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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Rumham wrote:
Zakar wrote:
One of the big manufacturers will buy Tesla once the market pegs them down enough.


I'v been tracking this thread and popping in to see their share price from time to time. Their impending bankruptcy, which according to some on here is days away, hasn't done much to dent their market value.

I did read that Musk will be challenged at the AGM this week for leadership of the company. It's probably a good idea to have him step aside for a little and let some other minds have a go at making this a viable business.

There was a 25% drop in the price since the thread started (it had been on a downward curve for a while) and it's now recovered to only 10% down which is nothing really. Still if I had any today at 296 usd I'd sell.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:18 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Rumham wrote:
Zakar wrote:
One of the big manufacturers will buy Tesla once the market pegs them down enough.


I'v been tracking this thread and popping in to see their share price from time to time. Their impending bankruptcy, which according to some on here is days away, hasn't done much to dent their market value.

I did read that Musk will be challenged at the AGM this week for leadership of the company. It's probably a good idea to have him step aside for a little and let some other minds have a go at making this a viable business.

There was a 25% drop in the price since the thread started (it had been on a downward curve for a while) and it's now recovered to only 10% down which is nothing really. Still if I had any today at 296 usd I'd sell.


emm , the shares are up 23% since the thread was started. They were $259 back in march and today there $319.

Tesla shares jump 3.8% premarket after CEO Elon Musk says 'quite likely' it will meet Model 3 production goals
Short sellers betting against Tesla lose more than $1 billion in single day as stock pops


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:44 am 
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Stone wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Rumham wrote:
Zakar wrote:
One of the big manufacturers will buy Tesla once the market pegs them down enough.


I'v been tracking this thread and popping in to see their share price from time to time. Their impending bankruptcy, which according to some on here is days away, hasn't done much to dent their market value.

I did read that Musk will be challenged at the AGM this week for leadership of the company. It's probably a good idea to have him step aside for a little and let some other minds have a go at making this a viable business.

There was a 25% drop in the price since the thread started (it had been on a downward curve for a while) and it's now recovered to only 10% down which is nothing really. Still if I had any today at 296 usd I'd sell.


emm , the shares are up 23% since the thread was started. They were $259 back in march and today there $319.

Tesla shares jump 3.8% premarket after CEO Elon Musk says 'quite likely' it will meet Model 3 production goals
Short sellers betting against Tesla lose more than $1 billion in single day as stock pops


Where are our resident Tesla experts?

Quote:
Tesla bears have lost nearly $5 billion in mark-to-market losses since 2016, S3 finds.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:14 pm 
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As someone who is not a financial analyst, Tesla's share price high in 2016 was $255 while today it is $342. If they were still sitting on their shares they would have a tidy sum.

Quote:
Tesla (TSLA) shorts take an estimated $2 billion of losses in Elon Musk’s ‘next level burn’
Last month, Tesla CEO Elon Musk bought $10 million worth of Tesla stock (TSLA) just as he predicted a short squeeze that would be a ‘next level short burn of the century’.

A month later, it looks like his prediction is already starting to become reality as Tesla’s stock price is rising and people betting against the company are reportedly losing billions of dollars.

Short sellers on Wall Street have been building up massive positions against Tesla. As of the last report, the bet was worth as much as $12 billion and short sellers are starting to have issues finding shares to borrow, which increases the borrowing fees.

But that was only the beginning of their issues.

In June alone, the stock has increased by 20% – mostly from a record day following Tesla’s annual shareholder meeting.

Yet, people with short interest on Tesla are holding on. Even though they are taking losses on paper, only a small percentage have covered their position and the rest are still hoping for a crash. According to the analyst, Tesla shorts have lost about $1 billion this week alone and about $2.4 billion in June.

https://electrek.co/2018/06/13/tesla-ts ... evel-burn/

Tesla's stock price is approaching record highs. Its market cap is right behind GM and bigger than fords. Giving all the negative news , somehow they seem to be holding on. :D


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:26 pm 
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When will he be defending "quite likely" in front of the SEC, surely he either f ucking knows or he doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:39 am 
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bimboman wrote:
When will he be defending "quite likely" in front of the SEC, surely he either f ucking knows or he doesn't.


:?


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:30 am 
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Interesting email from Musk to employees this week...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-mu ... otage.html

Quote:

From: Elon Musk

To: Everybody

Subject: Some concerning news

June 17, 2018

11:57 p.m.

