Planet Rugby Forum

naki wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Bullettyme wrote:You should have taken him to the ground BJJ style

boom.

Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

And yeah, I agree - if you know what you're doing. Taking a dude to the ground isn't going to be that helpful if you're just as clueless as they are. The best thing about it in these kind of situations is, if you know what you're doing, you can totally subdue the guy without actually doing any damage that could wind you up in court or something.

Naki: sorry to hear about that experience. Must have been frightening as hell, although sounds like you handled it well. Dealing with someone who is obviously unhinged is scary because you just don't know what they're willing to do. Did you or anyone else get a number plate? Did you get contact details from any of the witnesses?

As a side-point, how f'n mental does a fellah have to be to tail-gate someone like a moron, rear-end them and then get out and act like it was all the other guys fault. Crazy shit.

Yes, got the plates. Any witnesses had moved on by the time I’d recovered enough of my faculties to even ask, and without wanting to pre-judge I’m not sure any would have been much use. Still a bit pissed no-one even tried to help, one old Auntie asked if I was ok then toddled off.

I’m assuming this guy has some current or prior legal issues (no small thing in SG) which might explain some of his behaviour, he definitely wanted no part of anything official.

In any case, insurance company have requested police report so I’m going to go through all of that. Hardly seems worth it for a scratch on a rented Lexus and a sore shin.

Mog The Almighty wrote:
Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Bullettyme wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Bullettyme wrote:You should have taken him to the ground BJJ style

boom.

Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

And yeah, I agree - if you know what you're doing. Taking a dude to the ground isn't going to be that helpful if you're just as clueless as they are. The best thing about it in these kind of situations is, if you know what you're doing, you can totally subdue the guy without actually doing any damage that could wind you up in court or something.

Naki: sorry to hear about that experience. Must have been frightening as hell, although sounds like you handled it well. Dealing with someone who is obviously unhinged is scary because you just don't know what they're willing to do. Did you or anyone else get a number plate? Did you get contact details from any of the witnesses?

As a side-point, how f'n mental does a fellah have to be to tail-gate someone like a moron, rear-end them and then get out and act like it was all the other guys fault. Crazy shit.

I was, it was a joke at your expense.

Okay, so you have no idea what you're talking about then. Fair enough.

jolindien wrote:naki, last stuff, just in case.

As said, civilized people not aiming to fight in any situation always get "surprised" and somehow stupefied by this kind of fùckers and situations, and that may put the "victim" in a strange state of "trauma", frustration, and powerlessness.
Of course, you don't want such a situation to happen, you're not a bully, you don't want to be killed or badly harmed in your everyday life, and you don't want to kill or harm a fùcker for real and to have to handle the consequences. So how could one feel, considering the fact that you couldn't and shouldn't react in the same level of agression, but still have to deal with the agression ? So frustrating.

My cousin who is a cop, deals on a daily basis with these shits and gets the same feeling of frustration and powerlessness so often. And he is a cop ! But they can't do to the fùckers what the fùckers do to them. They cope with abuses, being assaulted, and quite often being sued for harming the fùckers, and being asked money etc. so they have to deal with the justice and lawyers etc. being on the wrong side (agressor), fùckers being called "victim".
And, when the fùckers land their hits and the cops get harmed, and so may sue the fùckers in justice, said fùckers are obvisouly used to the shit and have no money so barely anything happen in the end.
My cousin is a cop, but he is no dirty harry (i mean i know him), and he really feels frustrated with all this mess, and more an more with the fùckers now aiming to threaten the cops in their everyday life (know where you live, know your kids, wife... all that shit).

Still, what he told me in case of a street fight, whether you can react and land some punch or not etc, and what self-defence coaches usually say too in that kind of situation, is : the aim is to get away from the fight and stop the shit before it's going bad.

So in the end, as frustrating and traumatic as it can be, you did well naki.


Funny : watch Ray Sefo interview about a fight in a crowd at a UFC where he was seating... even him was trying to get away from the mess
... it's here, crazy : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV_IWwAg0tg&t=5m30s

naki wrote:
Not looking forward to going over the CCTV footage. I’m guessing the fake-out shin kick is going to be so telegraphed they’re going to ask why I didn’t block it

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:
Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

FTR, it certainly doesn't make you useless in a real fight, just incredibly vulnerable.

ManInTheBar wrote:

naki wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Bullettyme wrote:You should have taken him to the ground BJJ style

boom.

Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

And yeah, I agree - if you know what you're doing. Taking a dude to the ground isn't going to be that helpful if you're just as clueless as they are. The best thing about it in these kind of situations is, if you know what you're doing, you can totally subdue the guy without actually doing any damage that could wind you up in court or something.

Naki: sorry to hear about that experience. Must have been frightening as hell, although sounds like you handled it well. Dealing with someone who is obviously unhinged is scary because you just don't know what they're willing to do. Did you or anyone else get a number plate? Did you get contact details from any of the witnesses?

As a side-point, how f'n mental does a fellah have to be to tail-gate someone like a moron, rear-end them and then get out and act like it was all the other guys fault. Crazy shit.

Yes, got the plates. Any witnesses had moved on by the time I’d recovered enough of my faculties to even ask, and without wanting to pre-judge I’m not sure any would have been much use. Still a bit pissed no-one even tried to help, one old Auntie asked if I was ok then toddled off.

I’m assuming this guy has some current or prior legal issues (no small thing in SG) which might explain some of his behaviour, he definitely wanted no part of anything official.

In any case, insurance company have requested police report so I’m going to go through all of that. Hardly seems worth it for a scratch on a rented Lexus and a sore shin.

Culprit will roast in hell, that's got to be good, no?

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:
Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

FTR, it certainly doesn't make you useless in a real fight, just incredibly vulnerable.

I guess that's why the teach it to special forces soldiers all over the world. But with your experience I'm sure you knew that already. Just a hardcore skeptic I guess?

Bullettyme wrote:

naki wrote:
Not looking forward to going over the CCTV footage. I’m guessing the fake-out shin kick is going to be so telegraphed they’re going to ask why I didn’t block it

CCTV footage is never good, because no matter how good you think things went in your head, it looks ridiculous on CCTV.

Some twat hit me with a bottle in a pub years ago (and his scumbag mate stabbed me soon after), I thought I put up a half decent defence. After viewing the CCTV I was sadly very wrong.

naki wrote:

Bullettyme wrote:

naki wrote:
Not looking forward to going over the CCTV footage. I’m guessing the fake-out shin kick is going to be so telegraphed they’re going to ask why I didn’t block it

CCTV footage is never good, because no matter how good you think things went in your head, it looks ridiculous on CCTV.

Some twat hit me with a bottle in a pub years ago (and his scumbag mate stabbed me soon after), I thought I put up a half decent defence. After viewing the CCTV I was sadly very wrong.

Jesus, was the stabbing caught on tape also? Not sure anyone would look at their best when bleeding knife-wound blood

guy smiley wrote:

naki wrote: Not looking forward to going over the CCTV footage. I’m guessing the fake-out shin kick is going to be so telegraphed they’re going to ask why I didn’t block it

Just point out, smugly, that you come from a civilised country and could hardly be expected to encounter such barbarity on the street.

Bullettyme wrote:

naki wrote:

Bullettyme wrote:

naki wrote:
Not looking forward to going over the CCTV footage. I’m guessing the fake-out shin kick is going to be so telegraphed they’re going to ask why I didn’t block it

CCTV footage is never good, because no matter how good you think things went in your head, it looks ridiculous on CCTV.

Some twat hit me with a bottle in a pub years ago (and his scumbag mate stabbed me soon after), I thought I put up a half decent defence. After viewing the CCTV I was sadly very wrong.

Jesus, was the stabbing caught on tape also? Not sure anyone would look at their best when bleeding knife-wound blood

It was a very light stabbing. I was pretty lucky.

JM2K6 wrote:Passing this on to our immigration people - New Zealand aren't sending us their best people, they are sending us their criminals and violent thugs like naki

danny_fitz wrote:Had a weird encounter at the cinema last month when I had to ask a couple a few seats down from me several times to stop snoring during the film (they were both asleep). He was dead to the world and could not be roused so ended up having a word with the wife who could not give a sh*t and adopted the 'whatever' response when I pointed out they were ruining the film for half the cinema. I questioned why they were even at the cinema given they had slept through most of the film at which case I called them both selfish f*ckers and returned to my seat. After the film I could see the wife getting quite animated with her now awake feller trying to get him to 'do something' about me having a word with her. He was clearly not in the mood and just wanted to go home but she was browbeating him so he saunters up to me and I can see that he is not actually very big yet he is all puffed up like a mini Grant Mitchell.

"I hear you called my wife f**king selfish for snoring during the film"

"Well you were snoring too"

"Yeah well I don't like my wife being spoken to like that"

"Mate, the pair of you ruined the film, I asked nicely for you to be quiet, you both ignored that"

"Do that again I am going to cut your f*cking head off"

"Eh......okay"

"You don't think I am serious"

"Not really......"

