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 Post subject: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:35 am 
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Torygraph seems particularly peeved about him:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... rrayfield/

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This is why people doubt him Eddie. Wasted a prime attacking opportunity in the first half with a terrible pass and gave a way a stupid, momentum-killing penalty.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:44 am 
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Could May play 15?

The one thing I like about Brown is that he's predictable and consistent at what he does. In other words he's a safe option.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:47 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Could May play 15?

The one thing I like about Brown is that he's predictable and consistent at what he does. In other words he's a safe option.




May at fullback? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:54 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Could May play 15?

The one thing I like about Brown is that he's predictable and consistent at what he does. In other words he's a safe option.


God no, May needs help tying his laces.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:58 am 
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Brown was far from the worst performer. These guys are generally pushing Watson for 15 and he was awful yesterday in defence.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:04 am 
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Throwing the baby out with the bath water, Brown is a very good fullback. Watson got sidestepped by a second row a few weeks back, no way you want that as your last line of defense. England had a shit game, it happens. They're still a very very good team.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:35 am 
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Chips wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Could May play 15?

The one thing I like about Brown is that he's predictable and consistent at what he does. In other words he's a safe option.




May at fullback? :lol:


exactly my thought when i read that. :lol: :lol:

no offence, but the guy seems dumb as a chicken, not that rugby requires a PhD in general, but at least, you need some sense to play fullback.
I often wonder how may is able to run in the right direction on the field.... maybe there is someone in the opposite in-goal showing him some seeds ?


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:35 am 
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Paywall-


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:39 am 
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The thing that keeps getting missed in discussions about Brown is that there really isn't an obvious alternative. Watson is far better on the wing and would be a liability in defence at 15, Daly doesn't play there except in extreme circumstances and is injured at the moment anyway, Nowell has never looked promising at fullback, Alex Goode has proven time and time again that he is the inferior test player to Brown and I don't anticipate that changing soon, Pennell hasn't kicked on and neither have Haley or Addison, and as for Jonny May :lol: :uhoh: There's Aaron Morris at Quins I suppose but he's not exactly demanding selection at the moment either


Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:41 am 
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Brown is a average player.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:42 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


Utter tosh


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:42 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
The thing that keeps getting missed in discussions about Brown is that there really isn't an obvious alternative. Watson is far better on the wing and would be a liability in defence at 15, Daly doesn't play there except in extreme circumstances and is injured at the moment anyway, Nowell has never looked promising at fullback, Alex Goode has proven time and time again that he is the inferior test player to Brown and I don't anticipate that changing soon, Pennell hasn't kicked on and neither have Haley or Addison, and as for Jonny May :lol: :uhoh: There's Aaron Morris at Quins I suppose but he's not exactly demanding selection at the moment either


Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


Daly.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:43 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
The thing that keeps getting missed in discussions about Brown is that there really isn't an obvious alternative. Watson is far better on the wing and would be a liability in defence at 15, Daly doesn't play there except in extreme circumstances and is injured at the moment anyway, Nowell has never looked promising at fullback, Alex Goode has proven time and time again that he is the inferior test player to Brown and I don't anticipate that changing soon, Pennell hasn't kicked on and neither have Haley or Addison, and as for Jonny May :lol: :uhoh: There's Aaron Morris at Quins I suppose but he's not exactly demanding selection at the moment either


Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


Daly.


Maybe. He rarely ever plays there for club or country, but certainly has many of the attributes to be for us what Hogg is for Scotland. But if that's going to happen it's a long-term project and it's far from guaranteed that he'll be any better for us than Brown is in that position


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:45 am 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
The thing that keeps getting missed in discussions about Brown is that there really isn't an obvious alternative. Watson is far better on the wing and would be a liability in defence at 15, Daly doesn't play there except in extreme circumstances and is injured at the moment anyway, Nowell has never looked promising at fullback, Alex Goode has proven time and time again that he is the inferior test player to Brown and I don't anticipate that changing soon, Pennell hasn't kicked on and neither have Haley or Addison, and as for Jonny May :lol: :uhoh: There's Aaron Morris at Quins I suppose but he's not exactly demanding selection at the moment either


Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


Daly.


Maybe. He rarely ever plays there for club or country, but certainly has many of the attributes to be for us what Hogg is for Scotland. But if that's going to happen it's a long-term project and it's far from guaranteed that he'll be any better for us than Brown is in that position


He doesn’t play wing for wasps, Farrell doesn’t play 12 for sarries.

lawes doesn’t play 6 for sainted...


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:49 am 
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Goode plays for England and the conclusion is he's not good enough for England. Fair enough.

