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Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:33 am
by RuggaBugga
Gordon Bennett wrote:Love me a bit of Ross. He really puts it all on the line for the team. Still increasing his reputation and moving up the list of greatest Kiwi batsmen.
He'd already be second to Crowe no?

I'm still blown away by that innings hours later.

To do that chasing 335, after coming in at 2/2, on one leg was phenomenal.

I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.

That big 200 against Aus and Martin Crowe mentoring him really seemed to turn it around. Gutsy player.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:36 am
by The Native
RuggaBugga wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:Love me a bit of Ross. He really puts it all on the line for the team. Still increasing his reputation and moving up the list of greatest Kiwi batsmen.
He'd already be second to Crowe no?

I'm still blown away by that innings hours later.

To do that chasing 335, after coming in at 2/2, on one leg was phenomenal.

I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.

That big 200 against Aus and Martin Crowe mentoring him really seemed to turn it around. Gutsy player.
Doesn't Fleming have the most runs ever by a Black Cap?

Heard on the radio Taylor is averaging 89 at home this season. That's pretty good.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:46 am
by BillW
RuggaBugga wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:Love me a bit of Ross. He really puts it all on the line for the team. Still increasing his reputation and moving up the list of greatest Kiwi batsmen.
He'd already be second to Crowe no?

I'm still blown away by that innings hours later.

To do that chasing 335, after coming in at 2/2, on one leg was phenomenal.

I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.

That big 200 against Aus and Martin Crowe mentoring him really seemed to turn it around. Gutsy player.
He's seems to get better and better.
That was the type of innings that only happens in dreams.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:48 am
by Gazzamonster
RuggaBugga wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:Love me a bit of Ross. He really puts it all on the line for the team. Still increasing his reputation and moving up the list of greatest Kiwi batsmen.
He'd already be second to Crowe no?

I'm still blown away by that innings hours later.

To do that chasing 335, after coming in at 2/2, on one leg was phenomenal.

I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.

That big 200 against Aus and Martin Crowe mentoring him really seemed to turn it around. Gutsy player.

I think his eye issue was a lot worse than he let on. The fact that he was having trouble picking swing and spin - and yet he was still averaging high 40's......he is probably a gutsiest player NZ have ever produced.

I think he will be one of those players that when he retires people will realise what NZC have lost.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:51 am
by TheDocForgotHisLogon
RuggaBugga wrote:I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.
This. :thumbup:

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:52 am
by RuggaBugga
The Native wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:Love me a bit of Ross. He really puts it all on the line for the team. Still increasing his reputation and moving up the list of greatest Kiwi batsmen.
He'd already be second to Crowe no?

I'm still blown away by that innings hours later.

To do that chasing 335, after coming in at 2/2, on one leg was phenomenal.

I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.

That big 200 against Aus and Martin Crowe mentoring him really seemed to turn it around. Gutsy player.
Doesn't Fleming have the most runs ever by a Black Cap?

Heard on the radio Taylor is averaging 89 at home this season. That's pretty good.
Yeah but thats due the number of matches he played.

Taylor has a far superior average in both forms of the game (haven't looked at t20 because who cares) and a shitload more centuries as well. Fleming always struggled to kick on after reaching 50.

Edit: Add the fact that he's done that batting virtually his entire career at four which gives him less time in limited over cricket.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:55 am
by RuggaBugga
Gazzamonster wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:Love me a bit of Ross. He really puts it all on the line for the team. Still increasing his reputation and moving up the list of greatest Kiwi batsmen.
He'd already be second to Crowe no?

I'm still blown away by that innings hours later.

To do that chasing 335, after coming in at 2/2, on one leg was phenomenal.

I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.

That big 200 against Aus and Martin Crowe mentoring him really seemed to turn it around. Gutsy player.

I think his eye issue was a lot worse than he let on. The fact that he was having trouble picking swing and spin - and yet he was still averaging high 40's......he is probably a gutsiest player NZ have ever produced.

