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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:32 am 
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spookly wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
And it also ignores the part where they were deliberately ordered to ignore the cruiser as it was a distraction and continue to fire upon the transports. Normally, a Death Star would have a fair bit of a protective fleet around it who would likely blow away an approaching enemy vessel. Before it got into range to do a lightspeed Kamikaze run.


What range limit of light speed? They always go light speed from where they are to where they want to be? And how could they stop, or even detect, some thing coming at them at light speed? The fact that the baddies have always had to have tracking devices on ships to track them after a light speed jump suggests they couldn't.


No, the existence of tracking devices indicates only that the Empire want to know where a ship ends up rather than just where it goes to when it leaves. Doesn't say anything about the possibility or otherwise of detecting a ship in hyperspace on its way to you


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:37 am 
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Brazil wrote:
The transport didn't render Snoke's ship completely inoperable, so effect on the death star would've been even less. Plus the rebels clearly have problems with resources, and it'd have made for a shite ending to both ANH and ROTJ to crash Spaceball 1 or something into it.


Well the rebels could have at least crashed some shite old ship into the Death Star primary weapon dish, that would at least curtail its planet/capital ship destroying capability for a while. Anyway, it would seem in the star wars universe FTL travel is a fairly routine mode of transport so even lobbing a few old freighters at the speed of light rather then rather more valuable 'ships of the line' into the Death Star / Dreadnaughts / Star Destroyers would have been an effective tactic.


Can't believe I am participating in this nerd off.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:41 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
spookly wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
And it also ignores the part where they were deliberately ordered to ignore the cruiser as it was a distraction and continue to fire upon the transports. Normally, a Death Star would have a fair bit of a protective fleet around it who would likely blow away an approaching enemy vessel. Before it got into range to do a lightspeed Kamikaze run.


What range limit of light speed? They always go light speed from where they are to where they want to be? And how could they stop, or even detect, some thing coming at them at light speed? The fact that the baddies have always had to have tracking devices on ships to track them after a light speed jump suggests they couldn't.


No, the existence of tracking devices indicates only that the Empire want to know where a ship ends up rather than just where it goes to when it leaves. Doesn't say anything about the possibility or otherwise of detecting a ship in hyperspace on its way to you


Star Trek can do that :nod:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:43 am 
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The worst aspect of this film, like TFA, is the lack of training Rey has to undergo to achieve anything.

Luke was struggling to get his lightsaber out of the snow in his 2nd film, she's already busted jedi mind tricks without knowing anything about the force and in this one does multiple feats that Luke / Anakin could only do after training with a master. Lots of training.

Why did the Jedi bother training kids at all - just wait till they are 18 and give them 10 minutes and that's all you need apparently.

plus the superman bit is shite.

plus the whole slow motion chase is shite and dumb.

man, there were lots of worst aspects when I come to think of it. Absolute bollocks film, worse than any of the prequels - at least they took care to respect the characters and mythology a bit more.

Lovely visuals though, I'll give it that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:45 am 
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WitchKing wrote:
The worst aspect of this film, like TFA, is the lack of training Rey has to undergo to achieve anything.

Luke was struggling to get his lightsaber out of the snow in his 2nd film, she's already busted jedi mind tricks without knowing anything about the force and in this one does multiple feats that Luke / Anakin could only do after training with a master. Lots of training.

Why did the Jedi bother training kids at all - just wait till they are 18 and give them 10 minutes and that's all you need apparently.

plus the superman bit is shite.

plus the whole slow motion chase is shite and dumb.

man, there were lots of worst aspects when I come to think of it. Absolute bollocks film, worse than any of the prequels - at least they took care to respect the characters and mythology a bit more.

Lovely visuals though, I'll give it that.


*Prepares considered post pointing out that the Force has always been treated inconsistently and not like a skillset to be learned so much as an innate characteristic of the user to be understood, and that the Jedi training in the Old Republic was mostly about following their organisation's rules rather than actually being proficient as a Force user*

*Sees "worse than any of the prequels"*

*Decides not to bother*


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:48 am 
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Does anybody really believe Rey’s parents were a couple of junkies?

If so, please explain the flashback scene in TFA when she first finds the Luke lightsabre.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am 
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shanky wrote:
Does anybody really believe Rey’s parents were a couple of junkies?

