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Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:58 pm
by Deadtigers
flaggETERNAL wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Epic mantrum.
Of course, there will still be those voters who snarl, “She didn’t earn my vote,” as if somehow their narcissism should override all other considerations in the election. That, however, is not what an election is about. Voters are charged with choosing the best person to lead the country, not the one who appeals the most to their egos.
Got that right bro. And I will do it again in 2020 if need be. :smug:
It's so tiring hearing about votes for 3rd party candidates led to Trump winning. Clinton won the popular vote which negates that. She just ran a poor campaign. And was a poor candidate for a myriad reasons.
I feel the same way when I hear Bernie people crying about how it was stolen from him by the DNC. Some how a black guy can beat the odds but not Bernie. I am getting ready for work and will be based ck to explain what is wrong in Fonz's theory and looking at 2020

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:17 pm
by eldanielfire
Mr Mike wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oser-texas

The Democrats are paying for adverts to attack their own candidates I shit you not!
We are getting Republican self-attack adverts also, but their own work is damaging enough.

https://www.click2houston.com/video/kat ... ertisement
I'm happy for the republican party to eat itself.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:03 pm
by Flyin Ryan
There's no point even doing speculation til after the 2018 midterms.

Look at the most recent open candidate races this century and the going wisdom this far out was all almost entirely wrong.

About the most interesting thing I saw recently was John Kasich's comments the two-party system may be coming to an end.

Re Kennedy, I know politics in general has a lot of hypocrisy, but the Democrats champion themselves as party of the commoner, and yet we're bigging up something that owes all presence she has politically to her last name? Both parties do this way too much. The local Democratic Party where I'm at is this way. It seems they have two wings: the black wing, and then there's 3 to 4 white families who constantly show up as the ones that get elected/on boards/etc.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:07 pm
by Chuckles1188
Flyin Ryan wrote: About the most interesting thing I saw recently was John Kasich's comments the two-party system may be coming to an end.
It isn't. It's conceivable that the identity of the two parties might change, but as long as First Past The Post is the system by which elections are decided, two is the ceiling

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:38 pm
by Flyin Ryan
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote: About the most interesting thing I saw recently was John Kasich's comments the two-party system may be coming to an end.
It isn't. It's conceivable that the identity of the two parties might change, but as long as First Past The Post is the system by which elections are decided, two is the ceiling
The issue is that both parties are so incredibly weak in most areas (Republicans - urban areas, Democrats - rural areas, small towns), that you could create a third party in there to push aside each party in those. If you're a Democrat in a city of 20k, chances are you're not winning, regardless of what happens. Ditto the Republican in the Bronx. If there was a party between the two on issues, it's going to be more likely to win than the Democrat. Ditto city Republicans. The state of each party is such that there's a lot of people upset with what they consider their "home party" but they would never consider voting for the other.

There's also the point of you could still be first past the post, but if one party doesn't field a candidate in a race, you're not splitting the vote as a third entity, and the one party not on the ballot, all their voters will vote for you. It's how some Libertarians get 25% in some congress races.

Here's my county for the 2018 elections and how things for now look in the general, we've closed candidate filing for the primaries a few weeks ago:

Countywide Positions: 5

2 contested, 3 Republican-only; a 3rd party could enter in those 3 and not split the vote

County Commission (legislature): 2 of the 3 districts up

1 contested, 1 Republican-only; a 3rd party could enter and not split the vote

County Council (finance): 4 of the 7 seats up

2 contested, 2 Republican-only

In the 15 county-level elections, a 3rd party could enter in 6 of them and not have any Democrat opposition.

In township-level races, it's 80% of the 20 (a few Democrat-only, but mostly Republican-only). And a candidate could automatically win a Board seat if he or she got on the ballot in some cases because you vote for 3 and there may be less than 3 candidates in smaller townships.

For the state legislature, of the 11 Senate and representative seats in my county, 4 of them had a person from both parties file.

And this is actually an improvement. More people have filed this year than most years.

