Planet Rugby Forum

Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

RWC2015 wrote:Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

I don’t think any are in service yet in the UK.

Sandstorm wrote:

RWC2015 wrote:Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

I don’t think any are in service yet in the UK.

No, that's why I was so surprised.

These guys are market leaders:

https://www.proterra.com/

RWC2015 wrote:

Sandstorm wrote:

RWC2015 wrote:Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

I don’t think any are in service yet in the UK.

No, that's why I was so surprised.

These guys are market leaders:

https://www.proterra.com/

Looks cool. I saw loads of Chinese-made electric buses in Lisbon last year.

UK Govt seem totally disinterested in even trying.

What. A. Surprise.

Electric buses already operating in Edinburgh, York, London has Europe's largest hybrid fleet already and is moving to Electric only purchases from this year forward. Apparently the UK is leading the way in Europe with 18% of all Electric buses in Europe

wheely wrote:

Armchair_Superstar wrote:

wheely wrote:

Armchair_Superstar wrote:
I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.

I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.

I think that's true with every kind of heavier vehicle. I think the way things have gone in Scandinavia is showing the UK government isn't really committed to making cleaner motoring cheaper. If we went electric it would need to be on the practical car in the garage and managing the recharging is still a ballache in the UK&I. I have a mate who tried to bring customers from London to a manufacturer in the South West, messed up his recharging strategy and ended up wasting a lot of their time.

For me, i think this is why Tesla is still the only real EV option for those who even occasionally do a long trip. The super charger network allows you to match the journey time of a non EV driver who takes occasional coffee/pee breaks maybe every two to three hours plus, at least for me, its free. Even in the UK I think this is possible.

Until the other manufacturers can provide a continent wide super fast charging network such as Tesla has, I don't think I'd consider another electric vehicle except for daily commutes or shorter journeys.

Driving through Spain and Portugal last year I was keeping an eye out for ANY sort charging point as I am still considering options for my next new car. Rapidly came to the conclusion that currently it's a non-starter - way too many part of Europe that you would run out of juice at the moment

Saint wrote:

wheely wrote:

Armchair_Superstar wrote:

wheely wrote:

Armchair_Superstar wrote:
I saw the SUV-sized one the other day and it isn't as brutal as it looks in the press photos. I have been wondering how they go in the snow but they haven't got cheap enough yet for us to seriously look at one.

I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.

I think that's true with every kind of heavier vehicle. I think the way things have gone in Scandinavia is showing the UK government isn't really committed to making cleaner motoring cheaper. If we went electric it would need to be on the practical car in the garage and managing the recharging is still a ballache in the UK&I. I have a mate who tried to bring customers from London to a manufacturer in the South West, messed up his recharging strategy and ended up wasting a lot of their time.

For me, i think this is why Tesla is still the only real EV option for those who even occasionally do a long trip. The super charger network allows you to match the journey time of a non EV driver who takes occasional coffee/pee breaks maybe every two to three hours plus, at least for me, its free. Even in the UK I think this is possible.

Until the other manufacturers can provide a continent wide super fast charging network such as Tesla has, I don't think I'd consider another electric vehicle except for daily commutes or shorter journeys.

Driving through Spain and Portugal last year I was keeping an eye out for ANY sort charging point as I am still considering options for my next new car. Rapidly came to the conclusion that currently it's a non-starter - way too many part of Europe that you would run out of juice at the moment

Tesla are making a good go of it though. Red are superchargers already installed, grey to be completed this year and with a minimum range of 350km in a tesla you could make your trip now.

RWC2015 wrote:Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

They laid me off in late 2012, so I don't know about since then, but when I left Cummins, we had 100% of the transit bus market - I know that's true because I was the engineer that had to make it all happen when certain elements turned out underdesigned with brand new customers after our competition pulled out - and we had large percentages of the school bus and city bus market. There were some communities we sold hybrids too because it was all they said they would buy. Might've changed in the 5 years since.

What's really understated that no one talks about is natural gas engines. Was big in certain areas for buses.

If someone brand new I've never heard of has 10% of the bus market, I'd love to be able to see their ongoing maintenance bill. Transit buses especially are an absolutely brutal application.

When I can charge a vehicle in 5-10 minutes, I will get excited

Until then, the hybrids seem to make more sense

Sandstorm wrote:

RWC2015 wrote:Electric busses are absolutely killing it at the moment in the US. I had no idea but apparently 1/10 busses sold is now fully electric

Spreadsheet buyers etc.