I think he will be one of those players that when he retires people will realise what NZC have lost.
Yeah true on both counts.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:15 pm
by ovalball
RuggaBugga wrote:
Gazzamonster wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:Love me a bit of Ross. He really puts it all on the line for the team. Still increasing his reputation and moving up the list of greatest Kiwi batsmen.
He'd already be second to Crowe no?

I'm still blown away by that innings hours later.

To do that chasing 335, after coming in at 2/2, on one leg was phenomenal.

I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.

That big 200 against Aus and Martin Crowe mentoring him really seemed to turn it around. Gutsy player.
I think his eye issue was a lot worse than he let on. The fact that he was having trouble picking swing and spin - and yet he was still averaging high 40's......he is probably a gutsiest player NZ have ever produced.

I think he will be one of those players that when he retires people will realise what NZC have lost.
Yeah true on both counts.

He's a high quality bat - and his batting is very easy on the eye.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:28 pm
by Tehui
The Native wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:Love me a bit of Ross. He really puts it all on the line for the team. Still increasing his reputation and moving up the list of greatest Kiwi batsmen.
He'd already be second to Crowe no?

I'm still blown away by that innings hours later.

To do that chasing 335, after coming in at 2/2, on one leg was phenomenal.

I was pretty critical of him when he was struggling a few years ago and thought he was shot mentally but I'm pretty glad to be scarfing down the humble pie.

That big 200 against Aus and Martin Crowe mentoring him really seemed to turn it around. Gutsy player.
Doesn't Fleming have the most runs ever by a Black Cap?

Heard on the radio Taylor is averaging 89 at home this season. That's pretty good.
ODIs:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/newzealan ... ;type=team

Test matches:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/newzealan ... ;type=team

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:11 pm
by mr bungle
BBB wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
BBB wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:Tuisi, tuisi.
New Blues hooker?
It was a stupid thing said by one of the commentators during the recent test series when Taylor made a ton - saying 'too easy' but in a Samoan accent to add a touch of casual racism. The following morning the Hauraki breakfast radio spent 15 minutes or so taking the piss out of it.
:thumbup:
Be careful JCG, that you know all the facts... Cumming said that in respect of Martin Crowe’s sometimes nickname for Taylor. Something about saying it to Taylor when he was battling form, when he was was in the zone he made things look so easy.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:21 pm
by Jay Cee Gee
mr bungle wrote:
BBB wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
BBB wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:Tuisi, tuisi.
New Blues hooker?
It was a stupid thing said by one of the commentators during the recent test series when Taylor made a ton - saying 'too easy' but in a Samoan accent to add a touch of casual racism. The following morning the Hauraki breakfast radio spent 15 minutes or so taking the piss out of it.
:thumbup:
Be careful JCG, that you know all the facts... Cumming said that in respect of Martin Crowe’s sometimes nickname for Taylor. Something about saying it to Taylor when he was battling form, when he was was in the zone he made things look so easy.

Well, without wanting to go all SJW etc, that still sounds a wee bit racist on Crowe's part. I'm sure it didn't bother Taylor and it's not my place to be offended for someone else though, so fair enough.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:04 pm
by Andalu
I'd imagine lots of poms went to bed when 400 was looking distinctly possible for them, then woke up to this. :D

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:10 pm
by Andalu
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Andalu wrote:I'd imagine lots of poms went to bed when 400 was looking distinctly possible for them, then woke up to this. :D
Yep. Probably a dozen of them at least.
Senarky. :roll:

Around midnight UK was when they were peaking, the collapse was just after midnight. Even then it took an heroic effort to chase their total.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:36 pm
by Rowdy
Andalu wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Andalu wrote:I'd imagine lots of poms went to bed when 400 was looking distinctly possible for them, then woke up to this. :D
Yep. Probably a dozen of them at least.
Senarky. :roll:

