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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:09 pm 
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John Fletcher and Peter Walton who ran the England U18s since 2008 and credited with turning around a system that wasn't producing England players have been sacked. Dean Ryan has fired them in favour of a restructure and the Saracens development coach he brought it. Which seems strange considering the fact they have turned around the entire youth development system and produced a ton of good players. I say this as given Dean Ryan's poor coaching record, I'm not entirely sure I truth that he knows best, especially with messing a system that has been pretty damn good so far.


Quote:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... n-release/

Current England players and several of the Rugby Football Union’s coaches are understood to have been left shocked and upset by the sudden sacking of two coaches of the national team’s under-18 side.

It is thought that John Fletcher and Peter Walton, who have overseen the England Under-18 programme for the past decade, were informed that they were surplus to requirements on Monday evening.

The popular pair joined the RFU in the summer of 2008 from Newcastle Falcons, where Fletcher was succeeded by Rob Andrew as director of rugby and Walton – a 24-cap Scotland international – had been forwards coach.


Among the numerous players to have worked with them and progressed through England’s age-group system onto further honours are Elliot Daly, Maro Itoje, Owen Farrell, George Ford, Jamie George, Joe Marler, Mako and Billy Vunipola and Anthony Watson among many others.

As recently as this season, Cameron Redpath of Sale Sharks and Ollie Lawrence of Worcester Warriors – both of whom were subsequently called into senior England training camps under Eddie Jones – worked with Fletcher and Walton in the England U18 set-up.


Telegraph Sport understands that Dean Ryan, who arrived at the RFU as head of international player development almost two years ago, was the chief influence in the decision to let the pair go.

Ryan, effectively in charge of England’s prolific age-group production line, has already engendered significant change since the start of the 2016 season.

Under his watch, ex-Saracens academy boss Don Barrell was brought in as head of regional academies last July. Also, as of this year, the England Under-16 team has been abolished in order to widen the catchment area and allow greater scope for late developers to flourish.


However, this latest news regarding Fletcher and Walton has confused and saddened the duo’s former RFU colleagues, their protégés and even some of Jones’ backroom team. RFU staff are already facing mass redundancies but this is thought to be a separate matter.

Yesterday, an RFU spokeswoman said: “We are in discussions with John Fletcher and Peter Walton about their roles within the performance pathway and have no further comment until these discussions are complete.”

Graduates | Players to have made their England senior debut after playing under John Fletcher and Peter Walton with England U18s
Manu Tuilagi, Owen Farrell, Joe Marler, Jonathan Joseph, Mako Vunipola, Freddie Burns, Matt Kvesic, Christian Wade, Billy Vunipola, Henry Thomas, Marland Yarde, Jack Nowell, George Ford, Anthony Watson, Henry Slade, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jamie George, Jack Clifford, Paul Hill, Maro Itoje, Elliot Daly, Ellis Genge, Kyle Sinckler, Charlie Ewels, Tom Curry, Jack Maunder, Nick Isiekwe, Sam Underhill



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Seen this playing out over social media this week.

Of the changes Ryan has made, I definitely agree with abolishing the U16 Eng team. Think it's too early to start narrowing the field that much


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:33 pm 
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+2 on the U16 approach. Taking a select group of kids doesn't matter at that level and keeping the net wide does. There's actually a long-term South African study to back this up.

I've had a few interactions with Russell Earnshaw, the other member of their team - not sacked, but I've heard moved elsewhere - and have seen some of his personal videos of what they do with the lads. It's top drawer stuff! Challenging them to think, be analytical and critical. I've been trying out this true athlete-centred approach myself for years, and it doesn't come quick. If they've been binned because of results, then Ryan had better look at how many U18s from other nations become good senior internationals because I'd wager that England's had the best turnover rate while these lads have been in charge.

Parachuting recently retired pros into these age-grade positions to nurture their 'coaching pathway' - which has been the scuttlebutt on social media - is going to be a disservice to the kids coming through. I've wondered how much eye rolling or un-learning takes place when kids who've come through a very good system end up being coached by someone at age-grade or academy level who's been given a golden handshake job after retirement? (I know I've had some feedback from my own club people in that regard. Any new coach is simply going to repeat how they've been coached without addressing the needs of the people in front of them... worse if there's a significant gap.)

