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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:20 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
The Native wrote:
I've been following a ketogenic diet the last two weeks. I'm not monitoring weight loss thus far. It's 2121 on a Sunday night as I post this. Have just had a massive steak and a huge caeser salad for dinner before embarking on a 5 day fast before my work Christmas dinner.

No sugar during that two week period. I have been having diet/sugar free fizzy drinks though. Will be interesting consuming only water and black coffee the next five days.


I've always been interesting in people who fast regularly. Especially in regards to the positive impact it has on blood sugar and blood pressure. Whilst I am not diabetic, I am Polynesian and high blood sugar and hypertension are two things that we need to constantly be aware of. Keep us posted about how your 5 day fast goes :thumbup:

I'm not sure that I could ever fast though, I enjoy eating too much and I get irritable when I am hungry. Although I suspect that it's probably a bit like cutting out sugar, hard at first but gets easier over time?


Consider time restricted eating, I stick to a 9hr per day eating window and it is supposed to offer similar benefits to fasting. Dr Rhonda Patrick is a good source of info on it


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:26 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
The Native wrote:
So it's 24 hours into my fast. I'm not sure why but this first day has been really easy for me. There has been the occasional hunger pang, but not the deep pervasive hunger that you might expect. I'v probably drunk about 2 to 2.5 litres, but I'm not keeping track. I'll take salt dissolved in water as one of the affects of fasting and drinking an increased amount of water is that your body rids itself of salt quite rapidly. I'll be interested to see my sleep is affected. I do recall that I felt I slept better last time I fasted and my sleep quality has been poor lately. I haven't been obsessing about food, I even browsed the menu of the restaurant we are going to this Friday and there were no urges or cravings.


:thumbup: I wonder if the lack of hunger pangs is because you have fasted previously? Your comment about salt is a good one, we don't often realise how important salt is to our functioning because we generally have so much salt in our diet that we rarely have to keep tabs on it. Keep the updates coming.

Could be. It could also be that about three weeks ago I changed my diet from not great to ketogenic then a week later altered my eating pattern to eating one meal a day, which was effectively intermittent fasting. I was hitting a minimum of 1600 calories roughly calculated on My Fitness Pal but was usually around 2000. My meal usually consisted of a big slab of meat, a massive leafy green salad (a whole bag of salad greens), bacon bits, a capsicum, half a telegraph cucumber and caeser salad dressing. I'd snack on cheese during my eating window. I wasn't hungry during my fasting phase and I think that prepared my body for a longer fast.

I know from experience (fasting and doing keto before) that I need to take extra salt. It's typically relieves any headaches that I have had in the past. No headaches today.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:46 am 
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had a bit of a blowout this weekend... back on track today


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:59 pm 
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Quick update. On to day two of my five day fast (not strictly five days as accurately I'll be 2 hours short, but close enough). Went to bed last night at 11pm. Had a bit of trouble getting to sleep with a restless leg. No idea what time I eventually nodded off. Woke at 5:30am. Sleep was very deep - had vivid dreams. Out of bed, shower, shave. Made a french press black coffee, into the travel mug. On the road at 6:15am. Got to site at 6:50am. Do not feel at all tired. Very focused but slightly jittery - probably the caffeine. One cup of coffee and a few mouthfuls of water and I'm pissing like crazy already.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:58 am 
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Holy crap five days seems extreme Native. Apologies if this has been explained earlier, I'm aware of the benefits of fasting for a day and intermittent fasting but what are the benefits of fasting five days?


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:04 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
Holy crap five days seems extreme Native. Apologies if this has been explained earlier, I'm aware of the benefits of fasting for a day and intermittent fasting but what are the benefits of fasting five days?

For me? Purely experimental at this stage.

Morning of day three, didn't update last night as I was knackered from a long day at work. Not tired during the actual work day but got home and just suddenly felt very tired so was in bed at 8pm. Woke at 5:30am feeling good. Not immediately hungry but as I type this I'm peckish, but don't crave food. Will have some water soon.

