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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:18 am 
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Honestly, pointless tokenism at its worst. What %age of the plastic that leaves a supermarket are the 'single use' checkout bags? 100th of 1%? My shampoo's in a plastic bottle, the salad's in a plastic bag, the steak's on a plastic tray wrapped in gladwrap, the gladwrap is itself plastic, the OJ's in a plastic bottle, the veges are in their own plastic bags, the egg noodles are in a plastic bag, the chippies are in a plastic bag, the smoked salmon is in a vacuum plastic pack, and on and on.

In fact the only thing on that list that isn't single use is the fecking checkout bags because they get used in the kitchen bin, to put my trainers in inside my kit bag, etc. In fact if you stopped giving me bags at the checkout I'd have to buy similar bags IN A PLASTIC FCUKING BAG.

Right, sorry about that. :|


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:22 am 
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They banned plastic bags in Kenya last year. It was fairly painless, everyone now carries their own bags. It's made a massive different to litter in the city.

I just wish the government was as forward thinking with other important issues.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:26 am 
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I'm fine with it. Easy to adapt to it and must cut down on a massive amount of plastic in land fill.

Obviously a drop in the ocean overall, but a step in the right direction as far as government policy goes.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:30 am 
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South Africa forced shops to SELL the checkout bags. In 12 months time it made a tremendous difference to the pervasive littering problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:44 am 
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So the problem is twunts who litter not the bags themselves? I use them similarly to Doc. And I don't drop them in the street. Happy for a bio degradeable one to be available but they are useful as is.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:51 am 
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Why don't they just make them out of biodegradeable polymers instead of polyethylene
There's enough of them around now, it might cost a bit more but if we're going to be paying for them anyway surely the 5c or 10c that we pay may as well contribute to something worthwhile.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:52 am 
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Get a resuable bag (or don't ... or whatever) ... but stop whinging
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:07 am 
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A plastic bag levy was introduced in Ireland in 2002 and it immediately resulted in 1bn fewer plastic bags being used each year, a fall of 95%. It caused a few grumbling by a small number of people initially but was a popular bit of legislation overall, and its impact on usage was incredible.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:11 am 
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The 10p levy was very easy to adapt to, reduces litter and pollution whilst raising govt revenue. Yes of course there is more that can be done (eg terrible plastic packaging in supermarkets), but it's a bit of a no brainer and only grouchy plum seem to have a problem with it, and if they weren't whinging about this it would be something else asinine.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:13 am 
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It's a litter reduction exercise, not a plastic reduction exercise.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:22 am 
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It's rubbish.

Make something biodegradable.

They are not a litter problem here.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:24 am 
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Some of you are mentioning levies/charges for shopping bags. I shop 70-80% of the time at Pak N Save which is cheaper than the competition but charges 10c per shopping bag. This has zero impact on my use of plastic bags.

Countdown, where I do the rest of my shopping, still has free plastic shopping bags. Where are you shopping Doc?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:24 am 
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Probably a stupid point, but you would think it would be more logical to start with the council rubbish bags that are probably the equivelant of about 100 flimsy shop bags each and work their way down


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:29 am 
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We now have a plentiful supply of the heavy duty reusable bags, because until recently I couldn't persuade my wife that the best place to keep them was in the boots of the 2 cars and not tidied out of the way at home, where of course they are no use to you when you are at the shops :x


Last edited by Gwenno on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:32 am 
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Re the OP flimsy plastic backs cannot be recycled, plastic bottles (shampoo, oj etc) can be recycled.

I once tried to "give up plastic" for a month... It was impossible and gave up after 5 days...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:36 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Some of you are mentioning levies/charges for shopping bags. I shop 70-80% of the time at Pak N Save which is cheaper than the competition but charges 10c per shopping bag. This has zero impact on my use of plastic bags.

Countdown, where I do the rest of my shopping, still has free plastic shopping bags. Where are you shopping Doc?

