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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Announced by World Rugby this afternoon

Romania :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Wow! This is setting a precedent


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:52 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
Announced by World Rugby this afternoon

Romania :lol:


Does the statement actually say that though? Read it as more, 'we were going to have it replayed, but then it got more complicated'


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:53 pm 
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I'd love to see the full match analysis that led to the decision.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Whatever happens, I hope they throw some decent bans on a few of those Spanish players


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Gavin Duffy wrote:
I'd love to see the full match analysis that led to the decision.


Was going to be based on him being appointed in the first place, not performance on the day.

Massive precedent though if it does end up being replayed. As you can argue in many cases a 'neutral' ref's country would be served by x team winning


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Hopefully the match is refereed by Nigel Owens.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Gavin Duffy wrote:
I'd love to see the full match analysis that led to the decision.


By the refs? Initially it wasn't that bad, but then Rolland got involved and insisted the report be redone as all bad. Odd that


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:59 pm 
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A World Rugby statement on Thursday read: “World Rugby was deeply concerned about the process and perception of Rugby Europe’s appointment of a match official team that was not neutral in the context of qualification. The World Rugby Executive Committee and Rugby World Cup Board felt that a replay would be in the best interests of the game.

“Since expressing that view, new information relating to player eligibility has been presented to World Rugby by the participating unions. Given this information concerns potential breaches of World Rugby regulations, and given the complexity and interconnectivity of the issues, a full and independent review is warranted.

“World Rugby’s independent judicial panel Chairman Christopher Quinlan QC has been asked to form and convene the disputes committee on an emergency basis in order to achieve certainty as soon as possible.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/world-rugby-to-review-spain-and-belgium-qualifier-1.3451807

So not a replay quite yet


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:59 pm 
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It's as clear as mud.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:59 pm 
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piquant wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
I'd love to see the full match analysis that led to the decision.


By the refs? Initially it wasn't that bad, but then Rolland got involved and insisted the report be redone as all bad. Odd that

Eh?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Gavin Duffy wrote:
piquant wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
I'd love to see the full match analysis that led to the decision.


By the refs? Initially it wasn't that bad, but then Rolland got involved and insisted the report be redone as all bad. Odd that

Eh?


You wanted to see the match analysis done that led to the decision, it was done as per normal, but Rolland wasn't happy with it as it wasn't critical enough of the referee from a political standpoint so it was redone under Rolland's direction and now looks like the ref had a proper shocker. I have to say having watched the game the ref didn't get it all right imo but dear god I can't think of a game where the ref has, and it certainly didn't on a cursory viewing look like an absolute howler, we've seen worse in the 6N


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:07 pm 
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As mentioned there are still the issues surrounding player eligibility though, there's a big question over at least one of the Spain players and possibly Belgium too. They could both be disqualified yet, and Russia find themselves in the repechage places!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Reading that I think they are going to replay it only with different teams from different countries. Allez Kazakhstan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:08 pm 
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piquant wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
piquant wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
I'd love to see the full match analysis that led to the decision.


By the refs? Initially it wasn't that bad, but then Rolland got involved and insisted the report be redone as all bad. Odd that

Eh?


You wanted to see the match analysis done that led to the decision, it was done as per normal, but Rolland wasn't happy with it as it wasn't critical enough of the referee from a political standpoint so it was redone under Rolland's direction and now looks like the ref had a proper shocker. I have to say having watched the game the ref didn't get it all right imo but dear god I can't think of a game where the ref has, and it certainly didn't on a cursory viewing look like an absolute howler, we've seen worse in the 6N

Where can I see the report(s)?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Massive precedent though if it does end up being replayed. As you can argue in many cases a 'neutral' ref's country would be served by x team winning


Looks like World Rugby are blaming Rugby Europe, so they're trying to take the "no precedent" tack.

If it were a precedent, World Rugby would be in a box for top-tier internationals, considering the only countries that produce referees are England, Wales, Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, and Australia. How many "truly neutral" refs are there in a 6N, TRC, or WC match? You'd in effect be saying a Saffer or Kiwi could never ref a TRC match again.

