Planet Rugby Forum

surely a good time to buy

Why ?

The Sun God wrote:Why ?

no intention of it - better odds in Vegas and sometimes the drinks are free

ticketlessinseattle wrote:

The Sun God wrote:Why ?

no intention of it - better odds in Vegas and sometimes the drinks are free

People were saying that when it was $700.

ticketlessinseattle wrote:

The Sun God wrote:Why ?

no intention of it - better odds in Vegas and sometimes the drinks are free

Not being facetious, thought you might have heard something through the grapevine.

The Sun God wrote:

ticketlessinseattle wrote:

The Sun God wrote:Why ?

no intention of it - better odds in Vegas and sometimes the drinks are free

Not being facetious, thought you might have heard something through the grapevine.

nah, i was the one taking the piss - was reading an article by Niall Ferguson in the Sunday Times about bitcoin investment - came to same conclusion that he did, his teenage kid had a better understanding of how it works than he did and that he'll probably kick himself for not investing....but still won't be jumping on the tulip bandwagon

CrazyIslander wrote:

ticketlessinseattle wrote:

The Sun God wrote:Why ?

no intention of it - better odds in Vegas and sometimes the drinks are free

People were saying that when it was $700.

mate of mine told me to back a horse at the Leopardstown races over christmas that was a cert at 5/1.....he was right....then again he's told me the same thing a couple of times each year, this was his first "good tip".

No idea whether Bitcoin itself is a tulip or not but it will probably come crashing down on the back of the fall of crypto as a concept.
When everyone has their own crypto-currency how much can you value anyone's at. The answer is obviously the same price as a handful of earth. While Bitcoin has a limited number that can be mined, (and there may always be a demand for hidden money), there is no restriction on the number of new cryptos that can be created.
Can anyone today name all the crypto currencies that exist ?
While there is some small marginal value in yet another new currency more will keep on being created.
Going forward, this means everyone in the world could own one or more. There will come a point where no further new ones are recognised as having value. At that point what value will there be in the older ones ?

All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Currencies can go up as well as down.
It is possible for that $700bn to actually be a reflection that your $ is not worth as much as it was a month ago.

Leinster in London wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Currencies can go up as well as down.
It is possible for that $700bn to actually be a reflection that your $ is not worth as much as it was a month ago.

440 - 708 is about the actual bid offer spread.

Leinster in London wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Currencies can go up as well as down.
It is possible for that $700bn to actually be a reflection that your $ is not worth as much as it was a month ago.

No doubt.

bimboman wrote:

Leinster in London wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Currencies can go up as well as down.
It is possible for that $700bn to actually be a reflection that your $ is not worth as much as it was a month ago.

440 - 708 is about the actual bid offer spread.

You keep saying that. Every time I look at GDAX, the bid-ask spread is a penny.

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Define worth though. Where is the liquidity in this market. Bitcoin shit itself yesterday because of S.Koreas trading ban. What happens when/if the US follows suit.
There are over 1100 crypto currencies issued at this stage. How do we value these without picking a number from thin air.
I have traded through bubbles from the Hunt Brothers early raids into the soya market and subsequently into silver of the early 80's and everything in between but I could at least understand the fundamentals of those markets, skewed as they were but I have no idea about how blockchain can maintain any underlying integrity as an alternate form of wealth.

The Sun God wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Define worth though. Where is the liquidity in this market. Bitcoin shit itself yesterday because of S.Koreas trading ban. What happens when/if the US follows suit.
There are over 1100 crypto currencies issued at this stage. How do we value these without picking a number from thin air.
I have traded through bubbles from the Hunt Brothers early raids into the soya market and subsequently into silver of the early 80's and everything in between but I could at least understand the fundamentals of those markets, skewed as they were but I have no idea about how blockchain can maintain any underlying integrity as an alternate form of wealth.

Big stones were used recently by an island economy. I have nodoubt they dumped them when they realised there are too many big stones in the rest of the world. Even today some rocks from the earth are treated as valuable. If there were as many diamonds as there are grains of sand, then they would be practically worthless.
As there is no theoretical limit to the numbers of crypto currencies that could exist, then theoretically it is possible to create more currencies than the are grains of sand. Bitcoin may have a place today, but what intrinsically is going to make it hold it's value against all other potential competitors.
In the future sand will be more valuable, and in the meantime it is great to lie upon.