"I f*cking will"

"Pretty sure you wont"

"I f*cking will"

"No you wont"

<He sulks off>

Wife returns from toilets

"Hi sweetie, someone just threated to chop my head off"

"That's nice dear, shall we go and get a drink"

naki wrote:

danny_fitz wrote:Had a weird encounter at the cinema last month when I had to ask a couple a few seats down from me several times to stop snoring during the film (they were both asleep). He was dead to the world and could not be roused so ended up having a word with the wife who could not give a sh*t and adopted the 'whatever' response when I pointed out they were ruining the film for half the cinema. I questioned why they were even at the cinema given they had slept through most of the film at which case I called them both selfish f*ckers and returned to my seat. After the film I could see the wife getting quite animated with her now awake feller trying to get him to 'do something' about me having a word with her. He was clearly not in the mood and just wanted to go home but she was browbeating him so he saunters up to me and I can see that he is not actually very big yet he is all puffed up like a mini Grant Mitchell.

"I hear you called my wife f**king selfish for snoring during the film"

"Well you were snoring too"

"Yeah well I don't like my wife being spoken to like that"

"Mate, the pair of you ruined the film, I asked nicely for you to be quiet, you both ignored that"

"Do that again I am going to cut your f*cking head off"

"Eh......okay"

"You don't think I am serious"

"Not really......"

"I f*cking will"

"Pretty sure you wont"

"I f*cking will"

"No you wont"

<He sulks off>

Wife returns from toilets

"Hi sweetie, someone just threated to chop my head off"

"That's nice dear, shall we go and get a drink"

Decapitation is a weird threat, unless he was mooslamic.

He should have started at kneecapping like a normal psycho and worked his way up

danny_fitz wrote:

naki wrote:

danny_fitz wrote:Had a weird encounter at the cinema last month when I had to ask a couple a few seats down from me several times to stop snoring during the film (they were both asleep). He was dead to the world and could not be roused so ended up having a word with the wife who could not give a sh*t and adopted the 'whatever' response when I pointed out they were ruining the film for half the cinema. I questioned why they were even at the cinema given they had slept through most of the film at which case I called them both selfish f*ckers and returned to my seat. After the film I could see the wife getting quite animated with her now awake feller trying to get him to 'do something' about me having a word with her. He was clearly not in the mood and just wanted to go home but she was browbeating him so he saunters up to me and I can see that he is not actually very big yet he is all puffed up like a mini Grant Mitchell.

"I hear you called my wife f**king selfish for snoring during the film"

"Well you were snoring too"

"Yeah well I don't like my wife being spoken to like that"

"Mate, the pair of you ruined the film, I asked nicely for you to be quiet, you both ignored that"

"Do that again I am going to cut your f*cking head off"

"Eh......okay"

"You don't think I am serious"

"Not really......"

"I f*cking will"

"Pretty sure you wont"

"I f*cking will"

"No you wont"

<He sulks off>

Wife returns from toilets

"Hi sweetie, someone just threated to chop my head off"

"That's nice dear, shall we go and get a drink"

Decapitation is a weird threat, unless he was mooslamic.

He should have started at kneecapping like a normal psycho and worked his way up

He was Scottish

There’s only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. Don’t pussyfoot, don’t wait for the war to escalate. Nuke them, right off. Hit them with everything, milk bottle, car tool, clenched keys or coins. The first blow has to give everything. If he takes it, and you go down, then you get all he has to mete out anyway. The worst, the most extreme violence — at once. Extremity is the only element of surprise. Hit them with everything. No quarter.”

Bullettyme wrote:

naki wrote:
Not looking forward to going over the CCTV footage. I’m guessing the fake-out shin kick is going to be so telegraphed they’re going to ask why I didn’t block it

CCTV footage is never good, because no matter how good you think things went in your head, it looks ridiculous on CCTV.

Some twat hit me with a bottle in a pub years ago (and his scumbag mate stabbed me soon after), I thought I put up a half decent defence. After viewing the CCTV I was sadly very wrong.

MrDominator wrote:Jeez, there are some right beta males on this thread.