If so, please explain the flashback scene in TFA when she first finds the Luke lightsabre.

Thanks!


Nah, it's just Kylo telling her what he needs her to believe so he can carry out his plan of letting go of the past and (hopefully) have the two of them start things over anew.

Telling your crush that her parents are dead nobodies is an unorthodox move, but I've seen guys try worse chat up lines.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:52 am 
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shanky wrote:
Does anybody really believe Rey’s parents were a couple of junkies?


I'm certainly open to the possibility that they were just a pair of random nobodies. Open to new information on that front though, since we don't exactly have it from an unbiased source.

shanky wrote:
If so, please explain the flashback scene in TFA when she first finds the Luke lightsabre.


Said flashback doesn't really contradict the original assertion, it was very ambiguous


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:53 am 
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Back on the movie.
Went yesterday.

Overall i liked - however they are trying to hard i think. Too much in there, wasted characters...lots of comments as above. But still enjoyable .... still some magic.

I loved parts of TFA - for me this is just behind it. I still prefer Rogue One.

ESB, ROTJ, NH, RO, TFA, TLJ, ROTS, AOTC, & PM.

KG


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:53 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
The worst aspect of this film, like TFA, is the lack of training Rey has to undergo to achieve anything.

Luke was struggling to get his lightsaber out of the snow in his 2nd film, she's already busted jedi mind tricks without knowing anything about the force and in this one does multiple feats that Luke / Anakin could only do after training with a master. Lots of training.

Why did the Jedi bother training kids at all - just wait till they are 18 and give them 10 minutes and that's all you need apparently.

plus the superman bit is shite.

plus the whole slow motion chase is shite and dumb.

man, there were lots of worst aspects when I come to think of it. Absolute bollocks film, worse than any of the prequels - at least they took care to respect the characters and mythology a bit more.

Lovely visuals though, I'll give it that.


*Prepares considered post pointing out that the Force has always been treated inconsistently and not like a skillset to be learned so much as an innate characteristic of the user to be understood, and that the Jedi training in the Old Republic was mostly about following their organisation's rules rather than actually being proficient as a Force user*

*Sees "worse than any of the prequels"*

*Decides not to bother*


Gutted they didn't measure Rey's midichlorian levels. :(( Probably off the charts!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:56 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:

Telling your crush that her parents are dead nobodies is an unorthodox move, but I've seen guys try worse chat up lines.



That’s infantry though

Ren is staff college


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:57 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
The worst aspect of this film, like TFA, is the lack of training Rey has to undergo to achieve anything.

Luke was struggling to get his lightsaber out of the snow in his 2nd film, she's already busted jedi mind tricks without knowing anything about the force and in this one does multiple feats that Luke / Anakin could only do after training with a master. Lots of training.

Why did the Jedi bother training kids at all - just wait till they are 18 and give them 10 minutes and that's all you need apparently.

plus the superman bit is shite.

plus the whole slow motion chase is shite and dumb.

man, there were lots of worst aspects when I come to think of it. Absolute bollocks film, worse than any of the prequels - at least they took care to respect the characters and mythology a bit more.

Lovely visuals though, I'll give it that.


*Prepares considered post pointing out that the Force has always been treated inconsistently and not like a skillset to be learned so much as an innate characteristic of the user to be understood, and that the Jedi training in the Old Republic was mostly about following their organisation's rules rather than actually being proficient as a Force user*

*Sees "worse than any of the prequels"*

*Decides not to bother*


Just to be clear, the prequels were junk.

But they treated the mythology consistently and with some respect. The latest film doesn't. It treats the force like a superpower rather than something that has to be taught - previously there has always been the teacher / student relationship, for jedi or sith. There is zero force training for Rey but she's a master. Awesome.

Where is the inconsistency? support your claim - show me one other character who needed zero training to achieve jedi master powers.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
shanky wrote:
Does anybody really believe Rey’s parents were a couple of junkies?


I'm certainly open to the possibility that they were just a pair of random nobodies. Open to new information on that front though, since we don't exactly have it from an unbiased source.

shanky wrote:
If so, please explain the flashback scene in TFA when she first finds the Luke lightsabre.


Said flashback doesn't really contradict the original assertion, it was very ambiguous



If one flashbacks on meeting/touching every bit of Force memorabilia, why didn’t she do it on meeting Leia?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:00 pm 
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WitchKing wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
The worst aspect of this film, like TFA, is the lack of training Rey has to undergo to achieve anything.

