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 Post subject: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:20 am 
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So then, first born is looking at her second year of secondary school and she wants to do dance as a subject. Since when has dance been a subject worth study? Flaming NCEA handing out credits like lollies, I now need to convince her to opt for subjects that might actually help her or at least teach her something useful.

What on earth are we doing to our education system where dance is seen as a valuable path of study, surely this should be extra curricular.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:32 am 
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Brabus wrote:
So then, first born is looking at her second year of secondary school and she wants to do dance as a subject. Since when has dance been a subject worth study? Flaming NCEA handing out credits like lollies, I now need to convince her to opt for subjects that might actually help her or at least teach her something useful.

What on earth are we doing to our education system where dance is seen as a valuable path of study, surely this should be extra curricular.

Only do if she would be good at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:43 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Brabus wrote:
So then, first born is looking at her second year of secondary school and she wants to do dance as a subject. Since when has dance been a subject worth study? Flaming NCEA handing out credits like lollies, I now need to convince her to opt for subjects that might actually help her or at least teach her something useful.

What on earth are we doing to our education system where dance is seen as a valuable path of study, surely this should be extra curricular.

Only do if she would be good at it.


Oh she'll be good at it but that's not entirely the point, school should be about academic pursuits, dance, whilst a valid art form won't exactly set her up for a career, I guess it's one of those moments where you look back on your own life and realise that having fun isn't necessarily the most important thing. Still trying to make a 14 year old understand that is a whole other story. I would offer to put her into classes out of school but that wont magically make her interested in taking actual academic subjects...


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:56 am 
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Brabus wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Brabus wrote:
So then, first born is looking at her second year of secondary school and she wants to do dance as a subject. Since when has dance been a subject worth study? Flaming NCEA handing out credits like lollies, I now need to convince her to opt for subjects that might actually help her or at least teach her something useful.

What on earth are we doing to our education system where dance is seen as a valuable path of study, surely this should be extra curricular.

Only do if she would be good at it.


Oh she'll be good at it but that's not entirely the point, school should be about academic pursuits, dance, whilst a valid art form won't exactly set her up for a career, I guess it's one of those moments where you look back on your own life and realise that having fun isn't necessarily the most important thing. Still trying to make a 14 year old understand that is a whole other story. I would offer to put her into classes out of school but that wont magically make her interested in taking actual academic subjects...

What about a career as Choreographer? I'm no expert so take my advice with a pinch of salt but as long as she covers English, Maths, Science than she can still do something fun @14.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:03 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Brabus wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Brabus wrote:
So then, first born is looking at her second year of secondary school and she wants to do dance as a subject. Since when has dance been a subject worth study? Flaming NCEA handing out credits like lollies, I now need to convince her to opt for subjects that might actually help her or at least teach her something useful.

What on earth are we doing to our education system where dance is seen as a valuable path of study, surely this should be extra curricular.

Only do if she would be good at it.


Oh she'll be good at it but that's not entirely the point, school should be about academic pursuits, dance, whilst a valid art form won't exactly set her up for a career, I guess it's one of those moments where you look back on your own life and realise that having fun isn't necessarily the most important thing. Still trying to make a 14 year old understand that is a whole other story. I would offer to put her into classes out of school but that wont magically make her interested in taking actual academic subjects...

What about a career as Choreographer? I'm no expert so take my advice with a pinch of salt but as long as she covers English, Maths, Science than she can still do something fun @14.


And she will, although she's not exactly lighting the boards up with her performance so far which is why I think she's going for the fun stuff. Feck but being a parent is hard once Bruce the puberty fairy visits and turns your angels into demons.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:10 am 
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Brabus wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Brabus wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Brabus wrote:
So then, first born is looking at her second year of secondary school and she wants to do dance as a subject. Since when has dance been a subject worth study? Flaming NCEA handing out credits like lollies, I now need to convince her to opt for subjects that might actually help her or at least teach her something useful.

What on earth are we doing to our education system where dance is seen as a valuable path of study, surely this should be extra curricular.

Only do if she would be good at it.


Oh she'll be good at it but that's not entirely the point, school should be about academic pursuits, dance, whilst a valid art form won't exactly set her up for a career, I guess it's one of those moments where you look back on your own life and realise that having fun isn't necessarily the most important thing. Still trying to make a 14 year old understand that is a whole other story. I would offer to put her into classes out of school but that wont magically make her interested in taking actual academic subjects...

