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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:56 am 
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Hawk97 wrote:
Toro wrote:
Every team does it, we just don't bother to disguise it, like most things every other team endeavours to do. This annoys you, we get it.


Fixed.


So you're it's fine as long as we disguise it better?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:07 am 
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Aside from the running into kick chaser's path, this is what NZ sides are doing. Pretending to be committed on runners without ball, thus stopping support. Cynical stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:47 am 
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Blatant blocking of the Lions tackler putting pressure on kicker.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:49 am 
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Do you wankers ever stop complaining?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:52 am 
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Kid A wrote:
Blatant blocking of the Lions tackler putting pressure on kicker.

Image


That's a disgusting high tackle by Murray off the ball.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:55 am 
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Toro wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Blatant blocking of the Lions tackler putting pressure on kicker.

Image


That's a disgusting high tackle by Murray off the ball.


What's Black 13 doing running in front of his player with the ball?
Is it a special move?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.


There would be a penalty every minute.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:05 pm 
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To start with. Then people would adjust and stop deliberately breaking the laws.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Flametop wrote:
Toro wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Blatant blocking of the Lions tackler putting pressure on kicker.

Image


That's a disgusting high tackle by Murray off the ball.


What's Black 13 doing running in front of his player with the ball?
Is it a special move?



15, he's running sideways as he can't advance. Murray tackles him.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.

Would be a penalty every 15 seconds. There's at least one infringement every single phase. Could pretty much give away a couple of penalties each way at any given ruck.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Dumbledore wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.

Would be a penalty every 15 seconds. There's at least one infringement every single phase. Could pretty much give away a couple of penalties each way at any given ruck.


Would start with the kick-off with players being in front. Would not get any better.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Dumbledore wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.

Would be a penalty every 15 seconds. There's at least one infringement every single phase. Could pretty much give away a couple of penalties each way at any given ruck.


What's the point in having these laws then?

And what is the point in coaches spending hours trying to instill discipline into their players, if the game is just officiated at random?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Kid A wrote:
Dumbledore wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.

Would be a penalty every 15 seconds. There's at least one infringement every single phase. Could pretty much give away a couple of penalties each way at any given ruck.


What's the point in having these laws then?

And what is the point in coaches spending hours trying to instill discipline into their players, if the game is just officiated at random?


Well, it depends on who is the better team.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Thomas wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here:
https://streamable.com/xz358


Yup that's not good!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Kid A wrote:
Dumbledore wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.

Would be a penalty every 15 seconds. There's at least one infringement every single phase. Could pretty much give away a couple of penalties each way at any given ruck.


What's the point in having these laws then?

And what is the point in coaches spending hours trying to instill discipline into their players, if the game is just officiated at random?


At random? It's called materiality. They don't always get it right but the sport would be unwatchable if they stopped to look at everything. And...the team that plays rugby the best would still win.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Dumbledore wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.

Would be a penalty every 15 seconds. There's at least one infringement every single phase. Could pretty much give away a couple of penalties each way at any given ruck.

I used the word "deliberate" deliberately. There doesn't have to be a deliberate offence every 15 seconds. I don't think there's any intrinsic reason why an AI shouldn't be able to pick up on the anomalies in behaviour that indicate malice aforethought.

More problematic is adjudging materiality in non-deliberate offences. I think technology could reduce these considerably - by drawing the tackle area circle, the gate, the offside line etc. on the pitch so the player knows where exactly the AI considers them to be, and can know also when the AI considers we've moved from one phase of play to another.

It'd be awesome, trust me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Denirostaxidriver wrote:
Dumbledore wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.

Would be a penalty every 15 seconds. There's at least one infringement every single phase. Could pretty much give away a couple of penalties each way at any given ruck.


Would start with the kick-off with players being in front. Would not get any better.

You think that if it was guaranteed that players in front at the kick-off would get called, players would continue to risk being in front at the kick-off?

They wouldn't. They'd adjust their behaviour to make damn sure they didn't go in front.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:17 pm 
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Mahoney wrote:
Denirostaxidriver wrote:
Dumbledore wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
Leaving accusations about which side does it more / more effectively, it's just not possible for human beings to pick up on all this crap in real time. I'm more and more convinced that rugby desperately needs AI. I'd quite like to see what rugby looks like in a world where deliberate law breaking is always seen and treated appropriately.

