Planet Rugby Forum

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:22 pm**

Mick Mannock wrote:Has anyone declared that Sugar IS racist?

Twitter probably has.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:39 pm**

Ika, all you've discussed is pigmentation, which is but one aspect of appearance. Growing in up a predominantly white society would train you to use things like colouring as your primary way of telling people apart. After all, it's the most obvious. Then you'd use stuff like facial structure etc to further differentiate individual appearance.
Stands to reason that if you grow up in a society dominated by less diverse colouring (dark hair in Han Chinese, or something), you'd instinctively use other traits to tell people apart. It's down to what you're used to.

You're saying that you find it harder to see differences in pigment from person to person in races that have predominantly dark colouring (whether that's hair or skin tone).
That's not contentious. In fact, it's probably a fact that it's easier to discern differences in pigmentation on a person with generally paler colouring. That's not all there is to "appearance", though.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:45 pm**

happyhooker wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
Akkerman wrote:thread is going well, but i'm out of popcorn
Popcorn all looks the same to me
Snackist. There is more genetic diversity within a bag of sweet and salt popcorn than between any two potato based snacks.
I just asked my maize based girlfriend and she can't tell the difference either, so there.

Presume she’s called Maizie ?

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:01 pm**

fatcat wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:Has anyone declared that Sugar IS racist?
Twitter probably has.

I am prepared to accept that this tweet confirms Sugar as racist...if only to feel better about describing Healy as a stamper.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:08 pm**

To be racist is to feel or show discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or to believe a particular race is superior to another.

The key term here is "or show". Sugar doesn't have to hate anyone or feel he is superior to the Senegalese, but he does clearly show a prejudice towards black, African men by joking that he had seen these men before on the beach in Marbella.

This argument as to whether or not certain posters can distinguish between the players in the team photo is utterly stupid. Do some of you think Sugar actually believed he had seen any of those men in Marbella because otherwise, what fecking relevance does it have to the tweet?

There are hawkers from all over North and sub-Saharan Africa in Spain - there are not significantly more from Senegal than from other countries and just like in Senegal, those countries boast a varying range of physical features, including hair colour, hair texture and eye colour. Few of the hawkers he saw on the beach were wearing the same uniform as these players and many of them would've had very different hair.

It is casual racism, it's not at the higher end of the scale but it is still racist. It is a person of influence and fame, trying to get a few laughs by typecasting elite and professional sportsmen from a single country to a whole variety of men from across a half continent.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:41 pm**

Seneca of the Night wrote:I don't know what this place would do without the seemingly endless fine definitions of racism from earnest Irish posters.

Doesn't bear thinking about really.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:39 pm**

Seneca of the Night wrote:I don't know what this place would do without the seemingly endless fine definitions of racism from earnest Irish posters.

Ashamed of their nazi sympathising past I suspect

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:00 pm**

To me, they do all look the same.

In the same way that I'd guess a Korean would think all whities look the same.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:27 am**

Will you cnuts stop arguing about whether or not it was racist and tell me how it's supposed to be a joke? Aren't jokes supposed to be funny?

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:03 am**

J Man wrote:To me, they do all look the same.

In the same way that I'd guess a Korean would think all whities look the same.

On the All Whites theme

World Cup 2018: South Korea coach made players swap shirts to confuse 'Swedish spies'

South Korea’s manager made his players wear different shirts in pre-World Cup friendlies to confuse 'Swedish spies'.

Shin Tae-yong devised the clever plan ahead of South Korea's high-pressure World Cup opening game against Sweden on Monday.

"We switched them around because we didn't want to show our opponents everything and try to confuse them," Shin Tae-yong told a press conference in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia.

"They might know a few of our players but it is very difficult for Westerners to distinguish between Asians and that's why we did that.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:06 am**

Mr Mike wrote:
J Man wrote:To me, they do all look the same.

In the same way that I'd guess a Korean would think all whities look the same.
On the All Whites theme

World Cup 2018: South Korea coach made players swap shirts to confuse 'Swedish spies'

South Korea’s manager made his players wear different shirts in pre-World Cup friendlies to confuse 'Swedish spies'.

Shin Tae-yong devised the clever plan ahead of South Korea's high-pressure World Cup opening game against Sweden on Monday.

"We switched them around because we didn't want to show our opponents everything and try to confuse them," Shin Tae-yong told a press conference in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia.