Around midnight UK was when they were peaking, the collapse was just after midnight. Even then it took an heroic effort to chase their total.
You're totally, like, harshing the vibe, dude.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:43 pm
by RuggaBugga
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Andalu wrote:I'd imagine lots of poms went to bed when 400 was looking distinctly possible for them, then woke up to this. :D
Yep. Probably a dozen of them at least.
Yeah they probably all just stayed up all night on a weekday.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:49 pm
by mr bungle
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
BBB wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
BBB wrote: New Blues hooker?
It was a stupid thing said by one of the commentators during the recent test series when Taylor made a ton - saying 'too easy' but in a Samoan accent to add a touch of casual racism. The following morning the Hauraki breakfast radio spent 15 minutes or so taking the piss out of it.
:thumbup:
Be careful JCG, that you know all the facts... Cumming said that in respect of Martin Crowe’s sometimes nickname for Taylor. Something about saying it to Taylor when he was battling form, when he was was in the zone he made things look so easy.

Well, without wanting to go all SJW etc, that still sounds a wee bit racist on Crowe's part. I'm sure it didn't bother Taylor and it's not my place to be offended for someone else though, so fair enough.
Crowe was his mentor, you berk. They were extremely close. :?

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:54 pm
by True Blue
The unsung hero of all of this is the eye surgeon. His form has certainly improved since his eye surgery.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:55 pm
by argus
Would be interesting to see how guys like Crowe would have done with these newer bigger bats

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 pm
by Kiwias
Did anyone see the tweet from Stephen Fleming?

Image

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:34 am
by RuggaBugga
Kiwias wrote:Did anyone see the tweet from Stephen Fleming?

Image
:thumbup:

I wouldn't mind seeing him brought into our setup at some stage. He was a great captain. I always remember the two points field to Damien Martyn.

I guess he's minting it in the IPL though.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:37 am
by True Blue
Isn't he the premier IPL coach or something? He'd be making a packet.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:52 am
by Jay Cee Gee
mr bungle wrote: Crowe was his mentor, you berk. They were extremely close. :?

Er...yeah, I know - that's why I said I'm sure it didn't bother Taylor.

Having said that, and with the qualifier that I doubt many would find it offensive or a big deal, there's a bit of a difference between Crowe saying to Taylor and Cumming saying it on national broadcast. You can get away with some jokes with your mates or partner that you might not get away with to your boss or a stranger. So the fact that Crowe used to say something to Taylor in private doesn't necesarily excuse Cumming saying it to the wider public.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:52 am
by mrbrownstone
It's gotten lost a bit among Taylor's great innings, but Moeen Ali dropping a sitter off Latham was a huge moment. Would have been 100/4 at that point and probably game over. If England go on to lose the series, they'll look back on that moment (and the collapse, obviously).

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:00 am
by Dan54.
SecretAgentMan wrote:
The Native wrote:Hell of a game. Hell of a series so far.

Well done both teams.

:thumbup:
Yep, it's been great fun. Williamson showed big balls putting England in on that deck.
Naa Morgan said he would of put NZ in as well, seems the deck was better than either team thought.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:52 am
by The Native
Dan54. wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:
The Native wrote:Hell of a game. Hell of a series so far.

Well done both teams.

:thumbup:
Yep, it's been great fun. Williamson showed big balls putting England in on that deck.
Naa Morgan said he would of put NZ in as well, seems the deck was better than either team thought.
From what I recall, they both thought there would be some juice in it in the first five overs.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:05 am
by mr bungle
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote: Crowe was his mentor, you berk. They were extremely close. :?

Er...yeah, I know - that's why I said I'm sure it didn't bother Taylor.

Having said that, and with the qualifier that I doubt many would find it offensive or a big deal, there's a bit of a difference between Crowe saying to Taylor and Cumming saying it on national broadcast. You can get away with some jokes with your mates or partner that you might not get away with to your boss or a stranger. So the fact that Crowe used to say something to Taylor in private doesn't necesarily excuse Cumming saying it to the wider public.
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:12 am
by Jay Cee Gee
mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:25 am
by mr bungle
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.
I was sure joe punter making such a sensitive claim about perceived racism must have been unaware of their close to father/son relationship.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:36 am
by eugenius
The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?