The 2016 election made perfectly perfectly clear how weak and vulnerable both parties are. Donald Trump was not a Republican and won the Republican nomination for President. Bernie Sanders was and still is not a Democrat and gave party establishment uber-favorite Hillary Clinton far more of a fight than he had any right to, to the point that the Democratic National Committee got called out on favoring Hillary and their chair was forced to resign. The only reason they have any strength is tradition and ballot access.

The Democrats have far more rot than the Republicans do. Barack Obama during his presidency did not give a shit about the state parties, grassroots, or local elections, and it showed in election results (the Republicans then turned around and also elected for president someone that only cares about himself). All I really need to take over my local Democratic Party branch even in where I live which is a top 100 city for population, is about 25 people at a precinct meeting. That's not an exaggeration. The county Democrats are having precinct elections during the May primary, and out of 300+ precincts county-wide, 58 of them have candidate filings. The more rural county to the west my wife is from has 11 filings from 34 precincts, so there, all I need to take over the local Democrat branch is SIX PEOPLE! These precinct members vote on filling midterm vacancies for party members that were elected, and elect the county party leadership. So imagine what it's like in a not top 100 city or a county where Clinton lost by say 40 points. The Democrats are by fact dead in these places, just as the Republicans are by fact dead in the urban areas of the northeast.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:50 pm
by Bowens
Deadtigers wrote:
flaggETERNAL wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Epic mantrum.
Of course, there will still be those voters who snarl, “She didn’t earn my vote,” as if somehow their narcissism should override all other considerations in the election. That, however, is not what an election is about. Voters are charged with choosing the best person to lead the country, not the one who appeals the most to their egos.
Got that right bro. And I will do it again in 2020 if need be. :smug:
It's so tiring hearing about votes for 3rd party candidates led to Trump winning. Clinton won the popular vote which negates that. She just ran a poor campaign. And was a poor candidate for a myriad reasons.
I feel the same way when I hear Bernie people crying about how it was stolen from him by the DNC. Some how a black guy can beat the odds but not Bernie. I am getting ready for work and will be based ck to explain what is wrong in Fonz's theory and looking at 2020
As FR pointed out, you're talking about an independent who ran against the party machine in Bernie. Not comparable to Obama. The only thing they have in common is being a better choice than Hillary Clinton. Obviously Obama won and Hillary lost, but what's interesting is that Trump grasped some of Bernie's populist momentum and used it to beat the DNC. But looking at some of their midterm candidates, I think they are slowly starting to see the light. They need to return to the roots the party was built on. The strong backing of Randy Bryce by the DCCC is a good sign. Richard Ojeda in West Virginia is another guy I have hopes for.

Here's a good article on some of the above, showing that working people in this country are waking up to their economic reality: http://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/375 ... mp-country

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:26 pm
by Bowens
Good article on Ojeda today. It has implications for the 2020 candidate - if you want to win in the industrial Midwest and pick up voters in the south, they need to be able to relate to ordinary people. This was Hillary's biggest flaw.
In hard red, Donald Trump-loving West Virginia, Ojeda has become a kind of one-man blue wave, threatening to defy a conventional belief that the only kind of Democrat that can win big races here—or anywhere, for that matter, in Appalachia or the industrial Midwest—is somebody like Joe Manchin, the most conservative Democrat in the United States Senate, a pragmatic, pro-business social conservative. Because here is Ojeda, a pro-labor, twang-talking, plainspoken populist, scrambling the state’s recent rightward shift by harkening back to a deeper, more radical vein of its rich political history. In the early 20th century, miners fought and died for higher wages and safer working conditions while wearing red bandanas and carrying Winchester rifles. Now, teachers are the new miners; in fact, in a place all but defined by its coal heritage, there are some 20,000 teachers and fewer than 12,000 miners, making the teachers—plus the 13,000 staff who walked off the job with them—by far the largest union in the state. And here, as I hustled after Ojeda into the bustling Capitol, the striking school employees weren’t armed—but many were dressed in red. And some of them had knotted around their necks those bandanas.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/amp/s ... one-217217
:thumbup:

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:33 pm
by Deadtigers
Bowens wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
flaggETERNAL wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Epic mantrum.
Of course, there will still be those voters who snarl, “She didn’t earn my vote,” as if somehow their narcissism should override all other considerations in the election. That, however, is not what an election is about. Voters are charged with choosing the best person to lead the country, not the one who appeals the most to their egos.
Got that right bro. And I will do it again in 2020 if need be. :smug:
It's so tiring hearing about votes for 3rd party candidates led to Trump winning. Clinton won the popular vote which negates that. She just ran a poor campaign. And was a poor candidate for a myriad reasons.
I feel the same way when I hear Bernie people crying about how it was stolen from him by the DNC. Some how a black guy can beat the odds but not Bernie. I am getting ready for work and will be based ck to explain what is wrong in Fonz's theory and looking at 2020
As FR pointed out, you're talking about an independent who ran against the party machine in Bernie. Not comparable to Obama. The only thing they have in common is being a better choice than Hillary Clinton. Obviously Obama won and Hillary lost, but what's interesting is that Trump grasped some of Bernie's populist momentum and used it to beat the DNC. But looking at some of their midterm candidates, I think they are slowly starting to see the light. They need to return to the roots the party was built on. The strong backing of Randy Bryce by the DCCC is a good sign. Richard Ojeda in West Virginia is another guy I have hopes for.

Here's a good article on some of the above, showing that working people in this country are waking up to their economic reality: http://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/375 ... mp-country
A. f**king. BLACK. GUY

Sorry, I refuse to grasp that Bernie had longer odds when he just jumped on board. I think it is a cop-out Bernie supporters make to act like he had the most uphill task in the world rather than admit their guy ran a poor campaign. He didn't have a civil justice message or a social justice message that made it thorough to people only Economic justice. I am sure you can find some crap on his website but I am talking about what people actually heard which was less than zero.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:35 pm
by Bowens
I don't know what Obama's mixed background has to do with anything. There are a good number of people who voted for him and switched to Trump. They just hate the Clintons that much.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:45 pm
by Deadtigers
Bowens wrote:I don't know what Obama's mixed background has to do with anything. There are a good number of people who voted for him and switched to Trump. They just hate the Clintons that much.
I am saying the idea that Bernie had it harder than Obama is absolutely ludicrous. It is a way of avoiding properly dissecting his campaign and all the way he failed. From antagonizing the DNC, cheating, poor messaging, starting late. All these things he did that made him a failed candidate but it is all excused because its Bernie. Meanwhile, Hillary is treated as a shitwitch who won't admit she lost cause sucked and if she says anything contrary it just confirms it.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:47 pm
by Flyin Ryan
It's kind of ridiculous to think that Obama overcame overwhelming odds. Yes, first-ever African-American to win the nomination and presidency, but I saw fundraising reports the New York Times posted in mid-to-late 2007, before a single primary or caucus had taken place. Obama had as much fundraising from Manhattan (Big Business Central) as Senator from New York State Hillary Clinton did. The powerbrokers and big bucks in the party at that point were on board with him. The Congressional Black Caucus though didn't at first support him, they were a strong Bill Clinton constituency and were with Hillary until they realized that all their constituents were with Obama. (He was also helped by the John Edwards implosion and scandal resulting in all the anti-Hillary folks coalescing around him alone.) And once he won the nomination, that was an election going in you were expecting the Democrat to win, regardless of candidates due to the state of the country at that point in time. Throw in a divided Republican Party that didn't fully back their chosen candidate in McCain.

Clinton was an overwhelming favorite for a long time until Chris Dodd challenged her in a debate over her stance on ID cards, then Clinton stumbled for most of a minute over a response and that was the dent in her armor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0uHybfmmY I remember the next debate Wolf Blitzer of CNN went through everyone left-to-right on their stance on it, he got to Clinton whose entire response was "no", and he went to the next candidate. Completely disgraceful moment in the history of political debate moderation. Anyway, Hillary's flaws in 2008, Hillary's flaws in 2016.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:57 pm
by Chuckles1188
Flyin Ryan wrote:It's kind of ridiculous to think that Obama overcame overwhelming odds. Yes, first-ever African-American to win the nomination and presidency, but I saw fundraising reports the New York Times posted in mid-to-late 2007, before a single primary or caucus had taken place. Obama had as much fundraising from Manhattan (Big Business Central) as Senator from New York State Hillary Clinton did. The powerbrokers and big bucks in the party at that point were on board with him. The Congressional Black Caucus though didn't at first support him, they were a strong Bill Clinton constituency and were with Hillary until they realized that all their constituents were with Obama. (He was also helped by the John Edwards implosion and scandal resulting in all the anti-Hillary folks coalescing around him alone.) And once he won the nomination, that was an election going in you were expecting the Democrat to win, regardless of candidates due to the state of the country at that point in time. Throw in a divided Republican Party that didn't fully back their chosen candidate in McCain.