Would be a penalty every 15 seconds. There's at least one infringement every single phase. Could pretty much give away a couple of penalties each way at any given ruck.


Would start with the kick-off with players being in front. Would not get any better.

You think that if it was guaranteed that players in front at the kick-off would get called, players would continue to risk being in front at the kick-off?

They wouldn't. They'd adjust their behaviour to make damn sure they didn't go in front.


Indeed. Pretty soon people would be passing the ball backwards too.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:22 pm 
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I find the Lions tactic of screaming like banshees at every defensive lineout offensive, morally reprehensible, and against the spirit of the game.

How do I tell my children that the "crazy men" are shrieking because they are attempting to deliberately obstruct their opponents from playing the game? That we have to accept it because even though it's obnoxious gamesmanship that forces me to ride the volume control (kept high on game day so we can all enjoy Robbie Williams and the Black Eyed Peas during yet another Lions "injury break") it's all just "part of the game"?

Hopefully Hansen addresses it at the next press conference


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:23 pm 
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naki wrote:
I find the Lions tactic of screaming like banshees at every defensive lineout offensive, morally reprehensible, and against the spirit of the game.

How do I tell my children that the "crazy men" are shrieking because they are attempting to deliberately obstruct their opponents from playing the game? That we have to accept it because even though it's obnoxious gamesmanship that forces me to ride the volume control (kept high on game day so we can all enjoy Robbie Williams and the Black Eyed Peas during yet another Lions "injury break") it's all just "part of the game"?

Hopefully Hansen addresses it at the next press conference


I'm now picturing Hansen trying to give a press conference while Itoje and co start screaming every time he tries to say something :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Yes the constant appealing to the ref is very european like. Very soccer like. As a moral guardian it disgusts me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:25 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
naki wrote:
I find the Lions tactic of screaming like banshees at every defensive lineout offensive, morally reprehensible, and against the spirit of the game.

How do I tell my children that the "crazy men" are shrieking because they are attempting to deliberately obstruct their opponents from playing the game? That we have to accept it because even though it's obnoxious gamesmanship that forces me to ride the volume control (kept high on game day so we can all enjoy Robbie Williams and the Black Eyed Peas during yet another Lions "injury break") it's all just "part of the game"?

Hopefully Hansen addresses it at the next press conference


I'm now picturing Hansen trying to give a press conference while Itoje and co start screaming every time he tries to say something :lol:


😱


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Indeed, how long before one of these Lions players lays a hand on the ref like the Eurotrash soccer players?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:23 pm 
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grubberkick wrote:
Watching the games I have noticed Lions players following up on kicks ahead being blocked by kiwis seeming to deliberately run into their path. This was obvious a few times in the Maori game. I now read that Gatland has been bringing this up with refs. Is it a deliberate tactic or is Gatland getting in first? Sure to be a hot topic for refs in the tests.

:uhoh:

Not sure if that question is serious or not? Any team that doesn't partake in some sort of deliberate blocking are stupid. 100% of blocking will never be picked up by the ref and probably a good portion of what the ref notices will be judged as being not worth penalising.

So teams are coached to do just enough to put players off yet not cross the line into penalty and as some of the clips show here, it is remarkably effective.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Toro wrote:
Flametop wrote:
Toro wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Blatant blocking of the Lions tackler putting pressure on kicker.

Image


That's a disgusting high tackle by Murray off the ball.


What's Black 13 doing running in front of his player with the ball?
Is it a special move?



15, he's running sideways as he can't advance. Murray tackles him.


why is he running sideways?

could it be that he's looking to impede Murray?

part of the problem with posters like Toro, is that he cannot bring himself to admit Lowe was blatantly cheating. And there are numerous similar examples during the Maori, Highlanders and Crusaders games.

all the Lions fans would fully accept that AWJ should have been pinged for Warburtons try ...... so the kiwis constantly bringing it up as a defence of their own cynical blocking tactics is just fecking sad really.....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Plus Lions fans all remember the targeted blocking of Lewis Moody on restarts back in 2005. It was a blatant tactic. Up there with dodgy Aussie scrummaging, Kiwi taking people out beyond the ruck, and English, um, I'll think of something and edit this post


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:36 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
Toro wrote:
Flametop wrote:
Toro wrote:
Kid A wrote:
Blatant blocking of the Lions tackler putting pressure on kicker.