I was dismayed to learn this weekend about a Tesla employee who had conducted quite extensive and damaging sabotage to our operations. This included making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System under false usernames and exporting large amounts of highly sensitive Tesla data to unknown third parties.

The full extent of his actions are not yet clear, but what he has admitted to so far is pretty bad. His stated motivation is that he wanted a promotion that he did not receive. In light of these actions, not promoting him was definitely the right move.

However, there may be considerably more to this situation than meets the eye, so the investigation will continue in depth this week. We need to figure out if he was acting alone or with others at Tesla and if he was working with any outside organizations.

As you know, there are a long list of organizations that want Tesla to die. These include Wall Street short-sellers, who have already lost billions of dollars and stand to lose a lot more. Then there are the oil & gas companies, the wealthiest industry in the world — they don't love the idea of Tesla advancing the progress of solar power & electric cars. Don't want to blow your mind, but rumor has it that those companies are sometimes not super nice. Then there are the multitude of big gas/diesel car company competitors. If they're willing to cheat so much about emissions, maybe they're willing to cheat in other ways?

Most of the time, when there is theft of goods, leaking of confidential information, dereliction of duty or outright sabotage, the reason really is something simple like wanting to get back at someone within the company or at the company as a whole. Occasionally, it is much more serious.

Please be extremely vigilant, particularly over the next few weeks as we ramp up the production rate to 5k/week. This is when outside forces have the strongest motivation to stop us.

If you know of, see or suspect anything suspicious, please send a note to [email address removed for privacy] with as much info as possible. This can be done in your name, which will be kept confidential, or completely anonymously.

Looking forward to having a great week with you as we charge up the super exciting ramp to 5000 Model 3 cars per week!

Will follow this up with emails every few days describing the progress and challenges of the Model 3 ramp.

Thanks for working so hard to make Tesla successful,
Elon


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:51 am 
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I don't want to go full tinfoil hat...but that is all quite convenient if the company is doing poorly for other reasons other than sabotage, i.e., false flag to gain sympathy?


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:10 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
I don't want to go full tinfoil hat...but that is all quite convenient if the company is doing poorly for other reasons other than sabotage, i.e., false flag to gain sympathy?


That would be a risky move from a regulatory point of view... making a claim like that without substance would incur penalties of some sort.

Actually... I dunno Jeff, that's just too out there. It's the sort of thing you'd expect to read on PR, for instance.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:17 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Interesting email from Musk to employees this week...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-mu ... otage.html

Quote:


As you know, there are a long list of organizations that want Tesla to die. These include Wall Street short-sellers, who have already lost billions of dollars and stand to lose a lot more. Then there are the oil & gas companies, the wealthiest industry in the world — they don't love the idea of Tesla advancing the progress of solar power & electric cars. Don't want to blow your mind, but rumor has it that those companies are sometimes not super nice. Then there are the multitude of big gas/diesel car company competitors. If they're willing to cheat so much about emissions, maybe they're willing to cheat in other ways?

Elon


Huh? That horse has bolted. If Tesla died tomorrow, electric cars and the path we are on wouldn't.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:44 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Interesting email from Musk to employees this week...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-mu ... otage.html

Quote:


As you know, there are a long list of organizations that want Tesla to die. These include Wall Street short-sellers, who have already lost billions of dollars and stand to lose a lot more. Then there are the oil & gas companies, the wealthiest industry in the world — they don't love the idea of Tesla advancing the progress of solar power & electric cars. Don't want to blow your mind, but rumor has it that those companies are sometimes not super nice. Then there are the multitude of big gas/diesel car company competitors. If they're willing to cheat so much about emissions, maybe they're willing to cheat in other ways?

Elon


Huh? That horse has bolted. If Tesla died tomorrow, electric cars and the path we are on wouldn't.

TBD they would like it to take as long as possible to get to the promised land


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:52 am 
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Anon is correct. Also
Sensible Stephen wrote:
Huh? That horse has bolted. If Tesla died tomorrow, electric cars and the path we are on wouldn't.

Not necessarily because it's not only about the path.

It's also the speed of going down that path.

Tesla is disrupting the top-end market segments. The Germans; Mercedes, Audi, BMW and their like don't have an electric version to adequately compete at the moment and are still on the combustion engine path.

They have been reverse-engineering the fuck out of Tesla, even as recently as 3 months ago.