Clinton was an overwhelming favorite for a long time until Chris Dodd challenged her in a debate over her stance on ID cards, then Clinton stumbled for most of a minute over a response and that was the dent in her armor. The moderator then changed topics. I remember the next debate Wolf Blitzer of CNN went through everyone left-to-right on their stance on it, he got to Clinton whose entire response was "no", and he went to the next candidate. Completely disgraceful moment in the history of political debate moderation.
He was to the Democrats what Trump was to the Republicans in 2016, based on his positioning at the time - an almost magically-charismatic "outsider" (bearing in mind Dems are less nakedly anti-gov than Rs) promising change and to make Americans' lives better. Completely agree that any Democrat would have won the White House in 2008, Dubya was the least popular President of all time at that point and his administration and Congress were both awash in scandal. The hard yards for Obama were before 08 and even winning the nomination was something he was well placed for.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:03 pm
by Deadtigers
Bowens wrote:Good article on Ojeda today. It has implications for the 2020 candidate - if you want to win in the industrial Midwest and pick up voters in the south, they need to be able to relate to ordinary people. This was Hillary's biggest flaw.
In hard red, Donald Trump-loving West Virginia, Ojeda has become a kind of one-man blue wave, threatening to defy a conventional belief that the only kind of Democrat that can win big races here—or anywhere, for that matter, in Appalachia or the industrial Midwest—is somebody like Joe Manchin, the most conservative Democrat in the United States Senate, a pragmatic, pro-business social conservative. Because here is Ojeda, a pro-labor, twang-talking, plainspoken populist, scrambling the state’s recent rightward shift by harkening back to a deeper, more radical vein of its rich political history. In the early 20th century, miners fought and died for higher wages and safer working conditions while wearing red bandanas and carrying Winchester rifles. Now, teachers are the new miners; in fact, in a place all but defined by its coal heritage, there are some 20,000 teachers and fewer than 12,000 miners, making the teachers—plus the 13,000 staff who walked off the job with them—by far the largest union in the state. And here, as I hustled after Ojeda into the bustling Capitol, the striking school employees weren’t armed—but many were dressed in red. And some of them had knotted around their necks those bandanas.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/amp/s ... one-217217
:thumbup:
I have heard good things about this guy, from politico and other website. I don't like how he anglicized Oh-He-Da, but whatever. I hope Connor Lamb can do the same!

Btw, What do people think of Buttegeige? I think he has a bright future but he needs a middle step. From Mayor to Gov or National District Rep at the least. He ticks a lot of boxes, the only hang up is will the fact that he is gay, drum up enough hate on the right to stop him? After 2016, I never underestimate how much hate is a motivating factor to the right.

These guys are not for 2020 just about the Dem party in general.

I am surprise there is no thread on the WV teacher's strike. I think I will make one later today or tomorrow.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:44 pm
by Bowens
I think Buttgeig is probably a future DNC chair. I like Lamb's policies mostly but he could be stronger on healthcare.

Larry Sabato just updated his crystal ball for the midterms. Paul Ryan's seat has been downgraded from "safe" for probably the first time in his political career.

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crysta ... democrats/

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:05 pm
by Deadtigers
Bowens wrote:I think Buttgeig is probably a future DNC chair. I like Lamb's policies mostly but he could be stronger on healthcare.

Larry Sabato just updated his crystal ball for the midterms. Paul Ryan's seat has been downgraded from "safe" for probably the first time in his political career.

