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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Nabberuk wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:
Nabberuk wrote:
I think there power walls will end up being a bigger seller than their cars. Distributed power will certainly help


There's better domestic batteries on the market.
Nissan are even recycling batteries from the older model Leafs to be used as a domestic storage solution and micro demand side management.

There won't be soon though when their gigafactory is fully online and up to capacity. It should reduce the cost of batteries massively

Cobalt for the batteries is a rare element and comes from The Congo. China basically owns the whole place. Very risky betting on batteries for the future of transport and your lights at home.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Exactly. Batteries require special metals that are priced via the commodity markets.
That'll be the main factor in determining the price until some major technology breakthrough is made.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:37 am 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Nabberuk wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:
Nabberuk wrote:
I think there power walls will end up being a bigger seller than their cars. Distributed power will certainly help


There's better domestic batteries on the market.
Nissan are even recycling batteries from the older model Leafs to be used as a domestic storage solution and micro demand side management.

There won't be soon though when their gigafactory is fully online and up to capacity. It should reduce the cost of batteries massively

Cobalt for the batteries is a rare element and comes from The Congo. China basically owns the whole place. Very risky betting on batteries for the future of transport and your lights at home.


That's going on the fact that battery tech won't improve. They can already do Lithium-manganese-oxide batteries without a change in the manufacturering technique which do not require Cobolt. Also graphene based batteries are being developed.

The amount of money being put into battery technology is astounding at the moment.

So I don't think it's risky betting on batteries for the future although super capacitors could have a big part to play


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:50 am 
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Recent discovery has iron potentially replacing the cobalt too.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:48 am 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:53 am 
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wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.

:shock:

yes... it would.

No performance issues in the extreme cold? That can be a battery killer.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:04 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.

:shock:

yes... it would.

No performance issues in the extreme cold? That can be a battery killer.


Not as bad as I expected and I was concerned about this when I bought the thing. However, I find I lose about 20% of range during the winter which still gives me over 300km of range. The Tesla super charger network easily deals with that over here on long trips and I never find myself waiting for the car to charge. I stop for a coffee or something as per usual and the car is usually ready before I am.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:07 am 
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wheely wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
:shock:

yes... it would.

No performance issues in the extreme cold? That can be a battery killer.


Not as bad as I expected and I was concerned about this when I bought the thing. However, I find I lose about 20% of range during the winter which still gives me over 300km of range. The Tesla super charger network easily deals with that over here on long trips and I never find myself waiting for the car to charge. I stop for a coffee or something as per usual and the car is usually ready before I am.



That's pretty damned impressive. Cheers for that.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:08 am 
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wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


Listen fella, I'm not sure where you've come from, but this kind of first-hand experience is not the sort of thing that we go in for around here. So best take your Model X, and leave, for you do this place no good at all.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:23 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


Listen fella, I'm not sure where you've come from, but this kind of first-hand experience is not the sort of thing that we go in for around here. So best take your Model X, and leave, for you do this place no good at all.


I realised I was not really playing by the rules when I posted but couldn't help myself. please accept my apologies.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:24 am 
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wheely wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


Listen fella, I'm not sure where you've come from, but this kind of first-hand experience is not the sort of thing that we go in for around here. So best take your Model X, and leave, for you do this place no good at all.


I realised I was not really playing by the rules when I posted but couldn't help myself. please accept my apologies.



Don't worry about what ole Tay Tay says.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:03 am 
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Would any of you buy into TESLA at the moment?


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:51 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


Listen fella, I'm not sure where you've come from, but this kind of first-hand experience is not the sort of thing that we go in for around here. So best take your Model X, and leave, for you do this place no good at all.


He’s not the only one though

Mr Dominator’s Mum has got one apparently. Absolutely motors on the trip home from Prep School.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:57 am 
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wheely wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


Listen fella, I'm not sure where you've come from, but this kind of first-hand experience is not the sort of thing that we go in for around here. So best take your Model X, and leave, for you do this place no good at all.


I realised I was not really playing by the rules when I posted but couldn't help myself. please accept my apologies.