If they can steal back 12 to 18 months out of the lead in terms of tech, it's worth its weight in gold.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:58 am 
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kiap wrote:
Anon is correct. Also
Sensible Stephen wrote:
Huh? That horse has bolted. If Tesla died tomorrow, electric cars and the path we are on wouldn't.

Not necessarily because it's not only about the path.

It's also the speed of going down that path.

Tesla is disrupting the top-end market segments. The Germans; Mercedes, Audi, BMW and their like don't have an electric version to adequately compete at the moment and are still on the combustion engine path.

They have been reverse-engineering the fuck out of Tesla, even as recently as 3 months ago.

If they can steal back 12 to 18 months out of the lead in terms of tech, it's worth its weight in gold.


Maybe. But I tend to think the critical path will be cultural rather than technological. In theory we could go self driving electric/hybrid/petrol cars tomorrow. I think people will take a lot longer to warm up to the idea.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:13 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
Maybe. But I tend to think the critical path will be cultural rather than technological. In theory we could go self driving electric/hybrid/petrol cars tomorrow. I think people will take a lot longer to warm up to the idea.

I think "self driving" is a separate (albeit related) issue. But you can even take it out of the equation for the moment. Tesla is attracting customers based on good EV tech as well.

GM is also in that picture now, but let's not forget they've canned their electric vehicles before. If it wasn't for new competition including new entrants, they likely still wouldn't be bothering.

Obviously where Tesla is yet unproven is in high volume production.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:30 am 
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kiap wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
Maybe. But I tend to think the critical path will be cultural rather than technological. In theory we could go self driving electric/hybrid/petrol cars tomorrow. I think people will take a lot longer to warm up to the idea.

I think "self driving" is a separate (albeit related) issue. But you can even take it out of the equation for the moment. Tesla is attracting customers based on good EV tech as well.

GM is also in that picture now, but let's not forget they've canned their electric vehicles before. If it wasn't for new competition including new entrants, they likely still wouldn't be bothering.

Obviously where Tesla is yet unproven is in high volume production.


Yeah, maybe I will be a true believer when (if) Tesla start pumping out $35k cars in any significant capacity. Until then I will continue to believe it will be the traditional car manufacturers selling electric cars to the unwashed masses.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:37 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
kiap wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
Maybe. But I tend to think the critical path will be cultural rather than technological. In theory we could go self driving electric/hybrid/petrol cars tomorrow. I think people will take a lot longer to warm up to the idea.

I think "self driving" is a separate (albeit related) issue. But you can even take it out of the equation for the moment. Tesla is attracting customers based on good EV tech as well.

GM is also in that picture now, but let's not forget they've canned their electric vehicles before. If it wasn't for new competition including new entrants, they likely still wouldn't be bothering.

Obviously where Tesla is yet unproven is in high volume production.


Yeah, maybe I will be a true believer when (if) Tesla start pumping out $35k cars in any significant capacity. Until then I will continue to believe it will be the traditional car manufacturers selling electric cars to the unwashed masses.

TBH, I'm not much of a true believer and don't really want to be swinging on Musk.

Longer term, it will be irrelevant which badge goes on the cars. I wouldn't even be surprised if Musk is eventually bought out by an existing maker.

However, without the kick up the arse to the industry that Tesla (or similar) provides, the transition would be taking a lot longer.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:44 am 
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kiap wrote:
TBH, I'm not much of a true believer and don't really want to be swinging on Musk.

Longer term, it will be irrelevant which badge goes on the cars. I wouldn't even be surprised if Musk is eventually bought out by an existing maker.

However, without the kick up the arse to the industry that Tesla (or similar) provides, the transition would be taking a lot longer.


I agree Tesla was the kick up the ass the industry needed.

I don't know, I am a bit over Musk over promising stuff, so am more hopeful than anything that the other brands forge on and Tesla just stays niche. (Not because I hate Tesla, just I don't trust them to be able to deliver).


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:22 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
I don't want to go full tinfoil hat...but that is all quite convenient if the company is doing poorly for other reasons other than sabotage, i.e., false flag to gain sympathy?


That would be a risky move from a regulatory point of view... making a claim like that without substance would incur penalties of some sort.

Actually... I dunno Jeff, that's just too out there. It's the sort of thing you'd expect to read on PR, for instance.

There is not a vehicle manufacturer in existence that has not had disgruntled employees doing acts of sabotage. What is a bit odd is flinging a load of shit out there about big oil and other vehicle manufacturers....


