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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:55 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
guy smiley wrote:

So there are ways around that.

I understand players have to be free to negotiate their own employment so you write national contracts on terms that define and protect the national union's rights to be protected from player predation... and WR could easily set up regulations around the number of overseas developed players in the club system to protect national development pathways.


I get where you are coming from, but WR has no power to tell the English, French or Japanese clubs who they can and can't contract.

What would be needed is an agreement between the National bodies as well as Premiership Rugby, the Top 14 etc, on the global player market. I can't see that happening though.



What does World Rugby really mean then, if it can't Rule The World In A Glorious Thousand Year Epoch?

With the number of lawyers falling over their drunk arses in rugby clubs you'd think someone would be able to come up with a plan to save the game as we know it.

What are all you fat arsed old boys doing do help? :x


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:55 am 
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Slim 293 wrote:
Failing? Nah, we're killing it...

Image


He was subbed in the RWC final.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:57 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
guy smiley wrote:

So there are ways around that.

I understand players have to be free to negotiate their own employment so you write national contracts on terms that define and protect the national union's rights to be protected from player predation... and WR could easily set up regulations around the number of overseas developed players in the club system to protect national development pathways.


I get where you are coming from, but WR has no power to tell the English, French or Japanese clubs who they can and can't contract.

What would be needed is an agreement between the National bodies as well as Premiership Rugby, the Top 14 etc, on the global player market. I can't see that happening though.



What does World Rugby really mean then, if it can't Rule The World In A Glorious Thousand Year Epoch?

With the number of lawyers falling over their drunk arses in rugby clubs you'd think someone would be able to come up with a plan to save the game as we know it.

What are all you fat arsed old boys doing do help? :x


If the bloody English and French had centrally contracted everything back in 1996 like the rest of us did (mainly) then this probably wouldn't even be an issue. Da cvnts.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:21 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
If the bloody English and French had centrally contracted everything back in 1996 like the rest of us did (mainly) then this probably wouldn't even be an issue. Da cvnts.


Fark that is a long draw to blame the NH on the ARU/RA's ineptitude....

The old farts in England might lunch as much as the RA ones but they have built an amazing system from scratch.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:35 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
If the bloody English and French had centrally contracted everything back in 1996 like the rest of us did (mainly) then this probably wouldn't even be an issue. Da cvnts.


Fark that is a long draw to blame the NH on the ARU/RA's ineptitude....

The old farts in England might lunch as much as the RA ones but they have built an amazing system from scratch.


Nah, just to blame for the player drain.

And I am not sure how much the RFU had to do with making Premiership as it stands today. They either sold the clubs or let them die.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:22 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
guy smiley wrote:

So there are ways around that.

I understand players have to be free to negotiate their own employment so you write national contracts on terms that define and protect the national union's rights to be protected from player predation... and WR could easily set up regulations around the number of overseas developed players in the club system to protect national development pathways.


I get where you are coming from, but WR has no power to tell the English, French or Japanese clubs who they can and can't contract.

What would be needed is an agreement between the National bodies as well as Premiership Rugby, the Top 14 etc, on the global player market. I can't see that happening though.



What does World Rugby really mean then, if it can't Rule The World In A Glorious Thousand Year Epoch?

With the number of lawyers falling over their drunk arses in rugby clubs you'd think someone would be able to come up with a plan to save the game as we know it.

What are all you fat arsed old boys doing do help? :x

It’s pretty simple, really. The sports market in Oz is rich as fudge, it’s just the product presented by rugby is shit so only gets a small portion of that money, and is therefore relatively poor to world rugby standards. Players can be poached easily by larger offers than the ARU can make. Bottom line is they need more money. Where they get it from is hard to say. Somehow create a better product to get a larger share of the pie, but buying players is a fools game and they won’t win at auction. Invite billionaires into the game? There are few billionaire rugby fans in Oz, and I can’t imagine why any of them would do business with the ARU. Twiggy tried to, and they’ve been plum to deal with.

Mostly Australian rugby wants to point the finger at other people and blame them. It’s a badly run sport with not enough money. I have no confidence that if they had more money they wouldn’t just fudge it up.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:31 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
If the bloody English and French had centrally contracted everything back in 1996 like the rest of us did (mainly) then this probably wouldn't even be an issue. Da cvnts.


