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 Post subject: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Just had a look at the stats from the weekend, some interesting reading, particularly metres run which I guess is a good guide:

Hogg 79
Minozzi - 70
Kearney - 46
Palis -39
Halfpenny - 21
Brown - 15

Minozzi seems like he will be a pretty class player and pretty surprised Halfpenny was so low, but I guess his two trys were run ins. Kearney also looked pretty sharp after a quiet couple of years.

Not a complete science this of course, some players played against the worst team in the tournament, others were in teams that scored the most points over the weekend etc, but still interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:22 pm 
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pretty meaningless stat tbh, 90% depends on how many times the opposition kicked it to them. how about numbers of defenders beaten ?


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:26 pm 
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slick wrote:
Just had a look at the stats from the weekend, some interesting reading, particularly metres run which I guess is a good guide:

Hogg 79
Minozzi - 70
Kearney - 46
Palis -39
Halfpenny - 21
Brown - 15

Minozzi seems like he will be a pretty class player and pretty surprised Halfpenny was so low, but I guess his two trys were run ins. Kearney also looked pretty sharp after a quiet couple of years.

Not a complete science this of course, some players played against the worst team in the tournament, others were in teams that scored the most points over the weekend etc, but still interesting.

No. No he didn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:34 pm 
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backrow wrote:
pretty meaningless stat tbh, 90% depends on how many times the opposition kicked it to them. how about numbers of defenders beaten ?


Minozzi - 4
Hogg - 3
Halfpenny - 2
Brown - 1

Others, zero, sadly.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Brown was crap, but has been unable to play or train for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:39 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Brown was crap, but has been unable to play or train for a while.


Surely there's a case for Watson at FB?


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Kearney looked safe under the high ball, and unremarkable otherwise. Brown played the worse I've seen him play.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:03 pm 
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slick wrote:
Just had a look at the stats from the weekend, some interesting reading, particularly metres run which I guess is a good guide:

Hogg 79
Minozzi - 70
Kearney - 46
Palis -39
Halfpenny - 21
Brown - 15

Minozzi seems like he will be a pretty class player and pretty surprised Halfpenny was so low, but I guess his two trys were run ins. Kearney also looked pretty sharp after a quiet couple of years.

Not a complete science this of course, some players played against the worst team in the tournament, others were in teams that scored the most points over the weekend etc, but still interesting.


This is why stats are misleading - Hogg was awful on Saturday - most of his meters were run behind the gainline or crabbing across the pitch. It's like a few years ago when Robshaw would often run back kickoffs for England - makes for great stats but totally meanigless when taken out of context.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:05 pm 
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P in VG wrote:
slick wrote:
Just had a look at the stats from the weekend, some interesting reading, particularly metres run which I guess is a good guide:

Hogg 79
Minozzi - 70
Kearney - 46
Palis -39
Halfpenny - 21
Brown - 15

Minozzi seems like he will be a pretty class player and pretty surprised Halfpenny was so low, but I guess his two trys were run ins. Kearney also looked pretty sharp after a quiet couple of years.

Not a complete science this of course, some players played against the worst team in the tournament, others were in teams that scored the most points over the weekend etc, but still interesting.


This is why stats are misleading - Hogg was awful on Saturday - most of his meters were run behind the gainline or crabbing across the pitch. It's like a few years ago when Robshaw would often run back kickoffs for England - makes for great stats but totally meanigless when taken out of context.


Sideways meters aren't counted in match stats.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Zakar wrote:

Sideways meters aren't counted in match stats.


Ok. My mistake - looks like Hogg had a great game :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
Kearney looked safe under the high ball, and unremarkable otherwise. Brown played the worse I've seen him play.


If you ignore the fact that he can't attack, won't defend, passes on average once a tournament, and make allowances for his lack of pace, he's the complete modern day full back. He is very experienced, and great under a high ball most of the time, so apparently he's well worth his place.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:41 pm 
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FBs always have high numbers for metres run with the ball, as they catch it a mile behind everyone else and run back towards the rest of the players. That's all counted as metres gained, even if all they're doing is recovering lost metres.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
Kearney looked safe under the high ball, and unremarkable otherwise.