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:26 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Interesting email from Musk to employees this week...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-mu ... otage.html

Quote:


As you know, there are a long list of organizations that want Tesla to die. These include Wall Street short-sellers, who have already lost billions of dollars and stand to lose a lot more. Then there are the oil & gas companies, the wealthiest industry in the world — they don't love the idea of Tesla advancing the progress of solar power & electric cars. Don't want to blow your mind, but rumor has it that those companies are sometimes not super nice. Then there are the multitude of big gas/diesel car company competitors. If they're willing to cheat so much about emissions, maybe they're willing to cheat in other ways?

Elon


Huh? That horse has bolted. If Tesla died tomorrow, electric cars and the path we are on wouldn't.

TBD they would like it to take as long as possible to get to the promised land

Regulatory requirements are driving electrification. The issue is being able to profitably make vehicles that customers want (price, range etc.). All OEMs are spending shit loads on electrification, but they realise that there is not a one-size-fits-all product for all customers and all markets.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:29 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
I don't want to go full tinfoil hat...but that is all quite convenient if the company is doing poorly for other reasons other than sabotage, i.e., false flag to gain sympathy?


That would be a risky move from a regulatory point of view... making a claim like that without substance would incur penalties of some sort.

Actually... I dunno Jeff, that's just too out there. It's the sort of thing you'd expect to read on PR, for instance.



Except he's not made a statement to shareholders , he's sent a bizarre email to his employees which has been "leaked" .... There's his defence position anyway.

It's tremendously oddly worded and of course not written to Bob in accounts in any way.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:31 am 
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kiap wrote:
Anon is correct. Also
Sensible Stephen wrote:
Huh? That horse has bolted. If Tesla died tomorrow, electric cars and the path we are on wouldn't.

Not necessarily because it's not only about the path.

It's also the speed of going down that path.

Tesla is disrupting the top-end market segments. The Germans; Mercedes, Audi, BMW and their like don't have an electric version to adequately compete at the moment and are still on the combustion engine path.

They have been reverse-engineering the fuck out of Tesla, even as recently as 3 months ago.

If they can steal back 12 to 18 months out of the lead in terms of tech, it's worth its weight in gold.


Mercedes , BMW and Audi are launching products in the next 12 months that will be serious competition for Tesla.

All OEMs (including Tesla) benchmark/reverse-engineers other OEMs products. There are even companies like A2Mac1 who provide tear-down and benchmarking data to them.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:26 am 
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Tesla have a huge headstart over the legacy manufacturers with their supercharger network.

I have owned an EV for nearly a year now, and it's great. Hyundai Ioniq. I have done a public charge twice in that time, and one of those was a test run for when I needed the charge to complete the journey the next day. I am, however, aware that whilst most people don't habitually need to use the public charging network, it is a mess of competing providers, with apps, RFID cards and the like, exclusive to that particular provider. It resembles the supply of electricity in the UK pre-Central Electricity Board. This could be solved by legislation to force all providers to recognise everyone else's apps, or better still, shitcan the bloody apps and go to contactless/PIN.

The Supercharger network, rolled out in huge numbers and with free access for most users to date (not for the Model 3) has given Tesla a real USP - even now, the I-Pace, Taycan (Mission E), E-Tron and EQ, the "Tesla killers" from Jaguar, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes respectively, all of which are either on the market or coming in the next year, still don't have an equivalent. There are moves afoot to rectify this - the Ionity network has big plans, for example, but it's not there yet.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:33 am 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
Tesla have a huge headstart over the legacy manufacturers with their supercharger network.

I have owned an EV for nearly a year now, and it's great. Hyundai Ioniq. I have done a public charge twice in that time, and one of those was a test run for when I needed the charge to complete the journey the next day. I am, however, aware that whilst most people don't habitually need to use the public charging network, it is a mess of competing providers, with apps, RFID cards and the like, exclusive to that particular provider. It resembles the supply of electricity in the UK pre-Central Electricity Board. This could be solved by legislation to force all providers to recognise everyone else's apps, or better still, shitcan the bloody apps and go to contactless/PIN.

The Supercharger network, rolled out in huge numbers and with free access for most users to date (not for the Model 3) has given Tesla a real USP - even now, the I-Pace, Taycan (Mission E), E-Tron and EQ, the "Tesla killers" from Jaguar, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes respectively, all of which are either on the market or coming in the next year, still don't have an equivalent. There are moves afoot to rectify this - the Ionity network has big plans, for example, but it's not there yet.


