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well, some of them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43789933

now, I'm in the pro-Vauxhall camp as some may know, but does this signal the imminent death of the Vauxhal/ Opel brand in Europe, or the start of some VAG group copying along with DS, Citroen and Peugeot ?
Awful year for Vauxhall Opel in terms of market% loss, but they still remain a bit player in UK & Europe car sales, still have factories in the UK, and unlike Rover when they went pop, actually have some decent cars.

what will be done with the marketing does anyone reckon ? their current radio ads of 'British Brand since 1908' just seems rather odd to me.

PSA culling the useless brits ...

Laurent wrote:PSA culling the useless brits ...

in fact, the Brits are probably the best part of that part of GM, as they have the profitable Luton van plant, and Astra plant in Ellesmere port that makes one of their best models.

backrow wrote:

Laurent wrote:PSA culling the useless brits ...

in fact, the Brits are probably the best part of that part of GM, as they have the profitable Luton van plant, and Astra plant in Ellesmere port that makes one of their best models.

that'll do you

the 205 was probably the last nice car Peugeot did, before the beancounters turned their cars into crud (wife had a company 308 for 2 years, and it was utter shite). Have heard their latest 3008 and 5008 are nice, can't say I'm a fan of the interior looks or crappy little square steering wheels on an MPV SUV though.

I had a 205gti, great fun

DragsterDriver wrote:I had a 205gti, great fun

If you could keep the bastard on the road

backrow wrote:well, some of them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43789933

now, I'm in the pro-Vauxhall camp as some may know, but does this signal the imminent death of the Vauxhal/ Opel brand in Europe, or the start of some VAG group copying along with DS, Citroen and Peugeot ?
Awful year for Vauxhall Opel in terms of market% loss, but they still remain a bit player in UK & Europe car sales, still have factories in the UK, and unlike Rover when they went pop, actually have some decent cars.

what will be done with the marketing does anyone reckon ? their current radio ads of 'British Brand since 1908' just seems rather odd to me.

I think the dealer consolidation makes sense. Volumes are on the way down (from a high point), buyers are looking online more and it might make sense to share some sites with PSA.

Where Vauxhall/Opel go longer term is unknown. I always thought it was strange for PSA to buy them as they are direct competitors, so not expanding their range or appeal particularly. Sure they should be able to get good economies of scale on powertrains and vehicle platforms, but not sure if total volumes for all brands will be maintained.

happyhooker wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:I had a 205gti, great fun

If you could keep the bastard on the road

I had a friend with a 1.9 GTi, boosted by Turbo Technics. It was very rapid!

Homer wrote:

backrow wrote:well, some of them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43789933

now, I'm in the pro-Vauxhall camp as some may know, but does this signal the imminent death of the Vauxhal/ Opel brand in Europe, or the start of some VAG group copying along with DS, Citroen and Peugeot ?
Awful year for Vauxhall Opel in terms of market% loss, but they still remain a bit player in UK & Europe car sales, still have factories in the UK, and unlike Rover when they went pop, actually have some decent cars.

what will be done with the marketing does anyone reckon ? their current radio ads of 'British Brand since 1908' just seems rather odd to me.

I think the dealer consolidation makes sense. Volumes are on the way down (from a high point), buyers are looking online more and it might make sense to share some sites with PSA.

Where Vauxhall/Opel go longer term is unknown. I always thought it was strange for PSA to buy them as they are direct competitors, so not expanding their range or appeal particularly. Sure they should be able to get good economies of scale on powertrains and vehicle platforms, but not sure if total volumes for all brands will be maintained.

yeah, does smack of eliminating a competitor than adding to the range - hard to think of a single Vaux / Opel car type that PSA don't already do, bar Maybe Astra GTC & the VXR range

Opel in the Uk used to have a sports image, perhaps veer that marque in that direction ? make DS their Audi equivalent, Pegeout the VW equivalent, and then Citroen & Vauxhall the SEAT / Skoda equivalent, or invent a Dacia cheapo niche.

happyhooker wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:I had a 205gti, great fun

If you could keep the bastard on the road

She was a ditchfinder

Zafira was big for them but left behind as a family MPV and they're playing catch up in SUV segment which is the growth one. Their recent Grandland offering is almost as poor as the best of British slant pushed in the ad campaign.

Corsa model was a quarter of European total sales, and I think PSA made a call to either pull out of or limit hugely numbers sold into rental fleets which were an insanely high proportion in Germany anyway. That'll have a big volume impact.

Vauxhall reps about 25% of their volume more or less, rest is Opel.

They are falling off the pace in terms of innovation. A dying brand unless something radical is done to reposition and reinvest.

redderneck wrote:Zafira was big for them but left behind as a family MPV and they're playing catch up in SUV segment which is the growth one. Their recent Grandland offering is almost as poor as the best of British slant pushed in the ad campaign.

Corsa model was a quarter of European total sales, and I think PSA made a call to either pull out of or limit hugely numbers sold into rental fleets which were an insanely high proportion in Germany anyway. That'll have a big volume impact.

Vauxhall reps about 25% of their volume more or less, rest is Opel.