Fark that is a long draw to blame the NH on the ARU/RA's ineptitude....

The old farts in England might lunch as much as the RA ones but they have built an amazing system from scratch.


He / we isn't / aren't.

The RA debacle has been well outlined here and other threads. A major aspect of the problem facing them and the other SH unions is the purchasing power of NH club rugby.

That is what we are discussing.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:56 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
If the bloody English and French had centrally contracted everything back in 1996 like the rest of us did (mainly) then this probably wouldn't even be an issue. Da cvnts.


Fark that is a long draw to blame the NH on the ARU/RA's ineptitude....

The old farts in England might lunch as much as the RA ones but they have built an amazing system from scratch.


They built fudge all, the club owners built it and then the old farts sucked some PR cock to save what they could of their priviledge. It could be argued that the initial ineptitude of the NH administrators was the thin edge of the wedge for what later occurred. I am not certtain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:57 am 
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I’m not sure anyone can say the RFU have done any kind of wonders on the field or off it, given their natural resources

They’ve been able to avoid going bust like RA seems intent on doing, so that’s a plus.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:03 am 
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Brumbie_Steve wrote:
I am not certain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


Some of you guys could do with letting go of the chip over this... Tew was quoted the other day saying that if SA leave Soup then NZ are staring at a financial black hole after 2020. They can't fund it. They're quite open about the risks.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:08 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
I am not certain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


Some of you guys could do with letting go of the chip over this... Tew was quoted the other day saying that if SA leave Soup then NZ are staring at a financial black hole after 2020. They can't fund it. They're quite open about the risks.


Change your tampon, it was a genuine statement. I was thinking that the situation as it stands now is not unlike the 70's ultimately the ARU and the NZRU are going to have to forge a joint way into the future. It is the best hope for both of them in the long term. Maybe time for the 10/12 team trans tasman comp with the Force if twiggy hasn't gone bust/lost interest by 2020.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:14 am 
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Brumbie_Steve wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
I am not certain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


Some of you guys could do with letting go of the chip over this... Tew was quoted the other day saying that if SA leave Soup then NZ are staring at a financial black hole after 2020. They can't fund it. They're quite open about the risks.


Change your tampon, it was a genuine statement. I was thinking that the situation as it stands now is not unlike the 70's ultimately the ARU and the NZRU are going to have to forge a joint way into the future. It is the best hope for both of them in the long term. Maybe time for the 10/12 team trans tasman comp with the Force if twiggy hasn't gone bust/lost interest by 2020.


You might have missed the last thread covering that... there's been a few of them really.

The writing's on the wall, what it comes down to is finding the best way forward. I agree... they both have to pool resources, you can't go it alone.

While I was typing that out it hit me that the AFL have a broadcast deal worth $2.5Billion.

Let's all just sit back and look at that for a second.

Holy cow. Let's just do a deal like that.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:18 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
I am not certain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


Some of you guys could do with letting go of the chip over this... Tew was quoted the other day saying that if SA leave Soup then NZ are staring at a financial black hole after 2020. They can't fund it. They're quite open about the risks.

Why is it a chip? :? NZRU have been openly hostile about a trans tasman comp with us. Yet then throw out helping out a PI side which would never be viable. NZRU know they will have no choice other than to join in with their nearest neighbour just like every other NZ pro sport has. There will eventually be no choice. Start working with the ARU now on it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:20 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:
If the bloody English and French had centrally contracted everything back in 1996 like the rest of us did (mainly) then this probably wouldn't even be an issue. Da cvnts.


Fark that is a long draw to blame the NH on the ARU/RA's ineptitude....

The old farts in England might lunch as much as the RA ones but they have built an amazing system from scratch.


He / we isn't / aren't.

The RA debacle has been well outlined here and other threads. A major aspect of the problem facing them and the other SH unions is the purchasing power of NH club rugby.

That is what we are discussing.


Cross posting mate..


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:26 am 
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grievous wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
I am not certain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


Some of you guys could do with letting go of the chip over this... Tew was quoted the other day saying that if SA leave Soup then NZ are staring at a financial black hole after 2020. They can't fund it. They're quite open about the risks.

