Planet Rugby Forum

Enzedder wrote:Not really a "new low" though, was it? Just a little dig in my opinion

Enzedder wrote:Not really a "new low" though, was it? Just a little dig in my opinion

Bindi wrote:Simple statements of fact from Lyons. Johnson destroyed England utterly last Ashes in Oz. Don't see how that's controversial.

Asked if he thought Australia could end England careers again, Lyon said: "I hope so. I didn't end any careers. Mitchell Johnson ended them.
Johnson's 37 Ashes wickets in 2013-14

"If you ask him he'll say it was quite satisfying if you look at his past, the pressures the English put him under with the Barmy Army and everything.

"I know Root got dropped last time when he was here, so it'd be good to get him dropped again wouldn't it? If we can start by opening up that crack, it's pretty crucial.

LYON’S CAREER-ENDING PREDICTION

NATHAN Lyon raised eyebrows in the northern hemisphere with a bold pre-series barb that he hoped Australia could “end some careers” this summer.

Lyon caused an uproar when he suggested former England wicketkeeper Matt Prior was “scared” in the face of Mitchell Johnson’s pace barrage, and pointed to the trio of Jonathan Trott, Graeme Swan and Kevin Pietersen — who all had the end of their careers hastened by the 2013-14 whitewash — as something Australia wanted to replicate this summer.

And Fox Sports commentator Brett Geeves reckons Lyon’s hit the nail on the head in one way, except that it hasn’t come about because of Australia’s pace battalion.

It’s been Lyon himself.

And the bloke whose reputation has taken a massive hit was impressive all-rounder Moeen Ali, who has struggled mightily in Australia and seems odds-on to lose his spot for the fifth and final Ashes Test starting in Sydney on Thursday.

“Was it Nathan Lyon who spoke about ending careers before the Test? There was some back and forward between him and Matt Prior,” Geeves told the Fox Sports Cricket podcast.

“I think Nathan Lyon has ended Moeen Ali’s career. Seriously, I’ve not seen a man so bereft of confidence. He is lost. He looks like a child playing.

“His innings at the MCG was good at the start. He came out blazing and got himself to 20 and had a real opportunity to actually ride that confidence and create something.

“Instead, there was a real lack of maturity. He tried to hit a six over cover. It was just insane batting.

“His bowling has been really poor. He’s got to go and Crane has to play. Moeen Ali is going to be a really interesting one to watch moving forward. Nathan Lyon called, he was out to end careers.”

Bindi wrote:

Bindi wrote:Simple statements of fact from Lyons. Johnson destroyed England utterly last Ashes in Oz. Don't see how that's controversial.

Asked if he thought Australia could end England careers again, Lyon said: "I hope so. I didn't end any careers. Mitchell Johnson ended them.
Johnson's 37 Ashes wickets in 2013-14

"If you ask him he'll say it was quite satisfying if you look at his past, the pressures the English put him under with the Barmy Army and everything.

"I know Root got dropped last time when he was here, so it'd be good to get him dropped again wouldn't it? If we can start by opening up that crack, it's pretty crucial.

Nostradamus?

LYON’S CAREER-ENDING PREDICTION

NATHAN Lyon raised eyebrows in the northern hemisphere with a bold pre-series barb that he hoped Australia could “end some careers” this summer.

Lyon caused an uproar when he suggested former England wicketkeeper Matt Prior was “scared” in the face of Mitchell Johnson’s pace barrage, and pointed to the trio of Jonathan Trott, Graeme Swan and Kevin Pietersen — who all had the end of their careers hastened by the 2013-14 whitewash — as something Australia wanted to replicate this summer.

And Fox Sports commentator Brett Geeves reckons Lyon’s hit the nail on the head in one way, except that it hasn’t come about because of Australia’s pace battalion.

It’s been Lyon himself.

And the bloke whose reputation has taken a massive hit was impressive all-rounder Moeen Ali, who has struggled mightily in Australia and seems odds-on to lose his spot for the fifth and final Ashes Test starting in Sydney on Thursday.

“Was it Nathan Lyon who spoke about ending careers before the Test? There was some back and forward between him and Matt Prior,” Geeves told the Fox Sports Cricket podcast.

