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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:00 am 
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kiwigreg369 wrote:
Feels like there is sime sub-standard thinking going on here.

Rather than arm teachers, why don't they get the army to teach.

Would you like to know more?

KG



The quality of graduandi in the USA military should actually be (potentially) a marvelous source of teachers.
If they can get their thinking right they should do it, why not ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:06 am 
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I will quote John Adams at those who think to solve these problems in oppressive ways ...

Quote:
Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.
Letter to his son, John Quincy Adams (13 November 1816)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:14 am 
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Arming teachers. Is this a joke?

omg


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:17 am 
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Last Line wrote:
Arming teachers. Is this a joke?

omg



I bet some of them would love to let loose on a few of their charges ...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:36 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiiuUzFQ2Bg


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:37 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Why should the gun sellers have to have the final say over a man's mental health ? Having mental checks in the way asked would not have stopped Cruz, he was already on his way to disaster ..
Cruz was cookoo from a long while ago, the police knew it, the FBI knew ut, the kids next door knew it - he was supposed to be isolated and cared for in many other ways than being left to swim in an ocean he is patently not equipped to be in. Mentally ill people who need help should get it - not be kicked away from the door only when they want to buy a weapon. Or left to become a monster.

They all just hoped he would go away - and left the problem for the next man. Not wanting to intrude on his human rights, probably ... maybe scared a bunch of SJWs will picket them, shout and make rude noises, possibly start litigation on behalf of a young man who should have been in an institute for all I can gather .. With disastrous results.

America's freedom has come to bite herself in the arse.


Stop. You're making a complete show of yourself.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:47 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Why should the gun sellers have to have the final say over a man's mental health ? Having mental checks in the way asked would not have stopped Cruz, he was already on his way to disaster ..
Cruz was cookoo from a long while ago, the police knew it, the FBI knew ut, the kids next door knew it - he was supposed to be isolated and cared for in many other ways than being left to swim in an ocean he is patently not equipped to be in. Mentally ill people who need help should get it - not be kicked away from the door only when they want to buy a weapon. Or left to become a monster.

They all just hoped he would go away - and left the problem for the next man. Not wanting to intrude on his human rights, probably ... maybe scared a bunch of SJWs will picket them, shout and make rude noises, possibly start litigation on behalf of a young man who should have been in an institute for all I can gather .. With disastrous results.

America's freedom has come to bite herself in the arse.


Stop. You're making a complete show of yourself.


Quote:
Old minds are like old horses; you must exercise them if you wish to keep them in working order.
As quoted by Josiah Quincy III, in Looking Toward Sunset : From Sources Old and New, Original and Selected (1865) by Lydia Maria Francis Child, p. 431


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:46 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
People have to stick up for each other in times of high stress. Normally they do. Being trained and equipped to handle a situation would help them a lot.
Teachers could, of course, probably, want more pay .. something like "danger pay" - which they would deserve.

You are full on delusional.

A close friend of mine's career involved being armed. It was what he did, every day of his life. He was trained. Properly.

In 2005 when armed police shot De Menenez in London, I posted that it looked like a f**k up. Partly because my friend had highlighted specific elements to me of the incident but the main point he made was that even though those officers were professional enforcement AND had gun training, they had no experience under real pressure. They panicked.

In his entire career of dealing with the real bad guys, my friend tells me he has never had to kill anyone because years of experience allowed him that luxury. FWIW, he is entirely against the idea of armed police in the UK on any sort of scale.

And you reckon a 1 day training course at your local duck shoot is going to be of any significance? :|


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
People have to stick up for each other in times of high stress. Normally they do. Being trained and equipped to handle a situation would help them a lot.
Teachers could, of course, probably, want more pay .. something like "danger pay" - which they would deserve.

You are full on delusional.

A close friend of mine's career involved being armed. It was what he did, every day of his life. He was trained. Properly.

In 2005 when armed police shot De Menenez in London, I posted that it looked like a f**k up. Partly because my friend had highlighted specific elements to me of the incident but the main point he made was that even though those officers were professional enforcement AND had gun training, they had no experience under real pressure. They panicked.