Apart from one absolute howler under no pressure.
Did clean up very well after we lost the ball and France kicked ahead.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:08 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Brown was crap, but has been unable to play or train for a while.


Surely there's a case for Watson at FB?


We tried it against Samoa and he was anonymous. He also didn't look great when he moved back there against Italy. Brown deserves the tournament to show some form, otherwise let Daly / Watson / Nowell scrap it out


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:09 pm 
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P in VG wrote:
Zakar wrote:

Sideways meters aren't counted in match stats.


Ok. My mistake - looks like Hogg had a great game :roll:


I didn't say he did, just that your premise was wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:10 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Brown was crap, but has been unable to play or train for a while.


Surely there's a case for Watson at FB?


We tried it against Samoa and he was anonymous. He also didn't look great when he moved back there against Italy. Brown deserves the tournament to show some form, otherwise let Daly / Watson / Nowell scrap it out


Watson is such a good finisher, not sure FB is the best use of him.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:24 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Brown was crap, but has been unable to play or train for a while.


Surely there's a case for Watson at FB?


We tried it against Samoa and he was anonymous. He also didn't look great when he moved back there against Italy. Brown deserves the tournament to show some form, otherwise let Daly / Watson / Nowell scrap it out


Fair enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:34 pm 
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South Africa wrote:
what?


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:38 pm 
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assfly wrote:
South Africa wrote:
what?


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Kearney looked safe under the high ball, and unremarkable otherwise. Brown played the worse I've seen him play.


If you ignore the fact that he can't attack, won't defend, passes on average once a tournament, and make allowances for his lack of pace, he's the complete modern day full back. He is very experienced, and great under a high ball most of the time, so apparently he's well worth his place.

The hilarious thing is it is impossible to tell if you are talking about Kearney or Brown :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm 
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slick wrote:
Just had a look at the stats from the weekend, some interesting reading, particularly metres run which I guess is a good guide:

Hogg 79
Minozzi - 70
Kearney - 46
Palis -39
Halfpenny - 21
Brown - 15

Minozzi seems like he will be a pretty class player and pretty surprised Halfpenny was so low, but I guess his two trys were run ins. Kearney also looked pretty sharp after a quiet couple of years.

Not a complete science this of course, some players played against the worst team in the tournament, others were in teams that scored the most points over the weekend etc, but still interesting.


Walk ins, he looked slow.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Keith wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Kearney looked safe under the high ball, and unremarkable otherwise. Brown played the worse I've seen him play.


If you ignore the fact that he can't attack, won't defend, passes on average once a tournament, and make allowances for his lack of pace, he's the complete modern day full back. He is very experienced, and great under a high ball most of the time, so apparently he's well worth his place.

The hilarious thing is it is impossible to tell if you are talking about Kearney or Brown :lol:


I was covering all bases.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Bump - would be nice to get an update on this after round 2


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:15 pm 
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backrow wrote:
pretty meaningless stat tbh, 90% depends on how many times the opposition kicked it to them. how about numbers of defenders beaten ?


82.35%


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:19 pm 
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can't wait for Minozzi and Campagnaro to play in the same team.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:20 pm 
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UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:23 pm 
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UPDATE:

Still average:

Top 5 for metres gained in Round 2
1. Jacob Stockdale - Ireland - 132
2. Stuart Hogg - Scotland - 123
3. Mike Brown - England - 118
4. Gareth Anscombe - Wales - 104
5. Mattia Bellini - Italy - 89
Read more at https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/news ... c9gJc1Q.99


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Brown was crap, but has been unable to play or train for a while.


Surely there's a case for Watson at FB?


We tried it against Samoa and he was anonymous. He also didn't look great when he moved back there against Italy. Brown deserves the tournament to show some form, otherwise let Daly / Watson / Nowell scrap it out


Watson is such a good finisher, not sure FB is the best use of him.


