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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:54 pm 
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puku wrote:
Santa wrote:
msp. wrote:
Great thing about stats is you can show what you want especially if you work on the definition of mass shooting,,


No you can't. You can only show whatever you want if you don't do the stats properly.


Don't you have a graduate degree from Oxford or Cambridge? The starting point is not the statistical test you use to test the question, although granted the wrong statistical test can be used, but how you assign data to the groups you want to compare. So in that regard msp is very much correct, you "bellend"


Where did I say the starting point is the test? I regard data collection/sourcing as the starting point for statistics. And explaining your choices around that, as well as the choice of test, is also key.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:03 am 
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Another one of those good guys with a gun that never happens:

https://twitter.com/HeatherLewisTV/status/1159598279375695872


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:13 am 
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The criminals with guns and that whole argument that comes around who should or shouldn't own conventional assault rifles seems fair and valid, I do wonder though what's the ratio of mass shootings committed by criminals or law abiding citizens?

Presumably by criminal there would be some type of baseline. Perhaps a record of violence, a history of burglary, generally something that would align with the type of criminal folk think can't be trusted with the type of weapons that shouldn't be available to regular public?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:24 am 
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Looks like a confirmed sighting of the dayton shooter at a KKK event:

Quote:
The man who killed nine people in Dayton’s Oregon District was seen carrying a gun and protesting against the Ku Klux Klan at a rally downtown in May.

Connor Betts, 24, was shot and killed by Dayton police during the Sunday morning rampage. Neither the police nor the FBI have identified a motive for the attack, though the federal authorities said Tuesday he “was exploring violent ideologies” before the shooting.

MORE:Dayton Shooting: Former bandmate, ex-girlfriend cut ties with Betts before mass shooting

The May 25 rally attracted about 500 to 600 counter-protesters who opposed the nine Klansman who came from Indiana and protested in Courthouse Square. The counter-protest group was fenced 0ff away from the Klansman and several people in the crowd were seen carrying firearms.



https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/lo ... HNRGXyoL/#


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:29 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:33 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:30 am 
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redhouse wrote:
I don't know how people can still blame the tool and not the individual. As Neil D. Tyson pointed out, there is a list of other "tools" that kill way more people, but no one blames the tool then, only if it's a big scary firearm.

What happened when the individual wasn't able to get a hold of a firearm? He rammed a truck through a crowd, or used a pressure cooker to make a bomb, or went running around the street stabbing people.

Which of those techniques kills most people annually? Which is the easiest to use?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:50 am 
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sonic_attack wrote:
The criminals with guns and that whole argument that comes around who should or shouldn't own conventional assault rifles seems fair and valid, I do wonder though what's the ratio of mass shootings committed by criminals or law abiding citizens?

Presumably by criminal there would be some type of baseline. Perhaps a record of violence, a history of burglary, generally something that would align with the type of criminal folk think can't be trusted with the type of weapons that shouldn't be available to regular public?

The other thing is that in places with stricter gun controls getting a gun illegally costs thousands of pounds and are very rare, so rare in fact that in the UK guns are used for years by different people, traded etc. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/gun_no_6_untold_story_britains_deadliest_illegal_firearm) . Whereas in the US getting a gun legally or illegally is a piece of piss by comparison


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:41 pm 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
Another one of those good guys with a gun that never happens:

https://twitter.com/HeatherLewisTV/status/1159598279375695872


Yay! A bloke with a massive gun intending to kill lots of people gets stopped by another guy with a gun! No wonder you are so smug, what a place to live!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:59 pm 
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slick wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
Another one of those good guys with a gun that never happens:

https://twitter.com/HeatherLewisTV/status/1159598279375695872


Yay! A bloke with a massive gun intending to kill lots of people gets stopped by another guy with a gun! No wonder you are so smug, what a place to live!


I looked into this one and there currently appears to be no evidence that the guy stopped by the firefighter and arrested intended to shoot anyone and definitely made no attempt to shoot anyone.

So this at first glance doesn't appear to be a 'good guy with a gun' stopping a 'bad guy with a gun'. Not saying he overreacted though and may have saved a 'moron with a gun' from being gunned down by the police.

In fact the guy stopped may well have broken no laws at all, apparently wandering round Walmart with your shopping cart live streaming while heavily armed and wearing body armour is all A-OK in Missouri according to some people...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Bobless wrote:
In fact the guy stopped may well have broken no laws at all, apparently wandering round Walmart with your shopping cart live streaming while heavily armed and wearing body armour is all A-OK in Missouri according to some people...


