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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:51 pm 
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We've seen a lot of people in the media proudly stating that we are a multicultural society, but what do they actually mean?

Is just that we have a lot of different cultures in the UK?

Or are they implying that we have several cultures that are wonderfully integrated and respectful of each other?

If it's the first, then obviously that's a fact, but I think the second is very much debatable.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:55 pm 
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I'm glad you asked.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:56 pm 
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It's a society in which people from several different cultures co-exist while maintaining the attributes of a civil society and the rule of law. That doesn't mean there's no friction, it doesn't even mean there can't be real conflict; just that things generally hang together, and most people rub along ok.

Yes.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:59 pm 
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koroke hangareka wrote:
It's a society in which people from several different cultures co-exist while maintaining the attributes of a civil society and the rule of law. That doesn't mean there's no friction, it doesn't even mean there can't be real conflict; just that things generally hang together, and most people rub along ok.

Yes.


So that's point one then.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Is that really something to be proud of, and can we do better?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:06 pm 
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koroke hangareka wrote:
It's a society in which people from several different cultures co-exist while maintaining the attributes of a civil society and the rule of law. That doesn't mean there's no friction, it doesn't even mean there can't be real conflict; just that things generally hang together, and most people rub along ok.

Yes.



If so, then South Africa is a multi cultural society. Of a sorts.
With a seemingly abundant friction and conflict, they actually get things going along.

In a way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:09 pm 
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cubby boi wrote:
Is that really something to be proud of, and can we do better?


Have you ever lived in any kind of society? No of course we can't. We can do different, maybe. The society I grew up in was for the most part cohesive, homogenous, (or at least if you weren't homogenous you bloody well pretended to be) and egalitarian. Sometimes I kind of miss it. But it was bloody boring.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:13 pm 
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What is a multicultural society?



A lie.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:21 pm 
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koroke hangareka wrote:
cubby boi wrote:
Is that really something to be proud of, and can we do better?


Have you ever lived in any kind of society? No of course we can't. We can do different, maybe. The society I grew up in was for the most part cohesive, homogenous, (or at least if you weren't homogenous you bloody well pretended to be) and egalitarian. Sometimes I kind of miss it. But it was bloody boring.


You're coming across as a bit of a keyboard warrior, so i'll respectfuly decline to answer you. I am left unsure however whether your respect for other cultures is genuine given your bitter reposts on an Internet forum. Where was this society in which you grew up?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:31 pm 
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cubby boi wrote:
koroke hangareka wrote:
cubby boi wrote:
Is that really something to be proud of, and can we do better?


Have you ever lived in any kind of society? No of course we can't. We can do different, maybe. The society I grew up in was for the most part cohesive, homogenous, (or at least if you weren't homogenous you bloody well pretended to be) and egalitarian. Sometimes I kind of miss it. But it was bloody boring.


You're coming across as a bit of a keyboard warrior, so i'll respectfuly decline to answer you. I am left unsure however whether your respect for other cultures is genuine given your bitter reposts on an Internet forum. Where was this society in which you grew up?


Eh? However I'll answer you, it was New Zealand (South Island) in the 1960s and early 1970s. Though the whole thing was getting a bit more interesting in the '70s.Where do you get "keyboard warrior" or "bitter"?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Any society which contains both me and any woman with whom I could stand a reasonable chance of getting off with, should she be desperate enough and who isn't named Mary or Brigid, is multicultural.

I find this definition nails it every time as it's all about me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Hellraiser wrote:
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What is a multicultural society?



A lie.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:38 pm 
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What's a culture? What's a society?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
What's a culture? What's a society?



Three people inhabiting approximately ajoining space.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:44 pm 
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You are not a multi cultural society unless you have had a recent terrorist attack.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:51 pm 
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The problem is not all cultures are equal. We have a fundamentalist religious culture with inherent homophobia and endemic corruption that simply isn’t compatible with an outward looking liberal Britain. It’s even worse now that they are propping up the government in Westminster.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Calculus wrote:
The problem is not all cultures are equal. We have a fundamentalist religious culture with inherent homophobia and endemic corruption that simply isn’t compatible with an outward looking liberal Britain. It’s even worse now that they are propping up the government in Westminster.


Robert Kilroy Silk


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:03 pm 
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There are definitions for this stuff so rather than sit around and make your own up why not look.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
What's a culture? What's a society?


Good questions...

Anyway, if a multicultural society is just a society in which multiple cultures live then (almost) all societies are multicultural so the definition becomes trivial and meaningless.

The question is, does it mean more than that and if so what?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:17 pm 
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I don't think I have ever seen anyone come on TV and proclaim some cultural nirvana where everyone lives in complete harmony.

Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.

And that's never going to be perfect....or attainable.

