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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:15 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
I don't see a thread on the supposed assassination of Khashoggi?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/opinion/jamal-khashoggi-mbs-saudi-republicans.html


They must have gotten to the mods too! :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:37 am 
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Yes: no one is safe!

I've just seen an interview on Sky with a Saudi dissident who said that he doesn't go near Saudi embassies or visit countries with Saudi connections, but Khashoggi was never regarded as particularly incendiary and I wouldn't have thought he could have suspected that he would be set up to be summarily executed.

Footage of his friendly nod to the doorman at the embassy is quite chilling.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:58 am 
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Just how many cameras filming Saudis do the Turks have?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:16 am 
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It's pretty creepy alright. The British reckon it was a drugged kidnapping gone wrong. Whatever happened though, he is either buried in the garden of the consul general, or he was cut up there and moved to Saudi somehow.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:35 am 
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usermame wrote:
Just how many cameras filming Saudis do the Turks have?

Fewer than they will have 3 months hence.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:50 am 
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Bullettyme wrote:
It's pretty creepy alright. The British reckon it was a drugged kidnapping gone wrong. Whatever happened though, he is either buried in the garden of the consul general, or he was cut up there and moved to Saudi somehow.

Sky had footage of a blacked-out van leaving the embassy and driving into the Consul General's residence.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:19 am 
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Be interesting to see if European countries enforce any sanctions against Saudi for extrajudicial killing of dissidents given the response to Russia doing it. There's no chance that the USA will do anything.

Part of me wants to see the European countries have the balls to stand by their convictions whether the US takes part or not. Nothing like expelling ambassadors, but doing more to establish a bit of geopolitical independence.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:23 am 
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Trump is talking tough because you'd imagine condoning the Saudi actions will open a can of worms regarding Gulen and the Turks. Not that they haven't tried it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:24 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
Be interesting to see if European countries enforce any sanctions against Saudi for extrajudicial killing of dissidents given the response to Russia doing it. There's no chance that the USA will do anything.

Part of me wants to see the European countries have the balls to stand by their convictions whether the US takes part or not. Nothing like expelling ambassadors, but doing more to establish a bit of geopolitical independence.

Some senators have triggered something that means it has to be investigated at least. Ah, here:

Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act requiring the president to determine whether a foreign person is responsible for a gross human rights violation.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Found this on Google (when looking up the spelling of Khashoggi), so have no idea as to it's veracity.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-1433170798

Quote:
A source also told MEE the Saudis took all the hard drives from the security camera room at the consulate with them when they left the building.

The Saudis on Tuesday rescinded an offer they made originally to allow Turkish forensic experts onto the premises. Their offer was withdrawn after Turkish media outlets published a list of 15 Saudis who arrived in Istanbul on the same day Khashoggi disappeared.

The source who outlined the account of how Khashoggi was killed said that police investigators were confident they already had enough forensic evidence from searches of the sewage network connected to the building.

A second Turkish source with knowledge of the investigation told MEE that the Turks had video and audio evidence of the killing. However, they have not revealed how they obtained this evidence.

But particular attention is being paid to the Apple watch that Khashoggi was wearing when he entered the building. This is synced electronically to the iPhone that he gave his fiance before entering the building.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Be interesting to see if European countries enforce any sanctions against Saudi for extrajudicial killing of dissidents given the response to Russia doing it. There's no chance that the USA will do anything.

Part of me wants to see the European countries have the balls to stand by their convictions whether the US takes part or not. Nothing like expelling ambassadors, but doing more to establish a bit of geopolitical independence.


Yeah, I think BAE Systems, Dassault and Leonardo/Finmeccanica might have other ideas.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:03 pm 
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danny_fitz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Be interesting to see if European countries enforce any sanctions against Saudi for extrajudicial killing of dissidents given the response to Russia doing it. There's no chance that the USA will do anything.

Part of me wants to see the European countries have the balls to stand by their convictions whether the US takes part or not. Nothing like expelling ambassadors, but doing more to establish a bit of geopolitical independence.


Yeah, I think BAE Systems, Dassault and Leonardo/Finmeccanica might have other ideas.


I didn't say it was likely! Selling the KSA the means to bomb Yemeni Houthis is far too profitable.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Be interesting to see if European countries enforce any sanctions against Saudi for extrajudicial killing of dissidents given the response to Russia doing it. There's no chance that the USA will do anything.

Part of me wants to see the European countries have the balls to stand by their convictions whether the US takes part or not. Nothing like expelling ambassadors, but doing more to establish a bit of geopolitical independence.


