Chat Forum
It is currently Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:49 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 14769
Location: Investigating racism in the NHS
Who the f*ck approved this hire

Quote:
The Bulls and head coach John Mitchell are heading for an unceremonious and bitter divorce, with reports of a move to be England’s defence coach a ‘done deal’ – despite Mitchell’s current contract running until the end of 2019.

Mitchell has been up front in the media about the Bulls resourcing issues, using public statements to push for a larger recruitment budget, which has reportedly caused unrest amongst the Board.

He has never been one to shy away from taking a hard-line stance, but his growing list of shortstop destinations raises questions about whether Mitchell does more harm than good for each organisation he joins.

Former Lions player, Jonathan Mokuena, tweeted at the time that keeping Mitchell around “will be the biggest mistake in the history of South African rugby if you allow that demon back at the Lions” during the coach’s stand down in 2012 after being investigated following player complaints.

“We are humans, not animals. We are adults. You don’t curse and swear at adults who are married and already have children – that is not how you treat people,” he elaborated.

With England already under pressure to perform under Eddie Jones, could putting a divisive Mitchell into the mix be like adding kerosene on a fire?

His longest tenure as a head coach is the five years he spent at the newly formed Western Force from 2006-10. Unsurprisingly, midway through his stint in 2008 he was stood down as the club investigated his behaviour after complaints about the treatment of players and coaching staff.

“I have always had an honest and open relationship with the players, and nothing will change,” he said in 2008 during the Force player revolt.

“Having said that, as a head coach you have always got to look to evolve, and I am always looking to evolve.

He retained his position following the investigation. Had he been forced to leave that would have been in line with the duration of Mitchell’s other coaching stints – 2 to 3 years at most. In 22 years of coaching, he has held appointments at 16 different teams across six countries, yet the results have been sub-par with the exception of his short stint at the helm of the All Blacks.

The NZRU’s decision to let Mitchell go after just two seasons in 2003 was motivated by his relationship with sponsors and media, which had deteriorated as the game was entering professionalism. He restricted access to his players and treated the media with disdain, causing conflict with the direction of the organisation.

By all accounts, Mitchell is a deep thinker, with a ‘religious’ dedication to self-help philosophy, which is iterated by his ‘management speak’ and talks of ‘journeys’ for each team. Contrasting that is an ‘old school’ approach to rugby, with a preference for hierarchical standings within teams bound together by an alcohol-fuelled culture.

In his first coaching stint at Sale in the late 90’s, he details a ‘team-building’ exercise he enforced on his team in his book.

“I called the players in for what I called a recovery; in effect, a team-building exercise. I got the forwards and backs out on the field, placed cones to demarcate where they should run and sent them on their way,” wrote Mitchell.

“Afterwards, I called them back into the club, where I had a 55-litre keg of beer waiting for them. I told them that no one was leaving until we had finished the keg, and if anyone needed to go to the toilet, he would have to nail his pint first.”

His booze culture in the early 2000’s led to criticism from former All Blacks, especially from former captain Anton Oliver who claimed in his own book that Mitchell ‘allowed, encouraged and participated’ in a serious drinking culture that impeded the team from sticking to basic schedules – at times the team’s travel could be delayed so that the coaching staff could recover.

Mitchell later rubbished the claims as ‘garbage’ and explained ‘the problem was my more social approach was in conflict with the previous management’s culture’.

His Super Rugby coaching stints at the Force and Lions ended in controversy when players complained about his methods and how they were being treated. In 2015, the Stormers were reportedly close to signing Mitchell but backed out due to concerns raised from the senior players over his appointment.

Player embarrassment and humiliation seems to be a byproduct of his coaching that causes Mitchell’s issues with his teams. He was accused by his players at the Lions of ‘violating the dignity’ of a player by continuously berating him in front of teammates with obscene, abusive language.

“The nature of the (players’) complaints is so serious that we have suspended him (Mitchell), pending further investigation,” club president De Klerk said at the time in a public statement.

In his book he details a ‘shaming’ exercise he used at Chiefs training in 2001 to highlight poor performers.

“Whoever missed the most tackles in a game was given a pair of white gloves to wear during training. These were known as the ‘Fijian policemen’, and Roger [Randle] was the first to receive them.”

The problem with Mitchell seems to be the relationship side of coaching, where there is a consistent track record of player conflict and building resentment that ultimately derails the relationship. It’s not just at one stop either, with players across multiple countries and cultures having problems with him.

