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Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:49 pm
by Dark
Farva wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Farva wrote:It might be that its his religion but why should that give him a free ride without criticism.
Obviously it doesn't.

Seems to be strawmen being erected on both sides here.
Not really. An argument being put forward is that as a christian he has a right to express that bexause of his religion (he does) and he then should not have the consequences of that comment because of his religion (he does not).
Its countering an argument

Keep seeing this claim, keep not seeing the example

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:24 pm
by Mick Mannock
Farva wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Farva wrote:It might be that its his religion but why should that give him a free ride without criticism.
Obviously it doesn't.

Seems to be strawmen being erected on both sides here.
Not really. An argument being put forward is that as a christian he has a right to express that bexause of his religion (he does) and he then should not have the consequences of that comment because of his religion (he does not).
Its countering an argument
He should face the consequences.

I simply think that drawing a parallel with racism is false.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:29 pm
by comets
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
comets wrote:wonder if folau supporters here will stand by his side if he calls say a melanesian or aborigines player a Nigg** or an Ab* cause the same person you are defending is the same person defending a book which allows him to say those things without repercussions ..

So Folau have no right to express the truth as he sees it ? Only atheist or non-believers have ?
you probably don't understand the definition of "truth" ..

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:32 pm
by Wilson's Toffee
comets wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
comets wrote:wonder if folau supporters here will stand by his side if he calls say a melanesian or aborigines player a Nigg** or an Ab* cause the same person you are defending is the same person defending a book which allows him to say those things without repercussions ..

So Folau have no right to express the truth as he sees it ? Only atheist or non-believers have ?
you probably don't understand the definition of "truth" ..

Ad hominem ... Attack the argument, not me.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:37 pm
by Mick Mannock
comets wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
comets wrote:wonder if folau supporters here will stand by his side if he calls say a melanesian or aborigines player a Nigg** or an Ab* cause the same person you are defending is the same person defending a book which allows him to say those things without repercussions ..

So Folau have no right to express the truth as he sees it ? Only atheist or non-believers have ?
you probably don't understand the definition of "truth" ..
You probably don't understand "as he sees it"

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:37 pm
by Turbogoat
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Ad hominem ... Attack the argument, not me.
Meanwhile, in the space of half a page on another thread:
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Comprehension problems ? Must be the shit you take to keep on fooling yourself ...
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Half a brain ... but no, I do not think you even have that, at times...
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Oomf.... Bokkom ... You've been tackled by a mouse.

Remember to grunt.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:37 pm
by Zakar
"Truth as he sees it" :lol:

That's called an opinion.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:43 pm
by Mick Mannock
Zakar wrote:"Truth as he sees it" :lol:

That's called an opinion.
Everyone seems to have one

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:48 pm
by comets
Zakar wrote:"Truth as he sees it" :lol:

That's called an opinion.
yeah he was mixing up 'truth' with 'opinions' :/

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:49 pm
by Wilson's Toffee
Turbogoat wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Ad hominem ... Attack the argument, not me.
Meanwhile, in the space of half a page on another thread:
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Comprehension problems ? Must be the shit you take to keep on fooling yourself ...
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Half a brain ... but no, I do not think you even have that, at times...
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Oomf.... Bokkom ... You've been tackled by a mouse.

Remember to grunt.

You don't have an argument. You just talk shit.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:50 pm
by Turbogoat
:lol:

I wasn't going to ask for another example, but that's a good one.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:19 pm
by Mog The Almighty
Farva wrote:and he then should not have the consequences of that comment because of his religion
If anyone is actually making that argument? I've yet to see it. Maybe I just missed it.
Mick Mannock wrote:I simply think that drawing a parallel with racism is false.
How so? I don't see a huge amount of difference.

I support his right to say racist things and his right to say homophobic things. And I support the right of anyone else to call him a deadset ignorant dickhead for it.

Although I think a much more useful and "bigger man" response would be a genuine attempt to get through his thick head instead of just calling him names. The guy is obviously brain-washed with ultra-conservative religious dogma. The answer is more speech, better speech, not silencing things you don't like hearing.

A newspaper column that calmly explained the counter-argument to his idiotic "gays are going to hell" stance in a calm, rational, scientific manner would be more than welcome, instead of focussing on individual virtue signalling and outrage. Even if he's too far gone for it to sink in, some naive people that would be influenced by him maybe swayed, instead of doubling down on the flawed belief that their "rights" are being infringed upon.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:30 pm
by Mick Mannock
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Farva wrote:and he then should not have the consequences of that comment because of his religion
If anyone is actually making that argument? I've yet to see it. Maybe I just missed it.
Mick Mannock wrote:I simply think that drawing a parallel with racism is false.
How so? I don't see a huge amount of difference.

I support his right to say racist things and his right to say homophobic things. And I support the right of anyone else to call him a deadset ignorant dickhead for it.