A few idiots on here used to think Alain Rolland shouldn't ref French games. :x


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:20 pm 
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https://www.worldrugby.org/news/324233

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A separate independent judicial panel has been appointed by Rugby Europe to consider conduct of the players after the final whistle of the Belgium versus Spain match.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:23 pm 
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julian wrote:
https://www.worldrugby.org/news/324233

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A separate independent judicial panel has been appointed by Rugby Europe to consider conduct of the players after the final whistle of the Belgium versus Spain match.


How many panels have and will be investigating this match? :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Gavin Duffy wrote:
piquant wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
piquant wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
I'd love to see the full match analysis that led to the decision.


By the refs? Initially it wasn't that bad, but then Rolland got involved and insisted the report be redone as all bad. Odd that

Eh?


You wanted to see the match analysis done that led to the decision, it was done as per normal, but Rolland wasn't happy with it as it wasn't critical enough of the referee from a political standpoint so it was redone under Rolland's direction and now looks like the ref had a proper shocker. I have to say having watched the game the ref didn't get it all right imo but dear god I can't think of a game where the ref has, and it certainly didn't on a cursory viewing look like an absolute howler, we've seen worse in the 6N

Where can I see the report(s)?



I don't know if they've published them, or even if they normally do


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
If it were a precedent, World Rugby would be in a box for top-tier internationals, considering the only countries that produce referees are England, Wales, Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, and Australia. How many "truly neutral" refs are there in a 6N, TRC, or WC match? You'd in effect be saying a Saffer or Kiwi could never ref a TRC match again.

A few idiots on here used to think Alain Rolland shouldn't ref French games. :x

This was a quite particular situation, though. Spain win and they qualify ahead of Romania, Belgium win and Romania qualify ahead of Spain. Crystal clear that a Romanian team should not be in charge.

You didn't need to imagine a possible series of results somewhere down the road. The conflict of interest was blatant and rested solely on this game so it should have been addressed.

If a similar situation arises in the final round of matches in a WC pool then the referee should be changed or ideally no officials from any of the 5 countries involved in a WC pool should be in charge of games from that pool.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Tschussie wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
If it were a precedent, World Rugby would be in a box for top-tier internationals, considering the only countries that produce referees are England, Wales, Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, and Australia. How many "truly neutral" refs are there in a 6N, TRC, or WC match? You'd in effect be saying a Saffer or Kiwi could never ref a TRC match again.

A few idiots on here used to think Alain Rolland shouldn't ref French games. :x

This was a quite particular situation, though. Spain win and they qualify ahead of Romania, Belgium win and Romania qualify ahead of Spain. Crystal clear that a Romanian team should not be in charge.

You didn't need to imagine a possible series of results somewhere down the road. The conflict of interest was blatant and rested solely on this game so it should have been addressed.

If a similar situation arises in the final round of matches in a WC pool then the referee should be changed or ideally no officials from any of the 5 countries involved in a WC pool should be in charge of games from that pool.


You don't have to stop there. All Blacks win a semi and are in the final, NZ ref gets the other semi, and "New Zealand referee picks All Blacks' opponent in final". Remember, we're dealing with idiot fans and an idiot press.

It's worse in rugby in comparison to say soccer because there's such a limited pool of refs and countries that produce those refs that World Rugby deems acceptable at the top level.

The ref assignment guru should've seen this beforehand, I agree.


Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Massive precedent though if it does end up being replayed. As you can argue in many cases a 'neutral' ref's country would be served by x team winning


Looks like World Rugby are blaming Rugby Europe, so they're trying to take the "no precedent" tack.

If it were a precedent, World Rugby would be in a box for top-tier internationals, considering the only countries that produce referees are England, Wales, Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, and Australia. How many "truly neutral" refs are there in a 6N, TRC, or WC match? You'd in effect be saying a Saffer or Kiwi could never ref a TRC match again.

