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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:17 pm 
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The lawyer representing rape-accused Blue Bulls player Khwezi Mafu has stated in defence that the encounter was 'consensual'.

The loose forward was arrested in December last year after he allegedly assaulted and raped a woman in KwaMagxaki in the Eastern Cape.

During the bail hearing, Pieter Gouws – one of the lawyers representing the player – said that the charges were simply a delay to the player's career.

'My client is sitting in a jail cell needlessly... the complainant was not even emotional. She didn’t cry and she didn’t scream for help during the rape,' Gouws stated during an extended bail application at the New Brighton Magistrate’s court.

'Rape victims should scream rape: "I’m being raped." The complainant never did, so this was clearly consensual sex.'

In defence, it was further stated that Mafu should be released on bail because both former SA cricketer Makhaya Ntini and president Jacob Zuma had been granted bail when they were accused of rape.

He is currently in police custody in the North End Correctional Centre, awaiting judgement on his bail application.

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/rape-victims-should-scream-rape

Jeez


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:21 pm 
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No, apparently you should scream 'fire'

People are more likely to react.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:22 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
No, apparently you should scream 'fire'

People are more likely to react.


tbf its in SA, the being on fire bit is assumed during a rape


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:22 pm 
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There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.


Indeed. Surely it should be obviously when a girl is isolated, not sure if there is any help and is massively intimidated or threatened that screaming may not be an option.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:25 pm 
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A serious subject so excuse flippancy but this seems a bit like calling "ruck" and then a "roll away" warning.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:45 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.


Indeed. Surely it should be obviously when a girl is isolated, not sure if there is any help and is massively intimidated or threatened that screaming may not be an option.


well, that would carry more water (legally speaking) in the jackson/olding case, apart from the fact that another woman (a friend of her friend) walked into the room, but the defendant said nothing.

I think those lads are going down, but it (the resistance/lack of) is not as clear cut in the jackson/olding case, as your two posts above would seem to suggest


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.

I have no idea what happened, glad you do :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:48 pm 
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lorcanoworms wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.

I have no idea what happened, glad you do :thumbup:


I don't, you complete moron, I'm only commenting on what I've read about the case.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
lorcanoworms wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.

I have no idea what happened, glad you do :thumbup:


I don't, you complete moron, I'm only commenting on what I've read about the case.

You were running off at the mouth, gobshite.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Good thread. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:06 pm 
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lorcanoworms wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
lorcanoworms wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.

I have no idea what happened, glad you do :thumbup:


I don't, you complete moron, I'm only commenting on what I've read about the case.

You were running off at the mouth, gobshite.


By commenting on the case? Go and shit you doddery old fudge.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:21 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.


Indeed. Surely it should be obviously when a girl is isolated, not sure if there is any help and is massively intimidated or threatened that screaming may not be an option.


well, that would carry more water (legally speaking) in the jackson/olding case, apart from the fact that another woman (a friend of her friend) walked into the room, but the defendant said nothing.

I think those lads are going down, but it (the resistance/lack of) is not as clear cut in the jackson/olding case, as your two posts above would seem to suggest


I only provided an easy and obvious example I believe the "they should scream rape" brigade could understand as to why it isn't a acse that wmen should scream during a rape. I don't think it's related to the specifics of the Jackson/Olding case.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:34 pm 
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I remember a case in England maybe about the turn of the century where this bloke was walking home and heard a woman screaming rape. He waded in, dragged the bloke off and gave him a hiding. Afterwards, the couple tried to charge the 'rescuer' with assault etc, because they were acting out a fantasy or suchlike, but the case got thrown out of court because the judge argued that the woman was responsible for what happened by screaming rape and if he took any action, other people who were genuinely being raped might be left alone by passers-by worried about the consequences of intervening where they shouldn't. I know South Africa is a wholly different kettle of fish, but the judge's comments seem eminently practical and sensible to me.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Heavy application of linament will overcome any lack of training or fitness.

Teams that score tries early on will get over confident.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:40 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Heavy application of linament will overcome any lack of training or fitness.

Teams that score tries early on will get over confident.



Should the losing team shout "Rape! Rape !" repeatedly ?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:01 am 
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People (usually men) make all sorts of incorrect assumptions about how people would usually react in different situations. In the area of child sexual abuse, I've heard so many adult men say that the sexual abuse couldn't have happened in a particular situation because the person (victim) has only disclosed the abuse many years later.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:10 am 
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I thought it was quite common for women to 'shut down' while being assaulted as a defence mechanism?

Shitty thing for the lawyer to say.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:26 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Heavy application of linament will overcome any lack of training or fitness.

Teams that score tries early on will get over confident.


:lol: Wrong thread methinks.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:27 am 
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lorcanoworms wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
lorcanoworms wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.

I have no idea what happened, glad you do :thumbup:


I don't, you complete moron, I'm only commenting on what I've read about the case.