Yeah, I think BAE Systems, Dassault and Leonardo/Finmeccanica might have other ideas.


I didn't say it was likely! Selling the KSA the means to bomb Yemeni Houthis is far too profitable.


Yemani war? What war?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:42 pm 
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danny_fitz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Be interesting to see if European countries enforce any sanctions against Saudi for extrajudicial killing of dissidents given the response to Russia doing it. There's no chance that the USA will do anything.

Part of me wants to see the European countries have the balls to stand by their convictions whether the US takes part or not. Nothing like expelling ambassadors, but doing more to establish a bit of geopolitical independence.


Yeah, I think BAE Systems, Dassault and Leonardo/Finmeccanica might have other ideas.


I didn't say it was likely! Selling the KSA the means to bomb Yemeni Houthis is far too profitable.


Yemani war? What war?

Sorry, protecting national interests which are threatened by an internal conflict in a neighbouring country.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Saw that Rinkals, makes you wonder. The Saudi "hit team apparently had a forensic scientist with them, so you'd have to wonder is stuff like that just a play to get the Saudis sweating. May well be.

If it wasnt such a sad situation it would be funny. Seeing Erdogan and Trump grandstand on the topic of a dead dissident journalist.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:47 pm 
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CanNZ2000 wrote:
Canada recently just completed a large arms deal with them too. That actually came with a lot of domestic criticism for the Liberal government. Will be interesting to see what move Canada makes next. Honestly, I hope we don't back down and grow some balls.

:lol: Trudeau only shows balls when a Muslim female is 'attacked'.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:20 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Quote:
It’s not surprising, however, that the Saudi government would think it could get away with it. The United States has long maintained a close strategic relationship with Saudi Arabia despite the kingdom’s abysmal human rights record, and tacit American support for its brutal war in Yemen began during Barack Obama’s administration. But there’s never been an American president as enthusiastically pro-Saudi as Trump.


Not since HW Bush anyway.


There must be some person that connects the two...

Anyway, this business with the journalist apparently killed in the embassy and then carted off in bits is just another thing to ignore.

The oil must flow.



I also disagree with the premise, weirdly all US Presidents and almost all European powers get on their knees for the Saudi's. Not one has been any different in the US.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:40 pm 
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You “disagree” because you aren’t informed. The US-Saudi relationship had low points after 9/11 (obviously) and during Obama’s first term. Trump has never said an even remotely negative thing about them. Even after this incident Lindsay Graham of all people has to be tough with them because Trump won’t.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/10 ... -arms-deal

His son in law is buddies with this guy. You think he’s gonna do anything? :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
You “disagree” because you aren’t informed. The US-Saudi relationship had low points after 9/11 (obviously) and during Obama’s first term. Trump has never said an even remotely negative thing about them. Even after this incident Lindsay Graham of all people has to be tough with them because Trump won’t.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/10 ... -arms-deal

His son in law is buddies with this guy. You think he’s gonna do anything? :roll:


Total bollocks:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... do-differ/
Quote:
Trump said: “These are people that push gays off business - off buildings. These are people that kill women and treat women horribly.”


Perhaps you need to read and get "informed" FFS!

There may have been a low point in US-Saudi relationships, I mean 9/1 was a Saudi plot that essentially ahd no backlash what-so-ever against the Saudi's. But not enough also the US let various Bin Laden related Saudi's leave the country when nobody else could not fly. It was generally the same thing with every US president, hardsher words before getting to power and then corporative talk. Trump and Obama have both done more or less the same thing, Trump obviously more borish and extreme in his language then Obama in both directions.


Last edited by eldanielfire on Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:20 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Bowens wrote:
You “disagree” because you aren’t informed. The US-Saudi relationship had low points after 9/11 (obviously) and during Obama’s first term. Trump has never said an even remotely negative thing about them. Even after this incident Lindsay Graham of all people has to be tough with them because Trump won’t.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/10 ... -arms-deal

His son in law is buddies with this guy. You think he’s gonna do anything? :roll:


Total bollocks:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... do-differ/
Quote:
Trump said: “These are people that push gays off business - off buildings. These are people that kill women and treat women horribly.”

Trump, May 2017: “For decades, Iran has fuelled the fires of sectarian conflict and terror. It is a government that speaks openly of mass murder, vowing the destruction of Israel, death to America, and ruin for many leaders and nations in this room.”

