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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Who are the pro era players who represented your country with distinction but who never lifted the trophy in your premier domestic comp?

For NZ, the following never played in a Super Rugby-winning season for their franchise:

15 Christian Cullen
14 Jeff Wilson
13 Conrad Smith
12 Ma’a Nonu
11 Sitiveni Sivivatu
10 Tony Brown
9 Byron Kelleher
8 Rodney So’oialo
7 Josh Kronfeld
6 Jerome Kaino
5 Ian Jones
4 Simon Maling
3 Carl Hayman
2 Andrew Hore
1 Bull Allen

16 Anton Oliver
17 Kees Meeuws
18 Jason Eaton
19 Jerry Collins
20 Piri Weepu
21 Nick Evans
22 Tana Umaga

First impression - wow, look at all the Hurricanes and Highlanders!

Second impression - toughest calls were the locks. The greats (Thorn, Williams, Retallick, Whitelock) were all champs sooner or later. Which raises the obvious question - are locks smarter than they're given credit for in picking winning franchises, or is the foundation of a successful Super Rugby dynasty based on its engine room?


Last edited by Lacrobat on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Were the Otago lads playing when it was Super Rugby?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:58 pm 
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1. Ulster
2. Ulster
3. Ulster
4. Ulster
5. Ulster
6. Ulster
7. Ulster
8. Ulster
9. Ulster
10. Ulster
11. Ulster
12. Ulster
13. Ulster
14. Ulster
15. Ulster


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:11 pm 
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Ian Jones for one of the lock spots, surely?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:18 pm 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Ian Jones for one of the lock spots, surely?


Thought that, then thought he was too rooted in the amateur era, but you're right, three seasons with the Chiefs should qualify him.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:20 pm 
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Lacrobat wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Ian Jones for one of the lock spots, surely?


Thought that, then thought he was too rooted in the amateur era, but you're right, three seasons with the Chiefs should qualify him.


Yeah, he was there in that brief period when NH were part of the Chiefs so he missed out on the Blues two titles.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:23 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
1. Ulster
2. Ulster
3. Ulster
4. Ulster
5. Ulster
6. Ulster
7. Ulster
8. Ulster
9. Ulster
10. Ulster
11. Ulster
12. Ulster
13. Ulster
14. Ulster
15. Ulster

:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:35 pm 
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Point of clarity - SupeRugby is not NZ's premier domestic comp.

Otherwise there are a few saders that never won under the dark days of Blackadder...

KG


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Mark Cooksley over Simon Maling


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:48 pm 
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feckwanker wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
1. Ulster
2. Ulster
3. Ulster
4. Ulster
5. Ulster
6. Ulster
7. Ulster
8. Ulster
9. Ulster
10. Ulster
11. Ulster
12. Ulster
13. Ulster
14. Ulster
15. Ulster

:lol:

Have Ulster had that many caps in the pro era ?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:51 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
feckwanker wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
1. Ulster
2. Ulster
3. Ulster
4. Ulster
5. Ulster
6. Ulster
7. Ulster
8. Ulster
9. Ulster
10. Ulster
11. Ulster
12. Ulster
13. Ulster
14. Ulster
15. Ulster

:lol:

Have Ulster had that many caps in the pro era ?


Court
Best
Best
Hendo
Caldwell
Ferris
Henry
Wilson
Marshall
Jackson
Trimble
McCloskey
Cave
Bowe
Olding

That was fairly easy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:53 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
feckwanker wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
1. Ulster
2. Ulster
3. Ulster
4. Ulster
5. Ulster
6. Ulster
7. Ulster
8. Ulster
9. Ulster
10. Ulster
11. Ulster
12. Ulster
13. Ulster
14. Ulster
15. Ulster

:lol:

Have Ulster had that many caps in the pro era ?


Court
Best
Best
Hendo
Caldwell
Ferris
Henry
Wilson
Marshall
Jackson
Trimble
McCloskey
Cave
Bowe
Olding

That was fairly easy.

