Planet Rugby Forum

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:16 pm Yes, I understand that emotionally crippled people like you who find kissing people hello "rape-y" (seriously one of the saddest posts in recorded history) want to avoid the opprobrium of other emotionally crippled weirdos that think listening to music is about making an imaginary moral statement in favor of guy who made it. I'm talking about people who listen to music to listen to music.

Man that sentence makes you sound like a pompous twat.

Anyway, shall we agree to disagree? You enjoy having "sensual experiences" with the work of paedophiles and sexual predators. I don't. Let's just live and let live?

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:22 pm

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:16 pm Yes, I understand that emotionally crippled people like you who find kissing people hello "rape-y" (seriously one of the saddest posts in recorded history) want to avoid the opprobrium of other emotionally crippled weirdos that think listening to music is about making an imaginary moral statement in favor of guy who made it. I'm talking about people who listen to music to listen to music.

Man that sentence makes you sound like a pompous twat.

Anyway, shall we agree to disagree? You enjoy having "sensual experiences" with the work of paedophiles and sexual predators. I don't. Let's just live and let live?

I don't know what's sadder, your inability to understand the purpose of music, or that a guy whose claim to fame was making jokes about assrape could end up being so boring.

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

Colbert and Seinfeld were chatting about this as it pertained to Bill Cosby, Seinfeld thought much of his work (such as Air) remained well worth listening to as standalone pieces of art, Colbert (and Cosby was probably worth more to Colbert) found it difficult to envisage revisiting Cosby's work. It's almost like different people think differently

The “separating the art from the artist” cliche usually works much more comfortably with musicians than, say, filmmakers or comedians. You can easily tap your foot along to Zeppelin (fvcked teens), Bowie (fvcked teens), Ike Turner (victimised his wife) etc as their work doesn't often allude to those behaviours. Whereas it’s hard to watch a film like Woody Allen’s Manhattan and not consider the fact that the plot centres on him dating a teenage girl.

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:04 pm

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

You can't understand why people may not enjoy engaging with artwork that was produced by a convicted paedophile? FFs, what's wrong with you?

It doesn't stop me enjoying the music of Led Zeppelin, Iggy Pop, and David Bowie.

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

Fascinating.
In my case, although I am fully aware the art itself has not changed, I cannot enjoy a piece of art if I know the artist was a piece of shit.

If I play a song on Spotify, no matter how good, the realisation that I make some sex predator a bit richer spoils the fun somewhat. It’s not even conscious. It’s like a hairy spider hanging at a corner of the screen when you watch your favourite movie. The films is still the same one, but the fucker spoils the experience somewhat.

It’s obviously different if the guy is alive or long dead, on the severity of the crime, also as Naki mentioned, the feeling is stronger for movie stars/comedians who you watch and not only listen ... but it’s always there.

I find it fascinating you don’t get that.

Out of curiosity:
1. Do you get none of that or just not enough to stop watching/listening
2. Would you still be happy to go to a music store and actively buy a record of a living musician you like who is known to be a sex pest?

And just to explore a bit

3. Of Hitler was a great child book writer, would you still read his work to your daughter?

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:06 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:04 pm

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

You can't understand why people may not enjoy engaging with artwork that was produced by a convicted paedophile? FFs, what's wrong with you?

It doesn't stop me enjoying the music of Led Zeppelin, Iggy Pop, and David Bowie.

convicted paedophiles?

pigaaaa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:03 am

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

Fascinating.
In my case, although I am fully aware the art itself has not changed, I cannot enjoy a piece of art if I know the artist was a piece of shit.

If I play a song on Spotify, no matter how good, the realisation that I make some sex predator a bit richer spoils the fun somewhat. It’s not even conscious. It’s like a hairy spider hanging at a corner of the screen when you watch your favourite movie. The films is still the same one, but the fucker spoils the experience somewhat.

It’s obviously different if the guy is alive or long dead, on the severity of the crime, also as Naki mentioned, the feeling is stronger for movie stars/comedians who you watch and not only listen ... but it’s always there.

I find it fascinating you don’t get that.

Out of curiosity:
1. Do you get none of that or just not enough to stop watching/listening
2. Would you still be happy to go to a music store and actively buy a record of a living musician you like who is known to be a sex pest?

And just to explore a bit

3. Of Hitler was a great child book writer, would you still read his work to your daughter?

Unless it was ‘Harriet Holocaust is Forced to Sell all of those Lovely New Shoes, just to Afford her Nasty Big Gas Bill’, of course. What is wrong with you?? Hope you weren’t too heartbroken when The Grauniad made you burn your beloved The Smiths-branded anal beads.

