Maybe they're not, but they beat the Canes, who beat the Crusaders today, so this is not a win to be sniffed at.

I thought many of those scrum penalties could have gone either way. Ref was good in the main.

Two young developing sides. Reds left many points out there, good Bulls defence or Reds attack a little toothless. Kiwi sides will rack up cricket scores with that amount of possession.

A work in progress, but as someone said, the Reds will take any good news.

Reds won't win the comp but few teams will travel to Brisbane and cruise to an easy win. Thorn has developed a physical team that is strong at the set piece. It's the second week in a row they've held off a far more experienced side with a bunch of 20 year olds. I was worried when they let Simmons go - now I can see why he wasn't considered.

Tupou, Slipper, JP Smith, Mafi and Paenga-Amosa should all get plenty of time with the Wallabies this year. Liam Wright is a future star.

Chucked that game away as well. Best chance of a road win. Same as the Stormers against the Tahs.

Yip