In his entire career of dealing with the real bad guys, my friend tells me he has never had to kill anyone because years of experience allowed him that luxury. FWIW, he is entirely against the idea of armed police in the UK on any sort of scale.

And you reckon a 1 day training course at your local duck shoot is going to be of any significance? :|



I said trained. Like in decently trained, by professional people.
That means trained. And refreshing all the time.
Not a little "certificate" officiating the skills, issued by some alphabet body, but real skills.

As for "delusional" - did you ever have to carry a firearm, in earnest ? Like in, in line of duty ? Or in circumstances dictating the utter need of it ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:50 pm 
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The policy depends more on creating the perception that schools are “hard” targets than armed teachers actually being especially effective in that role. The thinking being that the deterrent effect will deliver a reduction through mentally unstable shooters logically weighing the risks and benefits of targeting environment where they should anticipate some resistance.

Large walls with strategically placed snipers would be more effective, and we can take the budget from the library budget, just don’t touch the football program.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Quote:
A police officer who was on duty at a Florida high school and did nothing to stop gunman Nikolas Cruz when he started his massacre has been suspended.

Deputy Scot Peterson, who was armed with a handgun, didn't follow police procedure and immediately confront Cruz when he started his rampage killing 17 people with an AR-15 assault rifle, according to the Broward County Sheriff's department.

Instead he took cover at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School for upwards of four minutes and 'never went in ', according to Sheriff Scott Israel who said Peterson's actions left him 'Sick to my stomach. There are no words.'

Israel added that the school resources officer should have have 'gone in, addressed the killer and killed the killer.'


Aside from the obvious point, how insane is it to have armed police at a school in a country like the US.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Mr Mike wrote:
The policy depends more on creating the perception that schools are “hard” targets than armed teachers actually being especially effective in that role. The thinking being that the deterrent effect will deliver a reduction through mentally unstable shooters logically weighing the risks and benefits of targeting environment where they should anticipate some resistance.

Large walls with strategically placed snipers would be more effective, and we can take the budget from the library budget, just don’t touch the football program.



Can those snipers touch the visiting quarterback .. when he becomes a nuisance in play ?
Will do endless bits for motivation.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Boobs not Moobs wrote:
Quote:
A police officer who was on duty at a Florida high school and did nothing to stop gunman Nikolas Cruz when he started his massacre has been suspended.

Deputy Scot Peterson, who was armed with a handgun, didn't follow police procedure and immediately confront Cruz when he started his rampage killing 17 people with an AR-15 assault rifle, according to the Broward County Sheriff's department.

Instead he took cover at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School for upwards of four minutes and 'never went in ', according to Sheriff Scott Israel who said Peterson's actions left him 'Sick to my stomach. There are no words.'

Israel added that the school resources officer should have have 'gone in, addressed the killer and killed the killer.'


Aside from the obvious point, how insane is it to have armed police at a school in a country like the US.



Armed policeman was needed. Edit : As can be seen by developments. And was there. But did not do his job, again.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
People have to stick up for each other in times of high stress. Normally they do. Being trained and equipped to handle a situation would help them a lot.
Teachers could, of course, probably, want more pay .. something like "danger pay" - which they would deserve.

You are full on delusional.

A close friend of mine's career involved being armed. It was what he did, every day of his life. He was trained. Properly.

In 2005 when armed police shot De Menenez in London, I posted that it looked like a f**k up. Partly because my friend had highlighted specific elements to me of the incident but the main point he made was that even though those officers were professional enforcement AND had gun training, they had no experience under real pressure. They panicked.

In his entire career of dealing with the real bad guys, my friend tells me he has never had to kill anyone because years of experience allowed him that luxury. FWIW, he is entirely against the idea of armed police in the UK on any sort of scale.

And you reckon a 1 day training course at your local duck shoot is going to be of any significance? :|



I said trained. Like in decently trained, by professional people.
That means trained. And refreshing all the time.
Not a little "certificate" officiating the skills, issued by some alphabet body, but real skills.

As for "delusional" - did you ever have to carry a firearm, in earnest ? Like in, in line of duty ? Or in circumstances dictating the utter need of it ?