You have to separate art & artist - unless the artist has failed to do so, and his art is a vehicle for his shit views.

This is so testes-punchingly obvious that it’s barely worth arguing the point to those feeble-brained enough to cling to The Cüntian Imperative.

Oh, and fonz? Suggest we add this to the list of handy gods?/insects? discrimination tools. See you in Asgard, fella.

Benthos wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:28 am

pigaaaa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:03 am

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

Fascinating.
In my case, although I am fully aware the art itself has not changed, I cannot enjoy a piece of art if I know the artist was a piece of shit.

If I play a song on Spotify, no matter how good, the realisation that I make some sex predator a bit richer spoils the fun somewhat. It’s not even conscious. It’s like a hairy spider hanging at a corner of the screen when you watch your favourite movie. The films is still the same one, but the fucker spoils the experience somewhat.

It’s obviously different if the guy is alive or long dead, on the severity of the crime, also as Naki mentioned, the feeling is stronger for movie stars/comedians who you watch and not only listen ... but it’s always there.

I find it fascinating you don’t get that.

Out of curiosity:
1. Do you get none of that or just not enough to stop watching/listening
2. Would you still be happy to go to a music store and actively buy a record of a living musician you like who is known to be a sex pest?

And just to explore a bit

3. Of Hitler was a great child book writer, would you still read his work to your daughter?

Unless it was ‘Harriet Holocaust is Forced to Sell all of those Lovely New Shoes, just to Afford her Nasty Big Gas Bill’, of course. What is wrong with you?? Hope you weren’t too heartbroken when The Grauniad made you burn your beloved The Smiths-branded anal beads.

You have to separate art & artist - unless the artist has failed to do so, and his art is a vehicle for his shit views.

This is so testes-punchingly obvious that it’s barely worth arguing the point to those feeble-brained enough to cling to The Cüntian Imperative.

Oh, and fonz? Suggest we add this to the list of handy gods?/insects? discrimination tools. See you in Asgard, fella.

As I said it’s not even a conscious decision. I find you guys strange. Maybe we are just wired differently. Or you just want to be ‘edgy’.

Nope. I’m not a child, is all.

Night

Benthos wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:48 am Nope. I’m not a child, is all.

Night

No one says you are.
Are you saying I am?

And by the way - I don’t think it’s possible to separate the artist from the art. Even if his/her views are not there. That’s true at least for the art that’s worth anything in my opinion.

pigaaaa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:56 am And by the way - I don’t think it’s possible to separate the artist from the art. Even if his/her views are not there. That’s true at least for the art that’s worth anything in my opinion.

I'm in the camp that there are actions that make cases where it can be separated and cases where it can't. And while there are clear cases in both camps, I'll also say that there isn't a clear dividing line either.

pigaaaa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:03 am

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

Fascinating.
In my case, although I am fully aware the art itself has not changed, I cannot enjoy a piece of art if I know the artist was a piece of shit.

If I play a song on Spotify, no matter how good, the realisation that I make some sex predator a bit richer spoils the fun somewhat. It’s not even conscious. It’s like a hairy spider hanging at a corner of the screen when you watch your favourite movie. The films is still the same one, but the fucker spoils the experience somewhat.

It’s obviously different if the guy is alive or long dead, on the severity of the crime, also as Naki mentioned, the feeling is stronger for movie stars/comedians who you watch and not only listen ... but it’s always there.

I find it fascinating you don’t get that.

Out of curiosity:
1. Do you get none of that or just not enough to stop watching/listening
2. Would you still be happy to go to a music store and actively buy a record of a living musician you like who is known to be a sex pest?

And just to explore a bit

3. Of Hitler was a great child book writer, would you still read his work to your daughter?

Never fear, most of that Spotify coin is likely going to the manager or record company that exploited the artist rather than the artist that exploited the underage groupie

I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Lawyers can't do much if you publically admitted to having sex with children, as a lot of famous artists did.

Haven't watched Look Away, so no idea what's in it, but it's definiely an open-goal for somebody who wants to charge them.

naki wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:54 pm The “separating the art from the artist” cliche usually works much more comfortably with musicians than, say, filmmakers or comedians. You can easily tap your foot along to Zeppelin (fvcked teens), Bowie (fvcked teens), Ike Turner (victimised his wife) etc as their work doesn't often allude to those behaviours. Whereas it’s hard to watch a film like Woody Allen’s Manhattan and not consider the fact that the plot centres on him dating a teenage girl.

And yet in the instance alluded to, Colbert discussing Crosby with Seinfeld, you've two comedians thinking differently about a comedian.