"They might know a few of our players but it is very difficult for Westerners to distinguish between Asians and that's why we did that.

Now that’s how to turn that racism frown upside down

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:47 am**

So is the Korean soccer coach racist in acknowledging that Caucasians think Asians look similar?

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:21 am**

J Man wrote:So is the Korean soccer coach racist in acknowledging that Caucasians think Asians look similar?

If I had to spy on the Finland team or the Senegal team I would have to identify the players by the numbers on their jerseys as I would the Korean team. I've got no idea who they are. Unless people look strikingly different you tend to recognise them through seeing them a few times. Saying all the Senegalese players look the same is like saying you can't tell Usain Bolt, Kanye West apart from their facial features.
I've only just looked at that picture of the Senegal team and people saying they all look the same are lying. Next you will be saying Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee look like twins

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:46 am**

They all look the same to Mog, which is fair enough. Where he comes unstuck is in insisting that his personal perception, based on a couple of obvious distinguishing factors, is objective truth and that anybody who doesn't see it the same way is being wilfully stupid.

All of which takes us a fair way from what makes Sugar's little joke racist. Which is that he's taken his own "they all look the same" and used it to casually belittle a group of African footballers.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:44 am**

Nolanator wrote:What do New Yorkers look like?

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:37 am**

What is it with those guys in the photo that makes them look like beach sellers in Marbella ?

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:46 am**

danny_fitz wrote:
fishooks15 wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:What bit is "racist"?

It's just a shit joke.
The joke is premised on the idea that all West Africans look the same. It's textbook racist

And, not even funny.
I had some amusing conversations in west Africa where it was common acceptance that all white people looked the same. Generally we were just called 'Obruni' which is slang for any white foreigner. There was zero negative association with the word and was often used to get your attention in a crowd. Outside of obvious markers like hair colour or facial hair most whites were seen as indistinguishable. Gingers though were hunted down and their parts sold down the local fetish markets.

In East Africa they use 'Mzungu' - basically means 'white person'.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:52 am**

I miss the days when your grandma would call the asian lads "pakis" and the only uncomfortable groans came from the family around the table. Twitter has taken those awkward face palm moments and broadcasted them to the world.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:53 am**

Plato'sCave wrote:What is it with those guys in the photo that makes them look like beach sellers in Marbella ?

Do we have a photo of those Marbella beach sellers?

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:59 am**

fishooks15 wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:What bit is "racist"?

It's just a shit joke.
The joke is premised on the idea that all West Africans look the same. It's textbook racist

And, not even funny.

He clearly does not think they all look the same
a) He only "recognised" some of these guys, so can see a difference
b) He did not reference any of the Nigerian squad

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:17 am**

c69 wrote:Ffs it was a shit comment not funny.
Move the feck on.

I suspect, as is often the case, the reactions on here partly reflect people's opinion of the author (in this case Sugar).

Those who dislike him anyway, will condemn him as Hitler.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:20 am**

Mick Mannock wrote:
c69 wrote:Ffs it was a shit comment not funny.
Move the feck on.
I suspect, as is often the case, the reactions on here partly reflect people's opinion of the author (in this case Sugar).

Those who dislike him anyway, will condemn him as Hitler.

I don't know him from a bar of soap. It was a shit joke that was a bit racist.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:50 am**

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
c69 wrote:Ffs it was a shit comment not funny.
Move the feck on.
I suspect, as is often the case, the reactions on here partly reflect people's opinion of the author (in this case Sugar).

Those who dislike him anyway, will condemn him as Hitler.
I don't know him from a bar of soap. It was a shit joke that was a bit racist.
Bar of soap huh.

Is he Jewish? Did I accidentally make a terrible Jewish joke?

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:52 am**

Zakar wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
c69 wrote:Ffs it was a shit comment not funny.
Move the feck on.
I suspect, as is often the case, the reactions on here partly reflect people's opinion of the author (in this case Sugar).

Those who dislike him anyway, will condemn him as Hitler.
I don't know him from a bar of soap. It was a shit joke that was a bit racist.
Bar of soap huh.
Is he Jewish? Did I accidentally make a terrible Jewish joke?

Yup

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:53 am**

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:55 am**

Zakar wrote:Is he Jewish? Did I accidentally make a terrible Jewish joke?

Never heard that myself, so looked it up.

Apparently there were accusations that the Nazis made soap out of human fat from corpses from the concentration camps. Never proven, though.