“I think Nathan Lyon has ended Moeen Ali’s career. Seriously, I’ve not seen a man so bereft of confidence. He is lost. He looks like a child playing.

“His innings at the MCG was good at the start. He came out blazing and got himself to 20 and had a real opportunity to actually ride that confidence and create something.

“Instead, there was a real lack of maturity. He tried to hit a six over cover. It was just insane batting.

“His bowling has been really poor. He’s got to go and Crane has to play. Moeen Ali is going to be a really interesting one to watch moving forward. Nathan Lyon called, he was out to end careers.”

ovalball wrote:Crane in for Woakes, confirmed as the only change for England. That looks like our weakest batting line up since the 90s.

Bit concerning that Crane's 1st class bowling average is 44 - he's not exactly forced his way into the side. Would love to see him do well though - he's an exciting talent but I wouldn't expect too much of him at this stage.

Dumbledore wrote:Brett Geeves is the worst. Got a ginormous chip about not getting picked for Australia and spends his entire time writing these Extremely Internet pieces about selection injustices.

Ali's had an absolute shocker, but he isn't the first and he won't be the last. Looks like he came in underdone, and it's not exactly the time and place to be finding form. He's the sort of player selectors will always give one more shot to than they should, rather than one too few.

The first thing to say is that Australia is no place for a visiting off-spinner. Even the best of them have struggled here: Graeme Swann averaged 53. Ravi Ashwin 55, Harbhajan Singh (who tormented Australia in home conditions) 73, Muttiah Muralitharan 75, Saeed Ajmal 111.

Crane in for Woakes, confirmed as the only change for England. That looks like our weakest batting line up since the 90s.

Brumby_in_Vic wrote:

Crane in for Woakes, confirmed as the only change for England. That looks like our weakest batting line up since the 90s.

In the 90s you still had players like Gooch, Athers, Robin Smith, Allan Lamb, Hussain, Stewart.

penguin wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Brett Geeves is the worst. Got a ginormous chip about not getting picked for Australia and spends his entire time writing these Extremely Internet pieces about selection injustices.

Ali's had an absolute shocker, but he isn't the first and he won't be the last. Looks like he came in underdone, and it's not exactly the time and place to be finding form. He's the sort of player selectors will always give one more shot to than they should, rather than one too few.

Yeah, he'll be back. This undeniably bad series comes just after an absolutely amazing summer, so it's not like he came in after a year of failures.

BetterByBoat wrote:

penguin wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Brett Geeves is the worst. Got a ginormous chip about not getting picked for Australia and spends his entire time writing these Extremely Internet pieces about selection injustices.

Ali's had an absolute shocker, but he isn't the first and he won't be the last. Looks like he came in underdone, and it's not exactly the time and place to be finding form. He's the sort of player selectors will always give one more shot to than they should, rather than one too few.

Yeah, he'll be back. This undeniably bad series comes just after an absolutely amazing summer, so it's not like he came in after a year of failures.

An amazing summer ???? These are Ali's stats in the 3 tests against a piss poor West Indies

First Test - Batting 0 \ DNB - Bowling 1-18 and 2-54
Second Test - Batting 22 \ 84 - Bowling 0-84 and 2-76
Third Test - Batting 3 \ DNB - Bowling 0-13 and 0-6

So a batting average of 27.25 and a bowling average of 50.2

Yes; he did well against South Africa earlier in the summer but that has been the exception rather than the norm for Ali given his performances in Bangladesh and India before that. He just isn't good enough with bat or ball for Test cricket.

penguin wrote:

Brumby_in_Vic wrote:

Crane in for Woakes, confirmed as the only change for England. That looks like our weakest batting line up since the 90s.

In the 90s you still had players like Gooch, Athers, Robin Smith, Allan Lamb, Hussain, Stewart.

Yes, but we could also sometimes put together batting lineups that included such luminous batting talents as Devon 'the glasses, they do nothing' Malcolm, Phil 'what end should I hold' Tufnell, Peter 'back away to leg' Such, Alan 'giraffe-human-hybrid' Mullaly...a joyous time for those of us who like our tailenders to be proper rabbits.