Why is it a chip? :? NZRU have been openly hostile about a trans tasman comp with us. Yet then throw out helping out a PI side which would never be viable. NZRU know they will have no choice other than to join in with their nearest neighbour just like every other NZ pro sport has. There will eventually be no choice. Start working with the ARU now on it.


That PI story was a Mark reason article (you don't want to believe too much of what he says) basically rehashing an old idea from the last government that explored the idea of supporting rugby to counter China's influence in the Pacific.

How bizarre.

As for openly hostile... NZR have always wanted to maintain competitive links with the Saffas. The fact that Aus wanted to split is one thing... but while they thought they had a decent thing going with SA why should NZ have split the thing? The broadcast deal was still current then and all three parties signed up to the current deal when it came time. Talking about open hostility is the chip I referred to... you've got three separate unions trying to do what they see fit for their own interests.

NZR looks like having been the best run of the three over the last 15 years... you'd think they might know a thing or two about how to run their business.

Personally I hope the two countries do something together, we need that. I also want to see more expansion into the US. We need that market power to counter Europe.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:27 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
I am not certain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


Some of you guys could do with letting go of the chip over this... Tew was quoted the other day saying that if SA leave Soup then NZ are staring at a financial black hole after 2020. They can't fund it. They're quite open about the risks.


Change your tampon, it was a genuine statement. I was thinking that the situation as it stands now is not unlike the 70's ultimately the ARU and the NZRU are going to have to forge a joint way into the future. It is the best hope for both of them in the long term. Maybe time for the 10/12 team trans tasman comp with the Force if twiggy hasn't gone bust/lost interest by 2020.


You might have missed the last thread covering that... there's been a few of them really.

The writing's on the wall, what it comes down to is finding the best way forward. I agree... they both have to pool resources, you can't go it alone.

While I was typing that out it hit me that the AFL have a broadcast deal worth $2.5Billion.

Let's all just sit back and look at that for a second.

Holy cow. Let's just do a deal like that.

The AFL is a great product from top to bottom. The rugby put on by RA is nowhere near either the quality or quantity.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:29 am 
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Screw AFL and their ‘product’. Rugby is played by beefy lads who like smashing blokes

That’s what it started as, and that’s where it’ll end - even if there’s only 50 of us watching.

‘Product’. x(


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:31 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
grievous wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
I am not certain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


Some of you guys could do with letting go of the chip over this... Tew was quoted the other day saying that if SA leave Soup then NZ are staring at a financial black hole after 2020. They can't fund it. They're quite open about the risks.

Why is it a chip? :? NZRU have been openly hostile about a trans tasman comp with us. Yet then throw out helping out a PI side which would never be viable. NZRU know they will have no choice other than to join in with their nearest neighbour just like every other NZ pro sport has. There will eventually be no choice. Start working with the ARU now on it.


That PI story was a Mark reason article (you don't want to believe too much of what he says) basically rehashing an old idea from the last government that explored the idea of supporting rugby to counter China's influence in the Pacific.

How bizarre.

As for openly hostile... NZR have always wanted to maintain competitive links with the Saffas. The fact that Aus wanted to split is one thing... but while they thought they had a decent thing going with SA why should NZ have split the thing? The broadcast deal was still current then and all three parties signed up to the current deal when it came time. Talking about open hostility is the chip I referred to... you've got three separate unions trying to do what they see fit for their own interests.

NZR looks like having been the best run of the three over the last 15 years... you'd think they might know a thing or two about how to run their business.

Personally I hope the two countries do something together, we need that. I also want to see more expansion into the US. We need that market power to counter Europe.

If youre talking about super games in the US with fans here intetested then you've got your hand on it. But who am I to tell the NZRU


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:34 am 
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SFBB wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
I am not certain that the NZRU is as insulated from all of this as they would like to think.


Some of you guys could do with letting go of the chip over this... Tew was quoted the other day saying that if SA leave Soup then NZ are staring at a financial black hole after 2020. They can't fund it. They're quite open about the risks.


Change your tampon, it was a genuine statement. I was thinking that the situation as it stands now is not unlike the 70's ultimately the ARU and the NZRU are going to have to forge a joint way into the future. It is the best hope for both of them in the long term. Maybe time for the 10/12 team trans tasman comp with the Force if twiggy hasn't gone bust/lost interest by 2020.