Medium would be a thing too, I'd think differently about going to see Kevin Spacey live at the Old Vic again, in the unlikely event he was invited back, but I'd quite happily watch Glengarry Glen Ross, The Usual Suspects, L.A. Confidential, or The Negotiator (not American Beauty but because that's always bored me) again

Given it's entertainment if for whatever reason it strikes someone as no longer being entertaining then fair enough, but we're not all going to react to the same things in the same way, we'll be inconsistent across mediums, persons, crimes, distance in history from the crime, whether they're called Trump...

Any industry where there are beautiful young women willing to do anything to get job that is at the discretion of older men, is bound to lead down this path.Sharon Stone was very open about it in a recent interview..

It is terrible but hardly a surprise,

anonymous_joe wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:44 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Lawyers can't do much if you publically admitted to having sex with children, as a lot of famous artists did.

Haven't watched Look Away, so no idea what's in it, but it's definiely an open-goal for somebody who wants to charge them.

Of those still breathing, Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop are the 'stars'.... If I was any of them and a letter popped through my Beverly Hills letterbox from Allred, Maroko & Goldberg, I think I might leg it on my Gulfstream to Tahiti for an extended vacation.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Prince Andrew. That could set a trend.

(By which I mean that were he to successfully defend a civil trial - and who knows if there'll be a trial - it might lead to a cooling of prosecutorial ardour in a crimianl context.)

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:52 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

The Telegraph mentioned a few of those in the article I posted yesterday. I guess those are the names that easily pass the legal test.


It's interesting it seems to be more of the 70s generation of rock stars and onwards getting named rather then the previous generation of groups who were the big names of the 60s. In this clip about Jimmy Page and Lori Mattix, it seems Page's ex-groupie/girlfriend/lover seems to indicate that it was something vogue that came in. She mentions "an influx of baby groupies" in the 70s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL5380rCsoU

Was this something that evolved culturally in celebrity life I wonder as opposed to being there at the start, hence why older rockers like the Beatles, Stones etc aren't being named here? or was the access less that it wasn't as well known so less ahs leaked out?

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:52 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

So, we are not allowed to listen to their music anymore?

La soule wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:25 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:52 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

So, we are not allowed to listen to their music anymore?

What do you think I am , the music police !!! Listen to what you want my friend. I was simply commenting on a documentary that I saw.

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:09 pm

La soule wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:25 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:52 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

So, we are not allowed to listen to their music anymore?

What do you think I am , the music police !!! Listen to what you want my friend. I was simply commenting on a documentary that I saw.

It was not aimed at you!!

La soule wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:24 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:09 pm

La soule wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:25 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:52 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

So, we are not allowed to listen to their music anymore?

What do you think I am , the music police !!! Listen to what you want my friend. I was simply commenting on a documentary that I saw.

It was not aimed at you!!

La soule wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:25 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:52 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

So, we are not allowed to listen to their music anymore?

You can't even watch the opening scene of Trainspotting now

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:19 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:06 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:04 pm

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

You can't understand why people may not enjoy engaging with artwork that was produced by a convicted paedophile? FFs, what's wrong with you?

It doesn't stop me enjoying the music of Led Zeppelin, Iggy Pop, and David Bowie.

convicted paedophiles?

If they get convicted, Immigrant Song will be just as effective a piece of music.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:20 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:52 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

The Telegraph mentioned a few of those in the article I posted yesterday. I guess those are the names that easily pass the legal test.


It's interesting it seems to be more of the 70s generation of rock stars and onwards getting named rather then the previous generation of groups who were the big names of the 60s. In this clip about Jimmy Page and Lori Mattix, it seems Page's ex-groupie/girlfriend/lover seems to indicate that it was something vogue that came in. She mentions "an influx of baby groupies" in the 70s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL5380rCsoU

Was this something that evolved culturally in celebrity life I wonder as opposed to being there at the start, hence why older rockers like the Beatles, Stones etc aren't being named here? or was the access less that it wasn't as well known so less ahs leaked out?

Heyyyyy Maaaaaaan, if you remember the 60's you weren't living.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:20 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:52 am

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

The Sun God wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:31 am I watched a documentary on SKY recently called ' look away'. If I were one of the many named aged rockers in the piece I think I would be lawyering up...

Who was named?

Axl Rose, Steve Tyler and Iggy Pop of those who are still with us. Bowie was mentioned in passing !!!!!

The Telegraph mentioned a few of those in the article I posted yesterday. I guess those are the names that easily pass the legal test.