IMO, age grade and academy coaches should be your absolute best, not just in game knowledge, but in pedagogy, sport science, personality, and with AGES of experience at various levels so they can support each individual to be their best, not impose a cookie-cutter template.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Quote:
Dean Ryan has fired them in favour of a restructure and the Saracens development coach he brought it


Unless I'm misreading that, getting Don Barrell in has nothing to do with their departure :?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:

IMO, age grade and academy coaches should be your absolute best, not just in game knowledge, but in pedagogy, sport science, personality, and with AGES of experience at various levels so they can support each individual to be their best, not impose a cookie-cutter template.


From what I've picked up Ryan is all about regimentation & order - he's ex-Army and that's what he knows. Bit of a hard, nasty bastid by all accounts ...just what you want looking after kids with potential.

While getting rid of the 16s has some merits, I do think it's good to give some structure and it's also beneficial to be able to provide bigger challenges to those who are both physically & emotionally ready for it. In Scotland there are 4 regional groups, each with several local training camps and players are nurtured through these. There are regular inter-region games, culminating in several sides playing in an Easter tournament against Welsh & English development squads. Additional players are added in as they become ready and others move on a grade.

At U16 there is a massive skew towards kids born between January and April, but this evens out in U18 as they've all hit PHV ...what's key is that ALL coaches know & understand that it's a late development sport and you don't let visual impressions/evidence get in the way of opportunities.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Market Square Hero wrote:
From what I've picked up Ryan is all about regimentation & order - he's ex-Army and that's what he knows. Bit of a hard, nasty bastid by all accounts ...

beatings will continue...?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Market Square Hero wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:

IMO, age grade and academy coaches should be your absolute best, not just in game knowledge, but in pedagogy, sport science, personality, and with AGES of experience at various levels so they can support each individual to be their best, not impose a cookie-cutter template.


From what I've picked up Ryan is all about regimentation & order - he's ex-Army and that's what he knows. Bit of a hard, nasty bastid by all accounts ...just what you want looking after kids with potential.

While getting rid of the 16s has some merits, I do think it's good to give some structure and it's also beneficial to be able to provide bigger challenges to those who are both physically & emotionally ready for it. In Scotland there are 4 regional groups, each with several local training camps and players are nurtured through these. There are regular inter-region games, culminating in several sides playing in an Easter tournament against Welsh & English development squads. Additional players are added in as they become ready and others move on a grade.

At U16 there is a massive skew towards kids born between January and April, but this evens out in U18 as they've all hit PHV ...what's key is that ALL coaches know & understand that it's a late development sport and you don't let visual impressions/evidence get in the way of opportunities.


Think the RFU do plenty for U16s as it is in conjunctions with their clubs. i.e Wellington Festival. Lots to challenge several hundred of the best players in the age group

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/wellin ... f-1329248/

Just doesn't necessarily need to be cut down as far as running a national side involving only a couple of dozen who will then be in possession of the shirt at that age group


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:07 pm 
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England has such a big number of schools with paid DORs / coaches, a double dose of RFU and Prem club coach educators roving the land, and the DPP programs through the pro clubs that are providing advanced content to and scouting a wide range of young teens.

There's no need to group the best 25-30 15 year olds when you have all of these programs doing good work already. The Scottish approach would seem to be good for that situation, but I don't think England needs a narrowly-focused rep U16 team.

Here's the Saffer study that looks at how many kids progress from lower age groups. It's too bad they didn't keep going to see how many of the U18s made academies / got pro contracts. This is the sort of thing all countries should be doing and as they publish lists each year, and players have to register with the union, it shouldn't be difficult to maintain a database.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ournaments


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Market Square Hero wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:

IMO, age grade and academy coaches should be your absolute best, not just in game knowledge, but in pedagogy, sport science, personality, and with AGES of experience at various levels so they can support each individual to be their best, not impose a cookie-cutter template.


From what I've picked up Ryan is all about regimentation & order - he's ex-Army and that's what he knows. Bit of a hard, nasty bastid by all accounts ...just what you want looking after kids with potential.


