I think it's a pretty overrated aspect of the game, but it was impressive to see.

Coleman is the most important player in Australia by a mile. And probably the best. Carter is meh, he's just a guy. Arnold at least plays with some pop.

General vibe I got is that we need more pace as a team. Kuridrani is fine, but there's a limit to what we can achieve with him playing like this. It looks like a decent partnership with Hunt, who was really pretty good at 12, but it won't threaten any of the big teams, and it doesn't get the outside backs involved nearly enough. I am half serious about bringing Perese in. Not sure what other options are out there, other than something from left field like Beale or Sefa.

I agree on Moore.
And Robertson too.
On the backline I also agree on Genia. He was poor.
I think overall though it was the first hit up for the year and Id be giving players a second chance, by and large.
Izzy found his mojo which is vital. Speight was OK.
13 is a hard one. Kuridrani is an old schoo 13. Do we stick with that or trial a more Conrad Smith style there (minus the plumness)?

I watched a replay of the first half last night. The second is not up on the Tube yet.
Agree on Coleman but need to put someone with him with similar grunt(Arnold) which takes some pressure off the back row.
Robertson was trying hard and was adequate but think Sio offers a lot more. A Sio/TPN/NRMA front row is quite frankly beastly. We cannot underestimate TPNs influence in the scrum. He basically held up Robertson and dragged him along. He will free up Sio to attack the opposite TH.
Higgers was busy yet inaccurate in a lot of aspects of his play. He was not fully committed at times which made him fumble the pill or miss an opportunity for a steal or to go for a gallop. He also did some very good stuff. In one play he had a big hole in the line in front of him with an almost certain try but the ball did not come to him. He looked as though he was afraid to make a mistake. Cheika has to tell him to go for it and play his game.
Love to see Timani, Arnold and Sio come in to free up Hooper and Higgers or Hanigan.

Bring it.....

Oh, and also agree on Moore. Has to go.
We have Latu and Ready waiting in the wings. Moore is past it.

What was Cheika thinking?

dargotronV.1 wrote:

slick wrote:Did I see somewhere this was on Alba?

might be - I heard it was on Sky

It's not in the TV guide for Alba on the iPlayer. Think it's indeed Sky.

clydecloggie wrote:

dargotronV.1 wrote:

slick wrote:Did I see somewhere this was on Alba?

might be - I heard it was on Sky

It's not in the TV guide for Alba on the iPlayer. Think it's indeed Sky.

Sky Sports 1 at shít sorry six o'clock

was a very positive game vs Italy the other day for Sco. One could've feared after Cotter left, the team would lose their effectiveness and smooth execution offensively, but they looked very comfortable running and passing and ran away with it later in the game.

Australia shouldn't have to dig too deep at home vs a Sco side in transition without a few of their best items...but this could turn out to be competitive.

Dork Lard wrote:was a very positive game vs Italy the other day for Sco. One could've feared after Cotter left, the team would lose their effectiveness and smooth execution offensively, but they looked very comfortable running and passing and ran away with it later in the game.

Australia shouldn't have to dig too deep at home vs a Sco side in transition without a few of their best items...but this could turn out to be competitive.

With a grand total of 2 points separating these 2 over their last 2 matches and, IIRC, Scotland scoring more tries than Aus over those games, competitive was always on the cards.

I like your posting DL, but do try and keep up!

Scots don't stand a chance with the horse shit amateur back 3 selected.

f**king Townsend doing his Glasgow shit at Scotland. fudge sakes.

Market Square Hero wrote:

Dork Lard wrote:was a very positive game vs Italy the other day for Sco. One could've feared after Cotter left, the team would lose their effectiveness and smooth execution offensively, but they looked very comfortable running and passing and ran away with it later in the game.

Australia shouldn't have to dig too deep at home vs a Sco side in transition without a few of their best items...but this could turn out to be competitive.

With a grand total of 2 points separating these 2 over their last 2 matches and, IIRC, Scotland scoring more tries than Aus over those games, competitive was always on the cards.

I like your posting DL, but do try and keep up!

Quite true. Scotland have pushed us and sometimes beaten us the last half dozen encounters. Scotland are no longer the easy beats we once took for granted. We need our A team and to be on song if we want to win.

Troll wrote:Scots don't stand a chance with the horse shit amateur back 3 selected.

f**king Townsend doing his Glasgow shit at Scotland. fudge sakes.

I could NOT believe my eyes when I saw that back three. Utterly ridiculous, I am trying to conceive if it was possible to pick a weaker back three from the squad they have. I just can't understand why you'd do that when that is where Australia is so strong.

it offers virtually nothing going forward (only Jones stops it being actually nothing) and will be torn to shreds by Folau, Speight & co. This is not a full season, it is not necessary to rotate your team in a 3 match tour. Scotland are now massive, massive underdogs.

I woudl like to see this

Sio
TPN
Allalalalalalalalaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllltoa
Arnold
Coleman
Hanigan
Hooper
Higgers
Genia (surely he will improve)
Foley
Koroibete
Hunt
Naivalu
DHP
Fulool

Latu
Smith
Kepu
Tui
Hardwick
Powell
Cooper
Speight/Kuridrani


Now that's a backline with

Olo wrote:Oh, and also agree on Moore. Has to go.
We have Latu and Ready waiting in the wings. Moore is past it.

What was Cheika thinking?

The problem is that guys like Ready, Hanson have regressed in 2017.

They were both ordinary this year, so Cheik has to pick Moore.

I like Paul Cully's idea....transform Tongan Thor, Taniela Tupou into a hooker. fudge trying to get him to be a THP. Technical scrummaging is not his thing. Running fast, smashing plums, offloading etc are.