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crysta ... democrats/
You really love Ironstache don't you. I see Lamb is now crushing his opponent. I think Lamb can be stronger on healthcare too but I don't think he is gonna make that public just yet.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:16 pm
by RWC2015
I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the White House. She's the real deal.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:29 pm
by Deadtigers
RWC2015 wrote:I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the White House. She's the real deal.
I would want to see her head up labor or economic rights. She is a one trick pony but very good at the trick. She knows economics and I would love her to get on top of banks, bring back Glass-Stegall or strengthen Dodd-Frank. Get back to workers rights in retail and part-time work structure. That is what she is brilliant at, not sure about more than that.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:29 pm
by Flyin Ryan
Buttigieg is Mayor of South Bend. He has the same problem the mayor of my city which is larger than South Bend has: there's no regional position to promote into where he has a good chance of winning. Sure, he could do state legislature, but he has higher aspirations that that, otherwise he'd've never done that stuff for DNC chair. He'd never win statewide, maybe not even a primary (he's made waves or tried to in party circles nationally, not aware of him doing anything with the Indiana Democratic Party and I try to follow this stuff now), so governor and senator is out. That leaves Congress, and that seat is more up in the air now, but Buttigieg didn't choose to run for it, even in this climate.

This election, Democrat Senator Joe Donnelly is up for reelection, so no Democrats challenged him. So in 2020, Buttigieg could try and go for governor because the state Democrats at the moment have no bench and have exhausted their old guard of candidates.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:39 pm
by Deadtigers
Flyin Ryan wrote:Buttigieg is Mayor of South Bend. He has the same problem the mayor of my city which is larger than South Bend has: there's no regional position to promote into where he has a good chance of winning. Sure, he could do state legislature, but he has higher aspirations that that, otherwise he'd've never done that stuff for DNC chair. He'd never win statewide, maybe not even a primary (he's made waves or tried to in party circles nationally, not aware of him doing anything with the Indiana Democratic Party and I try to follow this stuff now), so governor and senator is out. That leaves Congress, and that seat is more up in the air now, but Buttigieg didn't choose to run for it, even in this climate.

This election, Democrat Senator Joe Donnelly is up for reelection, so no Democrats challenged him. So in 2020, Buttigieg could try and go for governor because the state Democrats at the moment have no bench and have exhausted their old guard of candidates.
The Dems were so take your turn that there has been a weak bench nationally and in lots of states. Trump has been the Dem tea party movement and a lot of new voices are coming out the woodwork to really shake the party up. It is interesting to watch and gives me hope. Now we just need a GOP meltdown and rebuild and see if we can find some more decent people on that side of the isle.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:55 am
by Flyin Ryan
Deadtigers wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:Buttigieg is Mayor of South Bend. He has the same problem the mayor of my city which is larger than South Bend has: there's no regional position to promote into where he has a good chance of winning. Sure, he could do state legislature, but he has higher aspirations that that, otherwise he'd've never done that stuff for DNC chair. He'd never win statewide, maybe not even a primary (he's made waves or tried to in party circles nationally, not aware of him doing anything with the Indiana Democratic Party and I try to follow this stuff now), so governor and senator is out. That leaves Congress, and that seat is more up in the air now, but Buttigieg didn't choose to run for it, even in this climate.

This election, Democrat Senator Joe Donnelly is up for reelection, so no Democrats challenged him. So in 2020, Buttigieg could try and go for governor because the state Democrats at the moment have no bench and have exhausted their old guard of candidates.
The Dems were so take your turn that there has been a weak bench nationally and in lots of states. Trump has been the Dem tea party movement and a lot of new voices are coming out the woodwork to really shake the party up. It is interesting to watch and gives me hope. Now we just need a GOP meltdown and rebuild and see if we can find some more decent people on that side of the isle.
You ridiculed these same people less than 2 years ago because they were Sanders supporters. :lol: We can go back and find your posts on it.