Although I think a much more useful and "bigger man" response would be a genuine attempt to get through his thick head instead of just calling him names. The guy is obviously brain-washed with ultra-conservative religious dogma. The answer is more speech, better speech, not silencing things you don't like hearing.

A newspaper column that calmly explained the counter-argument to his idiotic "gays are going to hell" stance in a calm, rational, scientific manner would be more than welcome, instead of focussing on individual virtue signalling and outrage. Even if he's too far gone for it to sink in, some naive people that would be influenced by him maybe swayed, instead of doubling down on the flawed belief that their "rights" are being infringed upon.
Because he said that unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell. In other words, he feels it is a sin.

How does one ask God's forgiveness for being a particular race, and repent of it?

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:35 pm
by Farva
Mick Mannock wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Farva wrote:and he then should not have the consequences of that comment because of his religion
If anyone is actually making that argument? I've yet to see it. Maybe I just missed it.
Mick Mannock wrote:I simply think that drawing a parallel with racism is false.
How so? I don't see a huge amount of difference.

I support his right to say racist things and his right to say homophobic things. And I support the right of anyone else to call him a deadset ignorant dickhead for it.

Although I think a much more useful and "bigger man" response would be a genuine attempt to get through his thick head instead of just calling him names. The guy is obviously brain-washed with ultra-conservative religious dogma. The answer is more speech, better speech, not silencing things you don't like hearing.

A newspaper column that calmly explained the counter-argument to his idiotic "gays are going to hell" stance in a calm, rational, scientific manner would be more than welcome, instead of focussing on individual virtue signalling and outrage. Even if he's too far gone for it to sink in, some naive people that would be influenced by him maybe swayed, instead of doubling down on the flawed belief that their "rights" are being infringed upon.
Because he said that unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell. In other words, he feels it is a sin.

How does one ask God's forgiveness for being a particular race, and repent of it?
How does one ask for fods forgiveness for being a particular sexual orientation? Its not a thing people choose.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:39 pm
by Mick Mannock
Farva wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Farva wrote:and he then should not have the consequences of that comment because of his religion
If anyone is actually making that argument? I've yet to see it. Maybe I just missed it.
Mick Mannock wrote:I simply think that drawing a parallel with racism is false.
How so? I don't see a huge amount of difference.

I support his right to say racist things and his right to say homophobic things. And I support the right of anyone else to call him a deadset ignorant dickhead for it.

Although I think a much more useful and "bigger man" response would be a genuine attempt to get through his thick head instead of just calling him names. The guy is obviously brain-washed with ultra-conservative religious dogma. The answer is more speech, better speech, not silencing things you don't like hearing.

A newspaper column that calmly explained the counter-argument to his idiotic "gays are going to hell" stance in a calm, rational, scientific manner would be more than welcome, instead of focussing on individual virtue signalling and outrage. Even if he's too far gone for it to sink in, some naive people that would be influenced by him maybe swayed, instead of doubling down on the flawed belief that their "rights" are being infringed upon.
Because he said that unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell. In other words, he feels it is a sin.

How does one ask God's forgiveness for being a particular race, and repent of it?
How does one ask for fods forgiveness for being a particular sexual orientation? Its not a thing people choose.
I covered that. I did not say that I agree with it.

I assume Folau means that homosexuals can repent if they stop doing homosexual sex.

A person of a particular race cannot stop being that race.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:52 pm
by BokJock
Mick Mannock wrote:
Farva wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Farva wrote:and he then should not have the consequences of that comment because of his religion
If anyone is actually making that argument? I've yet to see it. Maybe I just missed it.
Mick Mannock wrote:I simply think that drawing a parallel with racism is false.
How so? I don't see a huge amount of difference.

I support his right to say racist things and his right to say homophobic things. And I support the right of anyone else to call him a deadset ignorant dickhead for it.

Although I think a much more useful and "bigger man" response would be a genuine attempt to get through his thick head instead of just calling him names. The guy is obviously brain-washed with ultra-conservative religious dogma. The answer is more speech, better speech, not silencing things you don't like hearing.

A newspaper column that calmly explained the counter-argument to his idiotic "gays are going to hell" stance in a calm, rational, scientific manner would be more than welcome, instead of focussing on individual virtue signalling and outrage. Even if he's too far gone for it to sink in, some naive people that would be influenced by him maybe swayed, instead of doubling down on the flawed belief that their "rights" are being infringed upon.
Because he said that unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell. In other words, he feels it is a sin.

How does one ask God's forgiveness for being a particular race, and repent of it?
How does one ask for fods forgiveness for being a particular sexual orientation? Its not a thing people choose.
I covered that. I did not say that I agree with it.

I assume Folau means that homosexuals can repent if they stop doing homosexual sex.

