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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:08 am 
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DraadkarD wrote:
assfly wrote:
It's frightening that people use the argument "there is also other crime" to ignore the attacks on farmers.


I have to agree 100%. However, the issue that many people have is on how we categories something. Farm murders are brutal and many cases there is clear indication of hatred. But, are they linked? Are there death squads that are well organised to attack and murder on command from Zuma or Juluis? Are all black South Africans in on it? Is it so well organised that they can infiltrate farm worker communities, and make sure that if caught not to spill the beans?

If this is true, then I am glad that there are people making documentaries and exposing these atrocities. But what if there is no death squads? No links? Do you think its fair to paint South Africa as a place where white people are just murdered on street because of their race/apartheid? That all black South Africans hate us? That is not the experience I have here. But that just me. Maybe there is something I don't know about, that Steve and Afriforum knows. I just think in this day and age it's easy to play on peoples emotions, to a degree where it will lead to permanent polarization in Society.


This is a good post :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:13 am 
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assfly wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I think you miss the point.

Nobody is ignoring the attacks on white farmers.

However, if one focuses solely on the white farmer murders without considering the general state of crime in the country, then surely the context is lost?


When I was in CT last year I followed the conversation last year and that's exactly what I found, that very little was being done to help the farmers with the more extreme commentators saying that why should the police waste time protecting a privileged white minority?

SAPS are totally incapable of controlling crime in South Africa, and they would rather ensure that their inability is spread evenly across the country rather than appear to show any sort of attempt to help white farmers - which could be interpreted as taking a resource away from tackling township crime, for example.

Part of the problem is the brutality of the attacks which separates this from your "typical" crime in South Africa. These attacks are not motivated by someone trying to feed their family, I believe there is something far more sinister at play.

Precisely my point.

By attempting to politicise the farm attacks there is a danger that the attackers are offered political justification for their attacks which ramps up the savagery. If you provide them with an identity as members of a sort of vigilante group righting the wrongs of apartheid, then they will obviously identify with that and it provides them with the motivation.

The farm attacks are quite likely soft targets in isolated areas, often elderly couples with little security and no access to any policing and that's how they should be viewed. Moreover, concentrating on attacks on white farmers to the exclusion of other crime risks alienating the blacks who are also victims of crime and motivating others to participate in the attacks.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:14 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
I recall reading a book by Paul Johnson a few years ago in which he said that South Africa would continue to be of extremely high importance because its racial composition was a microcosm of the world at large, so would be a bellwether of the future.

I suspect the 21st century will be characterised by many conversations between people of European origin that will run something like this:

"They're out to get us you know."
"No they're not. It's all in your imagination."
"Hmm."

Those conversations, and they will be many as I said, will not typically be as polite as that. I'm not sure how the conversations will be resolved, but as Andy Grove titled his memoir, "only the paranoid survive."


Maybe you can build your bunker and seal yourself in.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:18 am 
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Of the many farm murders in my town's district, one gang has been apprehended soonish.
The accused were mostly expat Zimbabweans and Mozambicans, most here illegally, seemingly loosely organised in a gang (or gangs). Most were unemployed and seemingly full time criminals.
The leader (a 40+ year old Zimbabwean) was positively linked to other murders, housebreaks and the like,in other parts of the country, also associated with violent crime and crime wrt firearms. He was out on parole whilst allegedly committing several of these crimes...

Due to outstanding court cases and "safety" for the alleged criminals, the court case for the local crime was not yet concluded (in more than two years). Uncertainty reigns over the whereabouts of the alleged criminals, who are supposed to be in custody ..

What I say is that it seems as if the legal system and police are definitely failing the victims.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:19 am 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
You cnuts can't even see that you actually agree about how violent SA is for all its citizens. Yet you keep on abusing each other on here.

No wonder there is no hope for solving the problem. Shameful.

Please point out where I abused anyone on this thread.


You do all day long. Ditto WT & Nipper.

There's also a reason: you lot spend all day reading about Trump and posting on that toxic thread. x(

There is indeed: I'm interested in what Trump is doing and I find that thread a useful resource.

I do try not to be abusive and prefer to use gentle put downs rather than distribute abuse. If you look at that thread, you'll find plenty where I am abused but you won't find many in which I abuse anyone else. WT excepted, of course, but you have to agree that there is a fair degree of justification for that.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:21 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Of the many farm murders in my town's district, one gang has been apprehended soonish.
The accused were mostly expat Zimbabweans and Mozambicans, most here illegally, seemingly loosely organised in a gang (or gangs). Most were unemployed and seemingly full time criminals.
The leader (a 40+ year old Zimbabwean) was positively linked to other murders, housebreaks and the like,in other parts of the country, also associated with violent crime and crime wrt firearms. He was out on parole whilst allegedly committing several of these crimes...