Image


That's a disgusting high tackle by Murray off the ball.


What's Black 13 doing running in front of his player with the ball?
Is it a special move?



15, he's running sideways as he can't advance. Murray tackles him.


why is he running sideways?

could it be that he's looking to impede Murray?

part of the problem with posters like Toro, is that he cannot bring himself to admit Lowe was blatantly cheating. And there are numerous similar examples during the Maori, Highlanders and Crusaders games.

all the Lions fans would fully accept that AWJ should have been pinged for Warburtons try ...... so the kiwis constantly bringing it up as a defence of their own cynical blocking tactics is just fecking sad really.....


Ol' flappy flappersome :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Only useful thing Lowe did all night. :blush:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Only useful thing Lowe did all night. :blush:


Haha pretty much. :lol: :frown:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Nothing in that.

Running back into position. What the heck was he doing in the lineout?

Now the neck roll is another matter...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:
Toro wrote:
Every team does it, we just don't bother to disguise it, like most things every other team endeavours to do. This annoys you, we get it.


Fixed.


So you're it's fine as long as we disguise it better?


Where have I said it wasn't fine? I said I don't blame the players doing it and that officials should be the ones to decide the appropriate action.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Kid A wrote:
Blatant blocking of the Lions tackler putting pressure on kicker.

Image


:lol: :lol:

That's the one. That's incredible.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Kid A wrote:
Aside from the running into kick chaser's path, this is what NZ sides are doing. Pretending to be committed on runners without ball, thus stopping support. Cynical stuff.


Image



Did 7 have a pen award against him or a YC? Any input from the TMO regarding the infringement or do they mainly concentrate on helping the ref to get the precise location of any decisions that he has made for kicks at goal?
Even changed his line to take the Lion out.


Last edited by grubberkick on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:37 pm 
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Hawk97 wrote:
Santa wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:
Toro wrote:
Every team does it, we just don't bother to disguise it, like most things every other team endeavours to do. This annoys you, we get it.


Fixed.


So you're it's fine as long as we disguise it better?


Where have I said it wasn't fine? I said I don't blame the players doing it and that officials should be the ones to decide the appropriate action.


They did decide the appropriate action. :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:
Santa wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:
Toro wrote:
Every team does it, we just don't bother to disguise it, like most things every other team endeavours to do. This annoys you, we get it.


Fixed.


So you're it's fine as long as we disguise it better?


Where have I said it wasn't fine? I said I don't blame the players doing it and that officials should be the ones to decide the appropriate action.


They did decide the appropriate action. :?


On what occasion?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:38 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:
Toro wrote:
Every team does it, we just don't bother to disguise it, like most things every other team endeavours to do. This annoys you, we get it.


Fixed.



If you took off your eye patch you'd see your own team doing it.

But....


Did you not see the bit where I left in "every team does it". Lahoo-saherr!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Hawk97 wrote:

On what occasion?


On each occasion they they did something. Or didn't do anything.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:40 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:

On what occasion?


On each occasion they they did something. Or didn't do anything.


Disagree about "appropriate" though. The Naholo try should have been brought back. Any sane rugby fan knows this, but I wasn't complaining as we thoroughly deserved to get beaten. That was a block though, and fair play to him for getting away with it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Hawk97 wrote:
Santa wrote:
Hawk97 wrote:

On what occasion?


On each occasion they they did something. Or didn't do anything.


Disagree about "appropriate" though. The Naholo try should have been brought back. Any sane rugby fan knows this, but I wasn't complaining as we thoroughly deserved to get beaten. That was a block though, and fair play to him for getting away with it.


So can we agree that it works and influences results and is worth persevering with despite the additional coaching workload? Wonder which coach deals with it, attacking defence?


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