Trump, May 2017: “Until the Iranian regime is willing to be a partner for peace, all nations of conscience must work together to isolate Iran, deny it funding for terrorism, and pray for the day when the Iranian people have the just and righteous government they deserve.”


Perhaps you need to read and get "informed" FFS!


The Saudis don’t push gays off buildings. He was in the middle of a rant and got confused.

https://mashable.com/2016/10/19/trump-isis-debate

And your other two statements are about their sworn enemy.

He likes to dance with them though. And Kushner hangs with the prince.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=runYPf4Q2g8


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Bowens wrote:
You “disagree” because you aren’t informed. The US-Saudi relationship had low points after 9/11 (obviously) and during Obama’s first term. Trump has never said an even remotely negative thing about them. Even after this incident Lindsay Graham of all people has to be tough with them because Trump won’t.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/10 ... -arms-deal

His son in law is buddies with this guy. You think he’s gonna do anything? :roll:


Total bollocks:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... do-differ/
Quote:
Trump said: “These are people that push gays off business - off buildings. These are people that kill women and treat women horribly.”

Trump, May 2017: “For decades, Iran has fuelled the fires of sectarian conflict and terror. It is a government that speaks openly of mass murder, vowing the destruction of Israel, death to America, and ruin for many leaders and nations in this room.”

Trump, May 2017: “Until the Iranian regime is willing to be a partner for peace, all nations of conscience must work together to isolate Iran, deny it funding for terrorism, and pray for the day when the Iranian people have the just and righteous government they deserve.”


Perhaps you need to read and get "informed" FFS!


The Saudis don’t push gays off buildings. He was in the middle of a rant and got confused.

https://mashable.com/2016/10/19/trump-isis-debate

And your other two statements are about their sworn enemy.

He likes to dance with them though. And Kushner hangs with the prince.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=runYPf4Q2g8


I know, regardless I suspect but was more about his not give a shit about the middle east attitude. Not that it matters, all US presidents have had as positive relationship as possible with the Saudi's and none have ever gone tough on them to taken action against them and all tried to defend or praise them. Obama was certainly more critical but he trod ever so carefully and defended them given opportunities.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:48 pm 
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Quelle surprise. What exactly else can they do??

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saud ... ssion=true
Quote:
WASHINGTON/ISTANBUL (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday said he saw no reason to cut off arms sales to Saudi Arabia because of the disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, possibly setting up a clash with the U.S. Congress. Trump also said the United States may be closer to finding out what happened to Khashoggi, a prominent critic of Saudi policies who was last seen entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2.

Turkish sources have said they believe Khashoggi was killed inside the building and his body removed, allegations that Riyadh dismisses as baseless.

In a sign Turkey and Saudi Arabia might be looking for a way forward, Turkey accepted a Saudi proposal to form a joint working group to investigate the case, Turkey’s state-run Anadolu news agency quoted presidential spokesman Ibrahim Kalin as saying.

Sponsored

Turkish investigators were prepared to enter the consulate, a Turkish security official told Reuters, but were awaiting final authorization from the Saudis.

Speaking to reporters, Trump said he saw no reason to block Saudi purchases of U.S. arms or its investments in the United States despite the journalist’s case, saying the Gulf nation would just move its money into Russia and China.

“They’re spending $110 billion on military equipment and on things that create jobs ... for this country. I don’t like the concept of stopping an investment of $110 billion into the United States, because you know what they’re going to do? They’re going to take that money and spend it in Russia or China or someplace else,” he said.

“There are other things we can do,” he added, without elaborating.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:25 am 
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Turks apparently spy the shit out of foreign consulates. Being reported that they had video and audio from inside the building capturing the guy being questioned, tortured then killed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... bf1cb7bf02


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:28 am 
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Interesting article. Although you'd have to think most consulates and embassies are spied on. Funnily enough if you go to the Google streetview around the old Russian embassy in San Fran there's a very conspicuous white van parked across the road from it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Interesting article. Although you'd have to think most consulates and embassies are spied on. Funnily enough if you go to the Google streetview around the old Russian embassy in San Fran there's a very conspicuous white van parked across the road from it.


Image


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:04 pm 
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I see that the watch / cloud thing is mentioned again in this story:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Watch.html

You have to wonder if the cloud is going to be a pretty good way of avoiding getting a hiding or being killed in the future. Just tap on your watch and say 'cloud bro' and the heavies should retreat. If you're asked to take your watch off at the door, beat a hasty retreat.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:48 pm 
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MungoMan wrote:
usermame wrote:
Just how many cameras filming Saudis do the Turks have?