Also apologies on here are a big no no. The appropriate response is "fvck you cvnt, do you know who I am?" and not "please accept my apologies".
:x


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:20 am 
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wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


I think that's true with every kind of heavier vehicle. I think the way things have gone in Scandinavia is showing the UK government isn't really committed to making cleaner motoring cheaper. If we went electric it would need to be on the practical car in the garage and managing the recharging is still a ballache in the UK&I. I have a mate who tried to bring customers from London to a manufacturer in the South West, messed up his recharging strategy and ended up wasting a lot of their time.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


I think that's true with every kind of heavier vehicle. I think the way things have gone in Scandinavia is showing the UK government isn't really committed to making cleaner motoring cheaper. If we went electric it would need to be on the practical car in the garage and managing the recharging is still a ballache in the UK&I. I have a mate who tried to bring customers from London to a manufacturer in the South West, messed up his recharging strategy and ended up wasting a lot of their time.


For me, i think this is why Tesla is still the only real EV option for those who even occasionally do a long trip. The super charger network allows you to match the journey time of a non EV driver who takes occasional coffee/pee breaks maybe every two to three hours plus, at least for me, its free. Even in the UK I think this is possible.

Until the other manufacturers can provide a continent wide super fast charging network such as Tesla has, I don't think I'd consider another electric vehicle except for daily commutes or shorter journeys.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Clogs wrote:
wheely wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


Listen fella, I'm not sure where you've come from, but this kind of first-hand experience is not the sort of thing that we go in for around here. So best take your Model X, and leave, for you do this place no good at all.


I realised I was not really playing by the rules when I posted but couldn't help myself. please accept my apologies.



Also apologies on here are a big no no. The appropriate response is "fvck you cvnt, do you know who I am?" and not "please accept my apologies".
:x


I'm sorry you cvnt


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
An old petrol-head like myself is yet to be convinced about the whole electric/hybrid phenomenon but there is no doubt that the Tesla S is a serious piece of kit.

Won't that be a bit of problem in France over the next or so years or are they waffling when they say they're getting rid of the combustion engine completely?


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric :shock:

Spreadsheet buyers etc.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:23 pm 
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RWC2015 wrote:
Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric :shock:

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

I don’t think any are in service yet in the UK. :uhoh:


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:
Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric :shock:

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

I don’t think any are in service yet in the UK. :uhoh:

No, that's why I was so surprised.

These guys are market leaders:

https://www.proterra.com/


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:41 pm 
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RWC2015 wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:
Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric :shock:

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

I don’t think any are in service yet in the UK. :uhoh:

No, that's why I was so surprised.

These guys are market leaders:

https://www.proterra.com/

Looks cool. I saw loads of Chinese-made electric buses in Lisbon last year.

UK Govt seem totally disinterested in even trying.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:47 pm 
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What. A. Surprise.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:15 pm 
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Electric buses already operating in Edinburgh, York, London has Europe's largest hybrid fleet already and is moving to Electric only purchases from this year forward. Apparently the UK is leading the way in Europe with 18% of all Electric buses in Europe


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:18 pm 
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wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


I think that's true with every kind of heavier vehicle. I think the way things have gone in Scandinavia is showing the UK government isn't really committed to making cleaner motoring cheaper. If we went electric it would need to be on the practical car in the garage and managing the recharging is still a ballache in the UK&I. I have a mate who tried to bring customers from London to a manufacturer in the South West, messed up his recharging strategy and ended up wasting a lot of their time.


For me, i think this is why Tesla is still the only real EV option for those who even occasionally do a long trip. The super charger network allows you to match the journey time of a non EV driver who takes occasional coffee/pee breaks maybe every two to three hours plus, at least for me, its free. Even in the UK I think this is possible.

Until the other manufacturers can provide a continent wide super fast charging network such as Tesla has, I don't think I'd consider another electric vehicle except for daily commutes or shorter journeys.


