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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:24 pm 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
I made my concerns for where Scotland are known in the Autumn, I will not repeat them there.

Whatever happens at the weekend, Scotland are on a gradual upward trend. There will be setbacks as the players and coaches learn the realities of not being everyone's whipping boys (I am just astonished that it's been admitted players believed their own publicity before the Welsh game and their heads were not in the right place). I think a big factor in Scotland's future will be Richard Cockerill. He has brought a dose of reality, and a hard edge, to Edinburgh who are now not just winning when they manage to unleash the panache, but are also grinding out last minute wins. The Edinburgh pack had formidable individuals, but even lacking many first choice players is now playing close to their ability, and what is more doing so as a pack. If Cockerill continues with this, you can't imagine that as an SRU employee he'd not be used to help the national team. Even so, what he has brought to Edinburgh has improved the Scottish pack and will continue to do so.


I'm astonished that they were honest enough to admit it, but far from astonished that it happened. I think this kind of thing happens a lot more often than players and coaches are willing to fess up to.

It's a balancing act with Scotland players. You have to give them self-belief (Matt Williams' approach was to tell them they were crap, which promptly came true) but not too much.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:24 pm 
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We intend to be imperious.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:27 pm 
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I think Robert the Bruce had a try once.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:29 pm 
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globus wrote:
I think Robert the Bruce had a try once.


That was Wallace. Bruce added the conversion.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:29 pm 
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But no conversion. You got there before me!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
piquant wrote:
A few things went wrong with the Scotland defence last year. England had worked on some structural flaws in how Scotland defended which was allowing them huge momentum, and than on the back of that (a) the Scottish defenders started trying to solve the problems on an individual basis and not as a team which badly exposed them, maybe even more than the flaws in their system had, and (b) they started picking up injuries which only made the problems noted in (a) worse. Basically across the board it was a horror show, and I wouldn't expect that would replicate at test level.


Nobody is claiming Scotland defended well last year. But it would be unreasonably harsh to allege that the injuries we sustained didn't have an impact on the scoreline. Half our back line were playing out of position by the time the game reached the 30 min mark. That's always likely to affect your defensive structure.


On the other hand, your midfield laid out the welcome mat for JJ within 3 minutes of the game starting, before you had sustained any injuries, and continued to lay it out in the exact same fashion a further 3 times before half-time. But perhaps the first time was because they had spontaneously developed prophetic powers and were anticipating the horrendous dicking lying in wait for them


I'm still no nearer to understanding the point you have been trying to make for the last 4 hours with this stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:31 pm 
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globus wrote:
We shall banish, once and for all, Blàr Allt nam Bànag.

With a Stirling effort.


Is that Gaelic for "By the Rivers of Babylon"?

In which case, I whole heartedly concur.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:32 pm 
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I think the Scots train with a haggis for a ball.

Sadly they can only do it in short bursts.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:34 pm 
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OptimisticJock wrote:
Ha ha ha ha ha
Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
So tell me what you want, what you really, really want
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If you wanna be my lover, you gotta get with my friends
(Gotta get with my friends)
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Say, you can handle my love, are you for real
(Are you for real)
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If you really bug me then I'll say goodbye
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So tell me what you want, what you really, really want
I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha)
I wanna really, really, really wanna zigazig ah
If you wanna be my lover, you gotta get with my friends
(Gotta get with my friends)
Make it last forever, friendship never ends
If you wanna be my lover, you have got to give
(You've got to give)
Taking is too easy, but that's the way it is
So, here's a story from A to Z
You wanna get with me, you gotta listen carefully
We got Em in the place who likes it in your face
You got G like MC who likes it on a
Easy V doesn't come for free, she's a real lady
And as for me, ha you'll see
Slam your body down and wind it all around
Slam your body down and wind it all around
If you wanna be my lover, you gotta get with my friends
(Gotta get with my friends)
Make it last forever, friendship never ends
If you wanna be my lover, you have got to give
(You've got to give)
Taking is too easy, but that's the way it is
If you wanna be my lover
You gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta
Slam, slam, slam, slam (make it last forever)
Slam your body down and wind it all around
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Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
Slam your body down and wind it all around
Slam your body down and zigazig ah
If you wanna be my lover

:lol:

VERY....impressive contribution.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:36 pm 
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slick wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
piquant wrote:
A few things went wrong with the Scotland defence last year. England had worked on some structural flaws in how Scotland defended which was allowing them huge momentum, and than on the back of that (a) the Scottish defenders started trying to solve the problems on an individual basis and not as a team which badly exposed them, maybe even more than the flaws in their system had, and (b) they started picking up injuries which only made the problems noted in (a) worse. Basically across the board it was a horror show, and I wouldn't expect that would replicate at test level.


