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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:42 am 
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From Sport24:

Jimmy breaks jinx, Dale still stacks up better

Rob Houwing, Sport24 chief writer

Cape Town - It took him 30 innings to end the hoodoo, but England’s James Anderson, his Test career so often measured against South African rival Dale Steyn, can finally sport a five-wicket haul in Australia.

The tall seamer’s second-innings haul of 5/43 in the enthralling, ongoing second Ashes Test at Adelaide Oval on Tuesday played no small part in a determined fourth-day fightback by the tourists, already 1-0 down, who enter day five still in with an outside chance of levelling the series.

Ticking that particular statistical box by Anderson, in his fourth and quite probably last tour Down Under, will have come as a significant relief to the 35-year-old, after some 11 years of trying in that ever-prestigious cricketing country.

He continues to be an amazingly consistent, usually supremely fit member of the England side.

But even getting that Australian “five-for” monkey off his back at last probably doesn’t do a great deal to convince neutrals that his numbers generally rack up better in Test cricket than do long-time Proteas stalwart Steyn’s.

Just in Australia specifically, for instance, Steyn still holds fairly obvious sway for excellence over Burnley-born “Jimmy”.

It took the Phalaborwa Express, encouragingly headed for a long-awaited return to the Test fray against Zimbabwe in Port Elizabeth later this month, only three innings - by stark contrast - to hit the five-wicket jackpot Down Under.

That came in the historic second Test of the 2008/09 tour under Graeme Smith’s charge when Steyn’s spectacular 10-wicket haul in the match - five and five - was also accompanied by a career-best 76 with the bat and famous ninth-wicket stand of 180 with JP Duminy.

Steyn was a shoe-in for player of the match and SA clinched their first ever series triumph in Australia with one Test still to play.

Anderson’s record now in Australia is 51 wickets at an average of 36.21 (15 Tests), whilst Steyn, from eight fewer games, has 31 at 28.77.

In all Tests against the Aussies (home and away), Anderson has 95 scalps at 34.89, and Steyn 70 at an again well superior average of 27.47.

For what really should amount to confirmation that Steyn is a better traveller in the five-day format, a comparison of the two speedsters’ records on back-breaking Subcontinent surfaces is also educative.

In all Tests in Asia, Steyn has 90 wickets at 22.66, whilst Anderson’s tally is currently 59 at 30.00 – both having played 20 Test matches in those unfavourable conditions.

From all Test matches at home, Steyn boasts 241 wickets at 20.94 (46 games); Anderson 335 at 24.29 (76 games).

Away? Steyn stands at 162 scalps at 23.43 (35 Tests), and Anderson 157 at 34.80 - despite the Englishman’s advantage of 14 extra appearances.

Meanwhile in overall terms (with Anderson finished with bowling in the present Adelaide Test) he sports an overall Test tally of 514 wickets from 131 games at 27.34, and economy rate of 2.92.

Steyn, hopefully set for an injury-free run against Zimbabwe and then immediate follow-up major home series against India and Australia respectively, has 417 from 85 Tests at 22.30, although he leaks slightly more runs as his economy is 3.22.

The South African may do well from here, and aged 34, to join Anderson in reaching 500 Test wickets, something that would have been so much likelier had he not sat out so much activity over the last couple of years.

Although England also play considerably more Test matches than the Proteas do, you have to credit Anderson enormously for his longevity and ability to stay off the treatment table more often than not.

Only two seamers have more Test wickets than he does: Glenn McGrath (563) and Courtney Walsh (now a precarious five superior to Anderson with 519).

Yet this question is still very much worth posing: just how many poles might Dale Steyn boast if he’d played the same tally of Test matches as James Anderson?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 am 
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I'd have a Dale Steyn in my Aussie team every time over a Jammy Anderson.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:34 am 
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Jimmy's average is poor. He only has longevity on his side.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:35 am 
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How very needy.

The article and the copy and paste job


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:44 am 
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Please excuse Handyman, he is our very own Ian Healy of cricket: so very needy, and hardly articulate


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:15 am 
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Dobbin wrote:
How very needy.

The article and the copy and paste job


This. x(


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:51 am 
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Stories are scarce, these days.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 am 
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Fok, but some of us are really sensitive today. It's an article comparing 2 fast bowlers of the same generation, 1 clearly better than the other. Nothing more, nothing less.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:03 am 
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handyman wrote:
Fok, but some of us are really sensitive today. It's an article comparing 2 fast bowlers of the same generation, 1 clearly better than the other. Nothing more, nothing less.



Yep.

I was surprised by Steyn’s relatively shit statistics in Australia. Jimmy’s performances here have been criticised incessantly, but Dale (who is undoubtedly the better bowler) hasn’t always fired in Australia.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:07 am 
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Aren't Anderson's stats somewhat ridiculous if you split the first half of his career and his second?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:09 am 
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rett wrote:
handyman wrote:
Fok, but some of us are really sensitive today. It's an article comparing 2 fast bowlers of the same generation, 1 clearly better than the other. Nothing more, nothing less.



Yep.

I was surprised by Steyn’s relatively shit statistics in Australia. Jimmy’s performances here have been criticised incessantly, but Dale (who is undoubtedly the better bowler) hasn’t always fired in Australia.