A person of a particular race cannot stop being that race.
#michaeljackson

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:59 pm
by Farva
Mick Mannock wrote:
Farva wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote: If anyone is actually making that argument? I've yet to see it. Maybe I just missed it.
Mick Mannock wrote:I simply think that drawing a parallel with racism is false.
How so? I don't see a huge amount of difference.

I support his right to say racist things and his right to say homophobic things. And I support the right of anyone else to call him a deadset ignorant dickhead for it.

Although I think a much more useful and "bigger man" response would be a genuine attempt to get through his thick head instead of just calling him names. The guy is obviously brain-washed with ultra-conservative religious dogma. The answer is more speech, better speech, not silencing things you don't like hearing.

A newspaper column that calmly explained the counter-argument to his idiotic "gays are going to hell" stance in a calm, rational, scientific manner would be more than welcome, instead of focussing on individual virtue signalling and outrage. Even if he's too far gone for it to sink in, some naive people that would be influenced by him maybe swayed, instead of doubling down on the flawed belief that their "rights" are being infringed upon.
Because he said that unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell. In other words, he feels it is a sin.

How does one ask God's forgiveness for being a particular race, and repent of it?
How does one ask for fods forgiveness for being a particular sexual orientation? Its not a thing people choose.
I covered that. I did not say that I agree with it.

I assume Folau means that homosexuals can repent if they stop doing homosexual sex.

A person of a particular race cannot stop being that race.
And that second paragraph is the crux of why Folau is in trouble.
Homosexuals cat choose their oeientation just as you cant change race. Folaus comments suggeat you can and regardless of his religious convictions it doesnt support the values of RA or its sponsora.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:17 pm
by Mick Mannock
[/quote]
And that second paragraph is the crux of why Folau is in trouble.
Homosexuals cat choose their oeientation just as you cant change race. Folaus comments suggeat you can and regardless of his religious convictions it doesnt support the values of RA or its sponsora.[/quote]

No they do not. Sexual orientation cannot be chosen. Sexual activity can.

Adults who are attracted to children (for example) will not "sin" unless they act upon their orientation.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:18 pm
by Wilson's Toffee
Mick Mannock wrote:
And that second paragraph is the crux of why Folau is in trouble.
Homosexuals cat choose their oeientation just as you cant change race. Folaus comments suggeat you can and regardless of his religious convictions it doesnt support the values of RA or its sponsora.[/quote]

No they do not. Sexual orientation cannot be chosen. Sexual activity can.

Adults who are attracted to children (for example) will not "sin" unless they act upon their orientation.[/quote]


Fornicators and adulterers and idol worshippers are all equally damned. By repenting and stopping the specific forbidden activity they will qualify for heaven. Also eaters of pork and shellfish.

I think ...

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:35 pm
by Mog The Almighty
Mick Mannock wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Farva wrote:and he then should not have the consequences of that comment because of his religion
If anyone is actually making that argument? I've yet to see it. Maybe I just missed it.
Mick Mannock wrote:I simply think that drawing a parallel with racism is false.
How so? I don't see a huge amount of difference.

I support his right to say racist things and his right to say homophobic things. And I support the right of anyone else to call him a deadset ignorant dickhead for it.

Although I think a much more useful and "bigger man" response would be a genuine attempt to get through his thick head instead of just calling him names. The guy is obviously brain-washed with ultra-conservative religious dogma. The answer is more speech, better speech, not silencing things you don't like hearing.

A newspaper column that calmly explained the counter-argument to his idiotic "gays are going to hell" stance in a calm, rational, scientific manner would be more than welcome, instead of focussing on individual virtue signalling and outrage. Even if he's too far gone for it to sink in, some naive people that would be influenced by him maybe swayed, instead of doubling down on the flawed belief that their "rights" are being infringed upon.
Because he said that unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell. In other words, he feels it is a sin.

How does one ask God's forgiveness for being a particular race, and repent of it?
Okay, I understand the point. A person of some particular skin colour can't exactly peel their skin off or change their genes, but a homosexual can resist the urge to suck a dick. He's not born with a penis in his mouth. Fair point.

And I say "fair point" acknowledging that you don't agree with Folau's stance on moral grounds.

You're right, there is a difference. However, it's still an incredibly ignorant and fascistic stance to take that I abhore. Izzy's only excuse is that he's dumb as dogshit and ignorant on top. And in the end, it changes nothing. He's free to say it, others are free to (very rightly imo) vehemently critisize it. No injustice has been done on either side.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:17 pm
by Enzedder
He's free to say it, others are free to (very rightly imo) vehemently critisize it.
I wish they would just say it once like he did though. Fark me, but the offended sure go on, and on, and on, and on ........

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:48 pm
by Wilson's Toffee
Enzedder wrote:
He's free to say it, others are free to (very rightly imo) vehemently critisize it.
I wish they would just say it once like he did though. Fark me, but the offended sure go on, and on, and on, and on ........