Haven't felt dizzy or anything like that. Have felt a bit jittery at times, but I believe that was the coffee. Focus good. Dreams are vivid. Had a weird one last night where I took a bit of something then got pissed off as I had ruined my fast, in my sleep :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:01 am 
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An interesting affect of fasting I've noticed is that my sense of taste has heightened. I've had to dilute my coffee to reduce bitterness and the sugar free gum I've had is very, very sweet.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:36 am 
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The Native wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Holy crap five days seems extreme Native. Apologies if this has been explained earlier, I'm aware of the benefits of fasting for a day and intermittent fasting but what are the benefits of fasting five days?

For me? Purely experimental at this stage.

Morning of day three, didn't update last night as I was knackered from a long day at work. Not tired during the actual work day but got home and just suddenly felt very tired so was in bed at 8pm. Woke at 5:30am feeling good. Not immediately hungry but as I type this I'm peckish, but don't crave food. Will have some water soon.

Haven't felt dizzy or anything like that. Have felt a bit jittery at times, but I believe that was the coffee. Focus good. Dreams are vivid. Had a weird one last night where I took a bit of something then got pissed off as I had ruined my fast, in my sleep :lol:


So just experimental? Not following any kind of recommended program or anything? So how you planning to measure the results? Just based on how you feel? No before vs after blood pressure test, cholesterol or anything?


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:50 am 
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booji boy wrote:
The Native wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Holy crap five days seems extreme Native. Apologies if this has been explained earlier, I'm aware of the benefits of fasting for a day and intermittent fasting but what are the benefits of fasting five days?

For me? Purely experimental at this stage.

Morning of day three, didn't update last night as I was knackered from a long day at work. Not tired during the actual work day but got home and just suddenly felt very tired so was in bed at 8pm. Woke at 5:30am feeling good. Not immediately hungry but as I type this I'm peckish, but don't crave food. Will have some water soon.

Haven't felt dizzy or anything like that. Have felt a bit jittery at times, but I believe that was the coffee. Focus good. Dreams are vivid. Had a weird one last night where I took a bit of something then got pissed off as I had ruined my fast, in my sleep :lol:


So just experimental? Not following any kind of recommended program or anything? So how you planning to measure the results? Just based on how you feel? No before vs after blood pressure test, cholesterol or anything?

No program. Don't eat, drink water and take a bit of salt so as not to get cramp.

I'm doing it for a couple if reasons. I've been bloated and had a bit of IBS recently so hoping to knock that on the head. And for the simple reason to see if I can do it. I've done two and three day fasts in the past and felt great afterwards.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:08 pm 
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The Native wrote:
booji boy wrote:
The Native wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Holy crap five days seems extreme Native. Apologies if this has been explained earlier, I'm aware of the benefits of fasting for a day and intermittent fasting but what are the benefits of fasting five days?

For me? Purely experimental at this stage.

Morning of day three, didn't update last night as I was knackered from a long day at work. Not tired during the actual work day but got home and just suddenly felt very tired so was in bed at 8pm. Woke at 5:30am feeling good. Not immediately hungry but as I type this I'm peckish, but don't crave food. Will have some water soon.

Haven't felt dizzy or anything like that. Have felt a bit jittery at times, but I believe that was the coffee. Focus good. Dreams are vivid. Had a weird one last night where I took a bit of something then got pissed off as I had ruined my fast, in my sleep :lol:


So just experimental? Not following any kind of recommended program or anything? So how you planning to measure the results? Just based on how you feel? No before vs after blood pressure test, cholesterol or anything?

No program. Don't eat, drink water and take a bit of salt so as not to get cramp.

I'm doing it for a couple if reasons. I've been bloated and had a bit of IBS recently so hoping to knock that on the head. And for the simple reason to see if I can do it. I've done two and three day fasts in the past and felt great afterwards.