With such a detailed rap sheet, it’s stunning that there seems to be more suitors looking to line up his services. There isn’t a more disruptive coach in the game that has had as many fallings out with their employer than Mitchell has.

The Bulls look to be the latest to join that list, with England’s RFU short odds to be the next.

Eddie Jones is a polarising figure in his own right, and pairing him with John Mitchell looks like a sure way to create more problems. Mitchell has not held an assistant role since 2000 when he held positions with Wasps and England. A power struggle is bound to unfold with this England team as two egos try to lead this team.

With Mitchell’s history of dividing locker rooms and putting players offside, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

By Ben Smith, RugbyPass


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Posts: 30087
Location: Planet Rock
openclashXX wrote:
Eddie Jones + John Mitchell = disaster in making

Obviously most Englishmen will not be hoping for the same outcome as you


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 33015
Mitchell was a good forwards coach. Eddie is already s hard task master, so either they'll dovetail nicely or it'll push the players beyond breaking point.

Ideally you'd have the senior players driving standards instead.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 14769
Location: Investigating racism in the NHS
What an appalling track record though. Hated by everyone everywhere he's been

It's a good thing his average lifespan in any appointment is two years because he'll be out on his ear by the time the WC wraps up next year


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 10137
Location: Coalfalls
JM2K6 wrote:
Mitchell was a good forwards coach. Eddie is already s hard task master, so either they'll dovetail nicely or it'll push the players beyond breaking point.

Ideally you'd have the senior players driving standards instead.

The senior players will be too busy drving the team bus over Eddie and John. Repeatedly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9402
We can only hope.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5762
Not a coaching team full of player hugs and cuddles


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 2303
He was a good hard player in his day. I think he's just old school New Zealand which would rub a lot of folk the wrong way.
He has a way of doing things, and he expects people to tow the line and do what he asks them - Ultimately the success and failure is on the coaches/Bosses shoulders, so if he's responsible he's going to control it totally and choreograph every aspect and component so his way is reflected on the field.

I personally don't think that's wrong, but I could understand it not fitting today.
He'd definitely be a hard plum and won't dick around with emotional brats. A spades a f**king spade in old school Waikato.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5349
Send him to Auckland - the Blues may need two years of this to sort themselves out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Posts: 30087
Location: Planet Rock
sonic_attack wrote:
He was a good hard player in his day. I think he's just old school New Zealand which would rub a lot of folk the wrong way.
He has a way of doing things, and he expects people to tow the line and do what he asks them - Ultimately the success and failure is on the coaches/Bosses shoulders, so if he's responsible he's going to control it totally and choreograph every aspect and component so his way is reflected on the field.

I personally don't think that's wrong, but I could understand it not fitting today.
He'd definitely be a hard plum and won't dick around with emotional brats. A spades a f**king spade in old school Waikato.

The right way to manage people is a way that works.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 5961
JM2K6 wrote:
Mitchell was a good forwards coach. Eddie is already s hard task master, so either they'll dovetail nicely or it'll push the players beyond breaking point.

Ideally you'd have the senior players driving standards instead.


Was?

Are you referring to his stint under Woodward way back in the late 90's early 00's?

A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and his track record isn't exactly stellar. He's had some success but more often than not he just seems to be a divisive character who does more harm than good.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9838
kiwinoz wrote:
Send him to Auckland - the Blues may need two years of this to sort themselves out.

Yes, Reiko does need some help with the correct holding of the ball while running.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 24414
sonic_attack wrote:
He was a good hard player in his day. I think he's just old school New Zealand which would rub a lot of folk the wrong way.
He has a way of doing things, and he expects people to tow the line and do what he asks them - Ultimately the success and failure is on the coaches/Bosses shoulders, so if he's responsible he's going to control it totally and choreograph every aspect and component so his way is reflected on the field.

I personally don't think that's wrong, but I could understand it not fitting today.
He'd definitely be a hard plum and won't dick around with emotional brats. A spades a f**king spade in old school Waikato.



Maybe that is why the Bulls generally players like him. Even if their administration do not.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 21016
I think it sounds like a great idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 2303
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
He was a good hard player in his day. I think he's just old school New Zealand which would rub a lot of folk the wrong way.
He has a way of doing things, and he expects people to tow the line and do what he asks them - Ultimately the success and failure is on the coaches/Bosses shoulders, so if he's responsible he's going to control it totally and choreograph every aspect and component so his way is reflected on the field.