He's also all about getting players to be able to react and think to new situations and invents activities to get the youth players to develop those skills. All great stuff, but the execution is what's important, are you doing the right thing in the wright way? Or could you be doing the right thing wrongly? That's what coaching skill is all about.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:28 pm 
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A friend sent this quote, and the article seems like it's behind a paywall, so can't link ... but fudge me, this is harsh!


Quote:
"The decision was made by Dean Ryan, the RFU head of international player development. The Times understands that the coaches, who were sitting on different tables, were asked separately by Ryan to step outside for a conversation and neither returned."



Even if you felt it was time for change - 10 years is quite a long run in sport - they deserve so much more. With their track record, you'd think they'd be moved into different positions? At the moment, things seem a bit silent. Rusty's not commented within his own coaching group the last few days despite a lot of coaches leaving messages of support - shows how much character they have that none of them are having a rant, however justified it'd be.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Seen this playing out over social media this week.

Of the changes Ryan has made, I definitely agree with abolishing the U16 Eng team. Think it's too early to start narrowing the field that much


So being a professional rugby player is the only ambition left for talented rugby players? There used to be a progression of County, Divisional and then England at that age. All tested in real competitive representational games. That wasn't from a narrow player base.

All they've done is take the ambition out of the age group game. For some, a County cap was their greatest rugby achievement and all clubs and schools valued those international shirts on the wall. No more of that then.

Plenty of highly talented lads have opted not to go the professional route often because they are academically bright and can forge a better paid career outside the game. No point making the effort anymore. Another step in the RFU's plan to kill off the county game and hand everything to the Premiership clubs.

From what I have seen Walton and Fletch are highly respected and seem to have a pretty good track record. What sensible coaching professional would want to work for an outfit like the RFU?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:55 pm 
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I didn't think of it, but are there no more county teams for youth? Have pro sides' DPP taken its place?

I coached U15s in Bristol in 2005 and we had a good mix of lads. At the time, England seemed to have a system where boys could experience playing at a higher level without there being much crossover (don't know if it was this way all over, but of our bunch none represented two rep sides. Some who played a few matches for a city side, others who were with either Somerset or Gloucester county sides, and one was training with England u16).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:26 pm 
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There's still plenty of county youth rugby - it's just that the RFU academies siphon off the top players at each age group inyobtheir setup


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Appalling treatment if true.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:54 pm 
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10 years is probably time for a change.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:07 pm 
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I've used my free article view this week so can't cut and paste, but the following excerpt was from Charlie Morgan's twitter:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -exercise/

Seems like lots of jobs were / are cut, but ...

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:09 pm 
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:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:35 am 
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Don't know anything about this beyond the comments made, but given they have been in charge of the U18's since 2008 and England have won the U20's RWC 3 of the last 5 tournaments (and looking good this year), they can't be doing a bad job!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:44 am 
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The RFU are in a bad place.

Not one person on the main board has anything near proper rugby experience.

Manning-Cooper has made so many decision based upon short term gain it's untrue and has a remarkable ability to disenfranchise many she works with. All of the unique rugby culture has been engineered out as they chase the audience of the lowest common denominator- soccer. Rather than differentiate the culture they are looking to compete like for like. Not a good idea long term, but short term, the figures look decent.

Steve Brown is an accountant, Grainger is a lying fraud who manipulates participation stats to obscure the decline of playing numbers, JMC is an event organiser and the rest of them have more knowledge of burger flipping than goal kicking.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:59 am 
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participation numbers are indeed sliding big time, and the 'growing the game' crap- pretty much everybody who would be into rugby already is. it's a niche market.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:07 am 
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Jake wrote:
Not one person on the main board has anything near proper rugby experience.

We Blues supporters offer our sympathy.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:17 am 
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Jake wrote:
The RFU are in a bad place.

Not one person on the main board has anything near proper rugby experience.

Manning-Cooper has made so many decision based upon short term gain it's untrue and has a remarkable ability to disenfranchise many she works with. All of the unique rugby culture has been engineered out as they chase the audience of the lowest common denominator- soccer. Rather than differentiate the culture they are looking to compete like for like. Not a good idea long term, but short term, the figures look decent.

Steve Brown is an accountant, Grainger is a lying fraud who manipulates participation stats to obscure the decline of playing numbers, JMC is an event organiser and the rest of them have more knowledge of burger flipping than goal kicking.