You might have missed the last thread covering that... there's been a few of them really.

The writing's on the wall, what it comes down to is finding the best way forward. I agree... they both have to pool resources, you can't go it alone.

While I was typing that out it hit me that the AFL have a broadcast deal worth $2.5Billion.

Let's all just sit back and look at that for a second.

Holy cow. Let's just do a deal like that.

The AFL is a great product from top to bottom. The rugby put on by RA is nowhere near either the quality or quantity.

It does pine for a legitimate international comp and global expansion. Will be flying to mars before that happens. Game is too weird for soccer nations.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:34 am 
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SFBB wrote:
guy smiley wrote:

While I was typing that out it hit me that the AFL have a broadcast deal worth $2.5Billion.

Let's all just sit back and look at that for a second.

Holy cow. Let's just do a deal like that.

The AFL is a great product from top to bottom. The rugby put on by RA is nowhere near either the quality or quantity.


It's pretty much down to your influence that I spent three days this week hungover :x

Yes, the fans need winners. The AFL is an 18 team comp and every year 17 teams don't win. Their draw is unfair and irregular. They schedule favourite teams in the best timeslots and run theme show blockbuster games.

They can't offer internationals. They can't tap into that national rivalry. They couldn't compete with a sorted rugby comp that saw local teams with an even chance of winning. The NRL couldn't compete with a decent Trans Tasman competition.

I'm worse than Towny... every time I start talking about it I get absolutely rigid with excitement.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:37 am 
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grievous wrote:
If youre talking about super games in the US with fans here intetested then you've got your hand on it. But who am I to tell the NZRU



no... that wouldn't work on a regular basis, but it's an area we should all be looking at in addition to having the Pacific teams involved. We live in the part of the world that produces the best rugby players and games on teh planet. We should be humping that harder than a dead hedgehog in a deserted midnight road.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:41 am 
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The RFU have a day to day asset in Twickenham that generates serious coin. Even on non match days they have facilities that generate big revenue.

Whereas the ARU have Cameron Clyne and Sydney Uni pulling strings for their loss making 'enterprise.'


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:43 am 
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Brumby_in_Vic wrote:
The RFU have a day to day asset in Twickenham that generates serious coin. Even on non match days they have facilities that generate big revenue.

Whereas the ARU have Cameron Clyne and Sydney Uni pulling strings for their loss making 'enterprise.'




Don't bring facts like the legacy of Twickenham, mate. A bit of reality. Whatever next? A bit of balance?


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:01 am 
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The resignation of Clyne should come next.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:33 am 
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wamberal99 wrote:
Brumby_in_Vic wrote:
The RFU have a day to day asset in Twickenham that generates serious coin. Even on non match days they have facilities that generate big revenue.

Whereas the ARU have Cameron Clyne and Sydney Uni pulling strings for their loss making 'enterprise.'




Don't bring facts like the legacy of Twickenham, mate. A bit of reality. Whatever next? A bit of balance?


You actually missed the salient bit.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:51 am 
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One comment by Ben Ryan in his interview about the RFU is that 80% of the players in the England team should be from the State School System. That should be the case here as well, spreading the net wider with equal opportunities.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:53 am 
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I'm not suprised that NAB is going to be one of the worst effected out of the royal commission considering Clyne was in charge for the relevent period. Wouldn't trust him to run a lemonade stand.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:55 am 
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Zakar wrote:
I'm not suprised that NAB is going to be one of the worst effected out of the royal commission considering Clyne was in charge for the relevent period. Wouldn't trust him to run a lemonade stand.


Bankers are way overated. They are glorified shopkeepers.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:56 am 
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Brumbie_Steve wrote:
One comment by Ben Ryan in his interview about the RFU is that 80% of the players in the England team should be from the State School System. That should be the case here as well, spreading the net wider with equal opportunities.


Right now CHS chose based on one knockout tournament. Most teams are together 3-4 games max. Meanwhile the private schools play 10 ish games train together all the time etc. Obviously look more polished than a bunch of throw together teams at a knockout tournament.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:57 am 
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Brumbie_Steve wrote:
Zakar wrote:
I'm not suprised that NAB is going to be one of the worst effected out of the royal commission considering Clyne was in charge for the relevent period. Wouldn't trust him to run a lemonade stand.


