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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:10 am 
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Watching the games I have noticed Lions players following up on kicks ahead being blocked by kiwis seeming to deliberately run into their path. This was obvious a few times in the Maori game. I now read that Gatland has been bringing this up with refs. Is it a deliberate tactic or is Gatland getting in first? Sure to be a hot topic for refs in the tests.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:12 am 
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grubberkick wrote:
Watching the games I have noticed Lions players following up on kicks ahead being blocked by kiwis seeming to deliberately run into their path. This was obvious a few times in the Maori game. I now read that Gatland has been bringing this up with refs. Is it a deliberate tactic or is Gatland getting in first? Sure to be a hot topic for refs in the tests.


You are certainly not getting in first with reporting this. I assume it is still on the front page.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:15 am 
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I'm just going to leave this here:
https://streamable.com/xz358


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:16 am 
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I've been saying it for 2 weeks ...... to howls of kiwi preciousness


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:17 am 
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rfurlong wrote:
I've been saying it for 2 weeks ...... to howls of kiwi preciousness

Must be in response to your howls of preciousness.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:17 am 
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Denirostaxidriver wrote:
grubberkick wrote:
Watching the games I have noticed Lions players following up on kicks ahead being blocked by kiwis seeming to deliberately run into their path. This was obvious a few times in the Maori game. I now read that Gatland has been bringing this up with refs. Is it a deliberate tactic or is Gatland getting in first? Sure to be a hot topic for refs in the tests.


You are certainly not getting in first with reporting this. I assume it is still on the front page.


Tah. Been away from the bored for a while. It was something that I noticed and so wasn't surprised that it had been picked up by the Lions. Seems to have been a lot more to it than simple line blocking and so a deliberate plan is likely...... but how unsubtle can players get. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:19 am 
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rfurlong wrote:
I've been saying it for 2 weeks ...... to howls of kiwi preciousness


No. All you have been doing is complaining for 2 weeks. It has been pathetic.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:20 am 
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rfurlong wrote:
I've been saying it for 2 weeks ...... to howls of kiwi preciousness


Hey, isn't that before kickoff in the first game? ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:20 am 
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Thomas wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here:
https://streamable.com/xz358


:lol: :thumbup:

Happened a few times to McKenzie as well last Saturday. It happens. Generally easy to spot.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:23 am 
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Holy shit - every team does that you softcock.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:37 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
Holy shit - every team does that you softcock.


Every team in NZ having a general game plan of obstruction and pulling back from start to finish is game changing when it comes to Lions playing in NZ. No wonder the ref appeared to turn a blind eye when it came to that match winning try in the recent game. Par for the course in NZ? :|


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:46 am 
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It's not really any different to having 3-4 forwards shielding the halfback from charge downs while he has a cup of tea in between box kicks


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:49 am 
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rfurlong wrote:
I've been saying it for 2 weeks ...... to howls of kiwi preciousness



So...it's now kiwi preciousness that the paddies are whinging? :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:51 am 
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Some fans have been making heavy use of this site.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:51 am 
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deadduck wrote:
It's not really any different to having 3-4 forwards shielding the halfback from charge downs while he has a cup of tea in between box kicks

Apart from players moving into lines while the ball is in the air with the specific intent of blocking a particular runner, sure, not any different.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:52 am 
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grubberkick wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Holy shit - every team does that you softcock.


Every team in NZ having a general game plan of obstruction and pulling back from start to finish is game changing when it comes to Lions playing in NZ. No wonder the ref appeared to turn a blind eye when it came to that match winning try in the recent game. Par for the course in NZ? :|



EVERY team, including yours, does it. They would be very poorly coached if they didn't protect their team mates in those situations.

The things I hate is when guys go all exocet on the pillars leaving the way open for a run through the subsequent gap


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:53 am 
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deadduck wrote:
It's not really any different to having 3-4 forwards shielding the halfback from charge downs while he has a cup of tea in between box kicks


Simply standing your ground isn't obstruction, but there is a whole catalogue of other nefarious activities that some teams may be particularly good at if Gatland is to be taken at face value.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:54 am 
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Can we at least wait until the match day before you blokes have your traditional meltdown about the ref.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:54 am 
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Thomas wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here:
https://streamable.com/xz358

:lol: FFS. It really is a blight on the game, would be so easy to fix as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:56 am 
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Yes, 'Kiwi blocking' is a deliberate tactic as is 'Pommie blocking'.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:57 am 
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mr bungle wrote:
Thomas wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here:
https://streamable.com/xz358


:lol: :thumbup:

Happened a few times to McKenzie as well last Saturday. It happens. Generally easy to spot.


Rather paradoxically, I've been screaming for more clearing out to the side to open the hole in the middle of the ruck all tour. Thing is, like blocking, it's only illegal if the ref pings it!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:57 am 
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grimoald wrote:
deadduck wrote:
It's not really any different to having 3-4 forwards shielding the halfback from charge downs while he has a cup of tea in between box kicks

Apart from players moving into lines while the ball is in the air with the specific intent of blocking a particular runner, sure, not any different.

