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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
BlackMac wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
BlackMac wrote:
Your last sentence is just absolutely idiotic


Perhaps you'd like not to act like the stereo-typical policeman and provide some rationale rather than simply asserting it is so? The days of John Christie, when just because a policeman said it was so made it so, are over for most of us. ;)


No I am quite happy to leave it at "absolutely idiotic" because that is how everyone else will see it. I might add "horrifically prejudiced" as well. :nod:

I'll go slowly. :D

Any club or society and many occupations will defeat your original statement (which was "and does anyone seriously think that prejudice among the young cops on the front line in the Met is any greater than any other part of our society") because the whole purpose is to attract people of similar tendencies (generally because that is a desirable thing to aid the outcome). Hence bimboman is playing Canute with his refuting of stereotypes because being a stereotype (in at least one aspect) is almost a pre-requisite e.g.
- the photographic society will attract people who are greater than the other parts of society at taking pics
- the trainspotters group.......... even more extreme
- nurses: disproportionately caring
- army: disproportionately aggressive
- BMW drivers: disproportionately w*nk*rs (hey bimbo: you don't drive a Beemer, do you? :o )

And so, the police will never be a normal distribution representation of society on multiple levels
- bravery (or fool hardy) willingness to be endangered
- wanting to parade around in a uniform (yeah not unique: lots of professions that is true of but our benchmark is society)
- and guess what............. when everyone knows of the racist tendencies of the Met................. :roll:


No one is saying that there has not been and to an extent still are problems, but you either deliberately fail to accept, or genuinely have no idea of the changes since all the examples you have quoted.

Finally to overlook the other qualities that attract young people to the profession and equate the attraction as similar to why people join the BNP is just disgraceful. I appreciate that I have no experience of the Met but I would actually suggest that the attitude of young officers who have joined over the last 5 to 10 years will be among the most socially diverse and politically aware you will find among any organisation, however what would I know compared to what you can read in the papers and watch on tv.

As I have said the most openly prejudiced person on this thread currently appears to be yourself.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:56 pm 
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And try not to debate ta Keith levels with me. I cited those as some examples. I don't recall stating that it was the entire body of evidence (of which, BTW, you've provided the sum total of zero to back your opinions [they don't yet qualify as arguments]. Talk about double standards).




Assume you picked your best examples though.

2018.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:38 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
And try not to debate ta Keith levels with me. I cited those as some examples. I don't recall stating that it was the entire body of evidence (of which, BTW, you've provided the sum total of zero to back your opinions [they don't yet qualify as arguments]. Talk about double standards).




Assume you picked your best examples though.

2018.

They were pretty random from memory in as much as they were the ones I could easily recall (and link to) for the spread of timeframe I was trying to highlight.

OK. 17 January 2018 (since you appear to think something radical will have transpired in 3 years?)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42702432

Quick points
1) I'm actually in Black Mac's camp anyway in that tokenism does not work but regardless, the data shows that in no way is policing representative of normal society distribution in the UK.
2) Bimbo wants us to believe there have been significant changes.
"North Yorkshire Police does not have a single female officer from the black community." No change there that I can determine.
3)
Image
I know Leics very well and although Leicester itself is not the whole of the County, only about half the population is white whereas the police has a representation of non-whites of 8%. And this table is of the forces with the best representation. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:59 pm 
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BlackMac wrote:
No one is saying that there has not been and to an extent still are problems, but you either deliberately fail to accept, or genuinely have no idea of the changes since all the examples you have quoted.

Finally to overlook the other qualities that attract young people to the profession and equate the attraction as similar to why people join the BNP is just disgraceful. I appreciate that I have no experience of the Met but I would actually suggest that the attitude of young officers who have joined over the last 5 to 10 years will be among the most socially diverse and politically aware you will find among any organisation, however what would I know compared to what you can read in the papers and watch on tv.

As I have said the most openly prejudiced person on this thread currently appears to be yourself.

You admit you don't even live in this country and you have no experience of the Met and then go on to...... :roll:

I didn't overlook the other "qualities" (but read what I wrote on bravery anyway since you ignored it...). I ignored them because my point was simple enough to grasp: a racist institution (or one that is perceived as such: I'm not getting into the philosophical debate over whether that is a distinction) will attract people with racist tendencies. Do you live in a one dimensional world (stay away from quantum mechanics then!)? It's entirely possible for a police officer to be brave, dedicated, a super crime solver.......... and a racist. The other traits were entirely irrelevant to the central tenet of our debate.

This one is interesting and also depressing
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... e-officers
which implies
- disproportionately few blacks apply to the police
- but those that do have a disproportionately low chance of succeeding which means....



Quote:
Janet Hills, the new president of the National Black Police Association (NBPA), said .... the figures portrayed the need for positive action and greater scrutiny of police chiefs

FM. When will people learn that the cure is to change the conditions so people want to apply and not artificially force up the participating numbers.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Torq, North Yorkshire has 1382 officers in total, and a very very white demographic .

Leicester could certainly do with more Asian officers I'd imagine, again there not examples of actual abusive policing though.

Quote:
FM. When will people learn that the cure is to change the conditions so people want to apply and not artificially force up the participating numbers.


What conditions need changing to sort out the differance between working class white and black in their desire to serve as police officers ?


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