BetterByBoat wrote:

penguin wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Brett Geeves is the worst. Got a ginormous chip about not getting picked for Australia and spends his entire time writing these Extremely Internet pieces about selection injustices.

Ali's had an absolute shocker, but he isn't the first and he won't be the last. Looks like he came in underdone, and it's not exactly the time and place to be finding form. He's the sort of player selectors will always give one more shot to than they should, rather than one too few.

Yeah, he'll be back. This undeniably bad series comes just after an absolutely amazing summer, so it's not like he came in after a year of failures.

An amazing summer ???? These are Ali's stats in the 3 tests against a piss poor West Indies

First Test - Batting 0 \ DNB - Bowling 1-18 and 2-54
Second Test - Batting 22 \ 84 - Bowling 0-84 and 2-76
Third Test - Batting 3 \ DNB - Bowling 0-13 and 0-6

So a batting average of 27.25 and a bowling average of 50.2

Yes; he did well against South Africa earlier in the summer but that has been the exception rather than the norm for Ali given his performances in Bangladesh and India before that. He just isn't good enough with bat or ball for Test cricket.

Rinkals wrote:

BetterByBoat wrote:

penguin wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Brett Geeves is the worst. Got a ginormous chip about not getting picked for Australia and spends his entire time writing these Extremely Internet pieces about selection injustices.

Ali's had an absolute shocker, but he isn't the first and he won't be the last. Looks like he came in underdone, and it's not exactly the time and place to be finding form. He's the sort of player selectors will always give one more shot to than they should, rather than one too few.

Yeah, he'll be back. This undeniably bad series comes just after an absolutely amazing summer, so it's not like he came in after a year of failures.

An amazing summer ???? These are Ali's stats in the 3 tests against a piss poor West Indies

First Test - Batting 0 \ DNB - Bowling 1-18 and 2-54
Second Test - Batting 22 \ 84 - Bowling 0-84 and 2-76
Third Test - Batting 3 \ DNB - Bowling 0-13 and 0-6

So a batting average of 27.25 and a bowling average of 50.2

Yes; he did well against South Africa earlier in the summer but that has been the exception rather than the norm for Ali given his performances in Bangladesh and India before that. He just isn't good enough with bat or ball for Test cricket.

When did he injure his spinning finger? Before or after the WI tests?

My understanding is that the finger has meant that he cannot get the revs on the ball.

penguin wrote:

BetterByBoat wrote:

penguin wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Brett Geeves is the worst. Got a ginormous chip about not getting picked for Australia and spends his entire time writing these Extremely Internet pieces about selection injustices.

Ali's had an absolute shocker, but he isn't the first and he won't be the last. Looks like he came in underdone, and it's not exactly the time and place to be finding form. He's the sort of player selectors will always give one more shot to than they should, rather than one too few.

Yeah, he'll be back. This undeniably bad series comes just after an absolutely amazing summer, so it's not like he came in after a year of failures.

An amazing summer ???? These are Ali's stats in the 3 tests against a piss poor West Indies

First Test - Batting 0 \ DNB - Bowling 1-18 and 2-54
Second Test - Batting 22 \ 84 - Bowling 0-84 and 2-76
Third Test - Batting 3 \ DNB - Bowling 0-13 and 0-6

So a batting average of 27.25 and a bowling average of 50.2

Yes; he did well against South Africa earlier in the summer but that has been the exception rather than the norm for Ali given his performances in Bangladesh and India before that. He just isn't good enough with bat or ball for Test cricket.

Lies, damn lies, and all that...by most people's reckoning (and including ODIs too) he was having a great summer. Cherry picking the stats to back your version of events can certainly lead you to conclude he's not up to it, if that's what you want to do.

JM2K6 wrote:There's a kind of mass amnesia in English cricket at the moment when it comes to how poor we've been in Test series for some time.

grievous wrote:Some solid rain early this morning and showers predicted through the day so could be an interrupted day's play.

Mahoney wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:There's a kind of mass amnesia in English cricket at the moment when it comes to how poor we've been in Test series for some time.

Presumably you mean away test series?

JB1981 wrote:

Mahoney wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:There's a kind of mass amnesia in English cricket at the moment when it comes to how poor we've been in Test series for some time.