Think of it like this forum - a mish mash of numerous cultures, religions, race and opinions. Most of the time we all crack on - share a laugh, a drink, an experience, a tragedy. We argue, bicker, fight and pick sides.

But in general - 95% of the people on here would be happy to share a beer with the person on the other side of the screen because we all share a love of rugby - we have a common ground.

It's that 5% that make it a negative experience for some people.

That 5% who want to create division and enjoy the fires they ignite.

That's society.

Even if every single person on this forum was a white, middle class, male, Church of England, English rugby supporter....there'd still be that small percentage who'd want to create sh*t and watch stuff burn.

Human Beings innit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Quote:
Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.


But whats the point of it? Who gains from it?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Quote:
Multiculturalism as a political philosophy involves ideologies and policies which vary widely, ranging from the advocacy of equal respect to the various cultures in a society, to policies of promoting the maintenance of cultural diversity, to policies in which people of various ethnic and religious groups are addressed .


Wiki.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:43 pm 
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slick wrote:
Quote:
Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.


But whats the point of it? Who gains from it?


Well if every human was a decent person - then we'd all gain from it.

A shared experience of culture, religion, music, food, art, language....blah blah blah.

But humans are incapable of doing this as one large group.....so a few ruin it for the many.

Multiculturalism works the same as Nationalism - elevates some things to a high level - but ultimately falls down due to the scum that exploit it or try to destroy/undermine it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Gazzamonster wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.


But whats the point of it? Who gains from it?


Well if every human was a decent person - then we'd all gain from it.

A shared experience of culture, religion, music, food, art, language....blah blah blah.

But humans are incapable of doing this as one large group.....so a few ruin it for the many.

Multiculturalism works the same as Nationalism - elevates some things to a high level - but ultimately falls down due to the scum that exploit it or try to destroy/undermine it.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:50 pm 
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It's made up shit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Gazzamonster wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.


But whats the point of it? Who gains from it?


Well if every human was a decent person - then we'd all gain from it.

A shared experience of culture, religion, music, food, art, language....blah blah blah.

But humans are incapable of doing this as one large group.....so a few ruin it for the many.

Multiculturalism works the same as Nationalism - elevates some things to a high level - but ultimately falls down due to the scum that exploit it or try to destroy/undermine it.


Gain from what? You haven't even established what it is yet? Is it just a bunch of slightly different people living in the same area?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:07 pm 
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To accept the fact that multiculturalism can not work, is to accept the fact that other people are either inferior or superior to yourself. It's to accept the fact that you do not want to get on with people who are different to you, or people you do not want to share your area/country with. There is absolutely no reason why multiculturalism can not work if people forget their prejudices and work together to make their community better. Yes, there will always be a few racist idiots from all backgrounds, but they are the minority and should not be allowed to dictate to the majority.

I for one have never shied away from multiculturalism, as many women from around the world can testify. Black, white, brown, yellow and all shades in between has never made any difference to me. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Gazzamonster wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.


But whats the point of it? Who gains from it?


Well if every human was a decent person - then we'd all gain from it.

A shared experience of culture, religion, music, food, art, language....blah blah blah.

But humans are incapable of doing this as one large group.....so a few ruin it for the many.

Multiculturalism works the same as Nationalism - elevates some things to a high level - but ultimately falls down due to the scum that exploit it or try to destroy/undermine it.


Gain from what? You haven't even established what it is yet? Is it just a bunch of slightly different people living in the same area?


If you struggle to understand what can be gained from spending time with people from different cultures, races, religions etc etc then there is no point in having the discussion with you regarding multiculturalism.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:15 pm 
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easyray wrote:
To accept the fact that multiculturalism can not work, is to accept the fact that other people are either inferior or superior to yourself. It's to accept the fact that you do not want to get on with people who are different to you, or people you do not want to share your area/country with. There is absolutely no reason why multiculturalism can not work if people forget their prejudices and work together to make their community better. Yes, there will always be a few racist idiots from all backgrounds, but they are the minority and should not be allowed to dictate to the majority.

I for one have never shied away from multiculturalism, as many women from around the world can testify. Black, white, brown, yellow and all shades in between has never made any difference to me. 8)



Nonsense.
I love to experience other cultures, share ideas, ideologies, foods, etc.

At the same time I am an ardent "volksnasionalis", an almost mad ethnic and cultural identity is seen as the ultimate.

These are NOT incompatible.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Gazzamonster wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.


But whats the point of it? Who gains from it?


Well if every human was a decent person - then we'd all gain from it.

A shared experience of culture, religion, music, food, art, language....blah blah blah.

But humans are incapable of doing this as one large group.....so a few ruin it for the many.

Multiculturalism works the same as Nationalism - elevates some things to a high level - but ultimately falls down due to the scum that exploit it or try to destroy/undermine it.


