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No one wants you here, Warren. Bog off back to Cardiff.harry 22 wrote:hogg is the only scottish player i'd pick over his Irish counterpart
Er, yeah. I may have gone full nerd there.Seneca of the Night wrote:.Good post. Very informative.
This does genuinely annoy me. Yes, we'd all prefer to field a team entirely composed of players who grew up and learned all their rugby in Scotland, but virtually nobody fields only home-grown players (Argentina the notable exception).
Let's look at the team which started v England:
1. Reid - Scottish born & raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
2. McInally - Scottish born & raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
3. Berhgan - NZ born & raised, grandparent qualified.
4. Gilchrist - Scottish born & raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
5. Gray - Scottish born & raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
6. Barclay - Born in HK, Scottish raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
7. Watson - England born & raised, grandparent qualified, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
8. Wilson - England born & raised, grandparent qualified, brought through as pro player in England.
9. Laidlaw - Scottish born & raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
10. Russell - Scottish born & raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
11. Sean Maitland - NZ born & raised, grandparent qualified.
12. Pete Horne - Scottish born & raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
13. Huw Jones - Scottish born, England raised, brought through as a pro player in South Africa.
14. Tommy Seymour - USA born, USA & Ireland raised, parent qualified, brought through as a pro player in Ireland.
15. Stuart Hogg - Scottish born & raised, brought through as a pro player in Scotland.
I make that 8 players who are Scottish by any measure you care to use. Barclay is Scottish in every respect save birthplace. Watson qualifies by grandparents, but is well known to have grown up being taken to Murrayfield to support Scotland. So that's 10/15 who were never realistically going to represent anyone else.
Of the remaining five, Jones is Scots born (unarguable) and although Ireland would have a claim on Seymour, his mother is Scottish. The only 'dodgy' players are Wilson, Berghan and Maitland. Wilson has now been in Glasgow for 8 years, and Berghan is third choice (though to be fair the first choice is Nel). Pretty much every Tier 1 side has at least 2-3 players with questionable ties to the country. The Ireland side for this weekend has two who qualified on residency.
Doc, can I borrow that to respond to Clive?Doc Rob wrote:No one wants you here, Warren. Bog off back to Cardiff.harry 22 wrote:hogg is the only scottish player i'd pick over his Irish counterpart
But of course.Lenny wrote:Doc, can I borrow that to respond to Clive?Doc Rob wrote:No one wants you here, Warren. Bog off back to Cardiff.harry 22 wrote:hogg is the only scottish player i'd pick over his Irish counterpart
If we want to do anything of note in the 6N, we have to start showing up for away games. A win is a big ask, but we have to be up for it and ask questions of the Irish. I can take a loss, but not if we look gutless.Bear wrote:Ireland are relentlessly efficient, consistent and, frankly, good at winning games of rugby. This is Gregor’s toughest test in my mind. More difficult than NZ and England at home. However, if Scotland can maintain the intensity, accuracy and skill levels of the first 40 v England, and ramp it up (i.e. be better) in the second 40, then there’s a game. Big ask. Probably too big.
Ireland are quality. I see a few commentators wrote off the performance against Italy. Some of the rugby in the first 60 was just faultless IMO. Italy are off the pace, but at home and in the first part of games, they can be very difficult to break down. Ireland did it with ridiculous ease.
I wrote Scotland off against England; the away record suggests the same this weekend. But I think they will turn up. It might not be enough to win, but a good performance and a close game would be a positive step forward. A repeat of Cardiff/Twickers, and its BAU.
Haha same here. After the pish served up in Cardiff I vowed I'd never pay to see another Toony coached Scotland team. Took a while Vs France to change my mind but one Calcutta Cup later and he's the new messiah again (sort of, still think we'll get well beat tomorrow).Lorthern Nights wrote:We are awesome, complete world beaters.
Scotland at a canter.
PS
I reserve the right to ask for a complete overhaul of Scottish rugby, much talk of a need for 3rd pro team and immediate sacking of all and sundry in the event of an unexpected loss. There is absolutely no middle ground to be had in terms of my mood with the national team.
I think a lot comes down to whether Toonie's tactics pay off or not. Against Wales, they didn't. Against France and England, he found their achilles heel and got the players to execute the plan.Steamin Beamin wrote:Haha same here. After the pish served up in Cardiff I vowed I'd never pay to see another Toony coached Scotland team. Took a while Vs France to change my mind but one Calcutta Cup later and he's the new messiah again (sort of, still think we'll get well beat tomorrow).Lorthern Nights wrote:We are awesome, complete world beaters.