Brown plays for England and the conclusion for everyone bar Quins supporters is that he isn't good enough for England.

Brown needs to go, he's not good enough, not even close. Dismissing alternatives because they might not be better than Brown is the antonym to progress.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:50 am 
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mike brown is such a bald plum


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:51 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
The thing that keeps getting missed in discussions about Brown is that there really isn't an obvious alternative. Watson is far better on the wing and would be a liability in defence at 15, Daly doesn't play there except in extreme circumstances and is injured at the moment anyway, Nowell has never looked promising at fullback, Alex Goode has proven time and time again that he is the inferior test player to Brown and I don't anticipate that changing soon, Pennell hasn't kicked on and neither have Haley or Addison, and as for Jonny May :lol: :uhoh: There's Aaron Morris at Quins I suppose but he's not exactly demanding selection at the moment either


Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


Daly.


Maybe. He rarely ever plays there for club or country, but certainly has many of the attributes to be for us what Hogg is for Scotland. But if that's going to happen it's a long-term project and it's far from guaranteed that he'll be any better for us than Brown is in that position


He doesn’t play wing for wasps, Farrell doesn’t play 12 for sarries.

lawes doesn’t play 6 for sainted...


Lawes plays 6 for Saints far more often than Daly plays at fullback, and Faz basically plays as a second 10 for England anyway. Watson does play fullback for Bath and is still positionally at sea at test level at fullback (and on the wing at times). I'm not saying I'd be against us trying Daly at fullback, he seems to be a Bin Smuth type player who can look good more or less anywhere from 13 out, but the point is it's a risk. That risk probably wasn't worth taking while we were still getting wins, but might be worth looking into now. I'm open to experimenting with it at this point. But in any case Daly's injury means it was never on the cards for yesterday. And, once again, Brown really wasn't our problem yesterday


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:54 am 
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I’m a big mike brown fan, but I very much he’s going to make the RWC in Japan.

And yep- yesterday he was the least of our problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:56 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Paywall-


Spoiler: show
Quote:
England
15. Mike Brown
This is why people doubt him Eddie. Wasted a prime attacking opportunity in the first half with a terrible pass and gave a way a stupid, momentum-killing penalty. 4/10

14. Anthony Watson
His understanding with Brown seemed to break down. A couple of flashes in attack, but England needed more from one of their gamebreakers. 4/10

13. Jonathan Joseph
Hat-trick against Scotland last year is a distant memory, but had precisely zero joy against the Scottish defence this year. His outside break was bottled up. 5/10

12. Owen Farrell
Involved in a pre-game tunnel bust-up and seemed distracted throughout. Scored all England’s points and the most likely man to haul them back into the contest. 6/10

11. Jonny May
A couple of good thrusts down the left, but unable to fully break clear and guilty of a couple of poor decisions, particularly when catching a pass with a foot in touch. 6/10

10. George Ford
His kicking from hand failed to hit the mark as England lost the territory. Hesitant in defence and failed to really stamp his influence on the game. 4/10

9. Danny Care
Could not get his backline motoring despite some brisk service. Like Ford, his boxkicking was not quite on the money. 6/10

1. Mako Vunipola
Exempt from blame as he delivered a monstrous shift. His workrate for a prop is truly extraordinary and his hands are as soft as any fly half’s. 7/10

2. Dylan Hartley
Now the second most capped England player of all time, but the question marks remain. Few signs of his leadership when England disintegrated in the first half. 4/10

3. Dan Cole
No real evidence that the scrum training against Georgia paid dividends as England missed an opportunity to establish real dominance against the Scotland scrum. 5/10

4. Joe Launchbury
Led the team out on his 50th cap, but turned out to be an unhappy occasion. Gave away some costly penalties, but none more so than the one that ruled out a Danny Care try. 5/10

5. Maro Itoje
His quiet tournament continues. If England do revert to two second rows then the World Player of the Year nominee could make way. 4/10

6. Courtney Lawes
His huge hit on Barclay nearly created a try for Farrell but it is time to accept the triple-lock tactic is simply not working. The England pack is unbalanced in its current state. 5/10

7. Chris Robshaw
Remember what Eddie Jones wrote about Robshaw at the 2015 World Cup? Well he was right. Far more effective as blindside as he was played off the park by Watson. 6/10

8. Nathan Hughes
Coming into the game with only 25 minutes of match action in the past ten weeks and tired quickly after a couple of big early runs. Terrible tackle that allowed Jones to score his second. 4/10

Replacements: Jamie George (for Dylan Hartley, 55) 6; Joe Marler (for Mako Vunipola, 69) 6; Harry Williams (for Dan Cole, 65) 7; George Kruis (for Joe Launchbury, 72) 6; Sam Underhill (for Nathan Hughes, 55) 6; Richard Wigglesworth (for Danny Care, 72) 6; Ben Te’o (for George Ford, 65) 6; Jack Nowell (for Mike Brown, 56) 7.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:59 am 
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Ford a 4 citing his defence, Farrell a 6.