Nobody is claiming Scotland defended well last year. But it would be unreasonably harsh to allege that the injuries we sustained didn't have an impact on the scoreline. Half our back line were playing out of position by the time the game reached the 30 min mark. That's always likely to affect your defensive structure.


On the other hand, your midfield laid out the welcome mat for JJ within 3 minutes of the game starting, before you had sustained any injuries, and continued to lay it out in the exact same fashion a further 3 times before half-time. But perhaps the first time was because they had spontaneously developed prophetic powers and were anticipating the horrendous dicking lying in wait for them


I'm still no nearer to understanding the point you have been trying to make for the last 4 hours with this stuff.


That your defence would still have been garbage without the injuries


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:36 pm 
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croyals wrote:
... I would rather have Brown in my side than Hogg...


Image


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
slick wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
piquant wrote:
A few things went wrong with the Scotland defence last year. England had worked on some structural flaws in how Scotland defended which was allowing them huge momentum, and than on the back of that (a) the Scottish defenders started trying to solve the problems on an individual basis and not as a team which badly exposed them, maybe even more than the flaws in their system had, and (b) they started picking up injuries which only made the problems noted in (a) worse. Basically across the board it was a horror show, and I wouldn't expect that would replicate at test level.


Nobody is claiming Scotland defended well last year. But it would be unreasonably harsh to allege that the injuries we sustained didn't have an impact on the scoreline. Half our back line were playing out of position by the time the game reached the 30 min mark. That's always likely to affect your defensive structure.


On the other hand, your midfield laid out the welcome mat for JJ within 3 minutes of the game starting, before you had sustained any injuries, and continued to lay it out in the exact same fashion a further 3 times before half-time. But perhaps the first time was because they had spontaneously developed prophetic powers and were anticipating the horrendous dicking lying in wait for them


I'm still no nearer to understanding the point you have been trying to make for the last 4 hours with this stuff.


That your defence would still have been garbage without the injuries


If it hadn't been for the injuries England would still have won. Just not by 40 points.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Be interesting how many SHers will post on this.

It really is a massive game for both sides.

History and pride figure highly. I hope it will be a stunner.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Ymlaen yr Alban!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Doc Rob wrote:

If it hadn't been for the injuries England would still have won. Just not by 40 points.


If is always a tricky game, maybe England would have won by 50, maybe Scotland would have agreed on a system out on the field and kept the score within 20, nobody knows. Injuries were a big part of the problem last year, but they weren't the only problem, the system being used was getting exploited, and players were then under pressure and too often doing their own thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Gwenno wrote:
Ymlaen yr Alban!

Right. Offa's dyke will be rebuilt. Only English speakers will be allowed into the motherland.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:45 pm 
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This thread certainly grew legs in the past few days!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:46 pm 
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globus wrote:
But no conversion. You got there before me!

The decider was played in a neutral venue (Ireland).

globus wrote:
We intend to be imperious.

You'll need us to run it for you then. Explains why you need a crim coach.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:47 pm 
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There is little doubt that injuries caused Scotland some problems last year.

Even so, evidence from the Wales and France games this year hardly makes the case for the Scottish defense.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Smutley wrote:
globus wrote:
But no conversion. You got there before me!

The decider was played in a neutral venue (Ireland).

globus wrote:
We intend to be imperious.

You'll need us to run it for you then. Explains why you need a crim coach.

We know how to plunder.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:05 pm 
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globus wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
Ymlaen yr Alban!

Right. Offa's dyke will be rebuilt. Only English speakers will be allowed into the motherland.

Clawdd Offa to you, butt.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:09 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
There is little doubt that injuries caused Scotland some problems last year.

Even so, evidence from the Wales and France games this year hardly makes the case for the Scottish defense.


There was also the small matter of being down to 14 men for ten minutes right at the start of the match - that is hugely disruptive.
Last year's result was a freak. The one encouraging point was that we still scored 3 tries despite the overall shambles.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Surely if you build the bloody thing you get to name it?! If you want a clawdd build your own bloody clawdd.

I don’t know, neighbours...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:31 pm 
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We just need to remind the players that Eddie is a crim and they’re our bunnies, jobs a good un


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:38 pm 
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England just need to play a possession game, not go for territory. It might look like a grind but the penalties still come, the England score will grow and Scotland will start taking more and more risks.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Chips wrote:
England just need to play a possession game, not go for territory. It might look like a grind but the penalties still come, the England score will grow and Scotland will start taking more and more risks.

Scotland will take enough risks. High risk stuff is the way they play - hence the erratic scorelines.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Gwenno wrote:
Ymlaen yr Alban!


https://youtu.be/CWCycC0P5AM ?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:43 pm 
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message #2527204 wrote:
Chips wrote:
England just need to play a possession game, not go for territory. It might look like a grind but the penalties still come, the England score will grow and Scotland will start taking more and more risks.