:thumbup:

With regard to IBS have you tried going sugar free/low carb like Ali is doing? I've never had IBS but used to be bloated all the time. Switching to a low carb lifestyle completely eliminated it. No more indigestion and my asthma, which I'd had since childhood cleared up immediately. These were unexpected beneficial side effects of a diet I was doing just to lose weight. Might be worth a try post your fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:56 pm 
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It's only a recent thing and mostly down to a crap diet in the last 18 months. Reflux and IBS does run in my family so it was to be expected. Cutting out sugar and going low/no carb has definitely helped.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:50 am 
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Quick update. Woke up this morning feeling tired, but that was because I stayed up until 12 last night watching movies like an idiot. Had a shower, drank some water and out the door and on site at 7am. Busy morning, felt good. Got to the office around 11:45ish. Been great so far. Slightly hungry but not ravenous. Not outrageously thirsty though I've been pissing like a racehorse. At this stage I feel like I could go on for a whole week, perhaps even ten days. But I won't, because I love food too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:51 am 
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I'm contemplating doing a 2 day fast in about a week or so. Been ketogenic for about 10 days now and feeling really good but wouldn't mind losing a bit more weight before Christmas so it's not too much damage as I have a rugby tournament on the last weekend in January and would like to be nice and trim for it.

How are you getting your salt in?


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:17 am 
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Dissolved a teaspoon of salt in water. Necked it back. Doesn't have to be complicated. If your doing two days I wouldn't bother unless you plan on sweating profusely.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:57 am 
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Yep, planning on a decent run on the first day (90-120 minutes) so probably need some.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:57 am 
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I have water fasted multiple times for extended periods, once even for 30 days. Apart from improved bathroom function, energy levels, concentration levels and an evening out of facial skintone, the longest fast over its duration radically reduced facial scarring, scarring which had been present since my childhood/teenage years.

It gets much easier after 3/4 days but I have found that drinking hot water considerably reduces hunger and thoughts of food. After a week of fasting I could sit in a restaurant with other people who are eating and while interested in their food intellectually, anticipating my return to food, not be moved in the slightest to break the fast at that moment. That said, I have broken numerous attempted fasts in the first few days on the spur of the moment because the temptation of food right in front of me was too great to resist but once you pass the first 5/6 days then it is plain-sailing in that regard.

There is no feeling of physical pleasure like that of the first food again after an extended fast. Fireworks in the head, a smile from ear to ear for hours from a simple piece of fruit. The taste buds become more acute so that simple natural foods are incredibly satisfying.

I slept more deeply afterwards too and upon awakening my brain starts up immediately similar to when I was a child.



EDIT: After about a week of fasting, my face would have periods of being really pale, oily with deep black eye rings and lots of spots. This all cleared up by the third week leaving much healthier and improved skin. After a few weeks of fasting, old sports injuries that had never properly healed would flare up like they were fresh for a few hours at a time. This passed too and I haven't be bothered by these injuries in the year since...

I could deal with the hunger, occasional grogginess, frequently feeling lightheaded from any sudden movements, the sharp pains of old injuries but after the third week there was this dull aching in my legs that was a real bastard. I had real difficulty sleeping or getting comfortable when my legs were generally aching all over.



NB I don't tell anyone IRL about fasting (apart from my gf who has accepted by now that it will not kill me) because they will stress the fudge out of you attempting to force feed.


Last edited by Tschussie on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:01 am 
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I'm never going to fast - unless some group forces me. I couldn't even last the 40 hour famine as a kid and we were allowed barely sugar lollies! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:32 am 
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Thanks for sharing that Tschussie. Very interesting reading. After Christmas i think I'll try a 7 or 10 day fast. I share your indifference to food. Our office is stacked with food from suppliers as Christmas gifts and everyone is gorging themselves, but i feel no compulsion. Saying that, i am very much looking forward to the company dinner tomorrow night.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Tschussie wrote:
I have water fasted multiple times for extended periods, once even for 30 days. Apart from improved bathroom function, energy levels, concentration levels and an evening out of facial skintone, the longest fast over its duration radically reduced facial scarring, scarring which had been present since my childhood/teenage years.

It gets much easier after 3/4 days but I have found that drinking hot water considerably reduces hunger and thoughts of food. After a week of fasting I could sit in a restaurant with other people who are eating and while interested in their food intellectually, anticipating my return to food, not be moved in the slightest to break the fast at that moment. That said, I have broken numerous attempted fasts in the first few days on the spur of the moment because the temptation of food right in front of me was too great to resist but once you pass the first 5/6 days then it is plain-sailing in that regard.

There is no feeling of physical pleasure like that of the first food again after an extended fast. Fireworks in the head, a smile from ear to ear for hours from a simple piece of fruit. The taste buds become more acute so that simple natural foods are incredibly satisfying.

