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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:17 am 
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The Native wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Has anybody ever actually seen a Tesla? I haven't and I am not confined to my bed.

I see them all the time. At least once a day. I'd love one.


I have to say I think they don’t look the money. BMW i8 now that’s a beast


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:49 am 
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paddyor wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
An old petrol-head like myself is yet to be convinced about the whole electric/hybrid phenomenon but there is no doubt that the Tesla S is a serious piece of kit.

Won't that be a bit of problem in France over the next or so years or are they waffling when they say they're getting rid of the combustion engine completely?


2040 is the date they are talking about and Paris want to ban non EV's from 2030 but I will believe it when I see it. The French like to think they are taking the lead on certain issues but places like the Netherlands will decouple from the petrol engine years before the French.
Nobody is going to ban petrol engines, you will pay and probably pay quite dearly to drive them for pleasure but an outright ban won't happen IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:37 pm 
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argus wrote:
Saint wrote:
Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust


The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:38 pm 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/tesla-crash-police-autopilot-selfdriving-car-a8376881.html

Tesla on autopilot crashes into police car :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:43 pm 
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etherman wrote:
argus wrote:
Saint wrote:
Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust


The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.


http://bettingonzeromovie.com/

It's on netflix.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:44 pm 
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etherman wrote:
argus wrote:
Saint wrote:
Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust


The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.

Good documentary on Netflix


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Rumham wrote:
etherman wrote:
argus wrote:
Saint wrote:
Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust


The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.


http://bettingonzeromovie.com/

It's on netflix.

Oh right. Cheers :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Tesla is levered 39x net assets, there's little precedent in the S&P 500 for that. UBS issuing sell notices yesterday with a target below $200 and 1.7 billion left currently in cash which will only see out 2018. Any more dollar rate rises and they're in trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:16 pm 
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etherman wrote:
Rumham wrote:
etherman wrote:
argus wrote:
Saint wrote:
Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust


The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.


http://bettingonzeromovie.com/

It's on netflix.

Oh right. Cheers :thumbup:


Watch it soon or..


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:40 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).



You mean he might not be a "good guy" , who'd have thought it !


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:44 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).



You mean he might not be a "good guy" , who'd have thought it !


Like most people that become successful and famous, I'm sure he was once a good guy. The problem occurs when the successful and famous read their own press clippings and start to view themselves as gods and goddesses.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
bimboman wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).



You mean he might not be a "good guy" , who'd have thought it !


Like most people that become successful and famous, I'm sure he was once a good guy. The problem occurs when the successful and famous read their own press clippings and start to view themselves as gods and goddesses.


Steve Jobs took it to actual god levels


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:35 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).


x(


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:39 pm 
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What's with the cult like following Musk has?


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Rumour from contacts who would know (apologies if RR) is that not only that the financial losses are mounting in their billions but also that his much vaunted production process is producing thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, fewer units than anticipated.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:32 am 
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Not really a rumor. It was published in a news article today.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:55 am 
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Even if they were to go bust I think they've proved the electric car is here to stay and now other more mainstream manufacturers have brought forward their own plans.

I wouldn't be shocked to see paid journalism either from the big manufacturers either to slow their progress


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:42 am 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
The Native wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Has anybody ever actually seen a Tesla? I haven't and I am not confined to my bed.

I see them all the time. At least once a day. I'd love one.


I have to say I think they don’t look the money. BMW i8 now that’s a beast



They are absolutely beautiful, as people are aware I am not a car buff but one of them I would really like, I am just not prepared to spend 80k on a car!!
Best mate has one and everything about it is class!!


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:53 am 
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Nabberuk wrote:
Even if they were to go bust I think they've proved the electric car is here to stay and now other more mainstream manufacturers have brought forward their own plans.

I wouldn't be shocked to see paid journalism either from the big manufacturers either to slow their progress



The glaring issue of we all,switched is the UK for example produces nothing like enough electricity to operate more cars.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:06 am 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Not really a rumor. It was published in a news article today.

:blush: :blush: Well at least I know one or two people who aren't total bullshitters.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:48 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Nabberuk wrote:
Even if they were to go bust I think they've proved the electric car is here to stay and now other more mainstream manufacturers have brought forward their own plans.

I wouldn't be shocked to see paid journalism either from the big manufacturers either to slow their progress



The glaring issue of we all,switched is the UK for example produces nothing like enough electricity to operate more cars.

I like the way you wrote that in the style of Yoda.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:09 pm 
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PCPhil wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Nabberuk wrote:
Even if they were to go bust I think they've proved the electric car is here to stay and now other more mainstream manufacturers have brought forward their own plans.

I wouldn't be shocked to see paid journalism either from the big manufacturers either to slow their progress



The glaring issue of we all,switched is the UK for example produces nothing like enough electricity to operate more cars.

I like the way you wrote that in the style of Yoda.


Nah, Eddie Jones says "mate" all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Jaguar I-Pace reviews flooding out today now reporting embargo is listed. Lots of "Tesla killer" gibberish.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:45 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
Jaguar I-Pace reviews flooding out today now reporting embargo is listed. Lots of "Tesla killer" gibberish.


If the electrics on the I-Pace are as reliable as my F-Pace they're going to be clogging up hard shoulders across Europe in less than a month. JLR currently has terrible build quality issues


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:54 pm 
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croyals wrote:
Rumour from contacts who would know (apologies if RR) is that not only that the financial losses are mounting in their billions but also that his much vaunted production process is producing thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, fewer units than anticipated.

Apparently the shop floor was infested with thousands of life-size sewer rats, which slowed down production a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Saint wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
Jaguar I-Pace reviews flooding out today now reporting embargo is listed. Lots of "Tesla killer" gibberish.