Scotland will take enough risks. High risk stuff is the way they play - hence the erratic scorelines.




There's risk and there's madness. England need to starve them of possession and they well soon be into full loon mode.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Chips wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Chips wrote:
England just need to play a possession game, not go for territory. It might look like a grind but the penalties still come, the England score will grow and Scotland will start taking more and more risks.

Scotland will take enough risks. High risk stuff is the way they play - hence the erratic scorelines.




There's risk and there's madness. England need to starve them of possession and they well soon be into full loon mode.


Total nonsense, even by your standards

We (Eng) are no longer good at the grind 'em down and kick the penalties game. We ARE good with quick ball, varying the point of attack and using the speed of foot and passing skill in both backs and forwards.

I do agree that keeping the ball is a good tactic, but giving the ball to Russell in a pressured situation worries the Scots on this thread more....


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
croyals wrote:
Going back a bit and this could backfire spectacularly, but I would rather have Brown in my side than Hogg...


Tell us why you'd rather have Mr Angry No I Won't Pass the Ball ahead of the Player of 6N for the last two years.

Because although Hogg may not display anger, he displays plum?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImYlu7THs9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZ-PU77gzk


You had go back a few years as since these incidents he has got married, become a father, been given some straight talking by various coaches and has straightened himself out. He's still only 25 but has outgrown his petulant phase. Mike Brown on the other hand is still Mr Angry at 32.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:00 pm 
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ManInTheBar wrote:
Total nonsense, even by your standards


Quote:
I do agree that keeping the ball is a good tactic



From ad hominem to agreement in one post. Rare but not unknown.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
croyals wrote:
Going back a bit and this could backfire spectacularly, but I would rather have Brown in my side than Hogg...


Tell us why you'd rather have Mr Angry No I Won't Pass the Ball ahead of the Player of 6N for the last two years.

Because although Hogg may not display anger, he displays plum?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImYlu7THs9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZ-PU77gzk


You had go back a few years as since these incidents he has got married, become a father, been given some straight talking by various coaches and has straightened himself out. He's still only 25 but has outgrown his petulant phase. Mike Brown on the other hand is still Mr Angry at 32.


Point of order... he's now Mr Laughy


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
croyals wrote:
Going back a bit and this could backfire spectacularly, but I would rather have Brown in my side than Hogg...

Tell us why you'd rather have Mr Angry No I Won't Pass the Ball ahead of the Player of 6N for the last two years.

Brown can tackle


So can Hogg.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
croyals wrote:
Going back a bit and this could backfire spectacularly, but I would rather have Brown in my side than Hogg...

Tell us why you'd rather have Mr Angry No I Won't Pass the Ball ahead of the Player of 6N for the last two years.

Brown can tackle


So can Hogg.


Sure


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
frillage wrote:
Yeah, I am in the Slick camp you are being a bit thick. It is fairly clearly explained in my post, try working it out yourself.

Okay, let me try - Scottish fans were unhappy with a reliable backfield defender for years and are now happy with an electric attacker. The argument, therefore, is that England fans would be happier replacing a proven test performer with someone more exciting in attack than they are now, stuck as they are with the feeble crumbs of being two-time 6 Nations champions, Grand Slam winners, and having lost less than 5% of their tests since the start of 2016. That about it?


Imagine how much better they could be with a better full back.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
frillage wrote:
Yeah, I am in the Slick camp you are being a bit thick. It is fairly clearly explained in my post, try working it out yourself.

Okay, let me try - Scottish fans were unhappy with a reliable backfield defender for years and are now happy with an electric attacker. The argument, therefore, is that England fans would be happier replacing a proven test performer with someone more exciting in attack than they are now, stuck as they are with the feeble crumbs of being two-time 6 Nations champions, Grand Slam winners, and having lost less than 5% of their tests since the start of 2016. That about it?


Imagine how much better they could be with a better full back.


Don't really need to


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
croyals wrote:
Going back a bit and this could backfire spectacularly, but I would rather have Brown in my side than Hogg...

Tell us why you'd rather have Mr Angry No I Won't Pass the Ball ahead of the Player of 6N for the last two years.

Brown can tackle


So can Hogg.

Sure


Glad we agree. So both can tackle, Hogg is the better attacker, which leaves Brown (a bit) better under the high ball.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:07 pm 
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You're really going to commit to this "England should be more like Scotland" position, aren't you?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
You're really going to commit to this "England should be more like Scotland" position, aren't you?


I envy the status of 'plucky underdog'


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Difference for me is Hogg will win you games but Mike Brown won't lose you them.

England don't need to rely on one or two players the same way Scotland do so Brown suits them and Hogg suits us.


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