They are falling off the pace in terms of innovation. A dying brand unless something radical is done to reposition and reinvest.

thought the grandland was pretty much a Peugeot 3008 with some tweaks, and that car has lot of plaudits ?

New Astra is a very nice car indeed, I preferred it to a similar specced on paper Golf that was about 7k more expensive (this was almost 2 years ago so not the latest Golf).
And in SA for the last year we've been driving a Mokka Elite petrol which is very nice.

Universal UK motoring press describe the Grandland as a cheap copy of the 3008. It's a hound. The market thinks it's a hound. Put away the lipstick and call it Fido.

It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Oh and the 205 GTI 1.6 was perfectly drivable, the 1.9 tough in the wet.

bimboman wrote:It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Nothing wrong with the Astra or Insignia. The Mokka is a good small SUV.

Corsa is worthy, but boring; Adam is weird (and expensive), Viva is crap. Zafira is an MPV whch no-one wants any more.

Their biggest mistake is with their new SUVs (Crossland and Grandland) which are cheap inside and rubbish to drive - not surprising as they're based on Peugeots

redderneck wrote:Universal UK motoring press describe the Grandland as a cheap copy of the 3008. It's a hound. The market thinks it's a hound. Put away the lipstick and call it Fido.

ah yes, the press - amazing what £50k can get you these days, like WHICH? car of the year awards.
I put no more faith in the car press than I do other forms of media, would rather follow Honest John for more unbiased approach, or those surveys that find BMW's to be very unreliable

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/v ... nd-x-2018/

bimboman wrote:It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Oh and the 205 GTI 1.6 was perfectly drivable, the 1.9 tough in the wet.

that's what lots of people say having read someone elses viewpoint (possibly paid for).
I lost my faith in car press when Ford Focus won car of the year consistently, and apparently it 'was better' than the astra - until I went to drive them, and found them just patently not as good in my opionion as an Astra G. fast forward 18 years and you see no old Focus' on the road, and loads of (petrol) Astras, so they were better built as well as being nicer to driver, roomier if you are tall, and cheaper.

backrow wrote:

redderneck wrote:Universal UK motoring press describe the Grandland as a cheap copy of the 3008. It's a hound. The market thinks it's a hound. Put away the lipstick and call it Fido.

ah yes, the press - amazing what £50k can get you these days, like WHICH? car of the year awards.
I put no more faith in the car press than I do other forms of media, would rather follow Honest John for more unbiased approach, or those surveys that find BMW's to be very unreliable

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/v ... nd-x-2018/

Well done you. Parker's also gives it a reasonable rating.

That's not who creates the market though.

She howl. She scratch hersel'. She chase cats. She hound.

backrow wrote:

bimboman wrote:It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Oh and the 205 GTI 1.6 was perfectly drivable, the 1.9 tough in the wet.

that's what lots of people say having read someone elses viewpoint (possibly paid for).
I lost my faith in car press when Ford Focus won car of the year consistently, and apparently it 'was better' than the astra - until I went to drive them, and found them just patently not as good in my opionion as an Astra G. fast forward 18 years and you see no old Focus' on the road, and loads of (petrol) Astras, so they were better built as well as being nicer to driver, roomier if you are tall, and cheaper.

Ahem. A contrary hoor might point out that one of the reasons you see no old Focus' on the road versus loads of Astra's is because Ford are doing a damn sight better job at, eh, selling new cars.

Sandstorm wrote:

bimboman wrote:It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Nothing wrong with the Astra or Insignia. The Mokka is a good small SUV.

Corsa is worthy, but boring; Adam is weird (and expensive), Viva is crap. Zafira is an MPV whch no-one wants any more.

Their biggest mistake is with their new SUVs (Crossland and Grandland) which are cheap inside and rubbish to drive - not surprising as they're based on Peugeots

The corsa is a piece of shit that has a terrible loose driving connectivity , the Zafira is worse. The auto box on the Corsa was comedy bad, I've not driven anything that shit since the 80's.

I'm glad the Astra is decent ...

redderneck wrote:

backrow wrote:

bimboman wrote:It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Oh and the 205 GTI 1.6 was perfectly drivable, the 1.9 tough in the wet.

that's what lots of people say having read someone elses viewpoint (possibly paid for).
I lost my faith in car press when Ford Focus won car of the year consistently, and apparently it 'was better' than the astra - until I went to drive them, and found them just patently not as good in my opionion as an Astra G. fast forward 18 years and you see no old Focus' on the road, and loads of (petrol) Astras, so they were better built as well as being nicer to driver, roomier if you are tall, and cheaper.

Ahem. A contrary hoor might point out that one of the reasons you see no old Focus' on the road versus loads of Astra's is because Ford are doing a damn sight better job at, eh, selling new cars.

both big selling models and marques really, Astra's just age better

bimboman wrote:

Sandstorm wrote:

bimboman wrote:It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Nothing wrong with the Astra or Insignia. The Mokka is a good small SUV.

Corsa is worthy, but boring; Adam is weird (and expensive), Viva is crap. Zafira is an MPV whch no-one wants any more.