I don’t think any are in service yet in the UK.

Most of the airports I visit are using fully electric busses on tarmac. They have loads of roof space for solar and the journeys are tiny, plus is makes them look green. Flying obviously is the opposite of green

_fatprop wrote:When I can charge a vehicle in 5-10 minutes, I will get excited

Until then, the hybrids seem to make more sense

Not wishing to sound all evangelical and everything but if you want to charge from zero to full, it will indeed take a couple of hours at a tesla super charger because the first 20% and the last 10% take ages. However, nobody ever does that because it's unnecessary. When you get nearly 500km range per hour when charging at a super charger and the next super charger is about 100km away max, you rarely need to stay anywhere long.

I only occasionally wait more time than it takes to have a pee, smoke a cigarette or get myself a coffee when travelling anywhere. Car is also always fully charged when I wake up in the morning too.

Hybrids sound good but there is a lot more maintenance than in an EV and really, in my experience at least, I just don't need that extra engine in there.

wheely wrote:

Saint wrote:

wheely wrote:

Armchair_Superstar wrote:

wheely wrote:
I have one, the Model X, and live in Norway. The thing in unbelievable in snow. Drives through over a foot of fresh fallen snow as if it wasn't there. I just came back from 1000km drive over the mountains and back. Temperature -20C and all sorts of wintery crap on the roads with no issues at all. Can be a bit scary if it does lose it on ice though. It's a very heavy car and if it starts to slide, well, it slides.

I think that's true with every kind of heavier vehicle. I think the way things have gone in Scandinavia is showing the UK government isn't really committed to making cleaner motoring cheaper. If we went electric it would need to be on the practical car in the garage and managing the recharging is still a ballache in the UK&I. I have a mate who tried to bring customers from London to a manufacturer in the South West, messed up his recharging strategy and ended up wasting a lot of their time.

For me, i think this is why Tesla is still the only real EV option for those who even occasionally do a long trip. The super charger network allows you to match the journey time of a non EV driver who takes occasional coffee/pee breaks maybe every two to three hours plus, at least for me, its free. Even in the UK I think this is possible.

Until the other manufacturers can provide a continent wide super fast charging network such as Tesla has, I don't think I'd consider another electric vehicle except for daily commutes or shorter journeys.

Driving through Spain and Portugal last year I was keeping an eye out for ANY sort charging point as I am still considering options for my next new car. Rapidly came to the conclusion that currently it's a non-starter - way too many part of Europe that you would run out of juice at the moment

Tesla are making a good go of it though. Red are superchargers already installed, grey to be completed this year and with a minimum range of 350km in a tesla you could make your trip now.

Not convinced. I'd want to see closer to 4 times the density of chargers i think, unless there was going to be a charge point installed at the place i stayed. You'd be going out of your way to get a charge far too often even if when all the greys turn red.

wheely wrote:

_fatprop wrote:When I can charge a vehicle in 5-10 minutes, I will get excited

Until then, the hybrids seem to make more sense

Not wishing to sound all evangelical and everything but if you want to charge from zero to full, it will indeed take a couple of hours at a tesla super charger because the first 20% and the last 10% take ages. However, nobody ever does that because it's unnecessary. When you get nearly 500km range per hour when charging at a super charger and the next super charger is about 100km away max, you rarely need to stay anywhere long.

I only occasionally wait more time than it takes to have a pee, smoke a cigarette or get myself a coffee when travelling anywhere. Car is also always fully charged when I wake up in the morning too.

Hybrids sound good but there is a lot more maintenance than in an EV and really, in my experience at least, I just don't need that extra engine in there.

I think like most things, a compromise such as hybrids are a more reasonable initial step especially when there will be a long time before the support logistics are ramped up.

guy smiley wrote:I'm all for smart technology improving our lives and I find it amusing that while all the attention has been on Tesla and auto makers playing catch up, a bus company appears to have just got on with it and produced a serious contender.. I first heard about them when they got something like 1000km out of a charge.

All this EV takeup means a need for more power generation though, and that's where we need a revolution. Our power demands are rising at a phenomenal rate... we really need some smart thinking there.

As an aside, I read an article recently talking to one of the Mercedes F1 team designer / engineer dude, forgotten his name... he was asked what he'd come up with if asked to design the next Mercedes S class. and the short answer is a hybrid running a small capacity V twin hi-po engine hooked up with all the same tech as F1 for power capture, storage drive and generation. Really interesting thinking... very low fuel consumption, very high performance.