I personally don't think that's wrong, but I could understand it not fitting today.
He'd definitely be a hard plum and won't dick around with emotional brats. A spades a f**king spade in old school Waikato.



Maybe that is why the Bulls generally players like him. Even if their administration do not.


Yeah he is a bit prickly though, as All Black coach he was quite dismissive and didn't play the media very well. I would think Eddie and John would have a similar work ethic and focus on micro-managing, I get the impression they're both very detail oriented to the point of OCD, and someone coming in all casual would have to adjust and submit quite quickly, or the both of them would ride and whip you until you broke or snapped.

Almost complete and total buy in style dictatorship where you just do exactly what you're told.

I don't know that but I always got that impression from both.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 33015
booji boy wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Mitchell was a good forwards coach. Eddie is already s hard task master, so either they'll dovetail nicely or it'll push the players beyond breaking point.

Ideally you'd have the senior players driving standards instead.


Was?

Are you referring to his stint under Woodward way back in the late 90's early 00's?

A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and his track record isn't exactly stellar. He's had some success but more often than not he just seems to be a divisive character who does more harm than good.


Yes, that's what I'm referring to. It was one of the last jobs he had where he wasn't top dog. That may make a difference, it may not, but there's heaps of guys who were bad at being a head coach who made for good specialist coaches.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 24414
I think Jones' head is much harder than John's. And John will be a splendid specialist coach under Eddie.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Posts: 30087
Location: Planet Rock
JM2K6 wrote:
booji boy wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Mitchell was a good forwards coach. Eddie is already s hard task master, so either they'll dovetail nicely or it'll push the players beyond breaking point.

Ideally you'd have the senior players driving standards instead.


Was?

Are you referring to his stint under Woodward way back in the late 90's early 00's?

A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and his track record isn't exactly stellar. He's had some success but more often than not he just seems to be a divisive character who does more harm than good.


Yes, that's what I'm referring to. It was one of the last jobs he had where he wasn't top dog. That may make a difference, it may not, but there's heaps of guys who were bad at being a head coach who made for good specialist coaches.

I was looking at Brian Kid on the City bench during the community shield and wondered if ManUre would be where they are now if he was still there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 5961
JM2K6 wrote:
booji boy wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Mitchell was a good forwards coach. Eddie is already s hard task master, so either they'll dovetail nicely or it'll push the players beyond breaking point.

Ideally you'd have the senior players driving standards instead.


Was?

Are you referring to his stint under Woodward way back in the late 90's early 00's?

A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and his track record isn't exactly stellar. He's had some success but more often than not he just seems to be a divisive character who does more harm than good.


Yes, that's what I'm referring to. It was one of the last jobs he had where he wasn't top dog. That may make a difference, it may not, but there's heaps of guys who were bad at being a head coach who made for good specialist coaches.


Agree with this. Ian Foster is a good example. I shudder when he is talked about as the next AB head coach. x(


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 19731
Confirmed
Quote:
The Bulls have confirmed that they have parted ways with director of rugby John Mitchell after just one full season in charge.

"The Blue Bulls Company would like to confirm that it has come to a mutual agreement with Executive Rugby John Mitchell and the RFU, regarding his immediate release from his current contract with the company," a statement released on Tuesday read.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/confirmed-bulls-part-ways-with-john-mitchell-20180918


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3213
JM2K6 wrote:
booji boy wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Mitchell was a good forwards coach. Eddie is already s hard task master, so either they'll dovetail nicely or it'll push the players beyond breaking point.

Ideally you'd have the senior players driving standards instead.


Was?

Are you referring to his stint under Woodward way back in the late 90's early 00's?

A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and his track record isn't exactly stellar. He's had some success but more often than not he just seems to be a divisive character who does more harm than good.


Yes, that's what I'm referring to. It was one of the last jobs he had where he wasn't top dog. That may make a difference, it may not, but there's heaps of guys who were bad at being a head coach who made for good specialist coaches.


That was 20 years ago. Why does he want to be a specialist coach now? He hasnt been one in 20 years.



I think england really should have gone for a proven defence coach as opposed to Mitchell where there will be some adjustment period for him. its only a year before the RWC.

maybe he see's a nice payday - who knows... but he is a very good technical coach.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3394
sonic_attack wrote:
He was a good hard player in his day. I think he's just old school New Zealand which would rub a lot of folk the wrong way.
He has a way of doing things, and he expects people to tow the line and do what he asks them - Ultimately the success and failure is on the coaches/Bosses shoulders, so if he's responsible he's going to control it totally and choreograph every aspect and component so his way is reflected on the field.