He was there ready to defend all the other shoppers from the next shooter coming into the same Walmart and going postal. That stupid fireman got in the way and has now endangered everyone else in the store. :thumbdown:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:22 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Bobless wrote:
In fact the guy stopped may well have broken no laws at all, apparently wandering round Walmart with your shopping cart live streaming while heavily armed and wearing body armour is all A-OK in Missouri according to some people...


He was there ready to defend all the other shoppers from the next shooter coming into the same Walmart and going postal. That stupid fireman got in the way and has now endangered everyone else in the store. :thumbdown:


Zombie by the Cranberries definitely comes to mind. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Bogbunny wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Bobless wrote:
In fact the guy stopped may well have broken no laws at all, apparently wandering round Walmart with your shopping cart live streaming while heavily armed and wearing body armour is all A-OK in Missouri according to some people...


He was there ready to defend all the other shoppers from the next shooter coming into the same Walmart and going postal. That stupid fireman got in the way and has now endangered everyone else in the store. :thumbdown:


Zombie by the Cranberries definitely comes to mind. :roll:


Good tune


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:29 pm 
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How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?

What if one Good Guy assumes that the other is actually Bad, and draws on him? Then the second Good Guy thinks that the first is a Bad Guy because he drew on him.



What a mental society.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:32 pm 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
Another one of those good guys with a gun that never happens:

https://twitter.com/HeatherLewisTV/status/1159598279375695872


Or not, as it turns out.

The armed guy who was arrested appeared to have no interest in shooting anyone. Who knows - he may have been (potentially suicidally) making a point about lax gun control laws...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/springfield-missouri-walmart-panic-man-tactical-rifle-body-armor/

Quote:
Springfield, Mo. -- Police here say they arrested a man who went into a Walmart store Thursday with a rifle around his neck and wearing body armor and military-style clothes, prompting terrified shoppers to flee.

Springfield police tweeted that "an armed individual" was confronted and arrested. No shots were fired.

CBS Springfield affiliate KOLR-TV says Lt. Mike Lucas told reporters police got a call about an active shooter at 4:09 p.m. and arrived within three minutes. According to Lucas, a 20 year old put on body armor in the parking lot, then walked inside with a tactical rifle around his neck and a handgun on his side.

The Springfield News-Leader quotes Lucas as saying the man had more than 100 rounds of ammunition.

The store manager pulled the fire alarm. Panicked shoppers headed for the exits.

The man was taking cellphone video of the chaos as he pushed a shopping cart, then walked out of the store and was confronted by an armed former firefighter who held him at gunpoint until he was joined by police moments later, Lucas said.

Man who allegedly sent shoppers in the Springfield, Mo. Walmart into a panic by walking in the store with a tactical rifle around his neck and handgun at his side while wearing body armor is seen getting arrested outside the store on August 8, 2019

The man's "intent was not to cause peace or comfort to anybody that was in the business. In fact, he's lucky to be alive to be honest," Lucas said. "His intent obviously was to cause chaos here, and he did that." Lucas said the suspect would be charged but the exact crimes were still to be determined.

Security video and the man's social media profiles would be reviewed to try to learn the man's motive and whether he intended to shoot anyone, he said.

Lucas told KOLR the man may have posted a Facebook live.

Lucas said the store's multiple security cameras will make it easy for investigators to study his behavior. "Walmart has hundreds of cameras. Every footstep he took here is going to chronicle and document his actions."

One shopper who was there remarked to KOLR, "We're being terrorized by our own citizens and it has to stop."

The former firefighter, who wanted his identify kept confidential, told KOLR, "I walked up to the grass and asked him if he was the male inside and he stated, 'yes,' and I drew my weapon and told him to put his hands in the air. "He complied. He was compliant the whole time.

"He was videotaping on his phone, which was kind of odd, but he complied with my request that he keep his hands in the air and he asked me to come up there and take his weapon from him. I told him to keep his hands off of it and keep his hands in the air and when the police arrived that they would take his weapon."

The former firefighter said he hoped that by stepping in, he prevented something horrible from happening. "Hopefully my actions prevented something like El Paso from happening," he said.

The incident occurred five days after the mass shooting at an El Paso, Texas, Walmart, that lefgt 22 people dead.

Springfield is some 165 miles south of Kansas City, Missiouri.


So is that all you've got?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?

What if one Good Guy assumes that the other is actually Bad, and draws on him? Then the second Good Guy thinks that the first is a Bad Guy because he drew on him.