Exactly. Moore Wilson for top-end groceries and wholesale bog roll, etc., New World Thorndon for beer ( :thumbup: outstanding work by the lads there), Regional for wine, New World Khandallah for incidentals, that market at the top of Vivian St for volume veges. Mrs. Doc uses Pak'n'Save Petone for general groceries. Boxes at Moore Wilson to stop things rolling around in the back of the truck except when I'm near out of plastic bags at home and need more. Bags everywhere else.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:38 am 
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TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Honestly, pointless tokenism at its worst. What %age of the plastic that leaves a supermarket are the 'single use' checkout bags? 100th of 1%? My shampoo's in a plastic bottle, the salad's in a plastic bag, the steak's on a plastic tray wrapped in gladwrap, the gladwrap is itself plastic, the OJ's in a plastic bottle, the veges are in their own plastic bags, the egg noodles are in a plastic bag, the chippies are in a plastic bag, the smoked salmon is in a vacuum plastic pack, and on and on.

In fact the only thing on that list that isn't single use is the fecking checkout bags because they get used in the kitchen bin, to put my trainers in inside my kit bag, etc. In fact if you stopped giving me bags at the checkout I'd have to buy similar bags IN A PLASTIC FCUKING BAG.

Right, sorry about that. :|

You have to start somewhere you muppet


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:40 am 
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So because it doesnt do a lot given the volume of plastic out there, we shouldnt do anything?

Id argue that you should embrace the ban and then push for all of the single use things to be banned as well. Drinking straws are something that should either be removed or use paper / metal straws.
Single use products are terrible, and they are everywhere here. And its down to people living day by day, they only buy enough for one day at a time.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:47 am 
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Farva wrote:
So because it doesnt do a lot given the volume of plastic out there, we shouldnt do anything?

Id argue that you should embrace the ban and then push for all of the single use things to be banned as well. Drinking straws are something that should either be removed or use paper / metal straws.
Single use products are terrible, and they are everywhere here. And its down to people living day by day, they only buy enough for one day at a time.



Yes.

I'm not interested in becoming a luddite.

Start a plastics company, make a better product, that increases quality of life. No need to ban anything because you're too thick and lazy to take the world forward.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:50 am 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
Farva wrote:
So because it doesnt do a lot given the volume of plastic out there, we shouldnt do anything?

Id argue that you should embrace the ban and then push for all of the single use things to be banned as well. Drinking straws are something that should either be removed or use paper / metal straws.
Single use products are terrible, and they are everywhere here. And its down to people living day by day, they only buy enough for one day at a time.



Yes.

I'm not interested in becoming a luddite.

Start a plastics company, make a better product, that increases quality of life. No need to ban anything because you're too thick and lazy to take the world forward.


Fine. Lets properly charge for the plastic then. And we can only do that with a levy. So lets stick a levy on each plastic bag sold. I think most places that have banned plastic bags have actually done that. I know in Adelaide that is the case. You can buy bags and use them.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 am 
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You can’t put plastic bags in the recycle bin, most of the other supermarket packaging you can.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:56 am 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
You can’t put plastic bags in the recycle bin, most of the other supermarket packaging you can.



They've started having this big bin at supermarkets for recycling soft plastic packaging recently in NZ. Not just supermarket bags, any soft plastic (eg wrappers etc).


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:58 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
You have to start somewhere you muppet

We must do something, this is something, we must do it? If you have to start somewhere then start in a sensible place. This isn't a sensible place. Maybe get all the butchery and fishmonger items back into paper wraps. Maybe get veges into paper bags like the mushrooms are. Maybe the entire supermarket model is ready for disruption in a way that eliminates a lot of packaging and uses re-usable packaging for other things. Dunno, but as I said in the OP the %age of plastic you take out of the supermarket that's made up of the 1g bags is feck all, and if the effort was directed to something actually helpful more would be achieved.

Reminds me though of the unintended consequences of a brief push back in the 90s when we had our kids for right-on parents to use terry toweling nappies. Turned out that washing them was much worse for the environment than using disposables.

Like this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06143.html

Quote:
Reusable bags found to be dirty

A reminder to shoppers who use reusable grocery bags: Don't forget to wash them after you've emptied them.