What about a career as Choreographer? I'm no expert so take my advice with a pinch of salt but as long as she covers English, Maths, Science than she can still do something fun @14.


And she will, although she's not exactly lighting the boards up with her performance so far which is why I think she's going for the fun stuff. Feck but being a parent is hard once Bruce the puberty fairy visits and turns your angels into demons.

:lol: Good luck with that.... err does this dance class involve boys? No need to worry most boys doing dance prefer other boys!


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:26 am 
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If she has got solid other subjects I'd say fine. It's not like it matters what you take at high school, and dance would have as many career prospects as History, Geography or a foreign language.

Do Maths, English, something sciency, and 2 f&ck around interest subjects.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:23 am 
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J Man wrote:
If she has got solid other subjects I'd say fine. It's not like it matters what you take at high school, and dance would have as many career prospects as History, Geography or a foreign language.

Do Maths, English, something sciency, and 2 f&ck around interest subjects.


Oi! I'm a geography major thank you very much...

Probably the main reason I went back to uni :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:27 am 
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The main issue is getting her interested in things that will help when things like dance she could do outside of school.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:47 am 
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Count yourself lucky, my son is just beginning his career as a stunt man. Seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:50 am 
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Who cares, she's only 14, probably does a bunch of useful subjects as it is. Dance is a bloody good form of cardio. Let her have some fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:59 am 
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WoodlandsRFC wrote:
Who cares, she's only 14, probably does a bunch of useful subjects as it is. Dance is a bloody good form of cardio. Let her have some fun.


She is already well involved in sports for her school, and has done bloody well including representing her school in national competitions. I'm rather proud of her truth be told. She ain't some couch potato , my concern is simply around a lack of foresight (common in the young) and a reluctance to listen to her parents. Maybe I'm taking this too seriously but then I also have the Mrs in my ear and she takes this far more seriously than I do.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:03 am 
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Brabus wrote:
WoodlandsRFC wrote:
Who cares, she's only 14, probably does a bunch of useful subjects as it is. Dance is a bloody good form of cardio. Let her have some fun.


She is already well involved in sports for her school, and has done bloody well including representing her school in national competitions. I'm rather proud of her truth be told. She ain't some couch potato , my concern is simply around a lack of foresight (common in the young) and a reluctance to listen to her parents. Maybe I'm taking this too seriously but then I also have the Mrs in my ear and she takes this far more seriously than I do.

Fair enough mate, she'll get serious and worry about her future closer to 6th form, guarantee, at 14 she's still plenty young enough and the subject's you study at that age are much of a muchness. As long as she's applying herself at maths I can't see any harm in dance as a subject.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:15 am 
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Brabus wrote:
WoodlandsRFC wrote:
Who cares, she's only 14, probably does a bunch of useful subjects as it is. Dance is a bloody good form of cardio. Let her have some fun.


She is already well involved in sports for her school, and has done bloody well including representing her school in national competitions. I'm rather proud of her truth be told. She ain't some couch potato , my concern is simply around a lack of foresight (common in the young) and a reluctance to listen to her parents. Maybe I'm taking this too seriously but then I also have the Mrs in my ear and she takes this far more seriously than I do.

You are. There are plenty of people who make a career out of dance. I'm sure there's also some theory involved and it will work on her poise and posture.

If it's just a bit of a dance then it's no harm having a bit of physical activity to break up a day in a classroom and it'll give her more time to focus on more academic subjects. Mol an óige as we say over here.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:18 am 
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Brabus wrote:
WoodlandsRFC wrote:
Who cares, she's only 14, probably does a bunch of useful subjects as it is. Dance is a bloody good form of cardio. Let her have some fun.


She is already well involved in sports for her school, and has done bloody well including representing her school in national competitions. I'm rather proud of her truth be told. She ain't some couch potato , my concern is simply around a lack of foresight (common in the young) and a reluctance to listen to her parents. Maybe I'm taking this too seriously but then I also have the Mrs in my ear and she takes this far more seriously than I do.


Brabus, you'd better get used to them not listening to you or you're going to have an increasingly frustrated and unhappy life. Learn to pick your battles or you'll drive yourself mad. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:27 am 
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Dunno what's wrong, you should be proud.

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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:46 am 
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Break her ankles. Problem solved.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:14 am 
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Unless you're Lavelle Smith Jr, Jamie King or Kenny Ortega, you'll earn a pittance from dance.