It's interesting it seems to be more of the 70s generation of rock stars and onwards getting named rather then the previous generation of groups who were the big names of the 60s. In this clip about Jimmy Page and Lori Mattix, it seems Page's ex-groupie/girlfriend/lover seems to indicate that it was something vogue that came in. She mentions "an influx of baby groupies" in the 70s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL5380rCsoU

Was this something that evolved culturally in celebrity life I wonder as opposed to being there at the start, hence why older rockers like the Beatles, Stones etc aren't being named here? or was the access less that it wasn't as well known so less ahs leaked out?

Heyyyyy Maaaaaaan, if you remember the 60's you weren't living.

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:13 pm

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:19 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:06 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:04 pm

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

You can't understand why people may not enjoy engaging with artwork that was produced by a convicted paedophile? FFs, what's wrong with you?

It doesn't stop me enjoying the music of Led Zeppelin, Iggy Pop, and David Bowie.

convicted paedophiles?

If they get convicted, Immigrant Song will be just as effective a piece of music.

Bill Whyman was banging a thirteen year old child and then married her when she turned 16 to avoid conviction. He's never been charged.

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:27 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:13 pm

Anonymous 1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:19 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:06 am

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:04 pm

You can't understand why people may not enjoy engaging with artwork that was produced by a convicted paedophile? FFs, what's wrong with you?

It doesn't stop me enjoying the music of Led Zeppelin, Iggy Pop, and David Bowie.

convicted paedophiles?

If they get convicted, Immigrant Song will be just as effective a piece of music.

Bill Whyman was banging a thirteen year old child and then married her when she turned 16 to avoid conviction. He's never been charged.

Mandy Smith...... I had forgotten about that.

The Sun God wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:42 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:27 am
Bill Whyman was banging a thirteen year old child and then married her when she turned 16 to avoid conviction. He's never been charged.

Mandy Smith...... I had forgotten about that.

Technically, they married at 18. He claims the (physical) relationship began when she was 16. She later claimed it was she was 14 (he was 50). We're going back to 1983/84 here, so not sure if there is a statute of limitations etc?
Pretty sure that even if his version was accepted, it would nowadays be considered to be grooming

Whatever about the technicalities, what the hell do a 50 year old and a 14 year old have in common?

As if that weirdness wasn't enough, 4 years after they married (and 2 years after they'd broken up!), Wyman's son (then 30) married Mandy Smith's mother (then 46)! That also lasted two years!

DeDoc wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:13 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:42 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:27 am
Bill Whyman was banging a thirteen year old child and then married her when she turned 16 to avoid conviction. He's never been charged.

Mandy Smith...... I had forgotten about that.

Technically, they married at 18. He claims the (physical) relationship began when she was 16. She later claimed it was she was 14 (he was 50). We're going back to 1983/84 here, so not sure if there is a statute of limitations etc?
Pretty sure that even if his version was accepted, it would nowadays be considered to be grooming

Whatever about the technicalities, what the hell do a 50 year old and a 14 year old have in common?

As if that weirdness wasn't enough, 4 years after they married (and 2 years after they'd broken up!), Wyman's son (then 30) married Mandy Smith's mother (then 46)! That also lasted two years!

Seriously fúcked up......

DeDoc wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:13 pm

The Sun God wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:42 am

message #2527204 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:27 am
Bill Whyman was banging a thirteen year old child and then married her when she turned 16 to avoid conviction. He's never been charged.

Mandy Smith...... I had forgotten about that.

Technically, they married at 18. He claims the (physical) relationship began when she was 16. She later claimed it was she was 14 (he was 50). We're going back to 1983/84 here, so not sure if there is a statute of limitations etc?
Pretty sure that even if his version was accepted, it would nowadays be considered to be grooming

Whatever about the technicalities, what the hell do a 50 year old and a 14 year old have in common?

As if that weirdness wasn't enough, 4 years after they married (and 2 years after they'd broken up!), Wyman's son (then 30) married Mandy Smith's mother (then 46)! That also lasted two years!

That's genuinely messed up and weird. A real bubble of incestuous behaviour on top of the creepy, warped crap.

pigaaaa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:03 am

fonzeee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:55 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 pm How are fans going to feel about watching that with their young ones now? Like Michael Jackson’s music, Kelly’s songs have been shifted into an ambiguous space, tainted by association. Some fans will continue to listen to Kelly for what his music represents in their personal memories, but I expect that he will become persona non grata on radio stations and in sync deals.

I've never understood this sort of thinking. Do people like music because they think whoever made it is a real swell fella?

Ted Nugent has been accused of some very unsavory things, but when the riff for Cat Scratch Fever comes on, I'm banging my head, period.

Fascinating.
In my case, although I am fully aware the art itself has not changed, I cannot enjoy a piece of art if I know the artist was a piece of shit.