The logical solution here is a model similar to petrol retailing with charge points operating as service stations and there's a market opening there for Tesla, obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:41 am 
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Quote:
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/51.8095817,0.8958556999999701,51.6728652,0.5924257000000352,d?search=supercharger&name=Maldon%20CM9,%20UK



Doesn't look like it would cost much to over come in the UK.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:31 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
Tesla have a huge headstart over the legacy manufacturers with their supercharger network.

I have owned an EV for nearly a year now, and it's great. Hyundai Ioniq. I have done a public charge twice in that time, and one of those was a test run for when I needed the charge to complete the journey the next day. I am, however, aware that whilst most people don't habitually need to use the public charging network, it is a mess of competing providers, with apps, RFID cards and the like, exclusive to that particular provider. It resembles the supply of electricity in the UK pre-Central Electricity Board. This could be solved by legislation to force all providers to recognise everyone else's apps, or better still, shitcan the bloody apps and go to contactless/PIN.

The Supercharger network, rolled out in huge numbers and with free access for most users to date (not for the Model 3) has given Tesla a real USP - even now, the I-Pace, Taycan (Mission E), E-Tron and EQ, the "Tesla killers" from Jaguar, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes respectively, all of which are either on the market or coming in the next year, still don't have an equivalent. There are moves afoot to rectify this - the Ionity network has big plans, for example, but it's not there yet.


The logical solution here is a model similar to petrol retailing with charge points operating as service stations and there's a market opening there for Tesla, obviously.


There IS a market opening, but it's unlikely to be like existing service stations, or at least not ONLY like existing stations.
Potentially the majority of charging will be at home meaning far fewer charging stations than petrol stations.
The other likely location to charge will be at carparks. Either your or commercial carparks might offer a portion of spots with trickle chargers. Super chargers really only being necessary if you are making a long trip.
We might also see owners of electric cars rent plug in hybrids for long trips rather than have the inconvenience of waiting 45 minutes for a fast charge (assuming there is no queue)


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:40 am 
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merlin the happy pig wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
The Man Without Fear wrote:
Tesla have a huge headstart over the legacy manufacturers with their supercharger network.

I have owned an EV for nearly a year now, and it's great. Hyundai Ioniq. I have done a public charge twice in that time, and one of those was a test run for when I needed the charge to complete the journey the next day. I am, however, aware that whilst most people don't habitually need to use the public charging network, it is a mess of competing providers, with apps, RFID cards and the like, exclusive to that particular provider. It resembles the supply of electricity in the UK pre-Central Electricity Board. This could be solved by legislation to force all providers to recognise everyone else's apps, or better still, shitcan the bloody apps and go to contactless/PIN.

The Supercharger network, rolled out in huge numbers and with free access for most users to date (not for the Model 3) has given Tesla a real USP - even now, the I-Pace, Taycan (Mission E), E-Tron and EQ, the "Tesla killers" from Jaguar, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes respectively, all of which are either on the market or coming in the next year, still don't have an equivalent. There are moves afoot to rectify this - the Ionity network has big plans, for example, but it's not there yet.


The logical solution here is a model similar to petrol retailing with charge points operating as service stations and there's a market opening there for Tesla, obviously.


There IS a market opening, but it's unlikely to be like existing service stations, or at least not ONLY like existing stations.
Potentially the majority of charging will be at home meaning far fewer charging stations than petrol stations.
The other likely location to charge will be at carparks. Either your or commercial carparks might offer a portion of spots with trickle chargers. Super chargers really only being necessary if you are making a long trip.
We might also see owners of electric cars rent plug in hybrids for long trips rather than have the inconvenience of waiting 45 minutes for a fast charge (assuming there is no queue)


There's a recharging network in Australia's South West set up by the RAC (AA) which allows anyone with an EV to access charging in decent range across the SW corner, which is excellent planning for Perth based drivers. I've seen recharging points at a suburban shopping centre carpark somewhere here, too...

and there's talk now that EV's hooking up to the grid can be utilised by smart networks as part of a battery back up for renewable generation... charge during the day when domestic demand is low and feed back in later during peak periods.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:26 pm 
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One of the biggest dangers to Tesla is the fact that the Japanese and I believe Korea and half of china see hydrogen as a better alternative than battery. Batteries contains minerals that are finite and un recyclable so the price is only going to go up and up