Explains a lot ! :P


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
feckwanker wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
1. Ulster
2. Ulster
3. Ulster
4. Ulster
5. Ulster
6. Ulster
7. Ulster
8. Ulster
9. Ulster
10. Ulster
11. Ulster
12. Ulster
13. Ulster
14. Ulster
15. Ulster

:lol:

Have Ulster had that many caps in the pro era ?


Court
Best
Best
Hendo
Caldwell
Ferris
Henry
Wilson
Marshall
Jackson
Trimble
McCloskey
Cave
Bowe
Olding

That was fairly easy.

Explains a lot ! :P


Also when you consider that players like Tyrone Howe, Gary Longwell, Robbie Diack, Paul Shields, Ian Whitten have also been capped...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:06 am 
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Howe has a couple league wins from his time at the Sprays, tbf.

Also, Longwell was on the HEC winning team, so doesn’t belong in this thread.

You could put Pienaar in instead of Wee Paul, mind.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:06 am 
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15 Matthew Burke
14 Ben Tune
13 Jason Little
12 Tim Horan
11 David Campese
10 Elton Flatley
9 Chris Whitaker
8 Toutai Kefu
7 David Wilson
6 Matt Cockbain
5 John Eales
4 Adam Coleman
3 Andrew Blades
2 Phil Kearns
1 Richard Harry


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:17 am 
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DOB wrote:
Bowe has a couple league wins from his time at the Sprays, tbf.

Also, Longwell was on the HEC winning team, so doesn’t belong in this thread.

You could put Pienaar in instead of Wee Paul, mind.


Surely some of the older ones like the Bests were around for the CL win in 06?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:21 am 
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Tevita Kuridrani...

Every year there's talk about him losing his Wallabies spot due to his shitty Soup form, but he always delivers in gold.

Samu Kerevi is the complete opposite.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:24 am 
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DOB wrote:
Howe has a couple league wins from his time at the Sprays, tbf.

Also, Longwell was on the HEC winning team, so doesn’t belong in this thread.

You could put Pienaar in instead of Wee Paul, mind.


Best, Wilson, Ferris, Caldwell could all possibly have won the Celtic League/Cup in 2005 or whenever Ulster won that I think as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:56 am 
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Lacrobat wrote:
Who are the pro era players who represented your country with distinction but who never lifted the trophy in your premier domestic comp?

For NZ, the following never played in a Super Rugby-winning season for their franchise:



Super Rugby isn't a NZ domestic competition even though it may seem like it


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:55 am 
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Jensrsa wrote:
Lacrobat wrote:
Who are the pro era players who represented your country with distinction but who never lifted the trophy in your premier domestic comp?

For NZ, the following never played in a Super Rugby-winning season for their franchise:



Super Rugby isn't a NZ domestic competition even though it may seem like it

How many pro-era high-profile test regulars have even played more than a handful of games in the Currie or ITM Cups? The number of 50+ cap Wallabies who’ve played in the Sydney Premier for more than a half season must be vanishingly small.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:57 am 
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DOB wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Lacrobat wrote:
Who are the pro era players who represented your country with distinction but who never lifted the trophy in your premier domestic comp?

For NZ, the following never played in a Super Rugby-winning season for their franchise:



Super Rugby isn't a NZ domestic competition even though it may seem like it

How many pro-era high-profile test regulars have even played more than a handful of games in the Currie or ITM Cups? The number of 50+ cap Wallabies who’ve played in the Sydney Premier for more than a half season must be vanishingly small.



All Blacks used to play in the NPC up until the early 2000's. Since then, it's only guys like Julian Savea who are on the outer or regaining fitness.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:27 am 
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Lacrobat wrote:
Who are the pro era players who represented your country with distinction but who never lifted the trophy in your premier domestic comp?