If the electrics on the I-Pace are as reliable as my F-Pace they're going to be clogging up hard shoulders across Europe in less than a month. JLR currently has terrible build quality issues



Even if it isn't the I pace, there's many cars that will eventually bankrupt Tesla.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:20 pm 
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They are really a technology company that makes cars


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:23 pm 
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argus wrote:
They are really a technology company that makes cars



What tech though ?


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:50 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
paddyor wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
An old petrol-head like myself is yet to be convinced about the whole electric/hybrid phenomenon but there is no doubt that the Tesla S is a serious piece of kit.

Won't that be a bit of problem in France over the next or so years or are they waffling when they say they're getting rid of the combustion engine completely?


2040 is the date they are talking about and Paris want to ban non EV's from 2030 but I will believe it when I see it. The French like to think they are taking the lead on certain issues but places like the Netherlands will decouple from the petrol engine years before the French.
Nobody is going to ban petrol engines, you will pay and probably pay quite dearly to drive them for pleasure but an outright ban won't happen IMO.


:lol: sorry, but you are a moron, will be easier to for the Dutch as their country is 16k sq/miles when France is 214k sq/miles.
But so far
Quote:
According to Park Indigo, France is leading the way in terms of electric car charging points.
A whopping 11,987 points were installed over the past 12 months, more than 4,000 more than the second biggest installing country Germany.

https://greenerideal.com/infographics/e ... ng-points/


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:14 am 
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bimboman wrote:
argus wrote:
They are really a technology company that makes cars



What tech though ?


Does SpaceX count since it is founded by Musk?

I some years ago watched a bit showing the Tesla factory and them making a car as part of a special on Tesla. It was 2 guys just doing it. If you know nothing about manufacturing you wouldn't notice anything wrong. If you do, you would look at this video and realize that this company wanted to make so many thousands of cars when they had nowhere close to approaching a manufacturing system capable of actually doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:43 am 
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Tesla just seem to be preparing the ground for the big boys just drop their better offerings into the market place as and when they can be bothered.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:24 am 
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Openside wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
The Native wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Has anybody ever actually seen a Tesla? I haven't and I am not confined to my bed.

I see them all the time. At least once a day. I'd love one.


I have to say I think they don’t look the money. BMW i8 now that’s a beast



They are absolutely beautiful, as people are aware I am not a car buff but one of them I would really like, I am just not prepared to spend 80k on a car!!
Best mate has one and everything about it is class!!



80k??? that is about 140k AUD. I looked at the price here and they are 300K. They look great but that is a lot of money for a 3 cylinder 96 kW vehicle.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:36 am 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
bimboman wrote:
argus wrote:
They are really a technology company that makes cars



What tech though ?


Does SpaceX count since it is founded by Musk?

I some years ago watched a bit showing the Tesla factory and them making a car as part of a special on Tesla. It was 2 guys just doing it. If you know nothing about manufacturing you wouldn't notice anything wrong. If you do, you would look at this video and realize that this company wanted to make so many thousands of cars when they had nowhere close to approaching a manufacturing system capable of actually doing it.



Unless I get a piece of space X with my tesla shares ?

Yep, the analysts seem to have caught in late to the assembly issues regarding scaling and I always thought it would be either labour or supply chain logistics killing the numbers rather than actual factory capacity.

At least stopping mass sales is stemming the tide though as they still lose money on every unit delivered.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:16 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
Jaguar I-Pace reviews flooding out today now reporting embargo is listed. Lots of "Tesla killer" gibberish.


If the electrics on the I-Pace are as reliable as my F-Pace they're going to be clogging up hard shoulders across Europe in less than a month. JLR currently has terrible build quality issues



Even if it isn't the I pace, there's many cars that will eventually bankrupt Tesla.


Don't know about bankrupting Tesla, but BEV options from Audi/BMW/Mercedes are going to be coming thick and fast over the next couple of years - that competition will definitely hurt Tesla, especially if they can't sort out their production and quality issues. The transition to high volumes of BEV vehicles is going to be a pretty slow one though....


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:12 am 
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One of the big manufacturers will buy Tesla once the market pegs them down enough.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:56 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Tesla just seem to be preparing the ground for the big boys just drop their better offerings into the market place as and when they can be bothered.


Musk's stated aim has been to push all transport (cars especially) towards electric. The fact that the big boys are scrambling to get models out that even vaguely match the capability of Teslas that have already been in production for several years shows it's working.

Not do they lose money in every car they make. A profit is made on every car sold (it costs US$28,000 to make a Model 3 according to a recent tear down, so even the as yet unproduced base model at US$35,000 would turn a profit). They are, however, burning through that profit and more by ploughing cash into facilities etc.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:05 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
One of the big manufacturers will buy Tesla once the market pegs them down enough.


I'v been tracking this thread and popping in to see their share price from time to time. Their impending bankruptcy, which according to some on here is days away, hasn't done much to dent their market value.

I did read that Musk will be challenged at the AGM this week for leadership of the company. It's probably a good idea to have him step aside for a little and let some other minds have a go at making this a viable business.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Rumham wrote:
Zakar wrote:
One of the big manufacturers will buy Tesla once the market pegs them down enough.


I'v been tracking this thread and popping in to see their share price from time to time. Their impending bankruptcy, which according to some on here is days away, hasn't done much to dent their market value.

I did read that Musk will be challenged at the AGM this week for leadership of the company. It's probably a good idea to have him step aside for a little and let some other minds have a go at making this a viable business.


A setup similar to Eric Schmidt at Google would probably be a good idea, but I suspect that this will be far more acrimonious


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