That's why the engine manufacturers wanted this engine formula - this has been their vision for a LONG time

Saint wrote:
Not convinced. I'd want to see closer to 4 times the density of chargers i think, unless there was going to be a charge point installed at the place i stayed. You'd be going out of your way to get a charge far too often even if when all the greys turn red.

I certainly understand your thinking and it's how I thought until I actually bought one which I only did because I couldn't decide between a Renault Zoe (to save on commuting expenses) or a Mitsubishi Outlander (to carry stuff in) and so got the bastard offspring of them both.

It's hard to explain though why you don't need to go out of your way much if at all when travelling. Tesla provides destination chargers at locations that ask for them. They are pretty quick but not as fast as super chargers. Looking at Tesla's map, Portugal has about a hundred locations with them in hotels and restaurants around the tourist spots. Spain has loads more. More than that, most hotels let you plug in to a standard 13A plug socket which will charge you overnight while you sleep but in most cases, you have enough range that you don't need to charge at your destination at all.

You only really get to understand this until you try it of course and when you do try one, you also get to see just how good a top end EV is to drive and how damn fast it is. Not sure I could ever go back to an ICE.

wheely wrote:

Saint wrote:
Not convinced. I'd want to see closer to 4 times the density of chargers i think, unless there was going to be a charge point installed at the place i stayed. You'd be going out of your way to get a charge far too often even if when all the greys turn red.

I certainly understand your thinking and it's how I thought until I actually bought one which I only did because I couldn't decide between a Renault Zoe (to save on commuting expenses) or a Mitsubishi Outlander (to carry stuff in) and so got the bastard offspring of them both.

It's hard to explain though why you don't need to go out of your way much if at all when travelling. Tesla provides destination chargers at locations that ask for them. They are pretty quick but not as fast as super chargers. Looking at Tesla's map, Portugal has about a hundred locations with them in hotels and restaurants around the tourist spots. Spain has loads more. More than that, most hotels let you plug in to a standard 13A plug socket which will charge you overnight while you sleep but in most cases, you have enough range that you don't need to charge at your destination at all.

You only really get to understand this until you try it of course and when you do try one, you also get to see just how good a top end EV is to drive and how damn fast it is. Not sure I could ever go back to an ICE.

So, just looked at where we stayed and the surrounding area. Nearest supercharger will be 40 miles away, no destination charger, and there's no way I could have run a 13A cable to the car. And that wasn't particularly off the beaten track.....

Seriously, this isn't viable at the moment if you want to do anything other than a fairly regular commute

EverReady wrote:Has anybody ever actually seen a Tesla? I haven't and I am not confined to my bed.

I see them all the time. At least once a day. I'd love one.

Saint wrote:

wheely wrote:

Saint wrote:
Not convinced. I'd want to see closer to 4 times the density of chargers i think, unless there was going to be a charge point installed at the place i stayed. You'd be going out of your way to get a charge far too often even if when all the greys turn red.

I certainly understand your thinking and it's how I thought until I actually bought one which I only did because I couldn't decide between a Renault Zoe (to save on commuting expenses) or a Mitsubishi Outlander (to carry stuff in) and so got the bastard offspring of them both.

It's hard to explain though why you don't need to go out of your way much if at all when travelling. Tesla provides destination chargers at locations that ask for them. They are pretty quick but not as fast as super chargers. Looking at Tesla's map, Portugal has about a hundred locations with them in hotels and restaurants around the tourist spots. Spain has loads more. More than that, most hotels let you plug in to a standard 13A plug socket which will charge you overnight while you sleep but in most cases, you have enough range that you don't need to charge at your destination at all.

You only really get to understand this until you try it of course and when you do try one, you also get to see just how good a top end EV is to drive and how damn fast it is. Not sure I could ever go back to an ICE.

So, just looked at where we stayed and the surrounding area. Nearest supercharger will be 40 miles away, no destination charger, and there's no way I could have run a 13A cable to the car. And that wasn't particularly off the beaten track.....

Seriously, this isn't viable at the moment if you want to do anything other than a fairly regular commute

Well our experiences with Tesla driving are perhaps different. I do 120km commute each day. Last week I drove an unplanned 1000km over mountains and back in -20C. Two weeks before that I drove 400km and instead of charging at my destination as planned, decided to turn around and come home instead. Three days ago I drove to a hotel in the mountains some 200 hundred km away, stayed three nights without charging and then drove home. So it can be viable though maybe not for you.

I'd like an electric van- i never do more than 45 miles a day.