Their biggest mistake is with their new SUVs (Crossland and Grandland) which are cheap inside and rubbish to drive - not surprising as they're based on Peugeots

The corsa is a piece of shit that has a terrible loose driving connectivity , the Zafira is worse. The auto box on the Corsa was comedy bad, I've not driven anything that shit since the 80's.

I'm glad the Astra is decent ...

we have a zafira, its fine. Roomy & Cheap and looks ok in Red, bit like your ma really !

backrow wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Sandstorm wrote:

bimboman wrote:It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Nothing wrong with the Astra or Insignia. The Mokka is a good small SUV.

Corsa is worthy, but boring; Adam is weird (and expensive), Viva is crap. Zafira is an MPV whch no-one wants any more.

Their biggest mistake is with their new SUVs (Crossland and Grandland) which are cheap inside and rubbish to drive - not surprising as they're based on Peugeots

The corsa is a piece of shit that has a terrible loose driving connectivity , the Zafira is worse. The auto box on the Corsa was comedy bad, I've not driven anything that shit since the 80's.

I'm glad the Astra is decent ...

we have a zafira, its fine. Roomy & Cheap and looks ok in Red, bit like your ma really !

My Ma is mental and only has one tit so yep good analogy.

incompetent rip-off merchants, good riddance.

Insane_Homer wrote:rip-off merchants

Says the BMW driver

Haven’t made a decent car since the Astra GTE.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Crash_12 wrote:Haven’t made a decent car since the Astra GTE.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Is that their old hot/convertible yoke? Pal had to drive one from The Mumbles back to London after a Wales v Ireland w/end in Cardiff. Pissing all the way. With the roof jammed open. Not fully but not closeable. 30 mph all the way home.

He was so proud as he pitched up to the Mumbles on the Friday night, to see us all off the ferry, driving our forty year old Fiat Uno/Ford Fiesta shit boxes.

Sandstorm wrote:

Insane_Homer wrote:rip-off merchants

Says the BMW driver

Beemer has not cost me an extra cent in the 3+ years I've had it. They provide courtesy car or pickup for services at no cost. Customer service is excellent.

the Zafira we had ~10 years ago cost me an extra £2000-3000 2 years a row and at one point after having the car for 10+ days the pricks then admitted they'd not sourced a replacement part and it was more expensive than the value of the car. I scrapped the piece of shit 3 days later.

Lesson learned, you get what you pay for, never again.

I had the misfortune to have to drive an Astra diesel loaner whilst my car was in the body shop. Christ. It was awful.

Globus mode:

Old next door neighbour is CEO of Nissan and wouldn't piss on a Peugeot if it was the last yoke out of Dodge, worst of the worst . He worked in the automotive industry in Paris for 15 years.

Bogbunny wrote:Globus mode:

Old next door neighbour is CEO of Nissan and wouldn't piss on a Peugeot if it was the last yoke out of Dodge, worst of the worst . He worked in the automotive industry in Paris for 15 years.

The CEO of Nissan?

Bogbunny wrote:Globus mode:

Old next door neighbour is CEO of Nissan and wouldn't piss on a Peugeot if it was the last yoke out of Dodge, worst of the worst . He worked in the automotive industry in Paris for 15 years.

I'm guessing you mean Nissan ex-CEO Carlos Ghosn? With his history leading Renault, he'd be an unlikely person to big up Peugeot.

That said, I haven't considered buying a Peugeot since having a 106 GTi (which was excellent) about 20 years ago...

backrow wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Sandstorm wrote:

bimboman wrote:It's because Vauxhall make absolute horrendous cars isn't it ?

Nothing wrong with the Astra or Insignia. The Mokka is a good small SUV.

Corsa is worthy, but boring; Adam is weird (and expensive), Viva is crap. Zafira is an MPV whch no-one wants any more.

Their biggest mistake is with their new SUVs (Crossland and Grandland) which are cheap inside and rubbish to drive - not surprising as they're based on Peugeots

The corsa is a piece of shit that has a terrible loose driving connectivity , the Zafira is worse. The auto box on the Corsa was comedy bad, I've not driven anything that shit since the 80's.

I'm glad the Astra is decent ...

we have a zafira, its fine. Roomy & Cheap and looks ok in Red, bit like your ma really !

My Vauxhall Meriva is so bland that it doesn't even make the above list.

Ended up costing me an extra £3000 last year when the head gasket blew which also led on to other unexpected problems If we had known it was going to end up costing that much I'd have parked it in St Pauls and hoped someone round there was desperate enough to nick the rancid little sh*tbox.

Worst car purchase EVER!

was that a diesel or a petrol ?

we've had petrols and not had problems & got 17 years easily with nothing more than scheduled service, belts & pumps changed (several years after the recommended 8 years, but mileage was low).
Chums of mine who had problems, had diesel Vauxhalls.

I had a rally spec Vauxhall. I was amazed that the fleet manager let me have it. But a few beers helped.

It was terrific. I wore out the front tyres in under 8000 miles.

It was not quite like the one Cleary drove but got near that.