Reporter on drugs shocker.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:09 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Ford a 4 citing his defence, Farrell a 6.

Reporter on drugs shocker.




Care on 6 is more startling.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:11 am 
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Jake's basically stated that player ratings are little more than clickbait tbf, best to ignore them.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:16 am 
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Watson was our best attacking back, should be a 6
I think the props were really poor, should be dominating that scrum. Take 1 off Cole and 2 off Mako

Never sack a guy unless you KNOW his alternative is better. He was MOM last game, he’s not our problem.

Fix first:
Back row
Scrum


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:16 am 
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I must say I thought brown was one of our worst players yesterday. The awful defence with Watson for the second try, that daft momentum killing penalty, and that shite pass that ruined another move - just all utter gash.
I would like to see a fit Daly at FB as he has a big boot and serious gas.

May was the only player who ever looked threatening yesterday so talk of moving him to FB is barmy (not convinced of his rugby brain compared to say nowell)


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:59 am 
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Let's put Daly at FB for the first and second tests in South Africa this summer and see how that goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Better than Hogg according to some in the match thread :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Please play May at 15.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:06 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
The thing that keeps getting missed in discussions about Brown is that there really isn't an obvious alternative. Watson is far better on the wing and would be a liability in defence at 15, Daly doesn't play there except in extreme circumstances and is injured at the moment anyway, Nowell has never looked promising at fullback, Alex Goode has proven time and time again that he is the inferior test player to Brown and I don't anticipate that changing soon, Pennell hasn't kicked on and neither have Haley or Addison, and as for Jonny May :lol: :uhoh: There's Aaron Morris at Quins I suppose but he's not exactly demanding selection at the moment either


Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


Daly.


Maybe. He rarely ever plays there for club or country, but certainly has many of the attributes to be for us what Hogg is for Scotland. But if that's going to happen it's a long-term project and it's far from guaranteed that he'll be any better for us than Brown is in that position


He doesn’t play wing for wasps, Farrell doesn’t play 12 for sarries.

lawes doesn’t play 6 for sainted...


Daly regularly plays wing for Wasps, and wing is probably an easier switch anyway.

Until Daly plays at FB, the more obvious answer would seem to be Watson. Given that he's first choice FB for his club.

He certainly has flaws as a fullback, but we know about them because he plays there. To assume that because we haven't seen Daly make mistakes as a FB he would be a better option is a bit of a leap. Not that long ago, when he was being sent off against Argentina, people on here were writing him off as a wing option, FFS!


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:15 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Paywall-

Register for one free article a week. Bargain.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:53 pm 
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May and Care getting 6 out of 10. :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Please play May at 15.


:lol:

Fucking hell. I get scared enough with him on the wing. Has his talents, but I wouldn't trust him at 15 in a million years.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Watson at full back ... anyone else just not convinced when he's under the high ball?


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:34 pm 
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He Man Rugger Pints wrote:
Throwing the baby out with the bath water, Brown is a very good fullback. Watson got sidestepped by a second row a few weeks back, no way you want that as your last line of defense. England had a shit game, it happens. They're still a very very good team.

England had a shit game because the scots made them have a shit game.

Not liking these threads where England are suddenly shit. The Scotch played a fantastic game against the 2nd ranked team in the world and won.
Give them their due, lads.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:47 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
The thing that keeps getting missed in discussions about Brown is that there really isn't an obvious alternative. Watson is far better on the wing and would be a liability in defence at 15, Daly doesn't play there except in extreme circumstances and is injured at the moment anyway, Nowell has never looked promising at fullback, Alex Goode has proven time and time again that he is the inferior test player to Brown and I don't anticipate that changing soon, Pennell hasn't kicked on and neither have Haley or Addison, and as for Jonny May :lol: :uhoh: There's Aaron Morris at Quins I suppose but he's not exactly demanding selection at the moment either


Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


Daly.


I don't get this. Why do posters think throwing a player into a brand new position they don't even play at their club mean they will be good at it? The instant Daly is thrown into Full Back his lack of experience and indecision will be exploited and he'll be ruined. Especially against a Ireland with two very ruthless kickers. Like it or not only Brown and Watson are realistic contenders for 15 prior to the world cup, less you want to write that off.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:51 pm 
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I raised a glass of Scotch to the Scots with The Management. They deserved that win.