Have to say, I wouldn't have thought there'd be much usable fat on a person who died in a concentration camp.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:01 am**

Nolanator wrote:
Zakar wrote:Is he Jewish? Did I accidentally make a terrible Jewish joke?
Never heard that myself, so looked it up.

Apparently there were accusations that the Nazis made soap out of human fat from corpses from the concentration camps. Never proven, though.

Have to say, I wouldn't have thought there'd be much usable fat on a person who died in a concentration camp.

It depends how long they had been detained. I do not think Treblinka offered a stay of sufficient duration to lose much weight.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:11 am**

Mick Mannock wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:What is it with those guys in the photo that makes them look like beach sellers in Marbella ?

Do we have a photo of those Marbella beach sellers?

This is what the internet says

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:11 am**

Not just soap - Solylent Grun

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:12 am**

Jeans at the beach

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:35 am**

koroke hangareka wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Most people's have extremely similar coloured eye colour, hair colour, skin color, hair texture, etc. compared to Caucasians where its entirely possible that even brothers may have red or bloke or brown or black hair, curly, Davey, straight, blue, brown or green eyes, white freckled skin or dark olive skin. This is simply not the case for, say, Asians or Africans, in general.

This does not mean other people are identical. Just they look more similar than Caucasians. This is not a value judgement, neither thing is "better" or "worse", it's just an undeniable fact of human demography and reality. Please explain how that's "bullshit" WITHOUT resorting to strawman arguments.
Sure thing. The problem is equating this:
They all have the same skin-colour, the same uniform, the same hair colour, the same eye colour, the same hair texture and very similar haircuts.
with this:

And f-ck it, they all do look the same.
The picture you're looking at shows eleven distinctly different people. You think they look the same because you're seeing just the similarities. Leaving out the uniform and the haircut (which you're wrong about) you're fixating on racial markers. Believe it or not people of other races often have difficulty distinguishing caucasians from each other. Your viewpoint is parochial, not objective.

All true, but are caucasians racist because Africans look the same to them? Perhaps Sugar is making a joke at his own expense, based on his innate inability to tell the difference between African people, and the general disposition of western people to differentiate based on hair colour etc? Or perhaps he's just an out of touch wit kant. Either way, not really worth all the outrage.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:49 am**

flaggETERNAL wrote: Will you cnuts stop arguing about whether or not it was racist and tell me how it's supposed to be a joke? Aren't jokes supposed to be funny?

If you google ‘looky man’ you may see-

When you go to Spain the beachfront is full of hawkers selling fake designer goods and sunglasses etc. These are known* as ‘looky-looky men’ because that’s their catchphrase, you don’t get many on the actual beach in the daytime now because of police crackdowns. It’s perhaps more relevant to working class people and cheap holidays. Wouldn’t have thought many on here go to Benidorm.

But that photo did look like a ‘looky man’ scene...and if it’s racist it’s racist.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:56 am**

Non-white people generally look more similar as they have less diversity in hair colour and eye colour. They still however have diverse facial structures, hence why once you know an Oriental Asian, you could still pick him out of a crowd in Beijing during rush hour.

Non-white is probably the wrong word. Non-caucasians. Iranians and Lebanese for example have more diverse appearances than Africans or Orientals, just like English or Polish people.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:58 am**

Yes, he is.

In other news, Id like to know why white Britons are so ugly, with terrible teeth.

Theyre also weak at soccer, given their population. Yes, I said soccer.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:00 pm**

Plato'sCave wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:What is it with those guys in the photo that makes them look like beach sellers in Marbella ?

Do we have a photo of those Marbella beach sellers?

This is what the internet says

Does that handsome gent sell backpacks. I like what Im seeing. Also, the backpack looks a good deal.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:00 pm**

RodneyRegis wrote:
koroke hangareka wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Most people's have extremely similar coloured eye colour, hair colour, skin color, hair texture, etc. compared to Caucasians where its entirely possible that even brothers may have red or bloke or brown or black hair, curly, Davey, straight, blue, brown or green eyes, white freckled skin or dark olive skin. This is simply not the case for, say, Asians or Africans, in general.