Daly feels more likely to wind up at 15 than Watson, long term.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:33 pm 
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slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


yeah but nah, depends which Mike Brown turns up - he was good last week and beat lots of defenders.
metres made alone is an almost meaningless stat, a dire game of ping pong can add loads of metres despite doing bugger all.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:44 pm 
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backrow wrote:
slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


yeah but nah, depends which Mike Brown turns up - he was good last week and beat lots of defenders.
metres made alone is an almost meaningless stat, a dire game of ping pong can add loads of metres despite doing bugger all.


Yeah I know. JM2K6 and I just joshing.

Although he is wrong. Very, very wrong.

EDIT: Hang on, no. Just re read your post, you are also wrong. Apart from the bit about meaningless stats.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:49 pm 
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slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


You took this well


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:54 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


You took this well


How about "Brown is no [insert attacking fullback of choice] but his defensive solidity, ability to field high balls and general dependability allow England to play a couple of speed merchants one, at least, of whom appears to have the brain of a box of fireworks"

Without Brown you'd not have May AND Watson IMO


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:54 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


You took this well


I am comfortable with my position


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:28 pm 
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ManInTheBar wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


You took this well


How about "Brown is no [insert attacking fullback of choice] but his defensive solidity, ability to field high balls and general dependability allow England to play a couple of speed merchants one, at least, of whom appears to have the brain of a box of fireworks"

Without Brown you'd not have May AND Watson IMO


It's not about whether, for example, Hogg is a better attacking player. He is. The question originally was about slick saying calling Brown a counter attacking fullback was insane.

He is a counter attacker, it's exactly his style of rugby. Ah well.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:30 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


You took this well


How about "Brown is no [insert attacking fullback of choice] but his defensive solidity, ability to field high balls and general dependability allow England to play a couple of speed merchants one, at least, of whom appears to have the brain of a box of fireworks"

Without Brown you'd not have May AND Watson IMO


It's not about whether, for example, Hogg is a better attacking player. He is. The question originally was about slick saying calling Brown a counter attacking fullback was insane.

He is a counter attacker, it's exactly his style of rugby. Ah well.


I'm an attacking fullback when I play there. Questionable as to how effective I am, but it's a question of style not results.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Delete "but" and insert "so" ?


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:04 pm 
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ManInTheBar wrote:
Delete "but" and insert "so" ?


Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:33 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


You took this well


How about "Brown is no [insert attacking fullback of choice] but his defensive solidity, ability to field high balls and general dependability allow England to play a couple of speed merchants one, at least, of whom appears to have the brain of a box of fireworks"

Without Brown you'd not have May AND Watson IMO


It's not about whether, for example, Hogg is a better attacking player. He is. The question originally was about slick saying calling Brown a counter attacking fullback was insane.

He is a counter attacker, it's exactly his style of rugby. Ah well.



If your definition of counter-attacking is running at medium pace into the nearest defender then Brown is a world beater.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Brown was a decent counter attacker a few years ago. Hasn't been for a while now.


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 Post subject: Re: Attacking Full Backs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:39 pm 
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Chips wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
slick wrote:
UPDATE:

Mike Brown is good at catching. Mike Brown is a functional full back. Anyone who seriously suggests Mike Brown is an "attacking full back" is insane.


You took this well


How about "Brown is no [insert attacking fullback of choice] but his defensive solidity, ability to field high balls and general dependability allow England to play a couple of speed merchants one, at least, of whom appears to have the brain of a box of fireworks"

Without Brown you'd not have May AND Watson IMO


It's not about whether, for example, Hogg is a better attacking player. He is. The question originally was about slick saying calling Brown a counter attacking fullback was insane.

He is a counter attacker, it's exactly his style of rugby. Ah well.



If your definition of counter-attacking is running at medium pace into the nearest defender then Brown is a world beater.

Stop being silly


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