I had to anaesthetise myself somehow!


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:54 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
The thing that keeps getting missed in discussions about Brown is that there really isn't an obvious alternative. Watson is far better on the wing and would be a liability in defence at 15, Daly doesn't play there except in extreme circumstances and is injured at the moment anyway, Nowell has never looked promising at fullback, Alex Goode has proven time and time again that he is the inferior test player to Brown and I don't anticipate that changing soon, Pennell hasn't kicked on and neither have Haley or Addison, and as for Jonny May :lol: :uhoh: There's Aaron Morris at Quins I suppose but he's not exactly demanding selection at the moment either


Brown had a poor game, of that there is no doubt, but nobody has a good answer to who to play instead of him.


Daly.


I don't get this. Why do posters think throwing a player into a brand new position they don't even play at their club mean they will be good at it? The instant Daly is thrown into Full Back his lack of experience and indecision will be exploited and he'll be ruined. Especially against a Ireland with two very ruthless kickers. Like it or not only Brown and Watson are realistic contenders for 15 prior to the world cup, less you want to write that off.




England are playing Farrell at 12 and Lawes/Itoje at 6, Robshaw at 7. Moving from 14 to 15 is not a great leap.

However, the point you keep missing is that the bloke currently playing 15 is utter gash. Giving him more and more caps is not going to improve him.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:01 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Ford a 4 citing his defence, Farrell a 6.

Reporter on drugs shocker.


That man was handed off gently by Maitland yesterday at one point yesterday.

Jake declared yesterday Farrell has the vision to unlock any defense. Despite the fact we never seen him do anything but thrw or kick into clear open space. There is a reason he doesn't have YouTube videos showing him ripping apart defenses or exploiting space. I fact he must be the only player whose highlight video includes multiple shots of Farrell kicking for touch FFS! Imagine some one thinking that's the best stuff that should be in a Beauden Barrett or Kurtley Beale highlight video?

For some reason since he was a teenager a lot of the English press/fanbase have wanted Farrell to be the chosen one and complete ignore his flaws and limitations or what the stats show because they like that he is vocal or something. Farrell throws one good and obvious pass he is amazing, Sexton and about 6 kiwi and aussies 10 and 12's do the same most games it's ignored.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Chips wrote:

England are playing Farrell at 12 and Lawes/Itoje at 6, Robshaw at 7. Moving from 14 to 15 is not a great leap.

However, the point you keep missing is that the bloke currently playing 15 is utter gash. Giving him more and more caps is not going to improve him.


You realise half those examples given are regarded as failures?

And I haven't missed the point. The point I made is right now, building up to a world cup switching an ou of position player to a key position like 15 is a disaster waiting to happen. Worse then keeping Brown in the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:06 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Chips wrote:

England are playing Farrell at 12 and Lawes/Itoje at 6, Robshaw at 7. Moving from 14 to 15 is not a great leap.

However, the point you keep missing is that the bloke currently playing 15 is utter gash. Giving him more and more caps is not going to improve him.


You realise half those examples given are regarded as failures?

And I haven't missed the point. The point I made is right now, building up to a world cup switching an ou of position player to a key position like 15 is a disaster waiting to happen. Worse then keeping Brown in the team.




It really isn't. Is Brown good enough now? No, not even close. Is he an improving player or is he on the decline? No argument there I hope. Will he be a better player in 20 months time just after his 34th birthday? Will he fudge.


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 Post subject: Re: Mike Brown
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:09 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Ford a 4 citing his defence, Farrell a 6.

Reporter on drugs shocker.


That man was handed off gently by Maitland yesterday at one point yesterday.

Jake declared yesterday Farrell has the vision to unlock any defense. Despite the fact we never seen him do anything but thrw or kick into clear open space. There is a reason he doesn't have YouTube videos showing him ripping apart defenses or exploiting space. I fact he must be the only player whose highlight video includes multiple shots of Farrell kicking for touch FFS! Imagine some one thinking that's the best stuff that should be in a Beauden Barrett or Kurtley Beale highlight video?

For some reason since he was a teenager a lot of the English press/fanbase have wanted Farrell to be the chosen one and complete ignore his flaws and limitations or what the stats show because they like that he is vocal or something. Farrell throws one good and obvious pass he is amazing, Sexton and about 6 kiwi and aussies 10 and 12's do the same most games it's ignored.





The difference is that observers of rugby from all over the world rate Farrell as a player, not just English fanboys.


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