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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Not looking good for the lads. I believe that Jackson has said that he never had sex with the girl, but the witness says that she saw him having sex with her.

The whole defense appears to hang on the girl not screaming out for help and struggling at every opportunity and that's not how consent works.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:55 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I just don’t buy the ‘Bill Clinton’ type defence that Jackson didnt ride her- and I don’t think fisting is really a one night stand type of thing. Would anybody be packing enough lube incase?!

Unless he stuck his cock in her without a condom and is trying to cover for that.


Why though? Not a crime to do that consensualy.

The only reasons to lie about it that I can think of doesn't stack up well for any of them.


I had a think about this and (speculation) it could be the case that this woman saying that she asked him to put on a Jonny if they were to have vaginal Amex was true. Except it was in course of what was consensual activities.

Olding then comes in, she starts away with him and Jackson takes liberties. She doesn’t reject it but it’s a grey area.

The only thing we know is that both sides have talked about condoms and that one was not used at the very least. The woman’s story is that she asked for it in the course of a rape. They (seemingly) are saying one wasn’t there so vaginal sec didn’t happen.

The above speculation with Jackson is one of those situations where it’s arguable and you would be in trouble, so Jackson at interview denies it. But it would be a hell of a lot more believable than her story so far, which looks like one where you don’t want to upset mum and dad.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Vaginal Amex. Interesting.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:14 pm 
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Blackrock Bullet wrote:
CM11 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I just don’t buy the ‘Bill Clinton’ type defence that Jackson didnt ride her- and I don’t think fisting is really a one night stand type of thing. Would anybody be packing enough lube incase?!

Unless he stuck his cock in her without a condom and is trying to cover for that.


Why though? Not a crime to do that consensualy.

The only reasons to lie about it that I can think of doesn't stack up well for any of them.


I had a think about this and (speculation) it could be the case that this woman saying that she asked him to put on a Jonny if they were to have vaginal Amex was true. Except it was in course of what was consensual activities.

Olding then comes in, she starts away with him and Jackson takes liberties. She doesn’t reject it but it’s a grey area.

The only thing we know is that both sides have talked about condoms and that one was not used at the very least. The woman’s story is that she asked for it in the course of a rape. They (seemingly) are saying one wasn’t there so vaginal sec didn’t happen.

The above speculation with Jackson is one of those situations where it’s arguable and you would be in trouble, so Jackson at interview denies it. But it would be a hell of a lot more believable than her story so far, which looks like one where you don’t want to upset mum and dad.

Kind of my thinking re the condom.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:22 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Vaginal Amex. Interesting.


:lol: oooops


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Vaginal Amex. Interesting.

Swipe or chip and pin?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:32 pm 
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earl the beaver wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
Their lives will have been ruined regardless.

Ultimately if they're found guilty that doesn't matter as they're lives should be ruined by going to jail.

If acquitted/found not guilty it is incredibly unfair that these guys who have careers in the public eye will effectively have to give up on pursuing their career in Ireland and more than likely lose out on any chance of international rugby.


Mud sticks. Unfortunately it even sticks in cases where the accused are found not guilty.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:40 pm 
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Miguel Indurain wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
Their lives will have been ruined regardless.

Ultimately if they're found guilty that doesn't matter as they're lives should be ruined by going to jail.

If acquitted/found not guilty it is incredibly unfair that these guys who have careers in the public eye will effectively have to give up on pursuing their career in Ireland and more than likely lose out on any chance of international rugby.


Mud sticks. Unfortunately it even sticks in cases where the accused are found not guilty.

Will they never leave OJ alone?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:47 pm 
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DOB wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Vaginal Amex. Interesting.

Swipe or chip and pin?


Is that sex code for kids like the term Netflix and Chill?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:52 pm 
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Jumper wrote:
Not looking good for the lads. I believe that Jackson has said that he never had sex with the girl, but the witness says that she saw him having sex with her.

The whole defense appears to hang on the girl not screaming out for help and struggling at every opportunity and that's not how consent works.

It's looking good for Olding I would have thought?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
Jumper wrote:
Not looking good for the lads. I believe that Jackson has said that he never had sex with the girl, but the witness says that she saw him having sex with her.