I have just highlighted that even "trained" police are probably not up to the job and you counter with the argument that a school teacher can be sufficiently equipped to tackle a role the police are incapable of. Well done for deductive reasoning. :thumbup:

Ummm. No. You aren't really keeping up here, are you? I'm on the side of the argument that says guns are bad.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
I have just highlighted that even "trained" police are probably not up to the job and you counter with the argument that a school teacher can be sufficiently equipped to tackle a role the police are incapable of. Well done for deductive reasoning. :thumbup:

Ummm. No. You aren't really keeping up here, are you? I'm on the side of the argument that says guns are bad.



Maybe YOU are not quite keeping up. I come from a country and an era when most men here were at least militarily trained and most acquired at least some experience. Many were officers in the military, some even fighting men (not desk soldiers), others were reservist policemen 9in a police force who constantly had run-ins with terrorists) so the capability of teachers to be trained for such an eventuality has been proved over and over. Do not think they are all softies or incapable just because they prefer to teach.

As for the UK policemen that did not come up to standards - training and conditioning, mostly, I would hazard. After selection, of course. The bored's UK policemen and soldiery would be capable to answer that.
You need a nice little local war in the UK to re-adjust your civilian thinking.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:07 pm 
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If not arming the teachers what about arming the buildings? Not some sort of robotic sentry gun but something like making it harder to enter the school and class room with reinforced doors that can't be kicked down or locks shot open or bulletproof windows or maybe better escape routes that can only be initiated from the inside. I have no experience of this kind of thing so I may be completely barking up the wrong tree but perhaps there are ways to combat guns without more guns.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
I have just highlighted that even "trained" police are probably not up to the job and you counter with the argument that a school teacher can be sufficiently equipped to tackle a role the police are incapable of. Well done for deductive reasoning. :thumbup:

Ummm. No. You aren't really keeping up here, are you? I'm on the side of the argument that says guns are bad.



Maybe YOU are not quite keeping up. I come from a country and an era when most men here were at least militarily trained and most acquired at least some experience.

I'll stop you there then. How does this apply to teachers in the USA? Maybe any teachers need to be sent to an active war zone first?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
I have just highlighted that even "trained" police are probably not up to the job and you counter with the argument that a school teacher can be sufficiently equipped to tackle a role the police are incapable of. Well done for deductive reasoning. :thumbup:

Ummm. No. You aren't really keeping up here, are you? I'm on the side of the argument that says guns are bad.



Maybe YOU are not quite keeping up. I come from a country and an era when most men here were at least militarily trained and most acquired at least some experience.

I'll stop you there then. How does this apply to teachers in the USA? Maybe any teachers need to be sent to an active war zone first?


You've just nailed Trump's master plan to recruit ex-military men as teachers

How does it feel to be agreeing with Trump?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Torquemada 1420 wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
I have just highlighted that even "trained" police are probably not up to the job and you counter with the argument that a school teacher can be sufficiently equipped to tackle a role the police are incapable of. Well done for deductive reasoning. :thumbup:

Ummm. No. You aren't really keeping up here, are you? I'm on the side of the argument that says guns are bad.



Maybe YOU are not quite keeping up. I come from a country and an era when most men here were at least militarily trained and most acquired at least some experience.

I'll stop you there then. How does this apply to teachers in the USA? Maybe any teachers need to be sent to an active war zone first?



Teachers who WERE and had experience of active war zones might be employed, why not ? As said, the USA armed forces vets might have some very interesting characters available .. with some decent qualifications. I am quite sure some ex-policemen would also be willing to spend a second career teaching ... under the right circumstances.

I can see the local antifa chapters piss their pants when the US Army deploys a series of lecturers... :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:18 pm 
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bessantj wrote:
If not arming the teachers what about arming the buildings? Not some sort of robotic sentry gun but something like making it harder to enter the school and class room with reinforced doors that can't be kicked down or locks shot open or bulletproof windows or maybe better escape routes that can only be initiated from the inside. I have no experience of this kind of thing so I may be completely barking up the wrong tree but perhaps there are ways to combat guns without more guns.


You are definitely onto something here, with modern camera tech it must be easy to identify anyone through facial recognition software that is not meant to be at the school. Any face that pops up not on the approved list the robot sentry takes them out before they have a chance to do anything.