Nearly every bag examined for bacteria by researchers at the University of Arizona and Loma Linda University found whopping amounts of bugs. Coliform bacteria, suggesting raw-meat or uncooked-food contamination, was in half of the bags, and E. coli was found in 12 percent of the bags.

Running the bags through a washer or cleaning them by hand reduced bacteria levels to almost nothing, the study reported, but nearly all shoppers questioned said they do not regularly, if ever, wash their reusable bags. About a third said they also used their food-shopping bags to haul around non-food items.

The study was funded by the American Chemistry Council amid debate over a California bill that would ban single-use plastic bags. The council is opposed to that measure.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:10 am 
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TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
You have to start somewhere you muppet

We must do something, this is something, we must do it? If you have to start somewhere then start in a sensible place. This isn't a sensible place. Maybe get all the butchery and fishmonger items back into paper wraps. Maybe get veges into paper bags like the mushrooms are. Maybe the entire supermarket model is ready for disruption in a way that eliminates a lot of packaging and uses re-usable packaging for other things. Dunno, but as I said in the OP the %age of plastic you take out of the supermarket that's made up of the 1g bags is feck all, and if the effort was directed to something actually helpful more would be achieved.

Reminds me though of the unintended consequences of a brief push back in the 90s when we had our kids for right-on parents to use terry toweling nappies. Turned out that washing them was much worse for the environment than using disposables.

Like this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06143.html

Quote:
Reusable bags found to be dirty

A reminder to shoppers who use reusable grocery bags: Don't forget to wash them after you've emptied them.

Nearly every bag examined for bacteria by researchers at the University of Arizona and Loma Linda University found whopping amounts of bugs. Coliform bacteria, suggesting raw-meat or uncooked-food contamination, was in half of the bags, and E. coli was found in 12 percent of the bags.

Running the bags through a washer or cleaning them by hand reduced bacteria levels to almost nothing, the study reported, but nearly all shoppers questioned said they do not regularly, if ever, wash their reusable bags. About a third said they also used their food-shopping bags to haul around non-food items.

The study was funded by the American Chemistry Council amid debate over a California bill that would ban single-use plastic bags. The council is opposed to that measure.


Just make sure you don't eat the bags then.... ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:16 am 
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I agree with Doc. We gave had it a good few years here now and my children will never have the joy of seeing a plastic bag sticking out of a dogs arse


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:30 am 
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EverReady wrote:
I agree with Doc. We gave had it a good few years here now and my children will never have the joy of seeing a plastic bag sticking out of a dogs arse

:frown: Why were you sticking plastic bags up dogs' arses? Fuck's sake.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:11 am 
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We need to get rid of the sparrows as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:25 am 
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TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
EverReady wrote:
I agree with Doc. We gave had it a good few years here now and my children will never have the joy of seeing a plastic bag sticking out of a dogs arse

:frown: Why were you sticking plastic bags up dogs' arses? Fuck's sake.


Urban condom?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:29 am 
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Farva wrote:
So because it doesnt do a lot given the volume of plastic out there, we shouldnt do anything?

Id argue that you should embrace the ban and then push for all of the single use things to be banned as well. Drinking straws are something that should either be removed or use paper / metal straws.
Single use products are terrible, and they are everywhere here. And its down to people living day by day, they only buy enough for one day at a time.


This. There is estimated to be over 6 billion tons of plastic waste out there already. By the middle of this century there will be more plastic in the world's oceans than fish. Already we know that 50 - 100% of sea creatures (percentage dependant on depth) have ingested plastic in their guts. So it's in the food chain.

We are killing our environment at an ever increasing rate. It's not big and it's not clever.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:35 am 
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nuffsaid wrote:
Farva wrote:
So because it doesnt do a lot given the volume of plastic out there, we shouldnt do anything?

Id argue that you should embrace the ban and then push for all of the single use things to be banned as well. Drinking straws are something that should either be removed or use paper / metal straws.
Single use products are terrible, and they are everywhere here. And its down to people living day by day, they only buy enough for one day at a time.