A few idiots on here used to think Alain Rolland shouldn't ref French games. :x

And with the Rugby Europe Championship / RWC Qualifiers being played on the same weekends as the 6N, the resource pool of sufficiently "acceptable" truly neutral refs for the "Tier 2" games is even smaller.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Tschussie wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
If it were a precedent, World Rugby would be in a box for top-tier internationals, considering the only countries that produce referees are England, Wales, Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, and Australia. How many "truly neutral" refs are there in a 6N, TRC, or WC match? You'd in effect be saying a Saffer or Kiwi could never ref a TRC match again.

A few idiots on here used to think Alain Rolland shouldn't ref French games. :x

This was a quite particular situation, though. Spain win and they qualify ahead of Romania, Belgium win and Romania qualify ahead of Spain. Crystal clear that a Romanian team should not be in charge.

You didn't need to imagine a possible series of results somewhere down the road. The conflict of interest was blatant and rested solely on this game so it should have been addressed.

If a similar situation arises in the final round of matches in a WC pool then the referee should be changed or ideally no officials from any of the 5 countries involved in a WC pool should be in charge of games from that pool.


You don't have to stop there. All Blacks win a semi and are in the final, NZ ref gets the other semi, and "New Zealand referee picks All Blacks' opponent in final". Remember, we're dealing with idiot fans and an idiot press.

It's worse in rugby in comparison to say soccer because there's such a limited pool of refs and countries that produce those refs that World Rugby deems acceptable at the top level.


Part of the issue is that Spain took this up weeks before the game. It's not as if this was an issue that came up days before the game, like in a RWC where they have a fixed panel and refs are only appointed after the teams are known


Last edited by Jensrsa on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Jensrsa wrote:
julian wrote:
https://www.worldrugby.org/news/324233

Quote:
A separate independent judicial panel has been appointed by Rugby Europe to consider conduct of the players after the final whistle of the Belgium versus Spain match.


How many panels have and will be investigating this match? :)


You have here apparently:

a) not neutral match officials.

b) player elegibility issues.

c) Post match wrongful conducts.


I wonder whether España will have the full team for the replay or not.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:36 pm 
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julian wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
julian wrote:
https://www.worldrugby.org/news/324233

Quote:
A separate independent judicial panel has been appointed by Rugby Europe to consider conduct of the players after the final whistle of the Belgium versus Spain match.


How many panels have and will be investigating this match? :)


You have here apparently:

a) not neutral match officials.

b) player elegibility issues.

c) Post match wrongful conducts.


I wonder whether España will have the full team for the replay or not.


Neither will Belgium apparently


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
You don't have to stop there. All Blacks win a semi and are in the final, NZ ref gets the other semi, and "New Zealand referee picks All Blacks' opponent in final". Remember, we're dealing with idiot fans and an idiot press.

It's worse in rugby in comparison to say soccer because there's such a limited pool of refs and countries that produce those refs that World Rugby deems acceptable at the top level.

The ref assignment guru should've seen this beforehand, I agree.


I think there is a significant difference between potential opponents for your nation and the actual progression of your nation to next stage of competition.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Tschussie wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
You don't have to stop there. All Blacks win a semi and are in the final, NZ ref gets the other semi, and "New Zealand referee picks All Blacks' opponent in final". Remember, we're dealing with idiot fans and an idiot press.

It's worse in rugby in comparison to say soccer because there's such a limited pool of refs and countries that produce those refs that World Rugby deems acceptable at the top level.

The ref assignment guru should've seen this beforehand, I agree.


I think there is a significant difference between potential opponents for your nation and the actual progression of your nation to next stage of competition.


Or NZ get the same ref for the semi-final and final, or France get screwed in the final. These things happened once upon a time and people had to get on with it, but no more, World Rugby are here to offer you a replay!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Jensrsa wrote:
Part of the issue is that Spain took this up weeks before the game. It's not as if this was an issue that came up days before the game, like in a RWC where they have a fixed panel and refs are only appointed after the teams are known


Definitely the big difference between this and other situations. You may find that a precedent would be set where teams could certainly demand a different appointment of officials but not suddenly complain about it after a game.