Scotland at a canter.
PS
I reserve the right to ask for a complete overhaul of Scottish rugby, much talk of a need for 3rd pro team and immediate sacking of all and sundry in the event of an unexpected loss. There is absolutely no middle ground to be had in terms of my mood with the national team.
Just as I said before the England game: as much of this as possible, if you please. We don't handle the favourites tag at all well and tend to perform best when given no chance whatsoever.goose81 wrote:I think we are going to hockey them tbh, 15-20 points. mocker gods come at me
Yup, will be very different conditions to what they are used to on the Cote d'Scotstoun.nardol wrote:Ireland by 14.
Slippery conditions will kill scotlands chances.
They didn't come off too well in the collisions either.CM11 wrote:Scotland's problem against Wales wasn't the gameplan. It was nearly all down to handling errors.
Are the Irish Press playing tomorrow or are the Ireland rugby team? f**king hell.. I missed that announcement. Gerry Thornley the swaggering full back. Francis back in 2nd row. Could be a humdinger alright.I like haggis wrote:Happily, the Irish press are already speaking about England and Eddie Jones.
If the team show up thinking about the GS Paddy's Day decider again I think we could have some joy.
Watching Carberry live at 15 for Leinster, he's very vocal and does look to organize the defense. Not everyone listens to him though.jezzer wrote:....
My concern on the defensive side is a leadership one. Outside of Sexton in the backline, none of Aki, Ringrose, Earls or Stockdale strike me as vocal alpha types who will organise and communicate. We really miss Henshaw, Payne and Farrell in that respect. Kearney is vocal, but he isn't always on hand to move guys into place. I am a massive Ringer fan and defensively I think he's been very sound in general, but he leads with example and work ethic rather than being a voice for the team. In the second half, if we have Carbery and Larmour in, I'd be even more nervous about that defensive communication. They're all so young and not used to being the leaders.
On the attack side, I think we'll be even better than before. Wales couldn't win the collisions or set piece and Scotland won't either. We'll score enough points to win it if our D can keep its shape.
Have you mixed the team up with the "press"?I like haggis wrote:Happily, the Irish press are already speaking about England and Eddie Jones.
If the team show up thinking about the GS Paddy's Day decider again I think we could have some joy.
Can’t really recall to what this refers. Laidlaw is the least likely member of the squad to be chavvy, TBH. Wilson, definitely. Reid, perhaps. Not seeing it from Laidlaw.Sissyfuss wrote:Are the Irish Press playing tomorrow or are the Ireland rugby team? f**king hell.. I missed that announcement. Gerry Thornley the swaggering full back. Francis back in 2nd row. Could be a humdinger alright.I like haggis wrote:Happily, the Irish press are already speaking about England and Eddie Jones.
If the team show up thinking about the GS Paddy's Day decider again I think we could have some joy.
Anyway, any casual perusal of the Irish press says that if we wipe the floor with you we could sew up the Championship tomorrow. I think that is far far far far far far far more insulting and should be on the Scotch dressing room wall.
I cant imagine after Laidlaw's chaviness last year that the Irish chaps will be taking this game lightly.
You don’t think the players are affected by the press? The media were certainly a factor in our drubbing in Cardiff - the SRU admitted as much afterwards. The players were talked up and had started believing their own hype.Trostan wrote:Have you mixed the team up with the "press"?I like haggis wrote:Happily, the Irish press are already speaking about England and Eddie Jones.
If the team show up thinking about the GS Paddy's Day decider again I think we could have some joy.
The press have to fill column inches
The team has to beat the Scots.
That was a big chunk of it, we were probably the better team in the first half, had tonnes of possession but knocked on every time we got into Welsh 22.CM11 wrote:Scotland's problem against Wales wasn't the gameplan. It was nearly all down to handling errors.
I think we’re a bit further down the devuelopmuent road than you, and have learned a lot of very painful lessons in relation to complacency and over confidence. Your performance against England will have focussed the players and management’s minds, if focus was needed.Doc Rob wrote:You don’t think the players are affected by the press? The media were certainly a factor in our drubbing in Cardiff - the SRU admitted as much afterwards. The players were talked up and had started believing their own hype.Trostan wrote:Have you mixed the team up with the "press"?I like haggis wrote:Happily, the Irish press are already speaking about England and Eddie Jones.