Luke was struggling to get his lightsaber out of the snow in his 2nd film, she's already busted jedi mind tricks without knowing anything about the force and in this one does multiple feats that Luke / Anakin could only do after training with a master. Lots of training.

Why did the Jedi bother training kids at all - just wait till they are 18 and give them 10 minutes and that's all you need apparently.

plus the superman bit is shite.

plus the whole slow motion chase is shite and dumb.

man, there were lots of worst aspects when I come to think of it. Absolute bollocks film, worse than any of the prequels - at least they took care to respect the characters and mythology a bit more.

Lovely visuals though, I'll give it that.


*Prepares considered post pointing out that the Force has always been treated inconsistently and not like a skillset to be learned so much as an innate characteristic of the user to be understood, and that the Jedi training in the Old Republic was mostly about following their organisation's rules rather than actually being proficient as a Force user*

*Sees "worse than any of the prequels"*

*Decides not to bother*


Just to be clear, the prequels were junk.

But they treated the mythology consistently and with some respect. The latest film doesn't. It treats the force like a superpower rather than something that has to be taught - previously there has always been the teacher / student relationship, for jedi or sith. There is zero force training for Rey but she's a master. Awesome.

Where is the inconsistency? support your claim - show me one other character who needed zero training to achieve jedi master powers.


Anakin Skywalker and podracing. And Anakin was 50% of the characters we have seen go through the process of learning to be a force user. There really isn't a mythology here to be consistent or inconsistent to, if you think the previous films had laid down hard rules about how Jedi are taught you are simply mistaken.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:01 pm 
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shanky wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
shanky wrote:
Does anybody really believe Rey’s parents were a couple of junkies?


I'm certainly open to the possibility that they were just a pair of random nobodies. Open to new information on that front though, since we don't exactly have it from an unbiased source.

shanky wrote:
If so, please explain the flashback scene in TFA when she first finds the Luke lightsabre.


Said flashback doesn't really contradict the original assertion, it was very ambiguous



If one flashbacks on meeting/touching every bit of Force memorabilia, why didn’t she do it on meeting Leia?


Who said anything about "every bit of Force memorabilia"? Luke's lightsaber was clearly going to be relevant to Rey personally in the future, that doesn't have to be because of a family connection to it


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:02 pm 
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WitchKing wrote:

Just to be clear, the prequels were junk.

But they treated the mythology consistently and with some respect.


Midi - fucking - chlorians.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:03 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
shanky wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
shanky wrote:
Does anybody really believe Rey’s parents were a couple of junkies?


I'm certainly open to the possibility that they were just a pair of random nobodies. Open to new information on that front though, since we don't exactly have it from an unbiased source.

shanky wrote:
If so, please explain the flashback scene in TFA when she first finds the Luke lightsabre.


Said flashback doesn't really contradict the original assertion, it was very ambiguous



If one flashbacks on meeting/touching every bit of Force memorabilia, why didn’t she do it on meeting Leia?


Who said anything about "every bit of Force memorabilia"? Luke's lightsaber was clearly going to be relevant to Rey personally in the future, that doesn't have to be because of a family connection to it


I’m not convinced.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:11 pm 
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shanky wrote:
I’m not convinced.


The Force is beyond mortal ken, man. Let it go. Surrender to it.

Otherwise, Seagulls


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:14 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
shanky wrote:
I’m not convinced.


The Force is beyond mortal ken, man. Let it go. Surrender to it.

Otherwise, Seagulls



:lol: :lol:

Holy fvck.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
The worst aspect of this film, like TFA, is the lack of training Rey has to undergo to achieve anything.

Luke was struggling to get his lightsaber out of the snow in his 2nd film, she's already busted jedi mind tricks without knowing anything about the force and in this one does multiple feats that Luke / Anakin could only do after training with a master. Lots of training.

Why did the Jedi bother training kids at all - just wait till they are 18 and give them 10 minutes and that's all you need apparently.

plus the superman bit is shite.

plus the whole slow motion chase is shite and dumb.

man, there were lots of worst aspects when I come to think of it. Absolute bollocks film, worse than any of the prequels - at least they took care to respect the characters and mythology a bit more.