Hey, if Democrats actually talk about issues that matter to the majority of the electorate, it'd be of benefit for everyone.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:59 am
by Bowens
FR we have all met. DT is an American blue collar background man at the end of the day. That's why me and him relate.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:11 am
by Flyin Ryan
Bowens wrote:FR we have all met. DT is an American blue collar background man at the end of the day. That's why me and him relate.
Have nothing bad to say about either of you, anyone I've met, or most of the people on this board. We all enjoy the discussion and getting challenged sometimes, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:15 am
by Bowens
Well I won't speak for him but he is genuine in his background and is entitled to evolve on any issue he wants to. We live in a crazy political time I know you will agree.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:38 am
by Flyin Ryan
Bowens wrote:Well I won't speak for him but he is genuine in his background and is entitled to evolve on any issue he wants to. We live in a crazy political time I know you will agree.
I'm not saying he's not genuine. I'm saying the last major influx of new people into the Democratic Party challenging the status quo he thought:
Deadtigers wrote:I am enjoying watching Sanders struggle. It is clear that in states with a solid minority population, they just don't like/trust him. I said it before he bashed the Obama administration and that was a no-no to Black people and maybe other minorities. Those things matter and all those white kids out of college and children of hippy parents can't over turn that.
http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic. ... s#p5191486

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:07 am
by Deadtigers
I can be both bro. Sanders was not the man to take it forward. I can agree that someone has tore their acl but I can differ on whether surgery is necessary or not. I saw Sanders as a version of NRFL league with that mac guy.

Sanders talked a good game but he was very flawed, selfish and proven. He had some bad tactics and when he lost or struggled he cried bloody murder in a way a female candidate could never. He embraced the economic justice leg of the 3 legged stool but had nothing on social and or civil justice.

However beyond all that there is young energy and old progressives energy in the party demanding that rather than move to the middle ground left unoccupied by the move further right. I have always believed in universal healthcare, unions and investing in education. I have just been a pragmatist as to when the country was truly ready for such things.

I remember drinking with you in Chicago but you were so loaded your wife had to drive. Need to do it again.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:30 am
by Bowens
DT I remember you being passed out and shipped home in a cab one night but maybe my memory is off. :o

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:12 pm
by eldanielfire
RWC2015 wrote:I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the White House. She's the real deal.
She's to much of a democratic establishment who talks down to the masses. Like Clinton she is exactly the sort of candidate Trump can beat.She can't win over those rust belt working class. Then there is the virtual signalling, the fact she is always ranting and didn't she lie about being a minority?

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:29 pm
by Deadtigers
eldanielfire wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the White House. She's the real deal.
She's to much of a democratic establishment who talks down to the masses. Like Clinton she is exactly the sort of candidate Trump can beat.She can't win over those rust belt working class. Then there is the virtual signalling, the fact she is always ranting and didn't she lie about being a minority?
She only lied if you want to believe right wing conspiracy stuff but then again pizzagate and all of that so people will believe stuff. I actually don't think she talks down. She was a college economic professor so she does sound like a teacher but if you listen to her actual message it hits all the notes that a lot of the working class complain about. However, you could be right and it could be about the messenger and not the message.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:29 pm
by Deadtigers
Bowens wrote:DT I remember you being passed out and shipped home in a cab one night but maybe my memory is off. :o
It is not. I think that was our 4th after party bar. Sorry, I wore down, catching the last flight into town thanks to a snowstorm and all that.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:34 pm
by eldanielfire
Deadtigers wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the White House. She's the real deal.
She's to much of a democratic establishment who talks down to the masses. Like Clinton she is exactly the sort of candidate Trump can beat.She can't win over those rust belt working class. Then there is the virtual signalling, the fact she is always ranting and didn't she lie about being a minority?
She only lied if you want to believe right wing conspiracy stuff but then again pizzagate and all of that so people will believe stuff. I actually don't think she talks down. She was a college economic professor so she does sound like a teacher but if you listen to her actual message it hits all the notes that a lot of the working class complain about. However, you could be right and it could be about the messenger and not the message.

Actually reading a few left leaning stuff, she almost certainly did claim to be part native american for her law firm.