As opposed to players moving into a position to block a specific player(s) from having an attempt at charging down a box kick (i.e playing the ball). I can see the comparison.

I find the coach/team raising these issues through the media usually has a few concerns with their own capability. Gatland seems to have a lot to say lately.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:58 am 
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In response to the OP, I should bloody hope so.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:59 am 
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deadduck wrote:
It's not really any different to having 3-4 forwards shielding the halfback from charge downs while he has a cup of tea in between box kicks


To be fair it's very different. You're not offside if bound in the screen position and have no obligation to move.

On blocking support runners more generally, NZ teams do it all the time. All pro teams, inc the Lions, and most decent amateur ones do it as well. There should be more pens for it really.

But what is noticeable watching more kiwi teams than normal is that NZ support players seem to expect and deal with it. They fight like offensive linemen to get in a useful support position rather chuck their hands in the air and look at the ref/AR. If there is a defender between the ball carrier and themselves they'll cut and get on the other shoulder instead of hoping the ball carrier can pull off a low percentage pass. It's quite impressive.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:01 am 
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Jake wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Thomas wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here:
https://streamable.com/xz358


:lol: :thumbup:

Happened a few times to McKenzie as well last Saturday. It happens. Generally easy to spot.


Rather paradoxically, I've been screaming for more clearing out to the side to open the hole in the middle of the ruck all tour. Thing is, like blocking, it's only illegal if the ref pings it!


Or only illegal if the ref (a) sees it and (b) chooses to do anything about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:02 am 
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grubberkick wrote:
Jake wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Thomas wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here:
https://streamable.com/xz358


:lol: :thumbup:

Happened a few times to McKenzie as well last Saturday. It happens. Generally easy to spot.


Rather paradoxically, I've been screaming for more clearing out to the side to open the hole in the middle of the ruck all tour. Thing is, like blocking, it's only illegal if the ref pings it!


Or only illegal if the ref (a) sees it and (b) chooses to do anything about it.


Correct.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:08 am 
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Tim. wrote:
deadduck wrote:
It's not really any different to having 3-4 forwards shielding the halfback from charge downs while he has a cup of tea in between box kicks


To be fair it's very different. You're not offside if bound in the screen position and have no obligation to move.




Bound being the operative word

Most players aren't properly bound, they just stand there with one hand on the ruck

Example

Image


Last edited by deadduck on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:08 am 
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Thomas wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here:
https://streamable.com/xz358

He had hold of the player on the ground the whole time. He was just cleaning out. How could anyone think he ran pass the ruck into the kiwi player to block him


Last edited by Anonymous. on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:09 am 
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Anyone got any numbers around rates of blockage running per game per team properly ranked so that we can understand the scale of New Zealand's perfidy?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:11 am 
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Santa wrote:
Anyone got any numbers around rates of blockage running per game per team properly ranked so that we can understand the scale of New Zealand's perfidy?


Enzedder is well up on it? ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:18 am 
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I think the lions offside line requires more scrutiny


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:19 am 
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I am disgusted and sickened by the suggestion.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:27 am 
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Yes, it's been very noticeable. Again, I don't blame players trying to find an advantage.

There was an extraordinary one with the Maoris. Maori kicker goes to clear (inside own try line) with a Lions chaser. Another Maori player literally runs across, off his wing, directly into the line of the lions chaser and is tackled :lol:

I think Peyper did bring it up though


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:32 am 
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Most teams do it, but refs generally ignore it. It's pretty frustrating when it happens.

Given the Lions tactics it's hardly surprising that Gatland is raising the issue & hopefully they do something about it. It's blatant cheating.

Re the offside line - that goes both ways too.. the entire opposing teams have been offside at times against the Lions at times.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:36 am 
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Every team does it, we just do it better, like most things every other team endeavours to do. This annoys you, we get it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:39 am 
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Toro wrote:
Every team does it, we just don't bother to disguise it, like most things every other team endeavours to do. This annoys you, we get it.


Fixed.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:45 am 
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Dont be silly...its a NH tactic where the attacking player deliberately runs into a defender on a kick chase in hope of winning an all important penalty to have a shot at goal.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:45 am 
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We already have a thread for this discussion here.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:46 am 
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I understand the motivation to raise it. Bob Dwyer was so successful ahead of the England Australia clash in RWC 2015 with his Pythagoras Marler piece others will look to follow suit.

Doubtlessly Hansen, the Kiwi media and countless scornful baristas will be sharing their own views with the refs ahead of the tests.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:47 am 
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Hawk97 wrote:
Toro wrote:
Every team does it, we just don't bother to disguise it, like most things every other team endeavours to do. This annoys you, we get it.


Fixed.



If you took off your eye patch you'd see your own team doing it.

But....


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