If the team show up thinking about the GS Paddy's Day decider again I think we could have some joy.
The press have to fill column inches
The team has to beat the Scots.
Perhaps your lot are above such petty matters. But nonetheless, the more the Irish press describe Scotland as a speedbump, the happier I’ll be.
The Nz win was away, you don't have that scalp.dargotronV.1 wrote:Brian o'driscoll saying Ireland will only be thinking about the slam, and that Scotland have to start winning away to "eat at the top table" with Ireland, Wales and England.
What notable away wins to Ireland, England and Wales have, that Scotland do not, over the past few years? Ireland beat S.A. away, that I know... But I suspect that only England are really consistently doing it. I don't disagree btw that Scotland need to win away to be taken more seriously, but I find his choice of language... Interesting
YOYO... the Thistle rugby pod is not bad, not as informative or well debated as the Scottish rugby blog pod tho.
Pfft won the last 2 times in oz, they’re our bunnies though, you lads should remember that feelinglorcanoworms wrote:The Nz win was away, you don't have that scalp.dargotronV.1 wrote:Brian o'driscoll saying Ireland will only be thinking about the slam, and that Scotland have to start winning away to "eat at the top table" with Ireland, Wales and England.
What notable away wins to Ireland, England and Wales have, that Scotland do not, over the past few years? Ireland beat S.A. away, that I know... But I suspect that only England are really consistently doing it. I don't disagree btw that Scotland need to win away to be taken more seriously, but I find his choice of language... Interesting
YOYO... the Thistle rugby pod is not bad, not as informative or well debated as the Scottish rugby blog pod tho.
Oz away, well in Nz , think you have that one.
NZ didn't have home advantage either - so that doesn't countlorcanoworms wrote:The Nz win was away, you don't have that scalp.dargotronV.1 wrote:Brian o'driscoll saying Ireland will only be thinking about the slam, and that Scotland have to start winning away to "eat at the top table" with Ireland, Wales and England.
What notable away wins to Ireland, England and Wales have, that Scotland do not, over the past few years? Ireland beat S.A. away, that I know... But I suspect that only England are really consistently doing it. I don't disagree btw that Scotland need to win away to be taken more seriously, but I find his choice of language... Interesting
YOYO... the Thistle rugby pod is not bad, not as informative or well debated as the Scottish rugby blog pod tho.
Oz away, well in Nz , think you have that one.
Their season 2 - episode 24 went up this morning and is an Ireland v Scotland preview.YOYO wrote:Ireland beat the All Blacks (will we ever forget), SA and Australia away, a series win in Argentina, along with more regulars wins in France, and wins over the other home nations every now and then.
I had checked the Thistle podcast but it didn’t seem to have recent episodes.. at least on iTunes.
New Zealand was a neutral venue. Australia was a neutral venue (it's nearly 40 years since you won in Oz). SA you won 1 game out of a 3 Test series (and that's your only win in 55 years of touring there). Everybody wins series in Argentina - even Scotland and England's B/C team. You've 2 wins in Paris since 2000. You've won once at Twickenham in the last decade. You've only won one out of your last 4 at Murrayfield.YOYO wrote:Ireland beat the All Blacks (will we ever forget), SA and Australia away, a series win in Argentina, along with more regulars wins in France, and wins over the other home nations every now and then.
I had checked the Thistle podcast but it didn’t seem to have recent episodes.. at least on iTunes.
Still wondering about the chaviness.Doc Rob wrote:Can’t really recall to what this refers. Laidlaw is the least likely member of the squad to be chavvy, TBH. Wilson, definitely. Reid, perhaps. Not seeing it from Laidlaw.Sissyfuss wrote:Are the Irish Press playing tomorrow or are the Ireland rugby team? f**king hell.. I missed that announcement. Gerry Thornley the swaggering full back. Francis back in 2nd row. Could be a humdinger alright.I like haggis wrote:Happily, the Irish press are already speaking about England and Eddie Jones.
If the team show up thinking about the GS Paddy's Day decider again I think we could have some joy.
Anyway, any casual perusal of the Irish press says that if we wipe the floor with you we could sew up the Championship tomorrow. I think that is far far far far far far far more insulting and should be on the Scotch dressing room wall.
I cant imagine after Laidlaw's chaviness last year that the Irish chaps will be taking this game lightly.