Generally, £125 a day rehersal, £250 for a show, self employed and a lot of non working days.

The market is so crowded it's untrue and I should know as I still own 35% of my ex, Mark's, Dance and Chroeog co which is the biggest agency in Europe.

So so so so so many, so many good ones. Steve Nestar, Madonna's 'slave in chains' struggles to make a living.

So if she only wants to do it for the art/fun side, great, but unless you're Lavelle, who'd gross maybe £250k for a Michael Jackson world tour as creative director , you'll make little cash.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:22 am 
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No need to worry most boys doing dance prefer other boys!
I think you might prefer to think that boys who learn to dance are more likely to be. gay than those who enjoy close physical contact sports and showering with other boys


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:29 am 
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Who cares?

What you do in high school has just about no bearing on the rest of your life.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:33 am 
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WoodlandsRFC wrote:
Brabus wrote:
WoodlandsRFC wrote:
Who cares, she's only 14, probably does a bunch of useful subjects as it is. Dance is a bloody good form of cardio. Let her have some fun.


She is already well involved in sports for her school, and has done bloody well including representing her school in national competitions. I'm rather proud of her truth be told. She ain't some couch potato , my concern is simply around a lack of foresight (common in the young) and a reluctance to listen to her parents. Maybe I'm taking this too seriously but then I also have the Mrs in my ear and she takes this far more seriously than I do.

Fair enough mate, she'll get serious and worry about her future closer to 6th form, guarantee, at 14 she's still plenty young enough and the subject's you study at that age are much of a muchness. As long as she's applying herself at maths I can't see any harm in dance as a subject.


Therein lies the rub. As mentioned she's bloody good at the sport but not so good at the academia, doing the fun stuff and getting the praise could well take the focus off the important stuff. Feck at some stage I'm going to be broken down and I'll need someone to pick up the bill ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:35 am 
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Redsfan wrote:
Who cares?

What you do in high school has just about no bearing on the rest of your life.


I take it you don't have kids. It is pretty much mandatory to care, doubly so if the wife is still involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:57 am 
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What are the subjects that she would miss out on by selecting dance?


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:07 am 
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alliswell wrote:
What are the subjects that she would miss out on by selecting dance?

Commerce, computer programming, future problem solving (I didn't make that up) Design and digital technology and a range of languages.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:26 am 
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Brabus wrote:
alliswell wrote:
What are the subjects that she would miss out on by selecting dance?

Commerce, computer programming, future problem solving (I didn't make that up) Design and digital technology and a range of languages.

Will she be doing a language at all? The rest don't sound like too much of a loss but I would probably favour the more traditional subjects.

I don't know if it's a great idea to go to war on this. You could always use it as leverage.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:37 am 
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alliswell wrote:
Brabus wrote:
alliswell wrote:
What are the subjects that she would miss out on by selecting dance?

Commerce, computer programming, future problem solving (I didn't make that up) Design and digital technology and a range of languages.

Will she be doing a language at all? The rest don't sound like too much of a loss but I would probably favour the more traditional subjects.

I don't know if it's a great idea to go to war on this. You could always use it as leverage.


Go to war? I'm talking a out a 14 year old girl, Bruce the puberty fairy has ensured I'm already fully engaged, I'm just trying to limit the fallout. I do have a wonderful app that allows me to block her from the internet, and due to her appalling behaviour towards her mother I did modify her Netflix profile to that of a "little kid"...

Oh and she was doing Spanish which was good as we have a fluent friend who was tutoring her but she found it boring...


Last edited by Brabus on Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:39 am 
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Brabus wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Brabus wrote:
alliswell wrote:
What are the subjects that she would miss out on by selecting dance?

Commerce, computer programming, future problem solving (I didn't make that up) Design and digital technology and a range of languages.

Will she be doing a language at all? The rest don't sound like too much of a loss but I would probably favour the more traditional subjects.

I don't know if it's a great idea to go to war on this. You could always use it as leverage.


Go to war? I'm talking a out a 14 year old girl, Bruce the puberty fairy has ensured I'm already fully engaged, I'm just trying to limit the fallout. I do have a wonderful app that allows me to block her from the internet, and due to her appalling behaviour towards her mother I did modify her Netflix profile to that of a "little kid"...

Fair point. Open a new front may have been a better way of putting it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:37 pm 
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14 ?
Ah ! by the time she will be 20 the main occupation of those remaining on the planet will be looking for water with a bottle in one hand and a shotgun in the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Jake wrote:
Unless you're Lavelle Smith Jr, Jamie King or Kenny Ortega, you'll earn a pittance from dance.