I slept more deeply afterwards too and upon awakening my brain starts up immediately similar to when I was a child.



EDIT: After about a week of fasting, my face would have periods of being really pale, oily with deep black eye rings and lots of spots. This all cleared up by the third week leaving much healthier and improved skin. After a few weeks of fasting, old sports injuries that had never properly healed would flare up like they were fresh for a few hours at a time. This passed too and I haven't be bothered by these injuries in the year since...

I could deal with the hunger, occasional grogginess, frequently feeling lightheaded from any sudden movements, the sharp pains of old injuries but after the third week there was this dull aching in my legs that was a real bastard. I had real difficulty sleeping or getting comfortable when my legs were generally aching all over.



NB I don't tell anyone IRL about fasting (apart from my gf who has accepted by now that it will not kill me) because they will stress the fudge out of you attempting to force feed.


How active are you during your fasts? Any exercise at all to speak of?


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 pm 
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I will write in more detail again in the morning but aside from stretching and gentle walking I would do no exercise. After a few days of fasting I am even afraid to cycle in case I got light-headed for a moment and lost concentration on the road.

Cardio exercise while fasting for more than a few days is supposedly extremely dangerous and could do permanent damage to the heart.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:12 pm 
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How do you not get irritable from not eating? After 4hrs without food I'm ready to rip someone's head off (I'm not a fatty, naturally an Ectomorph who finds it impossible to gain weight) .


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:41 pm 
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J Man wrote:
How do you not get irritable from not eating? After 4hrs without food I'm ready to rip someone's head off (I'm not a fatty, naturally an Ectomorph who finds it impossible to gain weight) .

I can't speak for anyone else, but once in a state of ketosis you'r burning fat as a fuel so there's always a constant supply of energy. When fasting that fuel is bodyfat and not food. I only get cranky when I was lacking in sleep and even then my moody is typically better.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:01 pm 
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Tschussie wrote:
I will write in more detail again in the morning but aside from stretching and gentle walking I would do no exercise. After a few days of fasting I am even afraid to cycle in case I got light-headed for a moment and lost concentration on the road.

Cardio exercise while fasting for more than a few days is supposedly extremely dangerous and could do permanent damage to the heart.

No worries, like I said I am thinking about doing a fast, but I might actually just add in a fasting day once a week. Maybe Monday would work for me as it's a rest day for gym and running so would work well.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:02 am 
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I don't get moody, but if I don't eat for a long period of time I get stomach pains and headaches.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:01 am 
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Quick update before I head out to break the fast at our company Christmas dinner.

The last five days has been very easy, surprisingly. Still had bouts of hunger but they weren't long or uncomfortable. I'm heading to Taupo this weekend to catch up with family so will have a bit of a blow out but am considering doing another five day fast next week.

Benefits I've felt include better focus, consistent energy levels, better sleep and mood. I've not noticed a single negative, other than feeling hungry every now and then. No idea if I have lost much weight and what I would've lost would be mostly water. If I fast next week I will weigh myself each morning and log the results.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:38 am 
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I am doing Isowhey shakes for breakfast and lunch to drop Kg's - after my surgery on my ankle, I'm still struggling to drop the weight I (Comfort Ate) put on in recovery.

It's working, slowly, which is better for long term goals.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:38 am 
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Hope you and your three year old weren't planning to swim in the Lake this weekend Native. Algal bloom has put it off limits. x(

The half ironman has cancelled the swim leg and added an extra running leg. Such a shame in this hot weather.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:12 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Hope you and your three year old weren't planning to swim in the Lake this weekend Native. Algal bloom has put it off limits. x(

The half ironman has cancelled the swim leg and added an extra running leg. Such a shame in this hot weather.

I saw that. Yeah, no way am I swimming in the Lake yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Just started my first proper no sugar diet in years. Been dipping chicken into houmous a lot for lunch. Ho hunger issues and outright resisted the chocolates at the dept meeting with no problem. #inthezone


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Didn't go too crazy over the weekend as far as food and drink went. Had a full three course meal on Friday night plus a couple of beers. Had some fried chicken at my brothers' place on Saturday at 2pm and didn't eat for the rest of the day. Had fried chicken waffles with eggs and bacon on the side for breakfast and corned beef, new potatoes and salad for dinner on Sunday. Snacked on cheese but that was the extent of my food consumption from Friday night to Sunday night.