She's already very polarising and is typical echo chamber politics. She simply won't reach the people who Obama lost.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:27 pm
by Deadtigers
eldanielfire wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the White House. She's the real deal.
She's to much of a democratic establishment who talks down to the masses. Like Clinton she is exactly the sort of candidate Trump can beat.She can't win over those rust belt working class. Then there is the virtual signalling, the fact she is always ranting and didn't she lie about being a minority?
She only lied if you want to believe right wing conspiracy stuff but then again pizzagate and all of that so people will believe stuff. I actually don't think she talks down. She was a college economic professor so she does sound like a teacher but if you listen to her actual message it hits all the notes that a lot of the working class complain about. However, you could be right and it could be about the messenger and not the message.

Actually reading a few left leaning stuff, she almost certainly did claim to be part native american for her law firm.

She's already very polarising and is typical echo chamber politics. She simply won't reach the people who Obama lost.
My point is there is no proof she is not, unless she take a DNA test. The whole argument is based on her looking too white to claim being Native. If I am being a bit defensive here it is because I am Ghanaian but also part Scottish and Dutch but in the USA I have to explain myself over and over as to how I have Dutch and Scottish roots and because I don't look or sound like Djimon, people question how I am West African. So I tend to support her in this instance.

She is polarising because the left likes to divide themselves into smaller slivers of true believers and because she didnt' support Bernie in 2016 but rather Hillary, her name is mud to lots of progressives. I am a big fan of hers and if you listen to here talk about economics and policy, it is everything all these rubes that demand that a person that rep them be someone they want to drink with are saying. Her problem is she is a woman and a well educated one at that, so that is a big no-no to these people. They want a small town guy who know his way around a Chevy and drinks Bud!!

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:37 pm
by Bowens
Hillary needs to be muzzled before 2020, when she opens her mouth she helps the other side.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... ther-spin/

I hope this doesn't impact Conor Lamb. 🙈

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:30 pm
by Deadtigers
Bowens wrote:Hillary needs to be muzzled before 2020, when she opens her mouth she helps the other side.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... ther-spin/

I hope this doesn't impact Conor Lamb. 🙈
It shouldn't. I feel two minds about this. I get from the political landscape she is a divisive figure and needs to fall back so the new movement can start. At the same time, she has had to live this weird political life where people could attack her for ever action and she had to eat it. She didn't believe in Bernie's free unicorns, She was the anti-christ, she's this, she's that. Now she is not running for anything else so why can't she drop bombs and be allowed to be selfish. She is not a saint but you have to admit from the moment they entered the national stage coverage has been skewed to make her look like some Cruella Deville type character.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:28 pm
by goeagles
Deadtigers wrote:
Bowens wrote:Hillary needs to be muzzled before 2020, when she opens her mouth she helps the other side.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... ther-spin/

I hope this doesn't impact Conor Lamb. 🙈
It shouldn't. I feel two minds about this. I get from the political landscape she is a divisive figure and needs to fall back so the new movement can start. At the same time, she has had to live this weird political life where people could attack her for ever action and she had to eat it. She didn't believe in Bernie's free unicorns, She was the anti-christ, she's this, she's that. Now she is not running for anything else so why can't she drop bombs and be allowed to be selfish. She is not a saint but you have to admit from the moment they entered the national stage coverage has been skewed to make her look like some Cruella Deville type character.
Clinton looks more flawed every day. If she actually cared about anyone but herself she wouldn't be dropping those bombs as it only hurts the Democrats and further entrenches Trump in the places that the Dems need to win back.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:33 pm
by eldanielfire
Deadtigers wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren in the White House. She's the real deal.
She's to much of a democratic establishment who talks down to the masses. Like Clinton she is exactly the sort of candidate Trump can beat.She can't win over those rust belt working class. Then there is the virtual signalling, the fact she is always ranting and didn't she lie about being a minority?
She only lied if you want to believe right wing conspiracy stuff but then again pizzagate and all of that so people will believe stuff. I actually don't think she talks down. She was a college economic professor so she does sound like a teacher but if you listen to her actual message it hits all the notes that a lot of the working class complain about. However, you could be right and it could be about the messenger and not the message.

Actually reading a few left leaning stuff, she almost certainly did claim to be part native american for her law firm.