If someone gets in your face and attacks you, then you have the right of self-defence. In such circumstances the wisest course of action is the one laid out by Martin Amis in Money:

There’s only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. Don’t pussyfoot, don’t wait for the war to escalate. Nuke them, right off. Hit them with everything, milk bottle, car tool, clenched keys or coins. The first blow has to give everything. If he takes it, and you go down, then you get all he has to mete out anyway. The worst, the most extreme violence — at once. Extremity is the only element of surprise. Hit them with everything. No quarter.”

naki wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:Passing this on to our immigration people - New Zealand aren't sending us their best people, they are sending us their criminals and violent thugs like naki

I’m taking my newfound “hug-and-squeal” fisticuff skills to your local, JM.

I’d like to see you try to argue tackle completion statistics to my face NOW, motherfvcker.

MrDominator wrote:Jeez, there are some right beta males on this thread.

If someone gets in your face and attacks you, then you have the right of self-defence. In such circumstances the wisest course of action is the one laid out by Martin Amis in Money:

There’s only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. Don’t pussyfoot, don’t wait for the war to escalate. Nuke them, right off. Hit them with everything, milk bottle, car tool, clenched keys or coins. The first blow has to give everything. If he takes it, and you go down, then you get all he has to mete out anyway. The worst, the most extreme violence — at once. Extremity is the only element of surprise. Hit them with everything. No quarter.”

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:
Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

FTR, it certainly doesn't make you useless in a real fight, just incredibly vulnerable.

I guess that's why the teach it to special forces soldiers all over the world. But with your experience I'm sure you knew that already. Just a hardcore skeptic I guess?

What part of "it certainly doesn't make you useless in a real fight" did you fail to grasp?

MrDominator wrote:Jeez, there are some right beta males on this thread.

If someone gets in your face and attacks you, then you have the right of self-defence. In such circumstances the wisest course of action is the one laid out by Martin Amis in Money:

There’s only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. Don’t pussyfoot, don’t wait for the war to escalate. Nuke them, right off. Hit them with everything, milk bottle, car tool, clenched keys or coins. The first blow has to give everything. If he takes it, and you go down, then you get all he has to mete out anyway. The worst, the most extreme violence — at once. Extremity is the only element of surprise. Hit them with everything. No quarter.”

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:
Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

FTR, it certainly doesn't make you useless in a real fight, just incredibly vulnerable.

I guess that's why the teach it to special forces soldiers all over the world. But with your experience I'm sure you knew that already. Just a hardcore skeptic I guess?

What part of "it certainly doesn't make you useless in a real fight" did you fail to grasp?

I was referring to the other bit - incredibly vulnerable. I find it hard to believe that actual soldiers who literally fight with their lives on the line would train in something that makes them "incredibly vulnerable".

Sure, it makes you incredibly vulnerable if there's three other guys there with baseball bats. But news flash - you're going to be "vulnerable" in that scenario no matter what. So that's a moot point. BJJ doesn't make you vulnerable there. Three guys with baseball bats make you vulnerable. But if it's one-on-one, as in Naki's experience, and really, the majority of confrontations outside of Hong Kong Kung Fu movie street fights are, then it does the exact opposite: it makes you less vulnerable. Less vulnerable to damage if the guy has a weapon, less vulnerable to strikes if he's an experienced brawler, less vulnerable to being KOed and smacking your head on the concrete, less vulnerable to being sued if you do that to him.

MrDominator wrote:Jeez, there are some right beta males on this thread.

If someone gets in your face and attacks you, then you have the right of self-defence. In such circumstances the wisest course of action is the one laid out by Martin Amis in Money:

There’s only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. Don’t pussyfoot, don’t wait for the war to escalate. Nuke them, right off. Hit them with everything, milk bottle, car tool, clenched keys or coins. The first blow has to give everything. If he takes it, and you go down, then you get all he has to mete out anyway. The worst, the most extreme violence — at once. Extremity is the only element of surprise. Hit them with everything. No quarter.”

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:
Obviously you were not one of the guys telling me my BJJ training would be useless in a "real fight".

FTR, it certainly doesn't make you useless in a real fight, just incredibly vulnerable.

I guess that's why the teach it to special forces soldiers all over the world. But with your experience I'm sure you knew that already. Just a hardcore skeptic I guess?

What part of "it certainly doesn't make you useless in a real fight" did you fail to grasp?

I was referring to the other bit - incredibly vulnerable. I find it hard to believe that actual soldiers who literally fight with their lives on the line would train in something that makes them "incredibly vulnerable".