Due to outstanding court cases and "safety" for the alleged criminals, the court case for the local crime was not yet concluded (in more than two years). Uncertainty reigns over the whereabouts of the alleged criminals, who are supposed to be in custody ..

What I say is that it seems as if the legal system and police are definitely failing the victims.

A rare informative post.

Which bears out my contention that the attacks are more opportunistic than a concerted political or racial campaign.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:25 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Of the many farm murders in my town's district, one gang has been apprehended soonish.
The accused were mostly expat Zimbabweans and Mozambicans, most here illegally, seemingly loosely organised in a gang (or gangs). Most were unemployed and seemingly full time criminals.
The leader (a 40+ year old Zimbabwean) was positively linked to other murders, housebreaks and the like,in other parts of the country, also associated with violent crime and crime wrt firearms. He was out on parole whilst allegedly committing several of these crimes...

Due to outstanding court cases and "safety" for the alleged criminals, the court case for the local crime was not yet concluded (in more than two years). Uncertainty reigns over the whereabouts of the alleged criminals, who are supposed to be in custody ..

What I say is that it seems as if the legal system and police are definitely failing the victims.

A rare informative post.

Which bears out my contention that the attacks are more opportunistic than a concerted political or racial campaign.



Which nobody on here claims ...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:28 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I recall reading a book by Paul Johnson a few years ago in which he said that South Africa would continue to be of extremely high importance because its racial composition was a microcosm of the world at large, so would be a bellwether of the future.

I suspect the 21st century will be characterised by many conversations between people of European origin that will run something like this:

"They're out to get us you know."
"No they're not. It's all in your imagination."
"Hmm."

Those conversations, and they will be many as I said, will not typically be as polite as that. I'm not sure how the conversations will be resolved, but as Andy Grove titled his memoir, "only the paranoid survive."


Maybe you can build your bunker and seal yourself in.


Yes Cathy.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:38 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I recall reading a book by Paul Johnson a few years ago in which he said that South Africa would continue to be of extremely high importance because its racial composition was a microcosm of the world at large, so would be a bellwether of the future.

I suspect the 21st century will be characterised by many conversations between people of European origin that will run something like this:

"They're out to get us you know."
"No they're not. It's all in your imagination."
"Hmm."

Those conversations, and they will be many as I said, will not typically be as polite as that. I'm not sure how the conversations will be resolved, but as Andy Grove titled his memoir, "only the paranoid survive."


Maybe you can build your bunker and seal yourself in.


Yes Cathy.


You can't keep predicting civil wars, racial wars and the likes without people thinking you'll soon be building a shelter.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:43 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I recall reading a book by Paul Johnson a few years ago in which he said that South Africa would continue to be of extremely high importance because its racial composition was a microcosm of the world at large, so would be a bellwether of the future.

I suspect the 21st century will be characterised by many conversations between people of European origin that will run something like this:

"They're out to get us you know."
"No they're not. It's all in your imagination."
"Hmm."

Those conversations, and they will be many as I said, will not typically be as polite as that. I'm not sure how the conversations will be resolved, but as Andy Grove titled his memoir, "only the paranoid survive."


Maybe you can build your bunker and seal yourself in.


Yes Cathy.


You can't keep predicting civil wars, racial wars and the likes without people thinking you'll soon be building a shelter.


You've had your arse kicked from one end of the forum to the other over the past couple of days. Good to see you're still coming out swinging.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:47 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:

You've had your arse kicked from one end of the forum to the other over the past couple of days. Good to see you're still coming out swinging.

More fantasy stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:50 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:

You've had your arse kicked from one end of the forum to the other over the past couple of days. Good to see you're still coming out swinging.

More fantasy stuff.


Listen mate, I'm not sure if I've seen anyone make such a massive tit of themselves around here for some time as you did on the Trudeau thread. It was painful to watch.

You don't read people's posts: you just make shit up.

You've improved massively of late as the 'making shit up' part is now not typically accompanied with some random abuse, so that's progress. Now we just need to work on the making shit up part.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:55 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:

You've had your arse kicked from one end of the forum to the other over the past couple of days. Good to see you're still coming out swinging.

More fantasy stuff.


Listen mate, I'm not sure if I've seen anyone make such a massive tit of themselves around here for some time as you did on the Trudeau thread. It was painful to watch.

You don't read people's posts: you just make shit up.

You've improved massively of late as the 'making shit up' part is now not typically accompanied with some random abuse, so that's progress. Now we just need to work on the making shit up part.


It seems "the left" aren't the only ones making things up.

Now are you going to talk on topic, with what was an interesting conversation? Funnily how you've ignored most of it and banged the drum for something else.