What it people just don't want it? Just like the way their life is without it. They are scum?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:20 pm 
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slick wrote:
Gazzamonster wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.


But whats the point of it? Who gains from it?


Well if every human was a decent person - then we'd all gain from it.

A shared experience of culture, religion, music, food, art, language....blah blah blah.

But humans are incapable of doing this as one large group.....so a few ruin it for the many.

Multiculturalism works the same as Nationalism - elevates some things to a high level - but ultimately falls down due to the scum that exploit it or try to destroy/undermine it.


What it people just don't want it? Just like the way their life is without it. They are scum?


Are they exploiting it? Are they actively trying to destroy or undermine it?

I would question why they wouldn't want to mix with other cultures - that's a bit.....xenophobia-y


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Are these faces in the media actually talking about the right thing when they talk about culture? Should they actually be talking about religions?
It seems to me that religion is the reason that we will never be truly multicultural, integrated and respectful to each other, simply because these religious types put their religion above all else, and that religion teaches them to be exactly the opposite. Sure, the vast majority of Muslims won't be strapping a vest to themselves, but they still look at the way the rest of us live our lives in disdain, hold views such as homophobia etc which go against not only our culture but also our laws. They want to discriminate and segregate themselves. For example the VAST majority of Muslim woman would not step out with a non muslim man, never mind marry one.

So what's the solution to that?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Gazzamonster wrote:
slick wrote:
Gazzamonster wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
Multiculturalism isn't the promised land. It is hard work that requires empathy, respect, awareness and intelligence from a large group of people.


But whats the point of it? Who gains from it?


Well if every human was a decent person - then we'd all gain from it.

A shared experience of culture, religion, music, food, art, language....blah blah blah.

But humans are incapable of doing this as one large group.....so a few ruin it for the many.

Multiculturalism works the same as Nationalism - elevates some things to a high level - but ultimately falls down due to the scum that exploit it or try to destroy/undermine it.


What it people just don't want it? Just like the way their life is without it. They are scum?


Are they exploiting it? Are they actively trying to destroy or undermine it?

I would question why they wouldn't want to mix with other cultures - that's a bit.....xenophobia-y


I don't think you have thought about it enough.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:55 pm 
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easyray wrote:
To accept the fact that multiculturalism can not work, is to accept the fact that other people are either inferior or superior to yourself. It's to accept the fact that you do not want to get on with people who are different to you, or people you do not want to share your area/country with. There is absolutely no reason why multiculturalism can not work if people forget their prejudices and work together to make their community better. Yes, there will always be a few racist idiots from all backgrounds, but they are the minority and should not be allowed to dictate to the majority.

I for one have never shied away from multiculturalism, as many women from around the world can testify. Black, white, brown, yellow and all shades in between has never made any difference to me. 8)

Ah yes, the old 'do they have a pulse' technique. I can respect that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Something "progressive" liberals thought was a must-have and a defining characteristic of a place (I'm hesitant to say "nation")? I quite like the fact that I have Kiwi, Aussie, Polish, German and African friends without the need to label the practice of existing with them as "multi cultural".


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:01 pm 
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easyray wrote:
To accept the fact that multiculturalism can not work, is to accept the fact that other people are either inferior or superior to yourself. It's to accept the fact that you do not want to get on with people who are different to you, or people you do not want to share your area/country with. There is absolutely no reason why multiculturalism can not work if people forget their prejudices and work together to make their community better. Yes, there will always be a few racist idiots from all backgrounds, but they are the minority and should not be allowed to dictate to the majority.

I for one have never shied away from multiculturalism, as many women from around the world can testify. Black, white, brown, yellow and all shades in between has never made any difference to me. 8)


The mighty $ eh?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Hawk97 wrote:
Something "progressive" liberals thought was a must-have and a defining characteristic of a place (I'm hesitant to say "nation")? I quite like the fact that I have Kiwi, Aussie, Polish, German and African friends without the need to label the practice of existing with them as "multi cultural".


Are they all white? Not trying to trick you, just asking.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:04 pm 
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slick wrote:

I don't think you have thought about it enough.


Um.....what?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:08 pm 
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cubby boi wrote:
Are these faces in the media actually talking about the right thing when they talk about culture? Should they actually be talking about religions?
It seems to me that religion is the reason that we will never be truly multicultural, integrated and respectful to each other, simply because these religious types put their religion above all else, and that religion teaches them to be exactly the opposite. Sure, the vast majority of Muslims won't be strapping a vest to themselves, but they still look at the way the rest of us live our lives in disdain, hold views such as homophobia etc which go against not only our culture but also our laws. They want to discriminate and segregate themselves. For example the VAST majority of Muslim woman would not step out with a non muslim man, never mind marry one.

So what's the solution to that?


Yeah nah....I'm not engaging with you.

Bye.


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