Lovely visuals though, I'll give it that.


*Prepares considered post pointing out that the Force has always been treated inconsistently and not like a skillset to be learned so much as an innate characteristic of the user to be understood, and that the Jedi training in the Old Republic was mostly about following their organisation's rules rather than actually being proficient as a Force user*

*Sees "worse than any of the prequels"*

*Decides not to bother*


Just to be clear, the prequels were junk.

But they treated the mythology consistently and with some respect. The latest film doesn't. It treats the force like a superpower rather than something that has to be taught - previously there has always been the teacher / student relationship, for jedi or sith. There is zero force training for Rey but she's a master. Awesome.

Where is the inconsistency? support your claim - show me one other character who needed zero training to achieve jedi master powers.


Anakin Skywalker and podracing. And Anakin was 50% of the characters we have seen go through the process of learning to be a force user. There really isn't a mythology here to be consistent or inconsistent to, if you think the previous films had laid down hard rules about how Jedi are taught you are simply mistaken.


You think that's comparable to what Rey can do? I'm talking about force powers - telekinesis, telepathy, advanced lightsaber combat - stuff that Jedi can do.
We were told he had great reflexes - that's it. There is no comparison. He's not learnt how to use his force stuff yet.

Tell me what's mistaken here chuckie:
All Jedi and Sith were taught by an experienced force user - we only see Anakin and Luke but we know that the other characters, including Qui-Gon and Dooku - were once Padawans who were taught.
The jedi temple had many young Padawans, being taught from an early age.
Luke's first attempt at lightsaber fighting was against a training robot and he got owned. Rey's was against a trained sith, or equivalent, and she owned him.

These are all things that we have seen in the films, not my opinions.

There is a mythology here and although it's not black and white to deny it exists is just bullshit.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
The worst aspect of this film, like TFA, is the lack of training Rey has to undergo to achieve anything.

Luke was struggling to get his lightsaber out of the snow in his 2nd film, she's already busted jedi mind tricks without knowing anything about the force and in this one does multiple feats that Luke / Anakin could only do after training with a master. Lots of training.

Why did the Jedi bother training kids at all - just wait till they are 18 and give them 10 minutes and that's all you need apparently.

plus the superman bit is shite.

plus the whole slow motion chase is shite and dumb.

man, there were lots of worst aspects when I come to think of it. Absolute bollocks film, worse than any of the prequels - at least they took care to respect the characters and mythology a bit more.

Lovely visuals though, I'll give it that.


*Prepares considered post pointing out that the Force has always been treated inconsistently and not like a skillset to be learned so much as an innate characteristic of the user to be understood, and that the Jedi training in the Old Republic was mostly about following their organisation's rules rather than actually being proficient as a Force user*

*Sees "worse than any of the prequels"*

*Decides not to bother*


Just to be clear, the prequels were junk.

But they treated the mythology consistently and with some respect. The latest film doesn't. It treats the force like a superpower rather than something that has to be taught - previously there has always been the teacher / student relationship, for jedi or sith. There is zero force training for Rey but she's a master. Awesome.

Where is the inconsistency? support your claim - show me one other character who needed zero training to achieve jedi master powers.


Anakin Skywalker and podracing. And Anakin was 50% of the characters we have seen go through the process of learning to be a force user. There really isn't a mythology here to be consistent or inconsistent to, if you think the previous films had laid down hard rules about how Jedi are taught you are simply mistaken.


Whatever you do, don't tell him how the slave boy at the end picked up his broom. That should require at least a year's training, leaving ample screentime for trade embargo negotiations...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:26 pm 
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I want to know who taught Rey and Poe to speak droid???


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Let’s be clear here.

We’ve swapped Han Solo and Luke Skywalker for emo-Finn and cheesey-Dameron.


Good work, Star Wars guardians...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:39 pm 
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shanky wrote:
Let’s be clear here.

We’ve swapped Han Solo and Luke Skywalker for emo-Finn and cheesey-Dameron.


Good work, Star Wars guardians...


Gen X-ers vs Millenials. No contest.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:43 pm 
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I wanted to like it.

it was crap


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
shanky wrote:
Let’s be clear here.

We’ve swapped Han Solo and Luke Skywalker for emo-Finn and cheesey-Dameron.


Good work, Star Wars guardians...