This could of course then be extended through the extensive CCTV network and you could have the robot armed sentries spread throughout the city and country, go somewhere unapproved, bang. Might take a couple of days of teething problems but people will soon get with the program and only go where they have prior approval.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Lorthern Nights wrote:
bessantj wrote:
If not arming the teachers what about arming the buildings? Not some sort of robotic sentry gun but something like making it harder to enter the school and class room with reinforced doors that can't be kicked down or locks shot open or bulletproof windows or maybe better escape routes that can only be initiated from the inside. I have no experience of this kind of thing so I may be completely barking up the wrong tree but perhaps there are ways to combat guns without more guns.


You are definitely onto something here, with modern camera tech it must be easy to identify anyone through facial recognition software that is not meant to be at the school. Any face that pops up not on the approved list the robot sentry takes them out before they have a chance to do anything.

This could of course then be extended through the extensive CCTV network and you could have the robot armed sentries spread throughout the city and country, go somewhere unapproved, bang. Might take a couple of days of teething problems but people will soon get with the program and only go where they have prior approval.

Well that sounds terrifying


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Lorthern Nights wrote:
bessantj wrote:
If not arming the teachers what about arming the buildings? Not some sort of robotic sentry gun but something like making it harder to enter the school and class room with reinforced doors that can't be kicked down or locks shot open or bulletproof windows or maybe better escape routes that can only be initiated from the inside. I have no experience of this kind of thing so I may be completely barking up the wrong tree but perhaps there are ways to combat guns without more guns.


You are definitely onto something here, with modern camera tech it must be easy to identify anyone through facial recognition software that is not meant to be at the school. Any face that pops up not on the approved list the robot sentry takes them out before they have a chance to do anything.

This could of course then be extended through the extensive CCTV network and you could have the robot armed sentries spread throughout the city and country, go somewhere unapproved, bang. Might take a couple of days of teething problems but people will soon get with the program and only go where they have prior approval.


I suppose "arming the buildings" isn't the best phrase but you know what I mean.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Most soldiers are thick and not remotely qualified to be teachers. They would need a degree in specialist subjects for starters. Plus intensive weapons training a la special forces.

And most of the millions of teachers would not have anything to do with carrying and using a weapon.

The idea is ridiculous.....but hardly surprising coming from Trump and the NRA.

What is the problem with proper vetting as they do in many other countries, and getting rid of military style weapons for civilians.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:31 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
Most soldiers are thick and not remotely qualified to be teachers. They would need a degree in specialist subjects for starters. Plus intensive weapons training a la special forces.

And most of the millions of teachers would not have anything to do with carrying and using a weapon.

The idea is ridiculous.....but hardly surprising coming from Trump and the NRA.

What is the problem with proper vetting as they do in many other countries, and getting rid of military style weapons for civilians.



Who will do the vetting ? The same FBI that ignored the Cruz reports ? Or the police that also played down his problems, or hid when he became a sudden HUGE problem ?

FYI - a single shot rifle kills just as efficiently as a semi-automatic or a fully automatic weapon. Sometimes more. In skilled hands they are in some circumstances even more lethal.
Banning AR15s will not solve the problem, taking care of mentally ill Americans just might be a decent start. And addressing their problems...

(For those raving and slavering now - read my views on issue of firearms to mental cases, mental evaluation, arms registry, etc. etc. A few pages ago.)

EDIT : How many teachers, acting as a "reaction force", would be needed at any one school ? Two ? Five ?
Not many, I guarantee.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:37 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
Most soldiers are thick and not remotely qualified to be teachers. They would need a degree in specialist subjects for starters. Plus intensive weapons training a la special forces.

And most of the millions of teachers would not have anything to do with carrying and using a weapon.

The idea is ridiculous.....but hardly surprising coming from Trump and the NRA.

What is the problem with proper vetting as they do in many other countries, and getting rid of military style weapons for civilians.