True, in the early part of his career Aus punished him.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:12 am 
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earl the beaver wrote:
Aren't Anderson's stats somewhat ridiculous if you split the first half of his career and his second?


Yes. Certainly a late bloomer.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:19 am 
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earl the beaver wrote:
Aren't Anderson's stats somewhat ridiculous if you split the first half of his career and his second?

Yes, and even more so if you look at the last 4 years. Which is why it's in the last four years that he's risen up the rankings.

The rankings are pretty sound - Steyn peaked at 909 in 2014, making him the 11th best bowler ever. Jimmy's currently at 891 and peaked a few months ago at 896, 29th ever. So Steyn's been better than Anderson ever has, but right now Anderson is better; Steyn's dropped down to 748.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:29 am 
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Mahoney wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
Aren't Anderson's stats somewhat ridiculous if you split the first half of his career and his second?

Yes, and even more so if you look at the last 4 years. Which is why it's in the last four years that he's risen up the rankings.

The rankings are pretty sound - Steyn peaked at 909 in 2014, making him the 11th best bowler ever. Jimmy's currently at 891 and peaked a few months ago at 896, 29th ever. So Steyn's been better than Anderson ever has, but right now Anderson is better; Steyn's dropped down to 748.

Steyn's been out for more than a year, only playing for the Proteas late December. Should be interesting to track his return.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:35 am 
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handyman wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
Aren't Anderson's stats somewhat ridiculous if you split the first half of his career and his second?

Yes, and even more so if you look at the last 4 years. Which is why it's in the last four years that he's risen up the rankings.

The rankings are pretty sound - Steyn peaked at 909 in 2014, making him the 11th best bowler ever. Jimmy's currently at 891 and peaked a few months ago at 896, 29th ever. So Steyn's been better than Anderson ever has, but right now Anderson is better; Steyn's dropped down to 748.

Steyn's been out for more than a year, only playing for the Proteas late December. Should be interesting to track his return.


Indeed. Fast bowling is very physically demanding. Can he reinvent himself al la Lillee and Hadlee-rely on his guile?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:39 am 
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rett wrote:
handyman wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
Aren't Anderson's stats somewhat ridiculous if you split the first half of his career and his second?

Yes, and even more so if you look at the last 4 years. Which is why it's in the last four years that he's risen up the rankings.

The rankings are pretty sound - Steyn peaked at 909 in 2014, making him the 11th best bowler ever. Jimmy's currently at 891 and peaked a few months ago at 896, 29th ever. So Steyn's been better than Anderson ever has, but right now Anderson is better; Steyn's dropped down to 748.

Steyn's been out for more than a year, only playing for the Proteas late December. Should be interesting to track his return.


Indeed. Fast bowling is very physically demanding. Can he reinvent himself al la Lillee and Hadlee-rely on his guile?

He has been bowling at 135 kp/h + in the Ram Slam T 20. Obviously a test (4 day against ZIM) will be a lot harder, but he has to start somewhere.

Good pace, full and a swinging ball and you'll know Dalo is back.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Some people rely on statistics because they don't trust the judgment of their own eyes.

Anderson is clearly a better and more skilful bowler than Steyn - he can swing it both ways for one, which Steyn can't.

Steyn is clearly a good bowler, but his statistics are padded out by playing Bangladesh and Zimbabwe all the time.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:52 pm 
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MrDominator wrote:
Some people rely on statistics because they don't trust the judgment of their own eyes.

Anderson is clearly a better and more skilful bowler than Steyn - he can swing it both ways for one, which Steyn can't.

Steyn is clearly a good bowler, but his statistics are padded out by playing Bangladesh and Zimbabwe all the time.

So you're like a Sard then.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:59 pm 
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A very sad thread indeed. But as we are here...

Steyn is an all time great. No question. The rankings point above shows this. His average shows it. His strike rate shows it (and then some).

Anderson isn't. But had the two halves of his career been the other way around he would have been rated much higher by more people and people would be more likely to forgive the second half due to him "getting older".

I can't think of another bowler outside the absolute top tier (the Marshalls, McGraths and the handful of comparable bowlers) who I would prefer to have had in English conditions than Anderson V2.0 (and that includes Steyn). He has been genuinely unplayable on many occasions over the last few years.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Anderson is well ahead on the key stat of whinging column inches written about him by needy foreign columnists.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Steyn's consistency in the ratings is remarkable - a very minor blip between 2008 and 2010, but 2010 - 2015 he never dipped below 850 and was mostly around 900, give or take 9 rating points:

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/play ... g/?id=2542

It's only in the last year or two that Jimmy has been approaching that level:

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/play ... g/?id=2467


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:48 pm 
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MrDominator wrote:
Some people rely on statistics because they don't trust the judgment of their own eyes.

Anderson is clearly a better and more skilful bowler than Steyn - he can swing it both ways for one, which Steyn can't.

Steyn is clearly a good bowler, but his statistics are padded out by playing Bangladesh and Zimbabwe all the time.

Steyn has played Bangladesh and Zimbabwe a combined seven times vs Anderson's four times. On the other hand, Anderson has had the luxury of playing the West Indies 17 times whereas Steyn has only had that chance on nine occasions.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:56 pm 
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AD is the best Saffer bowler followed by Steyn


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