Gen X-ers vs Millenials. No contest.



:(


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:48 pm 
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WitchKing wrote:
You think that's comparable to what Rey can do? I'm talking about force powers - telekinesis, telepathy, advanced lightsaber combat - stuff that Jedi can do.
We were told he had great reflexes - that's it. There is no comparison. He's not learnt how to use his force stuff yet.

Tell me what's mistaken here chuckie:
All Jedi and Sith were taught by an experienced force user - we only see Anakin and Luke but we know that the other characters, including Qui-Gon and Dooku - were once Padawans who were taught.
The jedi temple had many young Padawans, being taught from an early age.
Luke's first attempt at lightsaber fighting was against a training robot and he got owned. Rey's was against a trained sith, or equivalent, and she owned him.

These are all things that we have seen in the films, not my opinions.

There is a mythology here and although it's not black and white to deny it exists is just bullshit.


Well, no, but Rey's a different character. The thing that the original trilogy emphasised was that the Force is not something you control but rather something that is part of you, and Luke's consistent problem with it was that he didn't really believe any of that and was just interested in treating it like a new ship to pilot. "That is why you fail". Rey obviously doesn't have the "I don't believe it" problem because she has grown up obsessing about the events of the original trilogy and dreams of turning out to be someone special in the same way Luke did. So the one thing we know for sure to be a barrier to learning to use the Force, she doesn't have. We never see a jedi master teaching a padawan how to use a lightsaber or how to control people's thoughts, it's just something Jedi can do. What we consistently see is masters teaching their padawans how to be Jedi, not how to use the Force. And what TLJ spent its time focusing on with Rey and Luke is the question of whether Rey should even want to be a Jedi. This is not inconsistent with the way the previous films have treated learning the Force, even though it is a different take on the process.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
You think that's comparable to what Rey can do? I'm talking about force powers - telekinesis, telepathy, advanced lightsaber combat - stuff that Jedi can do.
We were told he had great reflexes - that's it. There is no comparison. He's not learnt how to use his force stuff yet.

Tell me what's mistaken here chuckie:
All Jedi and Sith were taught by an experienced force user - we only see Anakin and Luke but we know that the other characters, including Qui-Gon and Dooku - were once Padawans who were taught.
The jedi temple had many young Padawans, being taught from an early age.
Luke's first attempt at lightsaber fighting was against a training robot and he got owned. Rey's was against a trained sith, or equivalent, and she owned him.

These are all things that we have seen in the films, not my opinions.

There is a mythology here and although it's not black and white to deny it exists is just bullshit.


Well, no, but Rey's a different character. The thing that the original trilogy emphasised was that the Force is not something you control but rather something that is part of you, and Luke's consistent problem with it was that he didn't really believe any of that and was just interested in treating it like a new ship to pilot. "That is why you fail". Rey obviously doesn't have the "I don't believe it" problem because she has grown up obsessing about the events of the original trilogy and dreams of turning out to be someone special in the same way Luke did. So the one thing we know for sure to be a barrier to learning to use the Force, she doesn't have. We never see a jedi master teaching a padawan how to use a lightsaber or how to control people's thoughts, it's just something Jedi can do. What we consistently see is masters teaching their padawans how to be Jedi, not how to use the Force. And what TLJ spent its time focusing on with Rey and Luke is the question of whether Rey should even want to be a Jedi. This is not inconsistent with the way the previous films have treated learning the Force, even though it is a different take on the process.


You could be right. The only reason why someone becomes a Jedi is to use the Light side of the force and avoid the dark. Otherwise you're a student of the Sith.

What we DO hear throughout the films is that you need special training to master the Dark side in particular. Sith Lords emphasize the training aspect even more than Yoda.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
You think that's comparable to what Rey can do? I'm talking about force powers - telekinesis, telepathy, advanced lightsaber combat - stuff that Jedi can do.
We were told he had great reflexes - that's it. There is no comparison. He's not learnt how to use his force stuff yet.

Tell me what's mistaken here chuckie:
All Jedi and Sith were taught by an experienced force user - we only see Anakin and Luke but we know that the other characters, including Qui-Gon and Dooku - were once Padawans who were taught.
The jedi temple had many young Padawans, being taught from an early age.
Luke's first attempt at lightsaber fighting was against a training robot and he got owned. Rey's was against a trained sith, or equivalent, and she owned him.