Well, apparently this would be an intolerable violation of the right of everybody to carry any weapon they damned well like.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:

I can see the local antifa chapters piss their pants when the US Army deploys a series of lecturers... :lol:

Actually I’d pay to see that. :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:

I can see the local antifa chapters piss their pants when the US Army deploys a series of lecturers... :lol:

Actually I’d pay to see that. :lol:



:lol:

Sandy - aren't you a teacher ? In civvy life ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:

I can see the local antifa chapters piss their pants when the US Army deploys a series of lecturers... :lol:

Actually I’d pay to see that. :lol:



:lol:

Sandy - aren't you a teacher ? In civvy life ?

No, my brother is. Yank13 is a teacher


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Actually WHERE THE FUDGE is Yank13 on this thread??? He’s a gun-nut teacher who lives in Florida!!!

Tell us buddy - you want to wear a Glock to school assembly on Monday?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:

I can see the local antifa chapters piss their pants when the US Army deploys a series of lecturers... :lol:

Actually I’d pay to see that. :lol:



:lol:

Sandy - aren't you a teacher ? In civvy life ?

No, my brother is. Yank13 is a teacher



So is Obelixtm right - soldiers are too dumb to be teachers ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Actually WHERE THE FUDGE is Yank13 on this thread??? He’s a gun-nut teacher who lives in Florida!!!

Tell us buddy - you want to wear a Glock to school assembly on Monday?



Reloading his BAR clips, for fast action.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:

I can see the local antifa chapters piss their pants when the US Army deploys a series of lecturers... :lol:

Actually I’d pay to see that. :lol:



:lol:

Sandy - aren't you a teacher ? In civvy life ?

No, my brother is. Yank13 is a teacher



So is Obelixtm right - soldiers are too dumb to be teachers ?

There was a drive on here to get ex squaddies into teaching a few years ago. If nothing else the fat wee obnoxious cvnts would become fit as fvck and disciplined.

"You think Harold MacMillan is the answer.....? Because of your stupidity the whole class, at the speed of a thousand gazelles*, will run up that hill and each bring me a snowball. LAST 10 GO AGAIN!"



*I've never been sure why 1000 would be faster than 1 unless they're competitive gazelles.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:02 pm 
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OptimisticJock wrote:
There was a drive on here to get ex squaddies into teaching a few years ago. If nothing else the fat wee obnoxious cvnts would become fit as fvck and disciplined.

"You think Harold MacMillan is the answer.....? Because of your stupidity the whole class, at the speed of a thousand gazelles*, will run up that hill and each bring me a snowball. LAST 10 GO AGAIN!"



*I've never been sure why 1000 would be faster than 1 unless they're competitive gazelles.


:lol:

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Most soldiers are thick and not remotely qualified to be teachers. They would need a degree in specialist subjects for starters. Plus intensive weapons training a la special forces.

And most of the millions of teachers would not have anything to do with carrying and using a weapon.

The idea is ridiculous.....but hardly surprising coming from Trump and the NRA.

What is the problem with proper vetting as they do in many other countries, and getting rid of military style weapons for civilians.



Who will do the vetting ? The same FBI that ignored the Cruz reports ? Or the police that also played down his problems, or hid when he became a sudden HUGE problem ?

FYI - a single shot rifle kills just as efficiently as a semi-automatic or a fully automatic weapon. Sometimes more. In skilled hands they are in some circumstances even more lethal.
Banning AR15s will not solve the problem, taking care of mentally ill Americans just might be a decent start. And addressing their problems...

(For those raving and slavering now - read my views on issue of firearms to mental cases, mental evaluation, arms registry, etc. etc. A few pages ago.)

EDIT : How many teachers, acting as a "reaction force", would be needed at any one school ? Two ? Five ?
Not many, I guarantee.


In countries with effective gun control policies, the police are the vetting agency. Anyone with mental issues would have no chance of obtaining a licence, and a very slim chance of obtaining a weapon, even on the black market. The model is there, the Septics just have to develop the will to implement it.

When NZ changed its gun licencing laws, I didn't bother renewing my licence, because the hassle and cost became too much. I gave my guns to a mate who did have a licence and secure storage. I can still go hunting with him, so it is not a problem.

And yes, with a bolt action rifle, and controlled firing, I could take out a lot of people in a short time in a crowded place, but a high powered military style semi automatic (or fully automatic, if modified) has no place in civilian hands. I would be hampered by the limitations we have on magazine capacity for a start.