This does not mean other people are identical. Just they look more similar than Caucasians. This is not a value judgement, neither thing is "better" or "worse", it's just an undeniable fact of human demography and reality. Please explain how that's "bullshit" WITHOUT resorting to strawman arguments.
Sure thing. The problem is equating this:
They all have the same skin-colour, the same uniform, the same hair colour, the same eye colour, the same hair texture and very similar haircuts.
with this:

And f-ck it, they all do look the same.
The picture you're looking at shows eleven distinctly different people. You think they look the same because you're seeing just the similarities. Leaving out the uniform and the haircut (which you're wrong about) you're fixating on racial markers. Believe it or not people of other races often have difficulty distinguishing caucasians from each other. Your viewpoint is parochial, not objective.
All true, but are caucasians racist because Africans look the same to them?

No, and nobody is saying so.

Perhaps Sugar is making a joke at his own expense, based on his innate inability to tell the difference between African people, and the general disposition of western people to differentiate based on hair colour etc?

He's poking fun at himself by suggesting that members of a national football team moonlight selling trinkets on a beach in Spain? Perhaps not.

Or perhaps he's just an out of touch plum. Either way, not really worth all the outrage.

What outrage?

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:03 pm**

Farva wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Farva wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
koroke hangareka wrote:
Re the bolded bit. Bullshit. Is that clear enough for you?
F-ck a duck. This is just denial of reality.

Most ethnicities have extremely similar coloured eye colour, hair colour, skin color, hair texture, etc. compared to Caucasians where its entirely possible that even brothers may have red or blonde or brown or black hair, curly, wavey, straight, blue, brown or green eyes, white freckled skin or dark olive skin. This is simply not the case for, say, Asians or Africans, in general.

This does not mean other people are identical. Just they look more similar than Caucasians. This is not a value judgement, neither thing is "better" or "worse", it's just an undeniable fact of human demography and reality. Please explain how that's "bullshit" WITHOUT resorting to strawman arguments.
But that isnt the case Mog. They appear the same to you. Most African nations are far more diverse geneticalky than Caucasian majoity people.

Er, that's not what he was talking about you obtuse freak.
He said most races look more alike than caucasians.
We need a way to measure that. Genetic diversity is a good measure IMO. If it is not perhaps explain why.
By that measure Mog is wrong.

Only if genetic diversity only controls facial appearance.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:27 pm**

koroke hangareka wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
koroke hangareka wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Most people's have extremely similar coloured eye colour, hair colour, skin color, hair texture, etc. compared to Caucasians where its entirely possible that even brothers may have red or bloke or brown or black hair, curly, Davey, straight, blue, brown or green eyes, white freckled skin or dark olive skin. This is simply not the case for, say, Asians or Africans, in general.

This does not mean other people are identical. Just they look more similar than Caucasians. This is not a value judgement, neither thing is "better" or "worse", it's just an undeniable fact of human demography and reality. Please explain how that's "bullshit" WITHOUT resorting to strawman arguments.
Sure thing. The problem is equating this:
They all have the same skin-colour, the same uniform, the same hair colour, the same eye colour, the same hair texture and very similar haircuts.
with this:

And f-ck it, they all do look the same.
The picture you're looking at shows eleven distinctly different people. You think they look the same because you're seeing just the similarities. Leaving out the uniform and the haircut (which you're wrong about) you're fixating on racial markers. Believe it or not people of other races often have difficulty distinguishing caucasians from each other. Your viewpoint is parochial, not objective.
All true, but are caucasians racist because Africans look the same to them?

No, and nobody is saying so.

Perhaps Sugar is making a joke at his own expense, based on his innate inability to tell the difference between African people, and the general disposition of western people to differentiate based on hair colour etc?

He's poking fun at himself by suggesting that members of a national football team moonlight selling trinkets on a beach in Spain? Perhaps not.

Or perhaps he's just an out of touch plum. Either way, not really worth all the outrage.

What outrage?

What outrage? People calling for him to be sacked? I'm not talking about the bored, I'm talking about social media.

So it's not racist to find it difficult to distinguish between individuals of a similar race, but is it racist to admit it?
Do you squirm when you hear whitey saying "they all look the same to me"? What about when you hear anecdotes above of Africans using the equivalent of "whitey" because caucasians all look the same to them?

I know he wasn't poking fun at himself really, but thanks.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:16 pm**

Ah fair enough, I was thinking of the bored. I guess social media enjoys outrage the way PR enjoys a shitfight.

Posted: **Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:11 pm**

It was ugly old school racist.

To defend it as anything else is a poor reflection on you, boys.

My advice is to shut it.

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