The whole defense appears to hang on the girl not screaming out for help and struggling at every opportunity and that's not how consent works.

It's looking good for Olding I would have thought?

If it’s looking good for Olding, it has to look good for Jackson. She can hardly have consented to the 2nd fella while not consenting to the first.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:13 am 
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Blackrock Bullet wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Vaginal Amex. Interesting.


:lol: oooops

:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:37 am 
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Lenny wrote:
Given how feisty she was in the witness box it’s hard to imagine that she would have been so frozen with fear at the time of the alleged rape


Jesus, Lenny.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:49 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Given how feisty she was in the witness box it’s hard to imagine that she would have been so frozen with fear at the time of the alleged rape


Jesus, Lenny.


Not a good post


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:41 am 
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CM11 wrote:
What is the angle for Jackson to deny he had sex if he did?


To me that means there's no DNA evidence that he had sex (penetration) with her. But I assume that's already known through disclosure? I can see why the defence would go that way. If he also denies it, prosecution has to proof not only rape but sex too. More opportunity for defence to expose the reliability of evidence against them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:20 am 
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Will the jury be as desperate to believe the blokes as you guys are


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:05 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Will the jury be as desperate to believe the blokes as you guys are

Seek help, weirdo.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:22 am 
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Those whatsapp pictures going around were of the bird who walked in on them, not the alleged victim.

God bless her poor parents.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:44 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Will the jury be as desperate to believe the blokes as you guys are


Give yourself an uppercut


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:47 am 
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Gavin Duffy wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Will the jury be as desperate to believe the blokes as you guys are

Seek help, weirdo.

Exactly, I have four sisters myself and that kind of remark is annoying.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:01 am 
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lorcanoworms wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Will the jury be as desperate to believe the blokes as you guys are

Seek help, weirdo.

Exactly, I have four sisters myself and that kind of remark is annoying.

Are you saying having sisters makes you more likely to believe the complainant. If so make sure you divulge that before sitting on a jury in such a case. If not it's a pointless bit of information.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:10 am 
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They're professional sportsmen in a sport which on the whole is pretty attractive to women. Why would they rape a woman when they could probably spend 20 seconds on tinder and find a willing one?

That's what doesn't make sense to me.

The Ched Evans case was a mess from start to finish. I'm pretty sure he's innocent, and he's had his name cleared anyway. A promising career ruined.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:13 am 
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englishchief wrote:
They're professional sportsmen in a sport which on the whole is pretty attractive to women. Why would they rape a woman when they could probably spend 20 seconds on tinder and find a willing one?

That's what doesn't make sense to me.

The Ched Evans case was a mess from start to finish. I'm pretty sure he's innocent, and he's had his name cleared anyway. A promising career ruined.

Here you, fúck away off somewhere you can continue fussing about foreign scrum halves.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:31 am 
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Interesting that Lenny's "feisty" post has not attracted the same level of criticism from the Irish on here.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:40 am 
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Seemed pretty clear to most he was referring to the confidence the alleged victim has shown in dealing with the questions of four defense lawyers.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:40 am 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Interesting that Lenny's "feisty" post has not attracted the same level of criticism from the Irish on here.

Aye that was shitty.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:47 am 
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The only independent witness has said she doesn't believe she was witnessing a rape and two said that the moaning they heard was not that of a woman being raped.

It's over IMHO


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:48 am 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Interesting that Lenny's "feisty" post has not attracted the same level of criticism from the Irish on here.



What are you getting out you xenophobic piece of anal discharge?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:49 am 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Interesting that Lenny's "feisty" post has not attracted the same level of criticism from the Irish on here.


Why does it bother you so much?

There's a couple of people who need to take a step back from this thread and have a glass of water.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:53 am 
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I think it's fairly clear now that the men didn't think they were doing anything wrong. That doesn't automatically mean that the woman is lying but you'd think it's relevant to the verdict. However, the discrepancy in the men's statements and the discrepancy between Jackson saying he didn't have sex with her while the witness says he did will have some relevance. Olding and McIlroy are probably in the clear unless the defence can rattle them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:58 am 
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I would doubt very much they'll be giving evidence.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:04 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
The only independent witness has said she doesn't believe she was witnessing a rape and two said that the moaning they heard was not that of a woman being raped.