Read the report from the physician who has experience of dealing with gunshot wounds and why the damage from this AR 15 was unlike damage from other bullet wounds he's treated.

Until they ban these weapons and have effective vetting, massacres will continue. There are too many people with mental issues, with unfettered access to guns. Its why you need references from people in NZ in order to apply for a gun licence. The police will also check your storage facilities.

It can be fixed quite easily, but until the NRA is put in a box marked "terrorist organisation" it won't be.

And they have the cheek to go on about muslim terrorists!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Location: Chickenrunning...
"Run to that tree and bring me a leaf!!"

Squaddie comes back panting, with leaf.

"Wrong leaf, dummy! Go again!"


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:07 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
"Run to that tree and bring me a leaf!!"

Squaddie comes back panting, with leaf.

"Wrong leaf, dummy! Go again!"

:lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
"Run to that tree and bring me a leaf!!"

Squaddie comes back panting, with leaf.

"Wrong leaf, dummy! Go again!"


:lol:
I "my days" the correct term was "Pielvel !" (foreskin), not "Dummy!"

Just reminiscing.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:15 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:

In countries with effective gun control policies, the police are the vetting agency. Anyone with mental issues would have no chance of obtaining a licence, and a very slim chance of obtaining a weapon, even on the black market. The model is there, the Septics just have to develop the will to implement it.

When NZ changed its gun licencing laws, I didn't bother renewing my licence, because the hassle and cost became too much. I gave my guns to a mate who did have a licence and secure storage. I can still go hunting with him, so it is not a problem.

And yes, with a bolt action rifle, and controlled firing, I could take out a lot of people in a short time in a crowded place, but a high powered military style semi automatic (or fully automatic, if modified) has no place in civilian hands. I would be hampered by the limitations we have on magazine capacity for a start.

Read the report from the physician who has experience of dealing with gunshot wounds and why the damage from this AR 15 was unlike damage from other bullet wounds he's treated.

Until they ban these weapons and have effective vetting, massacres will continue. There are too many people with mental issues, with unfettered access to guns. Its why you need references from people in NZ in order to apply for a gun licence. The police will also check your storage facilities.

It can be fixed quite easily, but until the NRA is put in a box marked "terrorist organisation" it won't be.

And they have the cheek to go on about muslim terrorists!


I agree about the systems and the vetting and even the availability of semi-autos and autos. Systems are available, and can be implemented if the political (and administrative ) will were there.
I disagree mildly on caliber, weapons fokken HURT !.. All of them. I've seen many a violet protester run around protesting vehemently, with a hole or two from 5.56 NATO origin in his skin ..
But that aside, I agree IN PRINCIPLE with several aspects of gun control and vetting and even licensing. I would be even more strict, in ensuring that the applicant belongs to a well regulated militia, with legal implications for them and himself in the case of transgressions ... USE the constitution, do not oppose it ...

But then the relevant authorities and bodies have to step up, be counted and take responsibility. Like the police and FBI did not, in the Cruz case.

I cannot get on the case of the NRA, at this stage, it seems too much of a witch hunt. It might change, but this is premature imho.

EDIT : But ALWAYS, there must be restraint, in not overreacting, by State ...
Quote:
The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing.
John Adams.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Kiwias wrote:
You've just nailed Trump's master plan to recruit ex-military men as teachers

Looks like Trump is going to need a lot more wars.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Location: I. S. Of The Bronx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting

Quote:
Army Reserve Captain John Gaffaney tried to stop Hasan by charging him, but was mortally wounded before reaching him.[22] Civilian physician assistant Michael Cahill also tried to charge Hasan with a chair, but was shot and killed.[23] Army Reserve Specialist Logan Burnett tried to stop Hasan by throwing a folding table at him, but he was shot in the left hip, fell down, and crawled to a nearby cubicle.[24]

Was someone, I think Smee, talking about an offensive action while there was a shooter?

Also not that it was a military because the idea guns would deter someone from going on a killing spree is foolproof.

Or even the Dallas gunman who took out 5 cops!!


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