Bankers are way overated. They are glorified shopkeepers.


I work with them on a daily basis. I'm acutely aware.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:10 pm 
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shanky wrote:
Screw AFL and their ‘product’. Rugby is played by beefy lads who like smashing blokes

That’s what it started as, and that’s where it’ll end - even if there’s only 50 of us watching.

‘Product’. x(

I’m not fussed. It was a comment about trying to get a bit of the AFL broadcast deal. Foxtel buy products.

What’s being served up currently is an absolute shit sandwich of rugby. Poorly planned, poorly executed. Nobody wants to watch losers, so nobody is watching Aussie rugby.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:32 pm 
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I don't think the Royal Commission will call witnesses as far back as Clyne's tenure at the NAB. How long has the cúnt got left on his Chairmanship as he is too stubborn and deluded to resign?


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Brumby_in_Vic wrote:
I don't think the Royal Commission will call witnesses as far back as Clyne's tenure at the NAB. How long has the cúnt got left on his Chairmanship as he is too stubborn and deluded to resign?


It might not, but the majority of the bad shit happend under his tenure. Culture starts at the top.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:38 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
NZR looks like having been the best run of the three over the last 15 years... you'd think they might know a thing or two about how to run their business.

I suspect it's going to take a while to get this - maybe years - but ...

NZR aren't as good as you think.

Yeah, they've had a better run than Oz and ZA, but that's hardly praise. NZR, while good in some areas, are not far off being fucked AC-prison-style. Then everyone will be wondering where it all went wrong.

guy smiley wrote:
Personally I hope the two countries do something together, we need that. I also want to see more expansion into the US. We need that market power to counter Europe.

Australia needs to unhitch its wagon first. The worldwide Soup as the main regular season comp has to go. So does most of the ARU/RA.

Decouple from the committee-managed unions and old farts. Move towards properly backed and run professional teams in watchable timezones. Easier said than done, but WA is showing a way forward.

Then, sure, pro rugby matches involving NZ teams somewhere in the season still makes sense. And, yes, some involvement with the Americas within a limited window is also possible. But the US being the saviour in 2021 is a pipe dream. That horse has bolted now anyway.

And - just quietly for you and Towny - a Trans-Tasman comp won't hold back Europe either. You know that, I know that. We all know it, even NZR. :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:23 pm 
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Meanwhile, Bob Dwyer drops his lollies over Beale moving to Easts

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 4zfqh.html

Playing the ‘we’ve helped the aboriginal community so he owes us’ is a bit of a low blow

You didn’t see us bitchin and moanin when Sean Maloney went to the Rats


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:07 am 
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Meanwhile, on the subject of how wonderful rugby is going in France et al, Brock James, at a mere 36 years of age, is, or has been, going around again for La Rochelle in the Top 14.


Thirty bloody six.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:38 am 
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wamberal99 wrote:
Meanwhile, on the subject of how wonderful rugby is going in France et al, Brock James, at a mere 36 years of age, is, or has been, going around again for La Rochelle in the Top 14.


Thirty bloody six.

And?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:08 am 
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wamberal99 wrote:
Meanwhile, on the subject of how wonderful rugby is going in France et al, Brock James, at a mere 36 years of age, is, or has been, going around again for La Rochelle in the Top 14.


Thirty bloody six.


How old was Brad Thorn when he played for the Highlanders?

More and more players seem to be playing until close to 40. Combination of luck, diet, genetics and training methods I think.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:11 am 
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A few Aussie posters are underestimating how much the NZRU hate the ARU. If the ARU were to turn up at the doorstep with a gold egg laying geese and offered to share it. The NZRU will probably shoot it.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:26 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
A few Aussie posters are underestimating how much the NZRU hate the ARU. If the ARU were to turn up at the doorstep with a gold egg laying geese and offered to share it. The NZRU will probably shoot it.


You don’t understand any of the players involved. You seem to thinking of the ‘battles’ of previous administrations, when they were actually CALLED the ARU and the NZRU.

NZR simply understand what ongoing contact with SA means both for rugby and financial reasons. A Transtasman comp, for all it’s benefits, is only ever going to be a last resort.


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