Last edited by Bullettyme on Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
10:19 am - I do try not to be abusive


Rinkals wrote:

10:21 am - A rare informative post


;)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
10:19 am - I do try not to be abusive


Rinkals wrote:

10:21 am - A rare informative post


;)

It was so gentle that WT didn't even notice it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
10:19 am - I do try not to be abusive


Rinkals wrote:

10:21 am - A rare informative post


;)

It was so gentle that WT didn't even notice it.



Your dick is so small, nobody will notice it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Quote:
Are there death squads that are well organised to attack and murder

TAU have video of farm attackers using a military issue cellphone jamming device backpack (they collect video from members), everyone in the video looks professional. It's clear enough a component of this are well organised people that aren't interested in theft.

It's funny watching how people negotiate that fact. I mean Wilson's just explained how Zim criminals often ex-police or ex-military, are involved in this and other crime. Rinkals declared this as proof it's all "opportunistic", and of course Wilson's had to agree. It would probably be hate speech if he didn't agree. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Big Nipper wrote:
It is almost like there are no murders taking place in the slums in the major cities, almost like no one really wants to address the gang violence in Cape Town, you know, coz there aint no whitey involved.

#jussayin




Some irony here.

When discussing brutality and killings of black people by cops (#BlackLivesMatter), a counter-argument is that there are more murders of black people committed by people who aren't cops (#AllLivesMatter); those who point this out are immediately classified as Alt-Right, or racists.


Did BN just out himself as being alt-right?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:10 pm 
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ox wagon wrote:
Quote:
Are there death squads that are well organised to attack and murder

TAU have video of farm attackers using a military issue cellphone jamming device backpack (they collect video from members), everyone in the video looks professional. It's clear enough a component of this are well organised people that aren't interested in theft.

It's funny watching how people negotiate that fact. I mean Wilson's just explained how Zim criminals often ex-police or ex-military, are involved in this and other crime. Rinkals declared this as proof it's all "opportunistic", and of course Wilson's had to agree. It would probably be hate speech if he didn't agree. :lol:



I did not agree as to the opportunistic matter of this (even if Rinkals wanted me too) I've just explained an organised gang (not ascribing any political motive there, though)

Not that that would stop Rinkals from reading what he wants to read in it ..


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:25 pm 
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The whole problem is that there's too many assumptions, which are then later cited as facts.

Assumption: the farm murders are not politically motivated.

How do we know it isn't? Or is?

One can only speculate from one's own perspective, and evidence you've seen.

But for something like this, I'd rather take the word of a farmer who sees farm murders on a daily basis. There's a bigger chance that he/she/ze has more concrete evidence, than say somebody who has never set foot on a farm (no, a family day at a petting farm doesn't count).

It's the same as something like the residents of say Diepkloof protesting against gang murders. I've done some business in Diepkloof, but can't really argue their point for them as I have absolutely no idea what their every day life is like.


I will say this, and I have said so many times: I do believe a disproportionate number of crime is committed by illegal immigrants.

I also have a feeling that many who show up at EFF and especially BLF protests aren't Saffas. If you compare the numbers at an EFF gathering to the actual percentage of votes they get, it doesn't seem proportionate.


We need to build a wall. And make Zimbabwe pay for it :nod:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:36 pm 
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:lol:


Malema was (reportedly) heavily sponsored by a younger colleague of Bobs Mugabe. Don't know if that changed, now.

Do we have an Imperialist plot to kill off the white farmers ? https://blackopinion.co.za/2016/04/13/w ... om-london/


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:47 pm 
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ox wagon wrote:
Quote:
Are there death squads that are well organised to attack and murder

TAU have video of farm attackers using a military issue cellphone jamming device backpack (they collect video from members), everyone in the video looks professional. It's clear enough a component of this are well organised people that aren't interested in theft.



Link please?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:06 pm 
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DraadkarD wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
Quote:
Are there death squads that are well organised to attack and murder

TAU have video of farm attackers using a military issue cellphone jamming device backpack (they collect video from members), everyone in the video looks professional. It's clear enough a component of this are well organised people that aren't interested in theft.



Link please?

It was from years ago, can only find this image of the team of "opportunists" now.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Well organised people can be very interested in theft. Look at the military nature of carjacking and some home invasions.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Well organised people can be very interested in theft. Look at the military nature of carjacking and some home invasions.

If an entire family is killed execution style, and the farmer's bakkie stolen and dumped a few kms away (where the attackers car is, which they then drive off in).

Then that is indeed counted in the stats as theft.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:26 pm 
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ox wagon wrote:
DraadkarD wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
Quote:
Are there death squads that are well organised to attack and murder

TAU have video of farm attackers using a military issue cellphone jamming device backpack (they collect video from members), everyone in the video looks professional. It's clear enough a component of this are well organised people that aren't interested in theft.



Link please?

It was from years ago, can only find this image of the team of "opportunists" now.