Driving through Spain and Portugal last year I was keeping an eye out for ANY sort charging point as I am still considering options for my next new car. Rapidly came to the conclusion that currently it's a non-starter - way too many part of Europe that you would run out of juice at the moment


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:11 am 
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Saint wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:

I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.


I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


I think that's true with every kind of heavier vehicle. I think the way things have gone in Scandinavia is showing the UK government isn't really committed to making cleaner motoring cheaper. If we went electric it would need to be on the practical car in the garage and managing the recharging is still a ballache in the UK&I. I have a mate who tried to bring customers from London to a manufacturer in the South West, messed up his recharging strategy and ended up wasting a lot of their time.


For me, i think this is why Tesla is still the only real EV option for those who even occasionally do a long trip. The super charger network allows you to match the journey time of a non EV driver who takes occasional coffee/pee breaks maybe every two to three hours plus, at least for me, its free. Even in the UK I think this is possible.

Until the other manufacturers can provide a continent wide super fast charging network such as Tesla has, I don't think I'd consider another electric vehicle except for daily commutes or shorter journeys.


Driving through Spain and Portugal last year I was keeping an eye out for ANY sort charging point as I am still considering options for my next new car. Rapidly came to the conclusion that currently it's a non-starter - way too many part of Europe that you would run out of juice at the moment


Tesla are making a good go of it though. Red are superchargers already installed, grey to be completed this year and with a minimum range of 350km in a tesla you could make your trip now.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:21 am 
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RWC2015 wrote:
Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric :shock:

Spreadsheet buyers etc.


They laid me off in late 2012, so I don't know about since then, but when I left Cummins, we had 100% of the transit bus market - I know that's true because I was the engineer that had to make it all happen when certain elements turned out underdesigned with brand new customers after our competition pulled out - and we had large percentages of the school bus and city bus market. There were some communities we sold hybrids too because it was all they said they would buy. Might've changed in the 5 years since.

What's really understated that no one talks about is natural gas engines. Was big in certain areas for buses.

If someone brand new I've never heard of has 10% of the bus market, I'd love to be able to see their ongoing maintenance bill. :lol: Transit buses especially are an absolutely brutal application.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:37 am 
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When I can charge a vehicle in 5-10 minutes, I will get excited

Until then, the hybrids seem to make more sense


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:54 am 
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Sandstorm wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:
Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric :shock:

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

I don’t think any are in service yet in the UK. :uhoh:

Most of the airports I visit are using fully electric busses on tarmac. They have loads of roof space for solar and the journeys are tiny, plus is makes them look green. Flying obviously is the opposite of green


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:54 am 
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_fatprop wrote:
When I can charge a vehicle in 5-10 minutes, I will get excited

Until then, the hybrids seem to make more sense


Not wishing to sound all evangelical and everything but if you want to charge from zero to full, it will indeed take a couple of hours at a tesla super charger because the first 20% and the last 10% take ages. However, nobody ever does that because it's unnecessary. When you get nearly 500km range per hour when charging at a super charger and the next super charger is about 100km away max, you rarely need to stay anywhere long.

I only occasionally wait more time than it takes to have a pee, smoke a cigarette or get myself a coffee when travelling anywhere. Car is also always fully charged when I wake up in the morning too.

Hybrids sound good but there is a lot more maintenance than in an EV and really, in my experience at least, I just don't need that extra engine in there.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:22 am 
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I'm all for smart technology improving our lives and I find it amusing that while all the attention has been on Tesla and auto makers playing catch up, a bus company appears to have just got on with it and produced a serious contender.. I first heard about them when they got something like 1000km out of a charge.

All this EV takeup means a need for more power generation though, and that's where we need a revolution. Our power demands are rising at a phenomenal rate... we really need some smart thinking there.

As an aside, I read an article recently talking to one of the Mercedes F1 team designer / engineer dude, forgotten his name... he was asked what he'd come up with if asked to design the next Mercedes S class. and the short answer is a hybrid running a small capacity V twin hi-po engine hooked up with all the same tech as F1 for power capture, storage drive and generation. Really interesting thinking... very low fuel consumption, very high performance.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:11 am 
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wheely wrote:
Saint wrote:
wheely wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
wheely wrote:

I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.