Saint wrote:Electric buses already operating in Edinburgh, York, London has Europe's largest hybrid fleet already and is moving to Electric only purchases from this year forward. Apparently the UK is leading the way in Europe with 18% of all Electric buses in Europe

Well that told me then.

The Native wrote:

EverReady wrote:Has anybody ever actually seen a Tesla? I haven't and I am not confined to my bed.

I see them all the time. At least once a day. I'd love one.

I have to say I think they don’t look the money. BMW i8 now that’s a beast

paddyor wrote:

The Sun God wrote:An old petrol-head like myself is yet to be convinced about the whole electric/hybrid phenomenon but there is no doubt that the Tesla S is a serious piece of kit.

Won't that be a bit of problem in France over the next or so years or are they waffling when they say they're getting rid of the combustion engine completely?

2040 is the date they are talking about and Paris want to ban non EV's from 2030 but I will believe it when I see it. The French like to think they are taking the lead on certain issues but places like the Netherlands will decouple from the petrol engine years before the French.
Nobody is going to ban petrol engines, you will pay and probably pay quite dearly to drive them for pleasure but an outright ban won't happen IMO.

argus wrote:

Saint wrote:Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust

The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 76881.html

Tesla on autopilot crashes into police car

etherman wrote:

argus wrote:

Saint wrote:Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust

The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.

http://bettingonzeromovie.com/

It's on netflix.

etherman wrote:

argus wrote:

Saint wrote:Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust

The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.

Good documentary on Netflix

Rumham wrote:

etherman wrote:

argus wrote:

Saint wrote:Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust

The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.

http://bettingonzeromovie.com/

It's on netflix.

Oh right. Cheers

Tesla is levered 39x net assets, there's little precedent in the S&P 500 for that. UBS issuing sell notices yesterday with a target below $200 and 1.7 billion left currently in cash which will only see out 2018. Any more dollar rate rises and they're in trouble.

etherman wrote:

Rumham wrote:

etherman wrote:

argus wrote:

Saint wrote:Tesla is going through another funding round, it's shades are almost certainly overvalued, and there's some hedge fund managers with enormous short positions who are desperately trying to talk Tesla down

It's not going bust

The hedge fund is not even that large

Not like Pershing Capital and their $1B short position on Herbalife

Here tell me more about this. I have a few friends big into Herbalife.

http://bettingonzeromovie.com/

It's on netflix.

Oh right. Cheers

Watch it soon or..

Seneca of the Night wrote:Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).

paddyor wrote:

Seneca of the Night wrote:Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).

You mean he might not be a "good guy" , who'd have thought it !

bimboman wrote:

paddyor wrote:

Seneca of the Night wrote:Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).

You mean he might not be a "good guy" , who'd have thought it !

Like most people that become successful and famous, I'm sure he was once a good guy. The problem occurs when the successful and famous read their own press clippings and start to view themselves as gods and goddesses.

Flyin Ryan wrote:

bimboman wrote:

paddyor wrote:

Seneca of the Night wrote:Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).

You mean he might not be a "good guy" , who'd have thought it !

Like most people that become successful and famous, I'm sure he was once a good guy. The problem occurs when the successful and famous read their own press clippings and start to view themselves as gods and goddesses.

Steve Jobs took it to actual god levels

paddyor wrote:

Seneca of the Night wrote:Seem to be more rumours out there that tesla is going to zero, everyone has shorted it, and musk will be lucky to avoid prison.

I seen on twitter he's planning on setting up a website to rate journos. Also an article about him "sicking" his twitter minions on one journo (though apparently a bit questionable).

What's with the cult like following Musk has?

Rumour from contacts who would know (apologies if RR) is that not only that the financial losses are mounting in their billions but also that his much vaunted production process is producing thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, fewer units than anticipated.

Not really a rumor. It was published in a news article today.

Even if they were to go bust I think they've proved the electric car is here to stay and now other more mainstream manufacturers have brought forward their own plans.

I wouldn't be shocked to see paid journalism either from the big manufacturers either to slow their progress

Duff Paddy wrote:

The Native wrote:

EverReady wrote:Has anybody ever actually seen a Tesla? I haven't and I am not confined to my bed.

I see them all the time. At least once a day. I'd love one.

I have to say I think they don’t look the money. BMW i8 now that’s a beast

They are absolutely beautiful, as people are aware I am not a car buff but one of them I would really like, I am just not prepared to spend 80k on a car!!
Best mate has one and everything about it is class!!