Generally, £125 a day rehersal, £250 for a show, self employed and a lot of non working days.

The market is so crowded it's untrue and I should know as I still own 35% of my ex, Mark's, Dance and Chroeog co which is the biggest agency in Europe.

So so so so so many, so many good ones. Steve Nestar, Madonna's 'slave in chains' struggles to make a living.

So if she only wants to do it for the art/fun side, great, but unless you're Lavelle, who'd gross maybe £250k for a Michael Jackson world tour as creative director , you'll make little cash.


You are forgetting about this market
http://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/family/stripper-reveals-how-pole-dance-clubs-1676988

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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:06 pm 
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I would not worry. Dance gives other soft skills, like handling better being the center of attention, how to present yourself, and social skills in general. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:20 am 
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Well it's ended up in a compromise, she's doing dance but also design and digital technology. I'll take it as a win.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:28 am 
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It terms of posture and flexibility and all the time we spend sitting nowadays, I almost think dance should be compulsory!


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:29 am 
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Jake wrote:
Unless you're Lavelle Smith Jr, Jamie King or Kenny Ortega, you'll earn a pittance from dance.

Generally, £125 a day rehersal, £250 for a show, self employed and a lot of non working days.

The market is so crowded it's untrue and I should know as I still own 35% of my ex, Mark's, Dance and Chroeog co which is the biggest agency in Europe.

So so so so so many, so many good ones. Steve Nestar, Madonna's 'slave in chains' struggles to make a living.

So if she only wants to do it for the art/fun side, great, but unless you're Lavelle, who'd gross maybe £250k for a Michael Jackson world tour as creative director , you'll make little cash.


That's an incredibly fabulous post.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:43 am 
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Brabus wrote:
So then, first born is looking at her second year of secondary school and she wants to do dance as a subject. Since when has dance been a subject worth study? Flaming NCEA handing out credits like lollies, I now need to convince her to opt for subjects that might actually help her or at least teach her something useful.

What on earth are we doing to our education system where dance is seen as a valuable path of study, surely this should be extra curricular.


Tough conundrum. On one hand, you should support your daughters wishes and let her do subjects she likes. On the other hand, my brother did arty subjects at school, drama at uni, and has done precisely bugger all with his life to be honest - all uni did really was put him off any form of performing arts for life. I am not familiar with the education system you describe but if there are credits avail for it then I wouldnt get too worried just yet.

Good luck , and let us know when she is in madonna videos or ends up pole dancing ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:46 am 
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No doubt every great dancer has had the same disapproval from their parents, if it's only one subject at 14 what's the harm


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:52 am 
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Wouldn't worry too much.......kid 4 was a dancer, and good at it.......became extremely fit and used fitness for volleyball and netball.......ended up an accountant.......cost a feckin fortune!


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:56 am 
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terangi48 wrote:
cost a feckin fortune!

And there is the one constant :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:58 am 
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PS.......trade off her interest in dance as PE......and get her to recognise it as a form of recreation. Then have the frank discussion about what she wants to do for a living.


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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:10 am 
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backrow wrote:
On the other hand, my brother did arty subjects at school, drama at uni, and has done precisely bugger all with his life to be honest - all uni did really was put him off any form of performing arts for life.


[Apologies for the assumptions here, I am speaking in general terms more than specifically about your brother]...

The problem here is in assuming that if your brother studied engineering at uni that he would now be off successfully designing bridges. It is more likely to be his temperament that has led to him doing bugger all rather than what he studied at uni. Had he studied something more "vocational" then he possibly might be worse off having wasted those years in something he wasn't interested in.

People who become successful tend to have high intelligence, motivation and ambition. Not all of us posses those traits (I don't) but they are far more important than what you study.


Last edited by J Man on Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fecking dance?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:10 am 
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terangi48 wrote:
PS.......trade off her interest in dance as PE......and get her to recognise it as a form of recreation. Then have the frank discussion about what she wants to do for a living.


Sage advice, thank you. At the moment she wants to do what's fun, which is completely understandable. She is also is at School which has a reputation to uphold so I get the feeling that they will be more than happy for her to do non-academic subjects in order to keep their averages high. I.e. they might find it easier for her to curse through subjects like dance than to challenge her and help her grow. Like I said parenting us hard


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