The Sun God wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Define worth though. Where is the liquidity in this market. Bitcoin shit itself yesterday because of S.Koreas trading ban. What happens when/if the US follows suit.
There are over 1100 crypto currencies issued at this stage. How do we value these without picking a number from thin air.
I have traded through bubbles from the Hunt Brothers early raids into the soya market and subsequently into silver of the early 80's and everything in between but I could at least understand the fundamentals of those markets, skewed as they were but I have no idea about how blockchain can maintain any underlying integrity as an alternate form of wealth.

You're right that market cap is not the true value if everyone holding chose to sell at once, but of course that's true to some degree (depending on liquidity of course) in any market. But market cap at least does compare like for like when comparing across dates. I think it would be reasonable to say the value of the crypto market has increased by ~60% in the last month.

Anyway, I said this on the other thread but the book on cryptos by Chris Burniske and Jack Tatar provides a good framework for fundamental analysis of cryptoassets, in addition to its other excellent explanation of the asset class.

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Ponzi gonna ponzi.

Hellraiser wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Ponzi gonna ponzi.

Never thought of you as being stupid. Whatever Bitcoin is, it doesn't fit any definition of a ponzi scheme.

sorCrer wrote:

Hellraiser wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Ponzi gonna ponzi.

Never thought of you as being stupid. Whatever Bitcoin is, it doesn't fit any definition of a ponzi scheme.

The creator of these has allegedly mined over one million. (out of a grand total of 21m)

Proof that there are no winners.

goeagles wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Leinster in London wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Currencies can go up as well as down.
It is possible for that $700bn to actually be a reflection that your $ is not worth as much as it was a month ago.

440 - 708 is about the actual bid offer spread.

You keep saying that. Every time I look at GDAX, the bid-ask spread is a penny.

In f uck all Size.

Hellraiser wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Ponzi gonna ponzi.

It's simple, put money in, get more money out.
It's just money making money.

Also, according to some, it's saving democracy.

ticketlessinseattle wrote:

The Sun God wrote:Why ?

no intention of it - better odds in Vegas and sometimes the drinks are free

The Vegas hype was exactly that for me. It started with the US$11 G&T I bought mrs jdogscoop and only got more expensive.

Floppykid wrote:

Hellraiser wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Ponzi gonna ponzi.

It's simple, put money in, get more money out.
It's just money making money.

Also, according to some, it's saving democracy.

Except of course it doesn't work like that at all. In fact, if you'd put money in 3 weeks ago, you'd be down as much as 30% now. Also, a ponzi scheme needs to constantly fed by new investors at the bottom while older investors take multiplied profits at the top. Neither is happening.

sorCrer wrote:

Floppykid wrote:

Hellraiser wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Ponzi gonna ponzi.

It's simple, put money in, get more money out.
It's just money making money.

Also, according to some, it's saving democracy.

Except of course it doesn't work like that at all. In fact, if you'd put money in 3 weeks ago, you'd be down as much as 30% now. Also, a ponzi scheme needs to constantly fed by new investors at the bottom while older investors take multiplied profits at the top. Neither is happening.

There's been millions fm new investors over the last 6 months. And lots of profit taking.

bimboman wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

Floppykid wrote:

Hellraiser wrote:

goeagles wrote:All that means is that Bitcoin dominance of the crypto market has receded. The entire crypto market was worth $441.9 billion a month ago. Today it stands at $708.5 billion.

Ponzi gonna ponzi.

It's simple, put money in, get more money out.
It's just money making money.

Also, according to some, it's saving democracy.

Except of course it doesn't work like that at all. In fact, if you'd put money in 3 weeks ago, you'd be down as much as 30% now. Also, a ponzi scheme needs to constantly fed by new investors at the bottom while older investors take multiplied profits at the top. Neither is happening.

There's been millions fm new investors over the last 6 months. And lots of profit taking.

Adopters. The point is that it isn't a ponzi scheme anymore than the stock market is.

Don't be silly , it's been more than adequately explained the difference between stock markets and bit coin.

bimboman wrote:Don't be silly , it's been more than adequately explained the difference between stock markets and bit coin.