I've decided to do another fast this week. This time from Monday to Sunday morning. I'll weight myself tomorrow morning and again before bed (discovered I need to get batteries for my scales) and log weight for the duration.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Just finished a 36 hour fast. Felt really good all the way through. Even did a 40 minute run 8 hours into the fast. I usually do 17/7 fasting anyway so just doubling that time felt pretty easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:00 pm 
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I'm keeping, roughly, to a 5/2 intermittent fasting diet - with the 2 fasting days @ 500kcals and keeping normal days sensible. Haven't given up eating anything. Have now lost 8.2kg - mostly from around my waist 8) I'd planned on just losing 1 kg per month but have been achieving 2kg without much effort or discomfort - or risking getting an eating disorder.......

4 kg to reach my target weight by the start of the cricket season.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:18 pm 
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I’ve been off sugar and carbs for about a month or so. Not my first go at it. I figure I’m down at least 15.

Two questions:

1) This relates to the fasting discussions. I’m not really hungry until about 11 am. I eat a meal then and another around 7 pm. Is this a good model or should I do more snacks and mini meals?

2) starting back into a gym routine to help the process and other benefits. What is the best approach to help the weight loss? I’m going to do weights and cardio regardless, but any insight would be appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:09 pm 
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I'd skip the cardio and just stay with the weights. If you're doing a low carb IF type diet cardio will just erode muscle mass. And muscle burns fat, so you want more.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:35 am 
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OttawaKat wrote:
I’ve been off sugar and carbs for about a month or so. Not my first go at it. I figure I’m down at least 15.

Two questions:

1) This relates to the fasting discussions. I’m not really hungry until about 11 am. I eat a meal then and another around 7 pm. Is this a good model or should I do more snacks and mini meals?

I’d stick to two meals if it’s working, more frequent eating means it will be easier to add unneeded calories.

2) starting back into a gym routine to help the process and other benefits. What is the best approach to help the weight loss? I’m going to do weights and cardio regardless, but any insight would be appreciated.
Variety, a mix of weights, low intensity (walking etc) and high intensity (sprints, HIIT) plus throw in some flexibility/ mobility if you can


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:00 am 
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I put on about 5kg living in Canada which at the time I attributed to giving up road running for gym cardio.

Having been back in Australia for nearly two years I realise it was likely more to do with my penchant for eating sugary mints all day long at work, plus other sweet treats. It added up to a lot of unnecessary sugar.

I'm slowly dropping the weight, but realise the road running wasn't nearly as effective as I thought it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:30 am 
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Been dropping 400gm - 600gm a week for the last 6 weeks after dropping 2kg in the first two weeks of my sugar cut out (I'd gotten back up to 95kg since a trip back to NZ in August where I had an eat anything policy that I forgot to stop when the trip finished!). Trying to get down to about 87kg which was my steady weight since 2014.

Probably would have dropped more but had a few carb heavy meals in the last two weeks (board meetings at my new work involve lots of dumplings and pork buns) and weekly Friday lunches with my old colleagues always seem to be burgers and other carbs. My exercise has actually dropped in the last few weeks too due to longer work hours.

Going to hit the weights a bit more over the Xmas period as I'll have a bit more spare time to see if I can burn a bit more fat - the puku is shrinking slower than normal sadly.

Not going to fast - that's not for me. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Interesting article about what sugar does to our brain. Apparently it makes us dumber.

http://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2017/ ... our-brain/


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:40 am 
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Quote:
But ultimately, says Professor Morris, the only magic pill is exercise and following the Australian Dietary Guidelines, which recommend limiting your intake of added sugars.


This article was mildly interesting until I got to this nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting sugar?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 834
Location: City Cow Titty, the kingdom
Ali's Choice wrote:
Interesting article about what sugar does to our brain. Apparently it makes us dumber.

http://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2017/ ... our-brain/

Can't follow that link for some reaaon, what's the synopsis? And is there a difference between natural sugars,eg apples and produced sugars?

Fair play all of you who are focussing on what you eat


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