Hmmm.

The rugby "experience" bit and different names aside, this scene just seems so ... familiar ...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:23 am 
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Jake wrote:
The RFU are in a bad place.

Not one person on the main board has anything near proper rugby experience.

Manning-Cooper has made so many decision based upon short term gain it's untrue and has a remarkable ability to disenfranchise many she works with. All of the unique rugby culture has been engineered out as they chase the audience of the lowest common denominator- soccer. Rather than differentiate the culture they are looking to compete like for like. Not a good idea long term, but short term, the figures look decent.

Steve Brown is an accountant, Grainger is a lying fraud who manipulates participation stats to obscure the decline of playing numbers, JMC is an event organiser and the rest of them have more knowledge of burger flipping than goal kicking.


My perspective is (pure speculation and observation) is a lot of people who earned big bucks on various London 2012 committees and groups found easy refuge after it in RFU appointments. The RFU desperate to bring in "successful" people and many CVs claiming credit for what we know was basically the pretty unable to fail success of the London Olympics or other big sporting events in the UK.

BTW, what's your opinion on Sue Day, one of the few rugby people in there?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:26 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Jake wrote:
The RFU are in a bad place.

Not one person on the main board has anything near proper rugby experience.

Manning-Cooper has made so many decision based upon short term gain it's untrue and has a remarkable ability to disenfranchise many she works with. All of the unique rugby culture has been engineered out as they chase the audience of the lowest common denominator- soccer. Rather than differentiate the culture they are looking to compete like for like. Not a good idea long term, but short term, the figures look decent.

Steve Brown is an accountant, Grainger is a lying fraud who manipulates participation stats to obscure the decline of playing numbers, JMC is an event organiser and the rest of them have more knowledge of burger flipping than goal kicking.


My perspective is (pure speculation and observation) is a lot of people who earned big bucks on various London 2012 committees and groups found easy refuge after it in RFU appointments. The RFU desperate to bring in "successful" people and many CVs claiming credit for what we know was basically the pretty unable to fail success of the London Olympics.


Absolutely dead on. In fairness, JMC also delivered the RWC2015 and was good. But anyone could have done that in fairness. It was almost impossible to fail.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:28 am 
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Jake wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Jake wrote:
The RFU are in a bad place.

Not one person on the main board has anything near proper rugby experience.

Manning-Cooper has made so many decision based upon short term gain it's untrue and has a remarkable ability to disenfranchise many she works with. All of the unique rugby culture has been engineered out as they chase the audience of the lowest common denominator- soccer. Rather than differentiate the culture they are looking to compete like for like. Not a good idea long term, but short term, the figures look decent.

Steve Brown is an accountant, Grainger is a lying fraud who manipulates participation stats to obscure the decline of playing numbers, JMC is an event organiser and the rest of them have more knowledge of burger flipping than goal kicking.


My perspective is (pure speculation and observation) is a lot of people who earned big bucks on various London 2012 committees and groups found easy refuge after it in RFU appointments. The RFU desperate to bring in "successful" people and many CVs claiming credit for what we know was basically the pretty unable to fail success of the London Olympics.


Absolutely dead on. In fairness, JMC also delivered the RWC2015 and was good. But anyone could have done that in fairness. It was almost impossible to fail.


Indeed, big sporting event in the UK = impossible to fail as Britian has to be one of the countries with the money and some of the broadest interests in sport, especially the big events.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:09 am 
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kiap wrote:

Hmmm.

The rugby "experience" bit and different names aside, this scene just seems so ... familiar ...


'tis all about the Benjamins now


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:41 pm 
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More on what appears to be Dean Ryan's ego trip. He seems to be firing everybody who doesn't conform to his way of thinking. Despite the fact he has no background in youth development and the coaches he is firing have turned a dead program into one of the worlds two best:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... authority/

Quote:

By beating South Africa 32-31 on Tuesday night, England reached the World Under-20 Championship final for a record sixth consecutive occasion. On the surface that would appear to be yet another vindication of the Rugby Football Union’s youth development policy but behind the scenes the most successful programme within English professional rugby is being ruthlessly dismantled.