Get him throwing darts into Brad Thorn over the offseason and make him a hooker.

He is like a big, brown version of Dane Coles.

Scotland team named:

• Rugby - Scotland team to play Australia
  
  SYDNEY (Reuters) – Scotland coach Gregor Townsend named the following team to play Australia in a test at Sydney Football Stadium on Saturday: Scotland: 15-Greig Tonks, 14-Lee Jones, 13-Alex Dunbar, 12-Duncan Taylor, 11-Rory Hughes, 10-Finn Russell, 9-Ali Price, 8-Ryan Wilson, 7-Hamish Watson, 6-John Barclay (captain), 5-Jonny Gray, 4-Ben Toolis, 3-Zander Fagerson, 2-Fraser Brown, 1-Gordon Reid. Replacements: 16-Ross Ford, 17-Allan Dell, 18-Willem Nel, 19-Tim Swinson, 20-Josh Strauss, 21-Henry Pyrgos, 22-Ruaridh Jackson, 23-Matt Scott
  
  (Compiled by Nick Mulvenney, editing by Ian Ransom)
  
  http://www.euronews.com/2017/06/15/rugb ... -australia
  
  

Olo wrote:

Farva wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Just rewatched the Fiji game.

Stephen Moore is totally, totally, done. A total liability. He moves like a retired bricky. It's not his fault, but his legs are completely gone, he can barely move. Absolutely no way he should be in the squad, let alone the 23. Robertson is just hanging on at this level I reckon. He worries me as a starter.
,
Speight was better than I first thought. The backline is ponderous though. It's all very one-paced and they (Harmichael aside) don't work hard enough to make up for it. DHP was very ordinary, and Foley doesn't exactly get things whipping along. Genia was fat and slow, totally outplayed by the Fijian 9, no idea why people are giving him such rave reviews. Powell sucked, which might have made Genia look good in comparison I guess?

Higgers had a pretty good game for the most part. Bit sloppy, but did a lot of good work. Hanigan had a good start, but faded. The whole breakdown strategy was interesting, suspect they were instructed to stand off it as much as possible - especially given Cheika's halftime comments about wanting to see workrate and the defence in general improve. Hardwick was excellent when he came on though. Straight in hunting the ball - I think it's a pretty overrated aspect of the game, but it was impressive to see.

Coleman is the most important player in Australia by a mile. And probably the best. Carter is meh, he's just a guy. Arnold at least plays with some pop.

General vibe I got is that we need more pace as a team. Kuridrani is fine, but there's a limit to what we can achieve with him playing like this. It looks like a decent partnership with Hunt, who was really pretty good at 12, but it won't threaten any of the big teams, and it doesn't get the outside backs involved nearly enough. I am half serious about bringing Perese in. Not sure what other options are out there, other than something from left field like Beale or Sefa.

I agree on Moore.
And Robertson too.
On the backline I also agree on Genia. He was poor.
I think overall though it was the first hit up for the year and Id be giving players a second chance, by and large.
Izzy found his mojo which is vital. Speight was OK.
13 is a hard one. Kuridrani is an old schoo 13. Do we stick with that or trial a more Conrad Smith style there (minus the plumness)?

I watched a replay of the first half last night. The second is not up on the Tube yet.
Agree on Coleman but need to put someone with him with similar grunt(Arnold) which takes some pressure off the back row.
Robertson was trying hard and was adequate but think Sio offers a lot more. A Sio/TPN/NRMA front row is quite frankly beastly. We cannot underestimate TPNs influence in the scrum. He basically held up Robertson and dragged him along. He will free up Sio to attack the opposite TH.
Higgers was busy yet inaccurate in a lot of aspects of his play. He was not fully committed at times which made him fumble the pill or miss an opportunity for a steal or to go for a gallop. He also did some very good stuff. In one play he had a big hole in the line in front of him with an almost certain try but the ball did not come to him. He looked as though he was afraid to make a mistake. Cheika has to tell him to go for it and play his game.
Love to see Timani, Arnold and Sio come in to free up Hooper and Higgers or Hanigan.

Bring it.....

Get on acrossthetasman. Actually, when I get some time this afternoon I'm going to make a couple of gifs this afternoon showing how busted Moore is. Spot on about TPN btw, there were a couple of scrums where he dragged Robertson across the line.

I almost think Higgers was trying too hard? Pushed things a little bit, led to some errors. Did enough to keep his spot IMO.

Just been watching highlights of Perese in the U20s, and I am now firmly on the bandwagon. He is our long term 13. And I reckon get him in now and see if he is ready. Worst that can happen is he goes back to the U20s for another season.
Can he defend?

Reckon having him there instead of Kuridrani will see a much more explosive backline, especially with him outside of Hunt.

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:Now that's a backline with

I can dig it mad dog, good looking team.

Wylie Coyote wrote:I just can't understand why you'd do that when that is where Australia is so strong.

Don't really get this. Our back three is poor. Folau just had his first seriously good game in a long time, but both wings are very ordinary.

Farva wrote:Just been watching highlights of Perese in the U20s, and I am now firmly on the bandwagon. He is our long term 13. And I reckon get him in now and see if he is ready. Worst that can happen is he goes back to the U20s for another season.
Can he defend?

Reckon having him there instead of Kuridrani will see a much more explosive backline, especially with him outside of Hunt.

CHOO CHOO!

Team named, identical to last week save Eto Nabuli coming in for Speight

I really do wonder sometimes if Cheika has access to some A grade pharmaceuticals.

The fiji wings are being rotated. so we will see Koribiete against Italy I guess. Otherwise I guess Chieka has his team locked in place.

Would have preferred Arnold to Carter, and Sio for Robertson. But otherwise it would be good to get the guys used to playing together.