It makes them feel soooo gooooood !!

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:57 pm
by Ted.
Israel Folau hits out at Rugby Australia boss as he explains his beliefs on homosexuality
LINK.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:00 pm
by Wilson's Toffee
Folau said he was merely explaining his beliefs in a social media discussion
"I was asked a question by somebody about what God's plan is for gay people," Folau wrote.
"My response to the question is what I believe God's plan is for all sinners, according to my
understanding of my Bible teachings, specifically 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10: 'Or do you not know that
the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually
immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the
greedy, nor the drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.'"
Folau said he did not know the person who asked him the question on social media.
"I believed he was looking for guidance and I answered him honestly and from the heart. I know a
lot of people will find that difficult to understand, but I believe the Bible is the truth and
sometimes the truth can be difficult to hear."
A Christian victimised. A martyr in the making.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:06 pm
by SecretAgentMan
guy smiley wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Israel Folau hits out at Rugby Australia boss as he explains his beliefs on homosexuality
LINK.
Christ, if you'll pardon the reference, on a stick.

As I am not religious and my views on organised religion are firmly in the negative, I find this sort of blind obedience alarming. These nutters are a menace.
“Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told. Obedience is doing what you are told regardless of what is right.” ― H.L. Mencken

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:10 pm
by SecretAgentMan
guy smiley wrote:We're only two steps away from tearfully singing along to The Wall with our arms around each others' shoulders, SAM.

Do you want that?
What would Jesus do, bro?

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:17 pm
by shanky
So, Dave’s intel was good

Apart from the fact that it wasn’t the Waratahs, he wasn’t being fired and he doesn’t want to quit.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:42 pm
by jimmy speights
“Gays are going to Hell, and I’m going to Europe or Japan 💰 💵 💰 💷

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:44 pm
by CrazyIslander
guy smiley wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:
guy smiley wrote:We're only two steps away from tearfully singing along to The Wall with our arms around each others' shoulders, SAM.

Do you want that?
What would Jesus do, bro?
He stole my hotrod.
At least he's gone out and supported gay rugby. What have you two archair blowhards done for gay rights lately other than sucking each others cock?

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:02 am
by SecretAgentMan
CrazyIslander wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:
guy smiley wrote:We're only two steps away from tearfully singing along to The Wall with our arms around each others' shoulders, SAM.

Do you want that?
What would Jesus do, bro?
He stole my hotrod.
At least he's gone out and supported gay rugby. What have you two archair blowhards done for gay rights lately other than sucking each others cock?
I should report that post, you fucking piece of shit.

EDIT: Reported. Fuck you.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:08 am
by Taranaki Snapper
CrazyIslander wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:
guy smiley wrote:We're only two steps away from tearfully singing along to The Wall with our arms around each others' shoulders, SAM.

Do you want that?
What would Jesus do, bro?
He stole my hotrod.
At least he's gone out and supported gay rugby. What have you two archair blowhards done for gay rights lately other than sucking each others cock?
Is that more or less than you?

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:15 am
by Wilson's Toffee
I just cannot believe all this shit ....

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:25 am
by Brumbie_Steve
guy smiley wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Israel Folau hits out at Rugby Australia boss as he explains his beliefs on homosexuality
LINK.
Christ, if you'll pardon the reference, on a stick.

As I am not religious and my views on organised religion are firmly in the negative, I find this sort of blind obedience alarming. These nutters are a menace.
The less of this god shit in Oz Rugby the better IMHO, if the god botherers dont like it they should fudge off.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:30 am
by True Blue
Isn't religion such a great thing. It's really something that brings humanity together.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:42 am
by Ted.
CrazyIslander wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:
guy smiley wrote:We're only two steps away from tearfully singing along to The Wall with our arms around each others' shoulders, SAM.

Do you want that?
What would Jesus do, bro?
He stole my hotrod.
At least he's gone out and supported gay rugby. What have you two archair blowhards done for gay rights lately other than sucking each others cock?
:lol:

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:01 am
by _fatprop
I think the key term we should all remember as "tolerance".

To me, an inclusive society requires us to tolerate different views that often will conflict with each other.

And that in no way means respect someone's views.

Folau views represents part that 40 odd percent of Australians who were less than excited with the legalising of gay marriage.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:24 am
by Hong Kong
CI - be careful on how you argue your point.

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:43 am
by TheDocForgotHisLogon
Mrs. Folau isn't covering herself in glory either. Netball NZ probably has more to worry about of course...

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:01 am
by mojo
Has anyone asked Izzy what God's plan is for fullbacks without a kicking game?

Re: Folau: All Gays are going to HELL

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:12 am
by comets
mojo wrote:Has anyone asked Izzy what God's plan is for fullbacks without a kicking game?
God replied: "Go back to league u farking bigot"