It's over IMHO


She also says that she witnessed sex, and Jackson denied ever having sex. That's a bit of a smoking gun as it opens up the conversation around why Jackson would allegedly lie about it.

Again, just because it doesn't look like rape, doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Also, Lenny's post is a disgrace. A lot of posters showing themselves up as ignorant plums.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:06 am 
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Mick Mannock triggered again by the “Irish”.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:10 am 
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Jumper wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
The only independent witness has said she doesn't believe she was witnessing a rape and two said that the moaning they heard was not that of a woman being raped.

It's over IMHO


She also says that she witnessed sex, and Jackson denied ever having sex. That's a bit of a smoking gun as it opens up the conversation around why Jackson would allegedly lie about it.

Again, just because it doesn't look like rape, doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Also, Lenny's post is a disgrace. A lot of posters showing themselves up as ignorant plums.



At this stage, so what?

If you don't have reasonable doubt now you're a fool.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:15 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Jumper wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
The only independent witness has said she doesn't believe she was witnessing a rape and two said that the moaning they heard was not that of a woman being raped.

It's over IMHO


She also says that she witnessed sex, and Jackson denied ever having sex. That's a bit of a smoking gun as it opens up the conversation around why Jackson would allegedly lie about it.

Again, just because it doesn't look like rape, doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Also, Lenny's post is a disgrace. A lot of posters showing themselves up as ignorant plums.



At this stage, so what?

If you don't have reasonable doubt now you're a fool.


If the witness is to be believed, Jackson has allegedly lied to the police and in court about having sex with the girl. The whatsapp messages and now the witness say that he had sex with the girl. That puts anything he claims in serious doubt.

Just because I'm not jumping through hoops to try and believe the lads, it doesn't make me a fool.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:17 am 
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Blackrock Bullet wrote:
Mick Mannock triggered again by the “Irish”.

You certainly were not triggered by Lenny's post.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:22 am 
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Jumper wrote:

If the witness is to be believed, Jackson has allegedly lied to the police and in court about having sex with the girl. The whatsapp messages and now the witness say that he had sex with the girl. That puts anything he claims in serious doubt.

Just because I'm not jumping through hoops to try and believe the lads, it doesn't make me a fool.



You don't have to believe the two lads. You have to believe the only person with no skin in the game.

Lying about having consensual sex is not a crime.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:26 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Jumper wrote:

If the witness is to be believed, Jackson has allegedly lied to the police and in court about having sex with the girl. The whatsapp messages and now the witness say that he had sex with the girl. That puts anything he claims in serious doubt.

Just because I'm not jumping through hoops to try and believe the lads, it doesn't make me a fool.



You don't have to believe the two lads. You have to believe the only person with no skin in the game.

Lying about having consensual sex is not a crime.


Lying in court is a crime though. Lying about consensual sex after a rape allegation is also an extremely dubious move.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:28 am 
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Paddy Jackson to my knowledge hasn't made any statement in court so he hasn't lied in court.

He may have done so under caution or in an affidavit.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:28 am 
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Jumper wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Jumper wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
The only independent witness has said she doesn't believe she was witnessing a rape and two said that the moaning they heard was not that of a woman being raped.

It's over IMHO


She also says that she witnessed sex, and Jackson denied ever having sex. That's a bit of a smoking gun as it opens up the conversation around why Jackson would allegedly lie about it.

Again, just because it doesn't look like rape, doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Also, Lenny's post is a disgrace. A lot of posters showing themselves up as ignorant plums.



At this stage, so what?

If you don't have reasonable doubt now you're a fool.


If the witness is to be believed, Jackson has allegedly lied to the police and in court about having sex with the girl. The whatsapp messages and now the witness say that he had sex with the girl. That puts anything he claims in serious doubt.

Just because I'm not jumping through hoops to try and believe the lads, it doesn't make me a fool.


As far as the witness goes she hasn't said he had sex, she said it looked like he was on her impression. Nobody knows what he was at back there, and no explanation has been offered. Given that the girl had a rape kit done, and they have already mentioned no condoms being involved, the "smoking gun" that you keep going on about seems to be conspicuous by its absence.

The WhatsApps say nothing of the sort.

Presumably you live with your mammy and this is all blowing your mind a bit.


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