Japan is installing hydrogen stations everywhere and China is following suit. The great war will be between Hydrogen and Battery not between competing electric car firms

Toyota and Honda and Hyundai and others are all going for hydrogen over battery

I think Euro car makers are being very stupid seemingly putting all their efforts towards ev


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:33 pm 
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goose81 wrote:
One of the biggest dangers to Tesla is the fact that the Japanese and I believe Korea and half of china see hydrogen as a better alternative than battery. Batteries contains minerals that are finite and un recyclable so the price is only going to go up and up

Japan is installing hydrogen stations everywhere and China is following suit. The great war will be between Hydrogen and Battery not between competing electric car firms

Toyota and Honda and Hyundai and others are all going for hydrogen over battery

I think Euro car makers are being very stupid seemingly putting all their efforts towards ev


Hydrogen is interesting and some kind of hydrogen turbine hybrid would be cool...

but China are investing heavily in EV and are setting up to control battery production through their rare earth stocks.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Recently read Musk’s biography. Bloke seems like a complete chancer.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:40 pm 
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People who break the mould tend to be, Duff.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:47 pm 
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There’s a fight back in Europe from clean diesel and small powerful petroleum, the tech will almost certainly end up in hybrids.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:55 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
People who break the mould tend to be, Duff.

Just like Elizabeth Holmes :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
People who break the mould tend to be, Duff.

Just like Elizabeth Holmes :lol:


I had to google the name...and :lol: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:03 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
People who break the mould tend to be, Duff.

Just like Elizabeth Holmes :lol:


I had to google the name...and :lol: :thumbup:


There’s a movie coming out about her next year. Absolutely fascinating chancer that almost got away with it. Modelled herself on steve jobs - black turtle necks, affected a deep voice, the whole god like persona etc. Nearly, very nearly got away with it. Only the technology the company was based upon didn’t actually exist.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
People who break the mould tend to be, Duff.

Just like Elizabeth Holmes :lol:


I had to google the name...and :lol: :thumbup:


There’s a movie coming out about her next year. Absolutely fascinating chancer that almost got away with it. Modelled herself on steve jobs - black turtle necks, affected a deep voice, the whole god like persona etc. Nearly, very nearly got away with it. Only the technology the company was based upon didn’t actually exist.


A mere trifle.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:24 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
There’s a fight back in Europe from clean diesel and small powerful petroleum, the tech will almost certainly end up in hybrids.


"Clean diesel"

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:40 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
bimboman wrote:
There’s a fight back in Europe from clean diesel and small powerful petroleum, the tech will almost certainly end up in hybrids.


"Clean diesel"

:lol: :lol: :lol:



Well yes. Much of the lowering of emissions reported in Europe has been because of lower hydrocarbon fuel use.

The diesel industry hasn't just packed up and gone away. The tech is being improved all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
People who break the mould tend to be, Duff.

Just like Elizabeth Holmes :lol:


I had to google the name...and :lol: :thumbup:


There’s a movie coming out about her next year. Absolutely fascinating chancer that almost got away with it. Modelled herself on steve jobs - black turtle necks, affected a deep voice, the whole god like persona etc. Nearly, very nearly got away with it. Only the technology the company was based upon didn’t actually exist.


Her Indian partner / boyfriend is equally a dubious character. Been following this car crash for years as its been quite a story in the alt right.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Silicon Valley seems to be full of chancers looking for the next industry to “disrupt”. There also seems to be plenty of mega wealthy investors happy to back up these lunatics in fear of missing out on the next Zuckerberg. It is truly remarkable that Holmes got into Walgreens with a technology that didn’t work, like batshit insane that they fooled the board of Walgreens with essentially a bait and switch. I got the chancer vibe from Musk when he was giving himself glowing school reports at odds with the recollections of his teachers and lecturers. At least he seems to have delivered somewhat.


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 Post subject: Re: IS TESLA GOING BUST
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Quote:
"Just because ... I've always believed innocent until proven guilty. And she is an entrepreneur, her mission was to change healthcare as we know it, to make it an easier system, and she was doing really good work. And then she got the attack, and the attack came so soon, I believe she wasn't prepared for it."


The above is a quote from Tim Draper a billionaire backer of Theranos. It’s like he’s still in the cult. Just because Holmes wanted to disrupt the blood testing industry doesn’t mean she had the means to do so. Siemens must have been laughing as they watched theranos order more and more of their machines.


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