Image


That is a photo. Can you please send me the Tau link? I have been searching, but cant find it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
Quote:
Are there death squads that are well organised to attack and murder

TAU have video of farm attackers using a military issue cellphone jamming device backpack (they collect video from members), everyone in the video looks professional. It's clear enough a component of this are well organised people that aren't interested in theft.

It's funny watching how people negotiate that fact. I mean Wilson's just explained how Zim criminals often ex-police or ex-military, are involved in this and other crime. Rinkals declared this as proof it's all "opportunistic", and of course Wilson's had to agree. It would probably be hate speech if he didn't agree. :lol:



I did not agree as to the opportunistic matter of this (even if Rinkals wanted me too) I've just explained an organised gang (not ascribing any political motive there, though)

Not that that would stop Rinkals from reading what he wants to read in it ..



Mate. All of a sudden on this thread, you’ve made a shitload of sense. Reason and understanding. Why are you so different on other topics?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:47 pm 
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rett wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
ox wagon wrote:
Quote:
Are there death squads that are well organised to attack and murder

TAU have video of farm attackers using a military issue cellphone jamming device backpack (they collect video from members), everyone in the video looks professional. It's clear enough a component of this are well organised people that aren't interested in theft.

It's funny watching how people negotiate that fact. I mean Wilson's just explained how Zim criminals often ex-police or ex-military, are involved in this and other crime. Rinkals declared this as proof it's all "opportunistic", and of course Wilson's had to agree. It would probably be hate speech if he didn't agree. :lol:



I did not agree as to the opportunistic matter of this (even if Rinkals wanted me too) I've just explained an organised gang (not ascribing any political motive there, though)

Not that that would stop Rinkals from reading what he wants to read in it ..



Mate. All of a sudden on this thread, you’ve made a shitload of sense. Reason and understanding. Why are you so different on other topics?



This is serious. The rest is a pisstake.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:47 pm 
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DraadkarD wrote:
That is a photo. Can you please send me the Tau link? I have been searching, but cant find it.

It's from 2015, do you know how the internet works? It's all I could find 3 years later. If you want more I suggest you email TAU.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:00 pm 
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I dated a South African girl and she said she thinks most of the country is dealing with some level of PTSD given pretty much everyone has a horror story to tell about them or someone close to them being a victim of very violent crime.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
I dated a South African girl and she said she thinks most of the country is dealing with some level of PTSD given pretty much everyone has a horror story to tell about them or someone close to them being a victim of very violent crime.



We've had 17 attacks during February, this morning, that averages out on two per day. Nothing "post" in the stress thingy, it is very very relevant and actual.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
10:19 am - I do try not to be abusive


Rinkals wrote:

10:21 am - A rare informative post


;)

It was so gentle that WT didn't even notice it.



Your dick is so small, nobody will notice it.


Oh dear.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:46 pm 
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In my opinion there is a genocide going on in South Africa and the whole world is content to sit back and let it unfold because it is white South Africans who are being killed.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
You cnuts can't even see that you actually agree about how violent SA is for all its citizens. Yet you keep on abusing each other on here.

No wonder there is no hope for solving the problem. Shameful.


Okes, this fokker needs a poesklap. :x


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:11 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
You cnuts can't even see that you actually agree about how violent SA is for all its citizens. Yet you keep on abusing each other on here.

No wonder there is no hope for solving the problem. Shameful.


Okes, this fokker needs a poesklap. :x


So much violence :((


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:22 am 
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sorCrer wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
You cnuts can't even see that you actually agree about how violent SA is for all its citizens. Yet you keep on abusing each other on here.

No wonder there is no hope for solving the problem. Shameful.


Okes, this fokker needs a poesklap. :x


He is a bit of a tentpen. Wil net ingeslaan word.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:33 am 
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100MileDad wrote:
In my opinion there is a genocide going on in South Africa and the whole world is content to sit back and let it unfold because it is white South Africans who are being killed.

Jesus, who's shit multi is this then?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:44 am 
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Big Nipper wrote:
100MileDad wrote:
In my opinion there is a genocide going on in South Africa and the whole world is content to sit back and let it unfold because it is white South Africans who are being killed.

Jesus, who's shit multi is this then?


Nipper glad to hear you were not taken by the genocidal hoards last night, seeing that you live on the "gat kant" of Bloemfontein.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:48 am 
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Seriously, does anyone actually believe that the SA government is deliberately pursuing a policy of ethnic cleansing to force the white farmers off their land?

https://mobile.twitter.com/KTHopkins/st ... 3809750017


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:54 am 
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What amuses me is that there is so much talk about how good the SADF was in the " good old days " and yet the farmers cannot even organise an intelligence unit to get to the bottom of this and establish whether there is a concerted effort to chase farmers off the land and out the country.....I suppose that a large part of the problem is that suspects caught are handed over to the authorities and we know exactly how fokken useless they are.


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