This. There is estimated to be over 6 billion tons of plastic waste out there already. By the middle of this century there will be more plastic in the world's oceans than fish. Already we know that 50 - 100% of sea creatures (percentage dependant on depth) have ingested plastic in their guts. So it's in the food chain.

We are killing our environment at an ever increasing rate. It's not big and it's not clever.

2 reasons for not being a stupid midget of indeterminate sex.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:37 am 
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Gwenno wrote:
We now have a plentiful supply of the heavy duty reusable bags, because until recently I couldn't persuade my wife that the best place to keep them was in the boots of the 2 cars and not tidied out of the way at home, where of course they are no use to you when you are at the shops :x


Can you speak to my wife please.

As I am old and forgetful, when I have emptied the shopping bags I leave them by the back door so I'll pick them up the next time I go out and out and put them in the boot. Time and again they get 'tidied' away. We now have more resuable bags cluttering our cupboards than we ever had single use.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:40 am 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
We now have a plentiful supply of the heavy duty reusable bags, because until recently I couldn't persuade my wife that the best place to keep them was in the boots of the 2 cars and not tidied out of the way at home, where of course they are no use to you when you are at the shops :x


Can you speak to my wife please.

As I am old and forgetful, when I have emptied the shopping bags I leave them by the back door so I'll pick them up the next time I go out and out and put them in the boot. Time and again they get 'tidied' away. We now have more resuable bags cluttering our cupboards than we ever had single use.

That is what I used to do too, but I now bite the bullet and brave the rain there and then to replace them in the car. Even so, at the rate they wear out, we have enough bags for 50 years, or one absolutely humungous Christmas and new year shop for both our extended families.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:51 am 
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Lenny wrote:
A plastic bag levy was introduced in Ireland in 2002 and it immediately resulted in 1bn fewer plastic bags being used each year, a fall of 95%. It caused a few grumbling by a small number of people initially but was a popular bit of legislation overall, and its impact on usage was incredible.


yeah, similar to UK I think - I keep a stash of them in my car now so can reuse bags.
the 5p ones you pay for get used for bins and nappies or muddy boots etc.

anything that can positively boost the envirmonmental message and impact, for relatively minimal financial cost or hardship, is to be commended. Coke are switched their PET bottles to fully recycled material I think within a few years for example.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:56 am 
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Image


Image

https://imgur.com/gallery/2VVny


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:59 am 
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I've never understood why Sainsbury's wrap their coconuts in clingfilm. :?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:04 am 
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It's a remarkably effective policy for both reducing usage and cash generation.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:08 am 
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The issue with the bags isn't so much the ones used for a supermarket shop but the billions that are given out for your one sandwich at lunch or a thirst quenching drink. They're the ones that immediately end up either on the street (from those with no morals) or in a street bin (therefore not being reused and going to landfill). In the supermarket itself there is more excessive use when there's no levy too although when we still had flimsy bags (they're pretty much all phased out now) that did lead to overpacking and split bags which was counterproductive.

It does take a change in attitude but to be honest, I wouldn't go back now.

Our levy is up at 22 cent now, I think, although most supermarkets don't give out cheap bags anymore so you need to spend at least 70c on a more sturdy [not quite] bag for life. One 'trick' if you forget your bags is to just buy a roll of plastic bags with handles although not sure that's cost effective anywhere outside Ireland.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:46 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
South Africa forced shops to SELL the checkout bags. In 12 months time it made a tremendous difference to the pervasive littering problem.




This, our national flower has become critically endangered.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:52 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Image

While down the coast on hols, I tried carrying home the newspaper, a packet of smokes and a sticky bun in a jellyfish.

Cunniver nidea. Avoid such foolishness.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:16 pm 
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There should be a big tax on buying packaged in plastic. Everything is for people's convenience and driving down price and up profits. Why do basics like meat fish eggs milk and vegetables need to have any plastic involved in there purchase or storage except for modern shoppers convenience.


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