I personally don't think that's wrong, but I could understand it not fitting today.
He'd definitely be a hard plum and won't dick around with emotional brats. A spades a f**king spade in old school Waikato.


Most specialist defence coaches are ex-league guys, like Andy Farrell or Shaun Edwards, so being a non-cuddly, hard c*nt seems very much part of the job description!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6029
EverReady wrote:
I think it sounds like a great idea.


This


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 9402
slick wrote:
EverReady wrote:
I think it sounds like a great idea.


This


And I know this came straight from ER's heart. What a swell guy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6029
LandOTurk wrote:
slick wrote:
EverReady wrote:
I think it sounds like a great idea.


This


And I know this came straight from ER's heart. What a swell guy.


I think we all wish them the very best.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 17226
Location: Centre of the Universe
In response to the thread title ...

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3787
Location: Yarbles
Any of those previous teams have a short term spike in performance during his first season?

Not saying it'd get them a world cup but that's the only way I can understand the thought process of putting the two together.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 17892
England had their worst 6 Nations since forever and lost a series against South Africa while been shredding players due to injury. I can't imagine what a disaster would be at this point.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 3394
eldanielfire wrote:
England had their worst 6 Nations since forever and lost a series against South Africa while been shredding players due to injury. I can't imagine what a disaster would be at this point.


You’ve got a pretty poor imagination then!

The series with RSA was competitive and we really should have won the first match; you don’t have to look back very far to see some utterly horrendous results on SH tours.

6 nations was poor, but I’m inclined to ascribe it to player fitness and burnout after the Lions tour. We still played a lot better than a number of 6 nations in the late ‘00s.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 14769
Location: Investigating racism in the NHS
Sky Sports News reporting that Mitchell isn't even going to be based in England during his coaching tenure - practically an overseas consultant rather than a full-time coach


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 17944
openclashXX wrote:
Sky Sports News reporting that Mitchell isn't even going to be based in England during his coaching tenure - practically an overseas consultant rather than a full-time coach

Article in the times as well. Commuting from sa ffs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 17226
Location: Centre of the Universe
happyhooker wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
Sky Sports News reporting that Mitchell isn't even going to be based in England during his coaching tenure - practically an overseas consultant rather than a full-time coach

Article in the times as well. Commuting from sa ffs.


Amazing given all the budget cuts.

No expense spared ... to see England lose a semi final (at best).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 5581
Location: Leafy Cheshire
eldanielfire wrote:
England had their worst 6 Nations since forever and lost a series against South Africa while been shredding players due to injury. I can't imagine what a disaster would be at this point.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 33015
If that hadn't been a 'c' team sent to die, maybe. As it happens we got a few good players out of that tour.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 17892
Frodder wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
England had their worst 6 Nations since forever and lost a series against South Africa while been shredding players due to injury. I can't imagine what a disaster would be at this point.


Image


That's the "since forever" I was partly referring to. Of course the period of 2004 -2010 (minus the weird world cup run in 2007) might qualify as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 33015
I would suggest going out in the group stages of our own world cup was the biggest disaster


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 19731
JM has somehow been able to cultivate this "misunderstood guru" aura even though his results totally contradict this image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:05 pm
Posts: 10677
I'll reserve any personal judgment on the appointment until after the AIs. Results, as ever, are (almost) everything. I remain hopeful, if not expectant.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm
Posts: 30087
Location: Planet Rock
eldanielfire wrote:
England had their worst 6 Nations since forever and lost a series against South Africa while been shredding players due to injury. I can't imagine what a disaster would be at this point.

The SA performances were pretty good.The first seeds of growth in the reign of Mr Jones


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 5961
Jensrsa wrote:
JM has somehow been able to cultivate this "misunderstood guru" aura even though his results totally contradict this image


Is it the shaven bald head grasshopper?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Achahoish, Alba, bimboman, Bing [Bot], camroc1, Cossax, flaggETERNAL, Google Adsense [Bot], grimoald, houtkabouter, inactionman, jos, Lacrobat, Madness, ManInTheBar, message #2527204, Oxbow, Plato'sCave, PornDog, Punter15, sockwithaticket, Turbogoat, zt1903 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group