Fewer than they will have 3 months hence.


I’d imagine the complete opposite, they’ll have 100% fewer cameras in a few months. Not even the Saudis are dumb enough to believe the Apple Watch audio/vidéo story. Im sure they will be doing a lot of sweeping for bugs and cameras before the next exiled citizen comes in for a routine marriage certificate application.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:18 am 
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It seems that the Saudis only have to threaten to push the oil price up to $200 and everybody backs off.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am 
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But really, why should anyone give a damn?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:49 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Bowens wrote:
You “disagree” because you aren’t informed. The US-Saudi relationship had low points after 9/11 (obviously) and during Obama’s first term. Trump has never said an even remotely negative thing about them. Even after this incident Lindsay Graham of all people has to be tough with them because Trump won’t.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/10 ... -arms-deal

His son in law is buddies with this guy. You think he’s gonna do anything? :roll:


Total bollocks:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... do-differ/
Quote:
Trump said: “These are people that push gays off business - off buildings. These are people that kill women and treat women horribly.”


Perhaps you need to read and get "informed" FFS!

There may have been a low point in US-Saudi relationships, I mean 9/1 was a Saudi plot that essentially ahd no backlash what-so-ever against the Saudi's. But not enough also the US let various Bin Laden related Saudi's leave the country when nobody else could not fly. It was generally the same thing with every US president, hardsher words before getting to power and then corporative talk. Trump and Obama have both done more or less the same thing, Trump obviously more borish and extreme in his language then Obama in both directions.



What makes you think those comments from Trump are criticisms?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:00 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
It seems that the Saudis only have to threaten to push the oil price up to $200 and everybody backs off.


But that would make everyone else happy? Surely the issue would be flooding the market again.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:09 am 
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usermame wrote:
But really, why should anyone give a damn?

Because casually executing journalists is acceptable?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:34 am 
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You have to be a complete mental case or an extreme dimwit to say that Obama and Trump's policies and rhetoric towards Saudi Arabia is even remotely similar. They're poles apart.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:51 am 
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Well, this seems to be wrapping up.

Apparently Khashoggi had a heart attack while "under interrogation". Sounds legit.

Apparently a cleaning company were filmed arriving at the front door a few hours prior to the Turkish forensics teams being allowed in.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
Well, this seems to be wrapping up.

Apparently Khashoggi had a heart attack while "under interrogation". Sounds legit.

Apparently a cleaning company were filmed arriving at the front door a few hours prior to the Turkish forensics teams being allowed in.


Then what happened to his body?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:30 pm 
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free_safety wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Well, this seems to be wrapping up.

Apparently Khashoggi had a heart attack while "under interrogation". Sounds legit.

Apparently a cleaning company were filmed arriving at the front door a few hours prior to the Turkish forensics teams being allowed in.


Then what happened to his body?

How do you write Leon in Arabic?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:49 pm 
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free_safety wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Well, this seems to be wrapping up.

Apparently Khashoggi had a heart attack while "under interrogation". Sounds legit.

Apparently a cleaning company were filmed arriving at the front door a few hours prior to the Turkish forensics teams being allowed in.


Then what happened to his body?


Can't have a body. To easy to prove it wasn't a heart attack etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Shit
Quote:
Journalist Jamal Khashoggi ‘was butchered while STILL ALIVE and took seven minutes to die after being attacked on Saudi Consul General’s study desk, horrific audio of his murder reveals’

A source claimed to have heard audio recording of Khashoggi's dying moments
Source said that Khashoggi was dismembered while still alive on October 2
According to the source he can be heard screaming in the horrifying recording
Khashoggi was said to have fallen silent on the tape as he was given an injection
People downstairs in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul reportedly heard screams


Quote:
Erdoğan told reporters on Tuesday that police had found evidence of toxic materials and signs that some surfaces had been repainted at the consulate where investigators say the missing journalist was killed.

“My hope is that we can reach conclusions that will give us a reasonable opinion as soon as possible, because the investigation is looking into many things such as toxic materials and those materials being removed by painting them over,” he said.


I don't think this is going anywhere


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:25 pm 
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Seen leaving the embassy just before the turkish investigators arrived ......

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:45 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
usermame wrote:
But really, why should anyone give a damn?

Because casually executing journalists is acceptable?

Hilarity. The Saudis and the Turks casually execute just about everyone. What's one journalist more or fewer?


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