This when at the time our top two golfers were Maori .

Very not cool.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:45 am
by RuggaBugga
Oh cool a race shitfight :roll:

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:59 am
by Jay Cee Gee
mr bungle wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.
I was sure joe punter making such a sensitive claim about perceived racism must have been unaware of their close to father/son relationship.
I was aware, which is why I said I was sure he wasn't offended. Nor was I btw, it was harmless but I don't really see how making jokes about how another language sounds funny isn't a wee bit racist.

I'm not actually criticising Crowe, or Cumming for that matter - it's more a WTF, than actually being offended.

For reference, I made a joke about Asians eating cats the other day which was wayyyyyy more racist than saying Tuisi, Tuisi.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:00 am
by eugenius
Nah ...

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:23 am
by mr bungle
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
:uhoh: :yawn: Take your race preciousness elsewhere.
No one was forcing you to defend Martin Crowe's honour either, dude.
I was sure joe punter making such a sensitive claim about perceived racism must have been unaware of their close to father/son relationship.
I was aware, which is why I said I was sure he wasn't offended. Nor was I btw, it was harmless but I don't really see how making jokes about how another language sounds funny isn't a wee bit racist.

I'm not actually criticising Crowe, or Cumming for that matter - it's more a WTF, than actually being offended.
Jay Cee Gee wrote: that still sounds a wee bit racist on Crowe's part.
Just shut the fuck up.

Good, ta.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:49 am
by Tehui
eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?
It wasn't the smartest thing Crowe ever said. It's best forgotten.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:07 pm
by badmannotinjapan
Tehui wrote:
eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?
It wasn't the smartest thing Crowe ever said. It's best forgotten.
Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:29 pm
by WoodlandsRFC
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Tehui wrote:
eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?
It wasn't the smartest thing Crowe ever said. It's best forgotten.
Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Poorly worded? What else could he have been meaning? Cricket to be fair, just isn't a sport that is popular with Maori or Pacific Islanders, it has nought to do with their ability to concentrate.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:56 pm
by booze
eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

.
That’s why he was our best batsmen.

Sounds like a load of shit. You can take the piss out of people except when their skin is darker.

Bullshit

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:56 pm
by badmannotinjapan
WoodlandsRFC wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Tehui wrote:
eugenius wrote:The trouble is Crowe had serious form .

Remember when asked why there weren’t more Maori and PI cricketers and he said ‘they aren’t good at concentrating over long periods ‘ ?
It wasn't the smartest thing Crowe ever said. It's best forgotten.
Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Poorly worded? What else could he have been meaning? Cricket to be fair, just isn't a sport that is popular with Maori or Pacific Islanders, it has nought to do with their ability to concentrate.
Talk to Crowe and Rush. They both said it.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:06 pm
by deadduck
I reckon it's far more likely that the lack of top class Polynesian cricketers has more to do with access to good cricket coaching at a young age. There's heaps in the club scene, but for many it's deficiencies in the technical aspects of the game that prevents them from reaching the highest level.
For those that do end up in top sporting schools, rugby is more popular and has better pathways to success.

Re: NZ vs England - ODI Series

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:19 pm
by Gordon Bennett
There's definitely some ingrained institutional racism against Maori & pacific islanders in cricket that I've seen perpetuated at club level at the very least. That image of "they aren't good at concentrating over long periods" - i.e. heavily implying they're lazy or won't put the work in - seems to follow them around, regardless of their work ethic. A number of top quality players are ultimately lost to the game as a result.

That's why it annoys me when people who should know better continue to use those stereotypes in normal conversation.

I also wonder why the treatment of Ross Taylor, given his immense value to NZC and his position as one of NZ's best has been consistently shabbier than some of his peers.
badmannotinjapan wrote:Eric Rush on Sports Cafe stated the very fact. How many Maori/PI play cricket and make it through to higher honours? Murphy Su'a, Adam Parore, D.Tuff...now Rosco. Poorly worded maybe but not inaccurate.
Jesse Ryder too.