At least seven members of the development programme have moved on since Dean Ryan took over as the head of international player development less than two years ago.

The latest victims of the bloodletting are John Fletcher and Peter Walton, the universally popular former coaches of the England Under-18 team who were summarily dismissed last week at a coaching conference.

The Daily Telegraph understands that this came shortly after Fletcher had challenged Ryan’s view in public.

Their departures led to an outpouring of support from players past and present.

Bath and England full back Anthony Watson tweeted:


Anthony Watson

@anthonywatson_
Sad to see two unbelievable coaches and better blokes in Fletch and @waltsrugby moved on. Both had an immeasurable influence on my career at that age and beyond. No matter where they end up I have no doubt they’ll have as much success there as they did at U18 level.



The way this is being presented it sounds like Dean Ryan is more interest in being in control rather than building upon great success.

Quote:

From the England XV that lost 42-39 to South Africa in Johannesburg, 11 players had come through the Under-18 programme. “They can’t even begin to estimate the value and the work that him and Peter Walton have done,” an insider said.

“They have so much experience in youth development that cannot be replaced. They were a priceless asset.”

Not everyone has been pushed. Some have jumped and others stepped aside soon after Ryan was appointed by the RFU’s professional rugby director, Nigel Melville, in July 2016.

Those departures include Martin Haag, who led England to the World Rugby Under-20 World Championship in 2016, Richard Shuttleworth, the professional coach development manager, Alan Powell, the head of regional academies who has taken up a similar role with the English Cricket Board, sports psychologist James Bell and strength and conditioning coach Neil Taylor.

“Unless you conform to Dean’s way of thinking then you are living on borrowed time,” a source claimed.

Ryan was always a curious appointment. Even his detractors acknowledge that he has a phenomenal rugby brain yet he has next to no background in youth development. What he did have was a long association with Melville going back to their days at Wasps and Gloucester together. “They are best mates,” one source said.

With the backing of Melville, who took over the role from Rob Andrew, there have been few curbs upon Ryan’s influence.

Haag, the England Under-20 coach, was gone within four months of winning the 2016 Junior World Championship.

His replacement was Steve Bates, who also played with Melville and Ryan at Wasps during the 1990s.


Great! Losing knowledge and talent from the pathways of the English game. Oh and Ryan weilds power not because he is proven experience, but because he's best mates with the guy in charge and he talks a good game. Sounds like English/British institutions in a nutshell.


Quote:

Just as abrupt as the personnel turnover has been the shift in philosophy involving a detail-orientated, structure-driven approach towards youth development, a virtual 180-degree shift.


Oh FFS! Just what English players in development need, more rigid structure. I think Dean Ryan is a dinosaur, development pathways for youth need flexibility. Sounds like he's turning England Rugby youth programs into the army rather then an understanding of experienced development methods. The problem with that approach is it doesn't work when the talent involved doesn't sign-up for the army. E.g. It tends to push young talent away, not draw them in.


Quote:
None of this is to say that Ryan’s approach or appointments will not be successful, particularly with the England Under-20 team seeking a fourth world title in six years against France on Sunday.

However, the true effects of his overhaul will not be felt for a further four or five years.

Maybe revolution was needed, but it seems perverse to jettison so much of the personnel in the one area in which England are world leaders. Time will tell.



I suspect I can already see the outcome here. Dean Ryan may talk rugby, but he's also appearing to not know how to understand the modern world approaches to player focused peadogogy and his mentality is buried in his army days decades ago.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:06 pm 
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Jake wrote:
The RFU are in a bad place.

Not one person on the main board has anything near proper rugby experience.

Manning-Cooper has made so many decision based upon short term gain it's untrue and has a remarkable ability to disenfranchise many she works with. All of the unique rugby culture has been engineered out as they chase the audience of the lowest common denominator- soccer. Rather than differentiate the culture they are looking to compete like for like. Not a good idea long term, but short term, the figures look decent.

Steve Brown is an accountant, Grainger is a lying fraud who manipulates participation stats to obscure the decline of playing numbers, JMC is an event organiser and the rest of them have more knowledge of burger flipping than goal kicking.


Yeah but it was Dean Ryan who did this, right? I'd say his rugby experience stands up to scrutiny.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:11 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Jake wrote:
The RFU are in a bad place.