She's already very polarising and is typical echo chamber politics. She simply won't reach the people who Obama lost.
My point is there is no proof she is not, unless she take a DNA test. The whole argument is based on her looking too white to claim being Native. If I am being a bit defensive here it is because I am Ghanaian but also part Scottish and Dutch but in the USA I have to explain myself over and over as to how I have Dutch and Scottish roots and because I don't look or sound like Djimon, people question how I am West African. So I tend to support her in this instance.
Absurd. Members of her own cousins dismissed any known native american relatives or stories. The fact no one or anyone can trace likely hood of her claims, and I notice she rejects taking an DNA test.

She is polarising because the left likes to divide themselves into smaller slivers of true believers and because she didnt' support Bernie in 2016 but rather Hillary, her name is mud to lots of progressives. I am a big fan of hers and if you listen to here talk about economics and policy, it is everything all these rubes that demand that a person that rep them be someone they want to drink with are saying. Her problem is she is a woman and a well educated one at that, so that is a big no-no to these people. They want a small town guy who know his way around a Chevy and drinks Bud!!
Your comment is typical of once again being some snobby middle class liberal telling working people what you believe they are supposed to want.

Warren isn't well liked because what the left doesn't need is another rich white lefty taking down to the poor people telling how they are supposed to feel and act. It's not about having a beer. I notice even the New York Times can't take to her.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:40 pm
by eldanielfire
Deadtigers wrote:
Bowens wrote:Hillary needs to be muzzled before 2020, when she opens her mouth she helps the other side.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... ther-spin/

I hope this doesn't impact Conor Lamb. 🙈
It shouldn't. I feel two minds about this. I get from the political landscape she is a divisive figure and needs to fall back so the new movement can start. At the same time, she has had to live this weird political life where people could attack her for ever action and she had to eat it. She didn't believe in Bernie's free unicorns, She was the anti-christ, she's this, she's that. Now she is not running for anything else so why can't she drop bombs and be allowed to be selfish. She is not a saint but you have to admit from the moment they entered the national stage coverage has been skewed to make her look like some Cruella Deville type character.

What rubbish. She is a foul shitty creature and 98 out of America's top 100 papers supported her over Trump. Just read what the wikileaks stuff show her to be. Nasty, ruthless, manipulative who would just be adding to the war Machine. Stop talking rubbish. The wikileaks stuff alone show what a vile vindictive and evil women she is. Also how useless she is.

Also Bernie's free unicorns argument is a joke, this past year they have just given $160 billion more to the military machines. The USA is a country that has enemies or fear of invasion at home. But Bernie Sanders education policies would cost $65 billion and people claim he's giving away money that the country doesn't have FFS!

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:14 pm
by eldanielfire
Bowens wrote:Hillary needs to be muzzled before 2020, when she opens her mouth she helps the other side.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... ther-spin/

I hope this doesn't impact Conor Lamb. 🙈

Help the other side. Read Wikileaks reveal of Hilary's Pied Piper strategy. Basically Hilary knew the public were so aware she was vile that the only way they saw a win was to have an apparently worse opponent. She used her undue influence over the press to get them to focus entirely on Donald Trump in the Republican primaries, to make him the star and centrepiece so he appeared worse then she was. Of course it backfired spectacularly :lol: To everyones regret :uhoh:

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:22 pm
by Bowens
I'm well aware edf. See my post dated August 2015.
CNN going all in on Trump today. Saying he's emerging as the front runner and a formidable candidate. This is so clearly the media conspiring to get him the GOP nomination, for the circus that would surround his candidacy if nothing else.
http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p3501317

They created candidate Trump then couldn't control him.

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:30 pm
by eldanielfire
Bowens wrote:I'm well aware edf. See my post dated August 2015.
CNN going all in on Trump today. Saying he's emerging as the front runner and a formidable candidate. This is so clearly the media conspiring to get him the GOP nomination, for the circus that would surround his candidacy if nothing else.
http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p3501317

They created candidate Trump then couldn't control him.
:thumbup:

Re: OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic presidential nominee thread

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:34 pm
by eldanielfire
Oh and BTW sorry for not knowing your positions and knowledge, you'll notice I almost never appeared on the Trump-Hilary politics thread because i found both candidates so horrific choices it was actually depressing.