Sure, it makes you incredibly vulnerable if there's three other guys there with baseball bats. But news flash - you're going to be "vulnerable" in that scenario no matter what. So that's a moot point. BJJ doesn't make you vulnerable there. Three guys with baseball bats make you vulnerable. But if it's one-on-one, as in Naki's experience, and really, the majority of confrontations outside of Hong Kong Kung Fu movie street fights are, then it does the exact opposite: it makes you less vulnerable. Less vulnerable to damage if the guy has a weapon, less vulnerable to strikes if he's an experienced brawler, less vulnerable to being KOed and smacking your head on the concrete, less vulnerable to being sued if you do that to him.

naki wrote: Would there be any tactical advantage in, say, a bit of poo coming out while down there?

Turbogoat wrote:Hey, as long as you know you're only going to be in clear one on one fights with an unarmed opponent, BJJ is the shit. It rocks. It's fantastic. No question there.

jolindien wrote:So it's seems some kind of controversy is developping at the moment in here, on the attitude of naki during the events ?

Let's make it clear, once for all.

As he said, he was raised as a warrior in the darkest streets, of the darkest place, of the darkness island. He once was living of the death of his ennemies, eating their liver and their heart, drinking the blood of his victims. This was his life, his everyday life, 9 to 5, 5 days a week.

He has now settled a bit, living an expat life as a banker in a tiny touristic asian island. Still, his might is just asleep, and it's not because an asian L-driver teenager kicked the shit out of his shin that he lost his might. That kind of shit may happen to any mighty warrior. After all, it just took a single tiny almost-not-forward pass to knock mighty NZ out of a RWC.

So now, PLEASE... LEAVE NAKI ALONE !

MrDominator wrote:Jeez, there are some right beta males on this thread.

If someone gets in your face and attacks you, then you have the right of self-defence. In such circumstances the wisest course of action is the one laid out by Martin Amis in Money:

There’s only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. Don’t pussyfoot, don’t wait for the war to escalate. Nuke them, right off. Hit them with everything, milk bottle, car tool, clenched keys or coins. The first blow has to give everything. If he takes it, and you go down, then you get all he has to mete out anyway. The worst, the most extreme violence — at once. Extremity is the only element of surprise. Hit them with everything. No quarter.”

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:Hey, as long as you know you're only going to be in clear one on one fights with an unarmed opponent, BJJ is the shit. It rocks. It's fantastic. No question there.

Obviously you don't know that you'll only ever be in 1-1 fights with an unarmed opponent. But for the average guy, that is the most likely scenario. And if you ever are, and it's unavoidable, then yes, I believe it would be incredibly helpful. I know you're not saying it, so I'm not putting words in your mouth, but there were guys in the other thread basically saying it wouldn't mean shit. Which is just nonsense. Grapple with even just a blue-belt in BJJ and they'd change their tune very quickly. You feel totally incapacitated and totally vulnerable to their whim. Let alone a serious expert.

And it's not just BJJ. Any sort of grappling that requires constant sparring would work.

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:Hey, as long as you know you're only going to be in clear one on one fights with an unarmed opponent, BJJ is the shit. It rocks. It's fantastic. No question there.

Obviously you don't know that you'll only ever be in 1-1 fights with an unarmed opponent. But for the average guy, that is the most likely scenario. And if you ever are, and it's unavoidable, then yes, I believe it would be incredibly helpful. I know you're not saying it, so I'm not putting words in your mouth, but there were guys in the other thread basically saying it wouldn't mean shit. Which is just nonsense. Grapple with even just a blue-belt in BJJ and they'd change their tune very quickly. You feel totally incapacitated and totally vulnerable to their whim. Let alone a serious expert.

And it's not just BJJ. Any sort of grappling that requires constant sparring would work.

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:Hey, as long as you know you're only going to be in clear one on one fights with an unarmed opponent, BJJ is the shit. It rocks. It's fantastic. No question there.

Obviously you don't know that you'll only ever be in 1-1 fights with an unarmed opponent. But for the average guy, that is the most likely scenario. And if you ever are, and it's unavoidable, then yes, I believe it would be incredibly helpful. I know you're not saying it, so I'm not putting words in your mouth, but there were guys in the other thread basically saying it wouldn't mean shit. Which is just nonsense. Grapple with even just a blue-belt in BJJ and they'd change their tune very quickly. You feel totally incapacitated and totally vulnerable to their whim. Let alone a serious expert.

And it's not just BJJ. Any sort of grappling that requires constant sparring would work.

Look, I'm not knocking BJJ at all, it really is a lot more combat oriented than most sports like Karate. It's great training, gives you a lot more capability and is very useful, I'm not disagreeing with that at all, so give those needless digs a rest, ok?