Not one person on the main board has anything near proper rugby experience.

Manning-Cooper has made so many decision based upon short term gain it's untrue and has a remarkable ability to disenfranchise many she works with. All of the unique rugby culture has been engineered out as they chase the audience of the lowest common denominator- soccer. Rather than differentiate the culture they are looking to compete like for like. Not a good idea long term, but short term, the figures look decent.

Steve Brown is an accountant, Grainger is a lying fraud who manipulates participation stats to obscure the decline of playing numbers, JMC is an event organiser and the rest of them have more knowledge of burger flipping than goal kicking.


Yeah but it was Dean Ryan who did this, right? I'd say his rugby experience stands up to scrutiny.


But his success does not, compared to the coaches he is getting rid of.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:22 pm 
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Ooh, I'm going to a presentation by Shuttleworth on Friday. Wonder if I can question him on this subject?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Jim Mallinder appointed RFU's new pathway performance coach. I can't think of someone worse with youth then Mallinder in his time at Northampton. The RFU seems to be moving towards a jobs for the boys approach rather than away from it to a more professionalized, your success counts unit. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
Ooh, I'm going to a presentation by Shuttleworth on Friday. Wonder if I can question him on this subject?


DO IT! AT leats after the presentation in a casual chat like way :nod:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:05 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Jim Mallinder appointed RFU's new pathway performance coach. I can't think of someone worse with youth then Mallinder in his time at Northampton. The RFU seems to be moving towards a jobs for the boys approach rather than away from it to a more professionalized, your success counts unit. :(


Northampton haven't exactly been full of youngsters banging on the door of first team selection though. Can't think of too many top quality prospects that slipped through the net there. Whether that's the result of a poor catchment area or issues further down the pathway there, I'm not sure.

Until the last few season he had a good track record of success there (often touted with Baxter as the next in line for the England job).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Jim Mallinder appointed RFU's new pathway performance coach. I can't think of someone worse with youth then Mallinder in his time at Northampton. The RFU seems to be moving towards a jobs for the boys approach rather than away from it to a more professionalized, your success counts unit. :(


Northampton haven't exactly been full of youngsters banging on the door of first team selection though. Can't think of too many top quality prospects that slipped through the net there. Whether that's the result of a poor catchment area or issues further down the pathway there, I'm not sure.

Until the last few season he had a good track record of success there (often touted with Baxter as the next in line for the England job).


Mallinder also had a decent record as England Academy coach and with the Saxons prior to Saints; he’s hardly inexperienced as a youth coach.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:51 pm 
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As long as Jim keeps away from Dorian West he should do ok.

He’s a bit of a schoolmaster like Lancaster, good with young boys.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:36 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Ooh, I'm going to a presentation by Shuttleworth on Friday. Wonder if I can question him on this subject?


DO IT! AT leats after the presentation in a casual chat like way :nod:


He was at another location on Wednesday and a friend who was there said he talked about his RFU experiences and said that England don't have the players to win the RWC (probably not a stretch of a statement, because since the fall I've felt that quite a few regulars are nowhere near 'World Class' compared to even their fellow 6N rivals, let alone the SH big guns).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Ooh, I'm going to a presentation by Shuttleworth on Friday. Wonder if I can question him on this subject?


DO IT! AT leats after the presentation in a casual chat like way :nod:


He was at another location on Wednesday and a friend who was there said he talked about his RFU experiences and said that England don't have the players to win the RWC (probably not a stretch of a statement, because since the fall I've felt that quite a few regulars are nowhere near 'World Class' compared to even their fellow 6N rivals, let alone the SH big guns).


Not exactly a revelation - even before we started our losing run, we didn't look like world beaters. Nonetheless, it's pretty damning that, with a decade of exceptional u20s teams, we're so far adrift in terms of world class players.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:57 am 
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Oh, have I got some tales to tell! :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:36 am 
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Nieghorn wrote:
Oh, have I got some tales to tell! :twisted:
ooh you big tease :P come on, let’s hear ‘em


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:21 am 
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Nieghorn wrote:
Oh, have I got some tales to tell! :twisted:


How many begging posts until you tellthem?


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