For NZ, the following never played in a Super Rugby-winning season for their franchise:

15 Christian Cullen
14 Jeff Wilson
13 Conrad Smith
12 Ma’a Nonu
11 Sitiveni Sivivatu
10 Tony Brown
9 Byron Kelleher
8 Rodney So’oialo
7 Josh Kronfeld
6 Jerome Kaino
5 Ian Jones
4 Simon Maling
3 Carl Hayman
2 Andrew Hore
1 Bull Allen

16 Anton Oliver
17 Kees Meeuws
18 Jason Eaton
19 Jerry Collins
20 Piri Weepu
21 Nick Evans
22 Tana Umaga

First impression - wow, look at all the Hurricanes and Highlanders!

Second impression - toughest calls were the locks. The greats (Thorn, Williams, Retallick, Whitelock) were all champs sooner or later. Which raises the obvious question - are locks smarter than they're given credit for in picking winning franchises, or is the foundation of a successful Super Rugby dynasty based on its engine room?

There's no way Tana would be on the bench (it's amazing how quickly people have forgotten how good he was) in that team, you'd find a place to fit him in (I suggest moving Wilson to 15 and Cullen to ... ok, just kidding).


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:33 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Lacrobat wrote:
Who are the pro era players who represented your country with distinction but who never lifted the trophy in your premier domestic comp?

For NZ, the following never played in a Super Rugby-winning season for their franchise:

15 Christian Cullen
14 Jeff Wilson
13 Conrad Smith
12 Ma’a Nonu
11 Sitiveni Sivivatu
10 Tony Brown
9 Byron Kelleher
8 Rodney So’oialo
7 Josh Kronfeld
6 Jerome Kaino
5 Ian Jones
4 Simon Maling
3 Carl Hayman
2 Andrew Hore
1 Bull Allen

16 Anton Oliver
17 Kees Meeuws
18 Jason Eaton
19 Jerry Collins
20 Piri Weepu
21 Nick Evans
22 Tana Umaga

First impression - wow, look at all the Hurricanes and Highlanders!

Second impression - toughest calls were the locks. The greats (Thorn, Williams, Retallick, Whitelock) were all champs sooner or later. Which raises the obvious question - are locks smarter than they're given credit for in picking winning franchises, or is the foundation of a successful Super Rugby dynasty based on its engine room?

There's no way Tana would be on the bench (it's amazing how quickly people have forgotten how good he was) in that team, you'd find a place to fit him in (I suggest moving Wilson to 15 and Cullen to ... ok, just kidding).



11. Tana
12. Ma'a
13. Conrad
14. Goldie
15. Cully

Just take Tana on his wing form of 97-2000 which was gobsmacking.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:47 am 
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Quote:
Surely some of the older ones like the Bests were around for the CL win in 06?


Trimble, Bowe, Ferris, Best (probably the three of them).

Bowe was top try scorer and David Humphreys second in the points tally.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:02 am 
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Lacrobat wrote:
Who are the pro era players who represented your country with distinction but who never lifted the trophy in your premier domestic comp?

For NZ, the following never played in a Super Rugby-winning season for their franchise:

15 Christian Cullen
14 Jeff Wilson
13 Conrad Smith
12 Ma’a Nonu
11 Sitiveni Sivivatu
10 Tony Brown
9 Byron Kelleher
8 Rodney So’oialo
7 Josh Kronfeld
6 Jerome Kaino
5 Ian Jones
4 Simon Maling
3 Carl Hayman
2 Andrew Hore
1 Bull Allen

16 Anton Oliver
17 Kees Meeuws
18 Jason Eaton
19 Jerry Collins
20 Piri Weepu
21 Nick Evans
22 Tana Umaga

First impression - wow, look at all the Hurricanes and Highlanders!