I think that's true with every kind of heavier vehicle. I think the way things have gone in Scandinavia is showing the UK government isn't really committed to making cleaner motoring cheaper. If we went electric it would need to be on the practical car in the garage and managing the recharging is still a ballache in the UK&I. I have a mate who tried to bring customers from London to a manufacturer in the South West, messed up his recharging strategy and ended up wasting a lot of their time.


For me, i think this is why Tesla is still the only real EV option for those who even occasionally do a long trip. The super charger network allows you to match the journey time of a non EV driver who takes occasional coffee/pee breaks maybe every two to three hours plus, at least for me, its free. Even in the UK I think this is possible.

Until the other manufacturers can provide a continent wide super fast charging network such as Tesla has, I don't think I'd consider another electric vehicle except for daily commutes or shorter journeys.


Driving through Spain and Portugal last year I was keeping an eye out for ANY sort charging point as I am still considering options for my next new car. Rapidly came to the conclusion that currently it's a non-starter - way too many part of Europe that you would run out of juice at the moment


Tesla are making a good go of it though. Red are superchargers already installed, grey to be completed this year and with a minimum range of 350km in a tesla you could make your trip now.

Image


Not convinced. I'd want to see closer to 4 times the density of chargers i think, unless there was going to be a charge point installed at the place i stayed. You'd be going out of your way to get a charge far too often even if when all the greys turn red.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:12 am 
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wheely wrote:
_fatprop wrote:
When I can charge a vehicle in 5-10 minutes, I will get excited

Until then, the hybrids seem to make more sense


Not wishing to sound all evangelical and everything but if you want to charge from zero to full, it will indeed take a couple of hours at a tesla super charger because the first 20% and the last 10% take ages. However, nobody ever does that because it's unnecessary. When you get nearly 500km range per hour when charging at a super charger and the next super charger is about 100km away max, you rarely need to stay anywhere long.

I only occasionally wait more time than it takes to have a pee, smoke a cigarette or get myself a coffee when travelling anywhere. Car is also always fully charged when I wake up in the morning too.

Hybrids sound good but there is a lot more maintenance than in an EV and really, in my experience at least, I just don't need that extra engine in there.


I think like most things, a compromise such as hybrids are a more reasonable initial step especially when there will be a long time before the support logistics are ramped up.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:19 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
I'm all for smart technology improving our lives and I find it amusing that while all the attention has been on Tesla and auto makers playing catch up, a bus company appears to have just got on with it and produced a serious contender.. I first heard about them when they got something like 1000km out of a charge.

All this EV takeup means a need for more power generation though, and that's where we need a revolution. Our power demands are rising at a phenomenal rate... we really need some smart thinking there.

As an aside, I read an article recently talking to one of the Mercedes F1 team designer / engineer dude, forgotten his name... he was asked what he'd come up with if asked to design the next Mercedes S class. and the short answer is a hybrid running a small capacity V twin hi-po engine hooked up with all the same tech as F1 for power capture, storage drive and generation. Really interesting thinking... very low fuel consumption, very high performance.


That's why the engine manufacturers wanted this engine formula - this has been their vision for a LONG time


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:04 am 
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Saint wrote:

Not convinced. I'd want to see closer to 4 times the density of chargers i think, unless there was going to be a charge point installed at the place i stayed. You'd be going out of your way to get a charge far too often even if when all the greys turn red.


I certainly understand your thinking and it's how I thought until I actually bought one which I only did because I couldn't decide between a Renault Zoe (to save on commuting expenses) or a Mitsubishi Outlander (to carry stuff in) and so got the bastard offspring of them both.

It's hard to explain though why you don't need to go out of your way much if at all when travelling. Tesla provides destination chargers at locations that ask for them. They are pretty quick but not as fast as super chargers. Looking at Tesla's map, Portugal has about a hundred locations with them in hotels and restaurants around the tourist spots. Spain has loads more. More than that, most hotels let you plug in to a standard 13A plug socket which will charge you overnight while you sleep but in most cases, you have enough range that you don't need to charge at your destination at all.