If I play a song on Spotify, no matter how good, the realisation that I make some sex predator a bit richer spoils the fun somewhat. It’s not even conscious. It’s like a hairy spider hanging at a corner of the screen when you watch your favourite movie. The films is still the same one, but the fucker spoils the experience somewhat.

It’s obviously different if the guy is alive or long dead, on the severity of the crime, also as Naki mentioned, the feeling is stronger for movie stars/comedians who you watch and not only listen ... but it’s always there.

I find it fascinating you don’t get that.

Out of curiosity:
1. Do you get none of that or just not enough to stop watching/listening
2. Would you still be happy to go to a music store and actively buy a record of a living musician you like who is known to be a sex pest?

And just to explore a bit

3. Of Hitler was a great child book writer, would you still read his work to your daughter?

What fascinates me is that you say this feeling is not conscious. When I'm watching or listening to something, I'm soaking it in, it's washing over me so to speak, I'm trying to get *into* it. This is why I used the word "sensual", which is imperfect but then again English was created by the English so I don't have many options to relate this kind of thing. Perhaps Polish is different.

In any case, for me to feel what your describing, something totally outside the experience would have to intercept the message from my ears to my "heart" or whatever part of the brain "feels" music, which is not how music works for me. So it would take a conscious effort for me to have this hairy spider drop in, and at any rate I have no desire to make this happen, for many reasons, but also I don't think it's fair to the artist. I'm not making a positive judgement on the character of a sex pest when I say I like his music, anymore than I'm saying the guys in Nickelback are bad people because their music sucks. I truly don't see how or why people conflate the two. Frankly, there's something about this type of thinking that smacks of vanity to me, as if their approval in the form of enjoying the work really means something. No offense of course, you seem cool.

I suppose if Radiohead was funneling money to ISIS, I wouldn't want to help them do that. But that's a practical consideration, not a commentary on their work's artistic merit. Were I to confuse the two, that would betray a shortsighted shallowness on my behalf IMO, no different than if I said I don't like Thom Yorke's voice because he's got a funny eye. The fact that one is morally blameworthy and the other is not is completely beside the point, it all amounts to compromising your ability to engage with the work for reasons beyond it.

Benthos pretty well answered your third question for me.

Benthos wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:28 am Unless it was ‘Harriet Holocaust is Forced to Sell all of those Lovely New Shoes, just to Afford her Nasty Big Gas Bill’, of course. What is wrong with you?? Hope you weren’t too heartbroken when The Grauniad made you burn your beloved The Smiths-branded anal beads.

You have to separate art & artist - unless the artist has failed to do so, and his art is a vehicle for his shit views.

This is so testes-punchingly obvious that it’s barely worth arguing the point to those feeble-brained enough to cling to The Cüntian Imperative.

Oh, and fonz? Suggest we add this to the list of handy gods?/insects? discrimination tools. See you in Asgard, fella.

Hear hear on the last point...if this thread is any indication, there's going to be plenty of real estate when we get there.

fonzeee wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:02 am

Benthos wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:28 am Unless it was ‘Harriet Holocaust is Forced to Sell all of those Lovely New Shoes, just to Afford her Nasty Big Gas Bill’, of course. What is wrong with you?? Hope you weren’t too heartbroken when The Grauniad made you burn your beloved The Smiths-branded anal beads.

You have to separate art & artist - unless the artist has failed to do so, and his art is a vehicle for his shit views.

This is so testes-punchingly obvious that it’s barely worth arguing the point to those feeble-brained enough to cling to The Cüntian Imperative.

Oh, and fonz? Suggest we add this to the list of handy gods?/insects? discrimination tools. See you in Asgard, fella.

Hear hear on the last point...if this thread is any indication, there's going to be plenty of real estate when we get there.

That Harriet Holocaust

I see the points you both make. And I still say that sometimes an artists work and their voice in their work is too much that it still causes a reflex gag. Yeah sometimes you listen mindlessly, but sometimes you automatically think about the artist. This might mean for example that a singular pervy artist is harder to separate than a pervy member of a band as an individual singer is the entirety of the recording brand, a member of a group is not usually the brand of the the group.

The Johnny Depp Amber Heard trail going on, recordings of her admitting she hit him and gaslighting him. She sounds like a nasty piece of work. I'll admit I was taken in by those initial pictures of domestic violence, but happy to change my mind about Depp with all the evidence. He seems very much the victim in this.

https://twitter.com/johnnyhellodepp/sta ... 4363917312


Also #mepooo has been trending over this

Though with Ezra Miller now with multiple arrests for attacks on women and raiding their homes and Amber Heard, it seems very wrong that their bosses at Warner, who fired Depp, have been sticking by them so far.