These are all things that we have seen in the films, not my opinions.

There is a mythology here and although it's not black and white to deny it exists is just bullshit.


Well, no, but Rey's a different character. The thing that the original trilogy emphasised was that the Force is not something you control but rather something that is part of you, and Luke's consistent problem with it was that he didn't really believe any of that and was just interested in treating it like a new ship to pilot. "That is why you fail". Rey obviously doesn't have the "I don't believe it" problem because she has grown up obsessing about the events of the original trilogy and dreams of turning out to be someone special in the same way Luke did. So the one thing we know for sure to be a barrier to learning to use the Force, she doesn't have. We never see a jedi master teaching a padawan how to use a lightsaber or how to control people's thoughts, it's just something Jedi can do. What we consistently see is masters teaching their padawans how to be Jedi, not how to use the Force. And what TLJ spent its time focusing on with Rey and Luke is the question of whether Rey should even want to be a Jedi. This is not inconsistent with the way the previous films have treated learning the Force, even though it is a different take on the process.


Luke and everyone before him needed training (including yoda, obi-wan, anakin, dooku), Rey doesn't. She's a jedi master instantly and without effort. She can do everything - fly the falcon just like Han? no worries. Beat down Luke Skywalker? not a problem. Jedi mind trick some dude - at once.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree if you think that's a positive development or somehow consistent with what has gone before.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:07 pm 
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She's not a Jedi master, she's just good at using the Force. The films have already made it clear that this is not what makes you a Jedi master


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:10 pm 
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kiwigreg369 wrote:

ESB, ROTJ, NH, RO, TFA, TLJ, ROTS, AOTC, & PM.

KG


Globusesque qualifications


Last edited by Pat the Ex Mat on Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
You think that's comparable to what Rey can do? I'm talking about force powers - telekinesis, telepathy, advanced lightsaber combat - stuff that Jedi can do.
We were told he had great reflexes - that's it. There is no comparison. He's not learnt how to use his force stuff yet.

Tell me what's mistaken here chuckie:
All Jedi and Sith were taught by an experienced force user - we only see Anakin and Luke but we know that the other characters, including Qui-Gon and Dooku - were once Padawans who were taught.
The jedi temple had many young Padawans, being taught from an early age.
Luke's first attempt at lightsaber fighting was against a training robot and he got owned. Rey's was against a trained sith, or equivalent, and she owned him.

These are all things that we have seen in the films, not my opinions.

There is a mythology here and although it's not black and white to deny it exists is just bullshit.


Well, no, but Rey's a different character. The thing that the original trilogy emphasised was that the Force is not something you control but rather something that is part of you, and Luke's consistent problem with it was that he didn't really believe any of that and was just interested in treating it like a new ship to pilot. "That is why you fail". Rey obviously doesn't have the "I don't believe it" problem because she has grown up obsessing about the events of the original trilogy and dreams of turning out to be someone special in the same way Luke did. So the one thing we know for sure to be a barrier to learning to use the Force, she doesn't have. We never see a jedi master teaching a padawan how to use a lightsaber or how to control people's thoughts, it's just something Jedi can do. What we consistently see is masters teaching their padawans how to be Jedi, not how to use the Force. And what TLJ spent its time focusing on with Rey and Luke is the question of whether Rey should even want to be a Jedi. This is not inconsistent with the way the previous films have treated learning the Force, even though it is a different take on the process.


Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
She's not a Jedi master, she's just good at using the Force. The films have already made it clear that this is not what makes you a Jedi master


name 1 other character who gets jedi master powers instantly and without effort or training?
just 1 will do it

where is it made clear that there are people with these powers that are not either jedi or sith?
just 1 will do it

If it's clear that using the force is not what makes you a jedi, show me the jedi that have no force powers
just 1 will do it

There may be more to being a jedi than the powers, but that's a major component. You have to be strong in the force.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:26 pm 
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WitchKing wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
She's not a Jedi master, she's just good at using the Force. The films have already made it clear that this is not what makes you a Jedi master


name 1 other character who gets jedi master powers instantly and without effort or training?
just 1 will do it

where is it made clear that there are people with these powers that are not either jedi or sith?
just 1 will do it

If it's clear that using the force is not what makes you a jedi, show me the jedi that have no force powers
just 1 will do it