You only really get to understand this until you try it of course and when you do try one, you also get to see just how good a top end EV is to drive and how damn fast it is. Not sure I could ever go back to an ICE.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:39 am 
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wheely wrote:
Saint wrote:

Not convinced. I'd want to see closer to 4 times the density of chargers i think, unless there was going to be a charge point installed at the place i stayed. You'd be going out of your way to get a charge far too often even if when all the greys turn red.


I certainly understand your thinking and it's how I thought until I actually bought one which I only did because I couldn't decide between a Renault Zoe (to save on commuting expenses) or a Mitsubishi Outlander (to carry stuff in) and so got the bastard offspring of them both.

It's hard to explain though why you don't need to go out of your way much if at all when travelling. Tesla provides destination chargers at locations that ask for them. They are pretty quick but not as fast as super chargers. Looking at Tesla's map, Portugal has about a hundred locations with them in hotels and restaurants around the tourist spots. Spain has loads more. More than that, most hotels let you plug in to a standard 13A plug socket which will charge you overnight while you sleep but in most cases, you have enough range that you don't need to charge at your destination at all.

You only really get to understand this until you try it of course and when you do try one, you also get to see just how good a top end EV is to drive and how damn fast it is. Not sure I could ever go back to an ICE.


So, just looked at where we stayed and the surrounding area. Nearest supercharger will be 40 miles away, no destination charger, and there's no way I could have run a 13A cable to the car. And that wasn't particularly off the beaten track.....

Seriously, this isn't viable at the moment if you want to do anything other than a fairly regular commute


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:47 am 
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EverReady wrote:
Has anybody ever actually seen a Tesla? I haven't and I am not confined to my bed.

I see them all the time. At least once a day. I'd love one.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:10 am 
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Saint wrote:
wheely wrote:
Saint wrote:

Not convinced. I'd want to see closer to 4 times the density of chargers i think, unless there was going to be a charge point installed at the place i stayed. You'd be going out of your way to get a charge far too often even if when all the greys turn red.


I certainly understand your thinking and it's how I thought until I actually bought one which I only did because I couldn't decide between a Renault Zoe (to save on commuting expenses) or a Mitsubishi Outlander (to carry stuff in) and so got the bastard offspring of them both.

It's hard to explain though why you don't need to go out of your way much if at all when travelling. Tesla provides destination chargers at locations that ask for them. They are pretty quick but not as fast as super chargers. Looking at Tesla's map, Portugal has about a hundred locations with them in hotels and restaurants around the tourist spots. Spain has loads more. More than that, most hotels let you plug in to a standard 13A plug socket which will charge you overnight while you sleep but in most cases, you have enough range that you don't need to charge at your destination at all.

You only really get to understand this until you try it of course and when you do try one, you also get to see just how good a top end EV is to drive and how damn fast it is. Not sure I could ever go back to an ICE.


So, just looked at where we stayed and the surrounding area. Nearest supercharger will be 40 miles away, no destination charger, and there's no way I could have run a 13A cable to the car. And that wasn't particularly off the beaten track.....

Seriously, this isn't viable at the moment if you want to do anything other than a fairly regular commute


Well our experiences with Tesla driving are perhaps different. I do 120km commute each day. Last week I drove an unplanned 1000km over mountains and back in -20C. Two weeks before that I drove 400km and instead of charging at my destination as planned, decided to turn around and come home instead. Three days ago I drove to a hotel in the mountains some 200 hundred km away, stayed three nights without charging and then drove home. So it can be viable though maybe not for you.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:28 am 
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I'd like an electric van- i never do more than 45 miles a day.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:04 am 
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Saint wrote:
Electric buses already operating in Edinburgh, York, London has Europe's largest hybrid fleet already and is moving to Electric only purchases from this year forward. Apparently the UK is leading the way in Europe with 18% of all Electric buses in Europe

Well that told me then. :lol:


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