You were running off at the mouth, gobshite.


Image


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:43 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
Heavy application of linament will overcome any lack of training or fitness.

Teams that score tries early on will get over confident.


:lol: Wrong thread methinks.

That's fûcking hysterical


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:03 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
Heavy application of linament will overcome any lack of training or fitness.

Teams that score tries early on will get over confident.


:lol: Wrong thread methinks.

That's fûcking hysterical


:lol: :lol: :blush: :blush: :blush:

Not quite sure what happened there.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:44 am 
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Unbelievably stupid things for the lawyer to say. I think the player should get a new lawyer if that is his level of sensitivity about rape.

I know nothing about the case, but it appears the defendant will argue actual consent OR a reasonable belief that consent has been given. If the lawyer goes on the way he has started, that defence won't be taken seriously, purely because of the tone and manner in which it is stated.

I would want a new lawyer asap.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:03 am 
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jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:12 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.


Always the contrarian.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:22 am 
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Tehui wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.


Always the contrarian.

You’ve misspelt cunt


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:40 am 
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Hong Kong wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.


Always the contrarian.

You’ve misspelt cunt

You Magoo are bang out of order. More than most you know he may well have begged his client to plead guilty but if the guy wants to plead not guilty then defend the indefensible he must


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:46 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.

He is supposed to run that defence in a considerate and realistic manner, not make outlandish comments that detract from his client's chance of receiving a fair hearing.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:49 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.


Always the contrarian.

You’ve misspelt cunt

You Magoo are bang out of order. More than most you know he may well have begged his client to plead guilty but if the guy wants to plead not guilty then defend the indefensible he must

Oh toughen up princess.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:21 am 
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dam0 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.

He is supposed to run that defence in a considerate and realistic manner, not make outlandish comments that detract from his client's chance of receiving a fair hearing.



Maybe he is of opinion that his client is a filthy rapist that deserves a decent stretch in jail and thus he is now doing his best to get justice done.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:39 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
dam0 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.

He is supposed to run that defence in a considerate and realistic manner, not make outlandish comments that detract from his client's chance of receiving a fair hearing.



Maybe he is of opinion that his client is a filthy rapist that deserves a decent stretch in jail and thus he is now doing his best to get justice done.

Not likely. I have never met another lawyer who deliberately did his client wrong, and I've been doing it a while.

Lawyers can be idiots and they are usually cúnts but they don't do that to their clients. Just not worth it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:46 am 
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It was posted as satire.

Although, having seen some young lawyers in South Africa, I believe that a few could be as hamfisted as portrayed. Even so I would like to have seen/heard the full argument before falling for the reporter's trope.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:45 am 
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dam0 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
Jesus what a monster.

The defendant is a poor character too.

Get real. They guy is trying to defend his client. Maybe he shouldn't have taken the brief but as they say everyone is entitled to a defence. His client seems to have taken the girl on a date then raped and sodomised her anally and orally at the side of the road. Apart from rubbishing the complainant what the fark is he supposed to do.

He is supposed to run that defence in a considerate and realistic manner, not make outlandish comments that detract from his client's chance of receiving a fair hearing.

They don't have jury trials in South Africa. I don't believe when the case comes to court the those comments are going to be an issue


Last edited by Anonymous. on Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:47 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
If a lawyer believes a case to be almost unwinnable and tries to get his client so show some contrition in the hope of a reduced sentence that is not doing him wrong.



Lawyers have to work according to instruction, not ?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:54 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
If a lawyer believes a case to be almost unwinnable and tries to get his client so show some contrition in the hope of a reduced sentence that is not doing him wrong.

Lawyers has to work according to instruction, not ?

For some reason I thought dam0 had replied to my post not yours. However the point still stands. The overwhelming evidence against your client suggests trying to make a "plea deal" is the best way forward that is what they should do. However if the client insists they thought the person they shot in the toilet was an intruder then they have to go with that.

Who knows. M'lady might be a jackass


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:06 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
If a lawyer believes a case to be almost unwinnable and tries to get his client so show some contrition in the hope of a reduced sentence that is not doing him wrong.

Lawyers has to work according to instruction, not ?

For some reason I thought dam0 had replied to my post not yours. However the point still stands. The overwhelming evidence against your client suggests trying to make a "plea deal" is the best way forward that is what they should do. However if the client insists they thought the person they shot in the toilet was an intruder then they have to go with that.

Who knows. M'lady might be a jackass


:lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:35 am 
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jdogscoop wrote:
lorcanoworms wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
lorcanoworms wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
There are people who clearly think that though, as shocking as it is. In the case with the two Irish players currently there's a lot being made about how the girl froze and "didn't resist". It's abit sick.

I have no idea what happened, glad you do :thumbup:


I don't, you complete moron, I'm only commenting on what I've read about the case.

You were running off at the mouth, gobshite.


Image

I love that emoticon.


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