Presumably you mean away test series?

England did lose a home test to the West Indies and based on their performances in NZ, that takes some doing.

Mahoney wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:There's a kind of mass amnesia in English cricket at the moment when it comes to how poor we've been in Test series for some time.

Presumably you mean away test series?

grievous wrote:Play delayed

JM2K6 wrote:

Mahoney wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:There's a kind of mass amnesia in English cricket at the moment when it comes to how poor we've been in Test series for some time.

Presumably you mean away test series?

No - losing a Test to the WI, drawing with Pakistan, drawing with NZ, losing to Sri Lanka all happened in the last few years at home. Coupled with our appalling away record where we struggle to win a match and we're really not that hot.

If it wasn't for our successes against the Saffers...

Dumbledore wrote:Credit where it's due, Mark Nicholas at least willing to point out the obvious with Maxwell - that he's not getting picked because he's not 'gelling with the team' ie. he's not one of Smith's mates.

ovalball wrote:

grievous wrote:Play delayed

Covers off. Toss at 11.00am local time - play will start 11.30 that's in about 45 mins

ovalball wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Credit where it's due, Mark Nicholas at least willing to point out the obvious with Maxwell - that he's not getting picked because he's not 'gelling with the team' ie. he's not one of Smith's mates.

And his average over the last 20 ODIs has been a bit shabby - just 20 I think.

"I think just looking at the way he trains I think he could train a little bit smarter," Smith said. "We've all seen the way Glenn can come out and play and do all his funky stuff and be pretty cool with that, but when he puts his head down he's actually a really good batsman, as we've seen in Shield cricket he's got some big runs there.

"If he keeps his head switched on and trains really well and focuses on basic things more so than the expansive things, then I think that'll help him have his consistency and if he's having those consistent performances he's certainly a person you want in your team.

Dumbledore wrote:

ovalball wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Credit where it's due, Mark Nicholas at least willing to point out the obvious with Maxwell - that he's not getting picked because he's not 'gelling with the team' ie. he's not one of Smith's mates.

And his average over the last 20 ODIs has been a bit shabby - just 20 I think.

Really? Not hugely surprising tbh. He's always been a better T20 and four-day player than an ODI guy, his dominance in the World Cup was unusual. But still, that's not what's going on.

"I think just looking at the way he trains I think he could train a little bit smarter," Smith said. "We've all seen the way Glenn can come out and play and do all his funky stuff and be pretty cool with that, but when he puts his head down he's actually a really good batsman, as we've seen in Shield cricket he's got some big runs there.

"If he keeps his head switched on and trains really well and focuses on basic things more so than the expansive things, then I think that'll help him have his consistency and if he's having those consistent performances he's certainly a person you want in your team.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... e-recalled

Actually has your bit about his average over the last little while, so that probably does have something to do with it, but it doesn't really suit my narrative so I'm going to stick with Steve Smith being a plum

Dumbledore wrote:Credit where it's due, Mark Nicholas at least willing to point out the obvious with Maxwell - that he's not getting picked because he's not 'gelling with the team' ie. he's not one of Smith's mates.

grievous wrote:

Dumbledore wrote:Credit where it's due, Mark Nicholas at least willing to point out the obvious with Maxwell - that he's not getting picked because he's not 'gelling with the team' ie. he's not one of Smith's mates.

Yeah but his fluff pieces (like now during rain) sound like they have been read by Shaun Micallef in piss take mode.
I see Ian Chappell doesn't even bother sitting out in the Ashes desk on the ground with his bowls hat anymore, Bill Lawry can only speak in catchphrases or gush about Melbourne, looks to now only the the Ch Nein next gen out front of the cameras.
Don't think Warnie likes Nicholas either.
If you were marooned on an island with Michael Clarke or 30mins stuck in a lift for that matter.......would you kill yourself?
Some say the Big Bash commentary team is better but I don't watch it.

What's the pitch looking like Ellafan?

rett wrote:

Ellafan wrote:

Headingly used to be a good deck for the fast men. In 1989, Au went in with 4 pacemen - Alderman, Rackemann, Hughes and Campbell.

Rackemann didn’t play in any tests on the 89 tour.