I doubt a similar case would ever arrive at first tier level given the quality of the referees and the fact that no self respecting nation would ever find themselves in the situation to take this route. They would never ever replay a RWC game, nor RC, 6 nations etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:24 pm 
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Toro wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Part of the issue is that Spain took this up weeks before the game. It's not as if this was an issue that came up days before the game, like in a RWC where they have a fixed panel and refs are only appointed after the teams are known


Definitely the big difference between this and other situations. You may find that a precedent would be set where teams could certainly demand a different appointment of officials but not suddenly complain about it after a game.

I doubt a similar case would ever arrive at first tier level given the quality of the referees and the fact that no self respecting nation would ever find themselves in the situation to take this route. They would never ever replay a RWC game, nor RC, 6 nations etc.

True. Tier 1 games get Tier 1 refs, who is supposedly free of bias :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Jensrsa wrote:
Toro wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Part of the issue is that Spain took this up weeks before the game. It's not as if this was an issue that came up days before the game, like in a RWC where they have a fixed panel and refs are only appointed after the teams are known


Definitely the big difference between this and other situations. You may find that a precedent would be set where teams could certainly demand a different appointment of officials but not suddenly complain about it after a game.

I doubt a similar case would ever arrive at first tier level given the quality of the referees and the fact that no self respecting nation would ever find themselves in the situation to take this route. They would never ever replay a RWC game, nor RC, 6 nations etc.

True. Tier 1 games get Tier 1 refs, who is supposedly free of bias :roll:


Supposedly no, they have neutral refs in tier 1 too, but I think it's more to avoid the suspicion and maintain integrity more than anything else.The same reason they changed the touch judge for the England Ireland game.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Toro wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Toro wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Part of the issue is that Spain took this up weeks before the game. It's not as if this was an issue that came up days before the game, like in a RWC where they have a fixed panel and refs are only appointed after the teams are known


Definitely the big difference between this and other situations. You may find that a precedent would be set where teams could certainly demand a different appointment of officials but not suddenly complain about it after a game.

I doubt a similar case would ever arrive at first tier level given the quality of the referees and the fact that no self respecting nation would ever find themselves in the situation to take this route. They would never ever replay a RWC game, nor RC, 6 nations etc.

True. Tier 1 games get Tier 1 refs, who is supposedly free of bias :roll:


Supposedly no, they have neutral refs in tier 1 too, but I think it's more to avoid the suspicion and maintain integrity more than anything else.The same reason they changed the touch judge for the England Ireland game.

I was thinking of the RC games


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:43 pm 
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piquant wrote:
I don't know if they've published them, or even if they normally do

So you're waffling.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Who gives a shite?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:04 pm 
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I'd be amazed if it was replayed, we have informed that there was nothing to see here.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:43 pm 
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I think the 95 world cup final should be replayed.

It might be 14 against 13 now, so I think we'd be favorites.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:49 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
piquant wrote:
I don't know if they've published them, or even if they normally do

So you're waffling.


Sure, always. Though I've also been appraised as to the reports by a kind soul who works for WR


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:58 pm 
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One again, pathetic Fermin de la Calle was caught lying, and lying and lying...

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:51 pm 
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Floppykid wrote:
Who gives a shite?

The team who automatically qualifies lands straight into your group.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:03 am 
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julian wrote:
Hopefully the match is refereed by Nigel Owens.


Which usually means Nige will decide who he wants to win before the game, and officiate it accordingly. He will be confused by this one though as neither Scotland nor Munster will be playing.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:50 am 
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TopNacker wrote:
julian wrote:
Hopefully the match is refereed by Nigel Owens.


Which usually means Nige will decide who he wants to win before the game, and officiate it accordingly. He will be confused by this one though as neither Scotland nor Munster will be playing.


These days it doesn't matter as you can go straight to a replay


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