Are you claiming Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies are a ponzi scheme?

sorCrer wrote:

bimboman wrote:Don't be silly , it's been more than adequately explained the difference between stock markets and bit coin.

Are you claiming Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies are a ponzi scheme?

Not in the traditional sense.

The Sun God wrote:I have traded through bubbles from the Hunt Brothers early raids into the soya market and subsequently into silver of the early 80's and everything in between but I could at least understand the fundamentals of those markets, skewed as they were but I have no idea about how blockchain can maintain any underlying integrity as an alternate form of wealth.

Pffft! Come back to us when you get a decent crop report and throw everything into frozen concentrated orange juice.

Leinsterman wrote:

The Sun God wrote:I have traded through bubbles from the Hunt Brothers early raids into the soya market and subsequently into silver of the early 80's and everything in between but I could at least understand the fundamentals of those markets, skewed as they were but I have no idea about how blockchain can maintain any underlying integrity as an alternate form of wealth.

Pffft! Come back to us when you get a decent crop report and throw everything into frozen concentrated orange juice.

Hey, we’re losing all our damn money, and Christmas is around the corner, and I ain’t gonna have no money to buy my son the G.I. Joe with the kung-fu grip! And my wife ain’t gonna f… my wife ain’t gonna make love to me if I got no money!

sorCrer wrote:

Hey, we’re losing all our damn money, and Christmas is around the corner, and I ain’t gonna have no money to buy my son the G.I. Joe with the kung-fu grip! And my wife ain’t gonna f… my wife ain’t gonna make love to me if I got no money!

I was absolutely disgusted that film wasn't on TV over Christmas.

Leinsterman wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

Hey, we’re losing all our damn money, and Christmas is around the corner, and I ain’t gonna have no money to buy my son the G.I. Joe with the kung-fu grip! And my wife ain’t gonna f… my wife ain’t gonna make love to me if I got no money!

I was absolutely disgusted that film wasn't on TV over Christmas.

IT was free on sky movies and Amazon prime.

I watched it on both because JLC knockers in HD are life afirming.

bimboman wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

bimboman wrote:Don't be silly , it's been more than adequately explained the difference between stock markets and bit coin.

Are you claiming Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies are a ponzi scheme?

Not in the traditional sense.

Is a coconut a rugby ball? Not in the traditional sense.

goeagles wrote:

bimboman wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

bimboman wrote:Don't be silly , it's been more than adequately explained the difference between stock markets and bit coin.

Are you claiming Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies are a ponzi scheme?

Not in the traditional sense.

Is a coconut a rugby ball? Not in the traditional sense.

Is that new trading lingo ?

bimboman wrote:

goeagles wrote:

bimboman wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

bimboman wrote:Don't be silly , it's been more than adequately explained the difference between stock markets and bit coin.

Are you claiming Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies are a ponzi scheme?

Not in the traditional sense.

Is a coconut a rugby ball? Not in the traditional sense.

Is that new trading lingo ?

Hoping to have a drink with you one day Bims

You'll be buying, I'm a no coiner.

We're all long-term Bitcoin speculators now

They seem to have assigned a value of about €8,700 per bitcoin

lilyw wrote:We're all long-term Bitcoin speculators now

They seem to have assigned a value of about €8,700 per bitcoin

A price or a value

The advantage Bitcoin has is it's plumbed into cryptos in a similar way as the USD is to oil & gas. Most trading pairs feature BTC as one currency so you need to buy and have it if you want to trade crypto. Most exchanges perform the BTC conversion even if you don't see it. Atomic swaps could erode that but it's easier for a developer to code a BTC exchange than n exchanges for a continuously changing set of pairs.

I was pitched a crypto investment product recently that would have seemingly invested my BTC into online advertising and I would have received something like 1.5% ROI per day. Mypassivetrades.com I think it was. Came across as a bit of a multilevel marketing thing mixed with an actively managed fund.

Basically I’d no f**king idea about it or crypto in general so declined.

But I was fascinated by crypto and wanted to understand more so took a Udemy course on it and am reading a beginners book on it. I get blockchain, I get why this technology is useful and could someday compete on a similar level with legal tender, but I really struggle with why there are so many alt coins and why their prices fluctuate, given that there is seemingly no intrinsic value. What do these alt coins possess that could possibly knock BTC or Ether off their perches?