Being in a 1-1 scenario is no longer the most likely option any more, especially judging by many thread on here, where the scourge of immigrant gangs going round and attacking people is a daily occurrence in Europe apparently.
Kids growing up now have no 'honour code' drummed into them about fights being fair, or stopping when your opponent goes down, and trying to still play by those rules gets some pretty capable guys badly hurt every day. They'll think nothing of stepping in when you take your opponent to the ground and start choking him out and giving you a few swift kicks to the head, if he isn't already stabbing your arm with his knife.

If you go to ground, you've lost your mobility, your overview, your ability to disengage rapidly. If you have a choice -I'll repeat that - IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE - don't drop to the ground and lose those abilities as they may be the difference between waling away and getting a boot to the head, at least.

Wilson's Toffee wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:Hey, as long as you know you're only going to be in clear one on one fights with an unarmed opponent, BJJ is the shit. It rocks. It's fantastic. No question there.

Obviously you don't know that you'll only ever be in 1-1 fights with an unarmed opponent. But for the average guy, that is the most likely scenario. And if you ever are, and it's unavoidable, then yes, I believe it would be incredibly helpful. I know you're not saying it, so I'm not putting words in your mouth, but there were guys in the other thread basically saying it wouldn't mean shit. Which is just nonsense. Grapple with even just a blue-belt in BJJ and they'd change their tune very quickly. You feel totally incapacitated and totally vulnerable to their whim. Let alone a serious expert.

And it's not just BJJ. Any sort of grappling that requires constant sparring would work.

Most non-grapplers would be total shit against a good grappler. Boxers have a hard time subduing wrestlers ... in a ring.

But even an outstanding grappler would be shit to the extra guy, the guy on his feet, the guy who is swinging the bottle from behind ...

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Turbogoat wrote:Hey, as long as you know you're only going to be in clear one on one fights with an unarmed opponent, BJJ is the shit. It rocks. It's fantastic. No question there.

Obviously you don't know that you'll only ever be in 1-1 fights with an unarmed opponent. But for the average guy, that is the most likely scenario. And if you ever are, and it's unavoidable, then yes, I believe it would be incredibly helpful. I know you're not saying it, so I'm not putting words in your mouth, but there were guys in the other thread basically saying it wouldn't mean shit. Which is just nonsense. Grapple with even just a blue-belt in BJJ and they'd change their tune very quickly. You feel totally incapacitated and totally vulnerable to their whim. Let alone a serious expert.

And it's not just BJJ. Any sort of grappling that requires constant sparring would work.

Look, I'm not knocking BJJ at all, it really is a lot more combat oriented than most sports like Karate. It's great training, gives you a lot more capability and is very useful, I'm not disagreeing with that at all, so give those needless digs a rest, ok?


Being in a 1-1 scenario is no longer the most likely option any more, especially judging by many thread on here, where the scourge of immigrant gangs going round and attacking people is a daily occurrence in Europe apparently.
Kids growing up now have no 'honour code' drummed into them about fights being fair, or stopping when your opponent goes down, and trying to still play by those rules gets some pretty capable guys badly hurt every day. They'll think nothing of stepping in when you take your opponent to the ground and start choking him out and giving you a few swift kicks to the head, if he isn't already stabbing your arm with his knife.

If you go to ground, you've lost your mobility, your overview, your ability to disengage rapidly. If you have a choice -I'll repeat that - IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE - don't drop to the ground and lose those abilities as they may be the difference between waling away and getting a boot to the head, at least.

Yes, well I agree with all of that and apologize for the "needless digs".

My only point of contention is that if you're up against multiple guys who are willing to glass you, you're f-cked in any case. If there was zero option but to fight for your life, the best option would probably be to try and catch the first one, or the leader, on the jaw or the nose with a hard punch I guess, and just hope the others have second thoughts. But yes, going to the ground and wrestling him for five minutes with his mates standing around willing to bottle you is probably not the best strategy.

In my experience, the vast majority of confrontations are one-on-one though. Or if not, then it's many-on-many and most of the time, they kind of pair-off anyway. But I do take your point. Maybe I'm just getting old. It's not as if I go around getting in fights at 40. Maybe these days it's all a big gang bang against one person.

Still, even if only 20% are one-on-one, I'd still rather have the training than not have it. I think the number would be considerably higher than 20% though. Of course, it depends largely on where you live, where you go, and who you hang out with. I would think that the average, non-ghetto, non-criminal or gang urban confrontation - often as a result of road rage, or pub disagreements, or whatever, are still often, but not always, one on one.