There may be more to being a jedi than the powers, but that's a major component. You have to be strong in the force.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:27 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
She's not a Jedi master, she's just good at using the Force. The films have already made it clear that this is not what makes you a Jedi master


name 1 other character who gets jedi master powers instantly and without effort or training?
just 1 will do it

where is it made clear that there are people with these powers that are not either jedi or sith?
just 1 will do it

If it's clear that using the force is not what makes you a jedi, show me the jedi that have no force powers
just 1 will do it

There may be more to being a jedi than the powers, but that's a major component. You have to be strong in the force.


but she is, just without the robes and haircut

and training and effort


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:55 pm 
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They do go to fairly great lengths to make it clear that they haven't really felt anyone with Rey's raw power before - it scared Luke quite a lot.
If we think waaaaaaaay back to the title of VII, it's called 'The Force Awakens' - referring to when Rey picks up the Light Savre and has an 'Awakening'. Presumably this awakens the connection with the Force for her and is something that not all Jedi may go through, given the hushed tones in which it's spoken of. Short cut? Kinda. Doesn't help her control it, discipline herself or prevent her from heading straight to the Dark side which is apparently more seductive than Jessica Rabbit pouring a Roofie-colada down your throat.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Jessica Rabbit pouring a Roofie-colada down your throat.



I like the way your mind works :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:59 pm 
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danny_fitz wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
WitchKing wrote:
You think that's comparable to what Rey can do? I'm talking about force powers - telekinesis, telepathy, advanced lightsaber combat - stuff that Jedi can do.
We were told he had great reflexes - that's it. There is no comparison. He's not learnt how to use his force stuff yet.

Tell me what's mistaken here chuckie:
All Jedi and Sith were taught by an experienced force user - we only see Anakin and Luke but we know that the other characters, including Qui-Gon and Dooku - were once Padawans who were taught.
The jedi temple had many young Padawans, being taught from an early age.
Luke's first attempt at lightsaber fighting was against a training robot and he got owned. Rey's was against a trained sith, or equivalent, and she owned him.

These are all things that we have seen in the films, not my opinions.

There is a mythology here and although it's not black and white to deny it exists is just bullshit.


Well, no, but Rey's a different character. The thing that the original trilogy emphasised was that the Force is not something you control but rather something that is part of you, and Luke's consistent problem with it was that he didn't really believe any of that and was just interested in treating it like a new ship to pilot. "That is why you fail". Rey obviously doesn't have the "I don't believe it" problem because she has grown up obsessing about the events of the original trilogy and dreams of turning out to be someone special in the same way Luke did. So the one thing we know for sure to be a barrier to learning to use the Force, she doesn't have. We never see a jedi master teaching a padawan how to use a lightsaber or how to control people's thoughts, it's just something Jedi can do. What we consistently see is masters teaching their padawans how to be Jedi, not how to use the Force. And what TLJ spent its time focusing on with Rey and Luke is the question of whether Rey should even want to be a Jedi. This is not inconsistent with the way the previous films have treated learning the Force, even though it is a different take on the process.


Image


Not explicitly stated to be padawans, the implication is that they are still very raw.

WitchKing wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
She's not a Jedi master, she's just good at using the Force. The films have already made it clear that this is not what makes you a Jedi master


name 1 other character who gets jedi master powers instantly and without effort or training?
just 1 will do it

where is it made clear that there are people with these powers that are not either jedi or sith?
just 1 will do it

If it's clear that using the force is not what makes you a jedi, show me the jedi that have no force powers
just 1 will do it

There may be more to being a jedi than the powers, but that's a major component. You have to be strong in the force.


What are "jedi master powers"?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:59 pm 
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WitchKing wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
She's not a Jedi master, she's just good at using the Force. The films have already made it clear that this is not what makes you a Jedi master


name 1 other character who gets jedi master powers instantly and without effort or training?
just 1 will do it



Leia seems to be able to communicate with Luke over long distances without training, then flies like Jesus. She's only trained in princessing and complaining.
.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Saw the Last Jedi last night - was disappointed. Terrible plot holes, 'Disney' moments, lack of depth and token characters ruined the film (before we even get to the terrible dialogue and hammy performances).

On a par with Revenge of the Sith in my opinion. 4/10


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