I question your list... many of those players won the 1998 NPC with Otago... which is of course NZ's premier domestic competition.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:50 am 
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Similarly, Cullen, Tana, Rodney and Jerry won the 2000 NPC. And Piri Weepu won the Ranfurly Shield.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:15 am 
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Moncreif wrote:
15 Matthew Burke
14 Ben Tune
13 Jason Little
12 Tim Horan
11 David Campese
10 Elton Flatley
9 Chris Whitaker
8 Toutai Kefu
7 David Wilson
6 Matt Cockbain
5 John Eales
4 Adam Coleman
3 Andrew Blades
2 Phil Kearns
1 Richard Harry


fudge that is almost a world cup winning team!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:23 am 
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For SA you could just put the Sharks in


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:26 am 
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As a Welsh poster none of the logic being asked for on this thread does not compute


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:27 am 
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Moncreif wrote:
15 Matthew Burke
14 Ben Tune
13 Jason Little
12 Tim Horan
11 David Campese
10 Elton Flatley
9 Chris Whitaker
8 Toutai Kefu
7 David Wilson
6 Matt Cockbain
5 John Eales
4 Adam Coleman
3 Andrew Blades
2 Phil Kearns
1 Richard Harry

Qld won Super 10 in 94-95.
Eales, Little, Horan and Wilson (?) ineligible.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:29 am 
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Moncreif wrote:
15 Matthew Burke
14 Ben Tune
13 Jason Little
12 Tim Horan
11 David Campese
10 Elton Flatley
9 Chris Whitaker
8 Toutai Kefu
7 David Wilson
6 Matt Cockbain
5 John Eales
4 Adam Coleman
3 Andrew Blades
2 Phil Kearns
1 Richard Harry

Qld won Super 10 in 94-95.
Eales, Little, Horan and Wilson (?) ineligible.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:37 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Moncreif wrote:
15 Matthew Burke
14 Ben Tune
13 Jason Little
12 Tim Horan
11 David Campese
10 Elton Flatley
9 Chris Whitaker
8 Toutai Kefu
7 David Wilson
6 Matt Cockbain
5 John Eales
4 Adam Coleman
3 Andrew Blades
2 Phil Kearns
1 Richard Harry

Qld won Super 10 in 94-95.
Eales, Little, Horan and Wilson (?) ineligible.


Super 10 was a bit of a pisstake...

But if it's included, probably Sharpe, Kurindrani, Flatley and Pocock replacing the above. In fact, I'd probably replace Wilson with Poey anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:39 am 
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Zakar wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Moncreif wrote:
15 Matthew Burke
14 Ben Tune
13 Jason Little
12 Tim Horan
11 David Campese
10 Elton Flatley
9 Chris Whitaker
8 Toutai Kefu
7 David Wilson
6 Matt Cockbain
5 John Eales
4 Adam Coleman
3 Andrew Blades
2 Phil Kearns
1 Richard Harry

Qld won Super 10 in 94-95.
Eales, Little, Horan and Wilson (?) ineligible.


Super 10 was a bit of a pisstake...

But if it's included, probably Sharpe, Kurindrani, Flatley and Pocock.

:?:
Super 10 was just Super 12 with two less teams.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:51 am 
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Genuinely struggling to think of any English examples. Much easier to do it the other way round...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:02 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Genuinely struggling to think of any English examples. Much easier to do it the other way round...

Wilko in Newcastle?

Bit of a hard sell, that, considering his later success in Toulon.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:03 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Genuinely struggling to think of any English examples. Much easier to do it the other way round...

Wilko in Newcastle?

Bit of a hard sell, that, considering his later success in Toulon.


And that he won the Premiership with them


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:04 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Genuinely struggling to think of any English examples. Much easier to do it the other way round...

Wilko in Newcastle?

Bit of a hard sell, that, considering his later success in Toulon.


And that he won the Premiership with them


Did he? OK, scratch that.

Edit, in '98 as a kid. Fair enough.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:06 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Genuinely struggling to think of any English examples. Much easier to do it the other way round...


from 2003
Tindall
wilko at 10 - not counting France as domestic
Trevor woodman
Richard Hill?

also, Danny Grewcock perhaps

ah, already seen that JW won the title with Newcastle


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:19 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Genuinely struggling to think of any English examples. Much easier to do it the other way round...

Pat Sanderson.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:45 am 
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Something like...

Woodman
Thompson
Sinckler
Launchbury
Grewcock
Hill
Fourie
Hughes

Bracken
Grayson
Daly
Tindall
Joseph
Banahan
Watson

Think they've all won something with England but not the Premiership.


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