What a mental society.


I propose wearing baseball caps, bad guys with guns can wear a black baseball cap, with "Bad Guy" on it with white letters. Good Guys with Guns can have white cap with "Good Guy" on it with black letters..

Everyone knows where they are, and the 2nd Amendment not infringed..


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:24 pm 
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msp. wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?

What if one Good Guy assumes that the other is actually Bad, and draws on him? Then the second Good Guy thinks that the first is a Bad Guy because he drew on him.



What a mental society.


I propose wearing baseball caps, bad guys with guns can wear a black baseball cap, with "Bad Guy" on it with white letters. Good Guys with Guns can have white cap with "Good Guy" on it with black letters..

Everyone knows where they are, and the 2nd Amendment not infringed..


If a guy with a gun wears a MAGA cap, can he actually be a Bad Guy?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
msp. wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?

What if one Good Guy assumes that the other is actually Bad, and draws on him? Then the second Good Guy thinks that the first is a Bad Guy because he drew on him.



What a mental society.


I propose wearing baseball caps, bad guys with guns can wear a black baseball cap, with "Bad Guy" on it with white letters. Good Guys with Guns can have white cap with "Good Guy" on it with black letters..

Everyone knows where they are, and the 2nd Amendment not infringed..


If a guy with a gun wears a MAGA cap, can he actually be a Bad Guy?


A MAGA cap means he’s one of the good people on both sides, on BOTH sides.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:43 pm 
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DOB wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
msp. wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?

What if one Good Guy assumes that the other is actually Bad, and draws on him? Then the second Good Guy thinks that the first is a Bad Guy because he drew on him.



What a mental society.


I propose wearing baseball caps, bad guys with guns can wear a black baseball cap, with "Bad Guy" on it with white letters. Good Guys with Guns can have white cap with "Good Guy" on it with black letters..

Everyone knows where they are, and the 2nd Amendment not infringed..


If a guy with a gun wears a MAGA cap, can he actually be a Bad Guy?


A MAGA cap means he’s one of the good people on both sides, on BOTH sides.


White or Black... It is all in the colour..


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:45 pm 
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sonic_attack wrote:
I do wonder though what's the ratio of mass shootings committed by criminals or law abiding citizens?


Criminals: 100%
Law abiding: 0%


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:47 pm 
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Great news walmart will stop advertising violent video games in their stores


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:52 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?


How do you know the difference between someone having a shit in public vs someone who isn't?

I know you guys aren't as thick as the questions you ask.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:56 pm 
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redhouse wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
I do wonder though what's the ratio of mass shootings committed by criminals or law abiding citizens?


Criminals: 100%
Law abiding: 0%


To be fair he does have a point, when someone starts shooting people in public their law abiding status is severely compromised.. In fact they should be treated as a criminal rather than law abding..


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:00 pm 
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madman wrote:
redhouse wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
I do wonder though what's the ratio of mass shootings committed by criminals or law abiding citizens?


Criminals: 100%
Law abiding: 0%


To be fair he does have a point, when someone starts shooting people in public their law abiding status is severely compromised.. In fact they should be treated as a criminal rather than law abding..


I hear what you are saying but I think it needs a bit more nuance than that


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
Great news walmart will stop advertising violent video games in their stores


:lol: f**king hell

:((


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?

What if one Good Guy assumes that the other is actually Bad, and draws on him? Then the second Good Guy thinks that the first is a Bad Guy because he drew on him.



What a mental society.


Easy. Everyone kills everyone else and then the police and forensic pathologists can work out who were the good guys and who were the bad guys. A bit like Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels but with less humour and more mullets.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:14 pm 
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madman wrote:
redhouse wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
I do wonder though what's the ratio of mass shootings committed by criminals or law abiding citizens?


Criminals: 100%
Law abiding: 0%


To be fair he does have a point, when someone starts shooting people in public their law abiding status is severely compromised.. In fact they should be treated as a criminal rather than law abding..

But what about a criminal bad guy who in a mass shooting situation becomes the good guy when he tries to stop the otherwise good guy who is now a bad guy?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:27 pm 
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slick wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Great news walmart will stop advertising violent video games in their stores


:lol: f**king hell

:((


They'll still sell them (probably in the aisle next to the guns) :((


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:28 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?

What if one Good Guy assumes that the other is actually Bad, and draws on him? Then the second Good Guy thinks that the first is a Bad Guy because he drew on him.



What a mental society.



I keep telling you man, we gotta build a wall.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:20 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?

What if one Good Guy assumes that the other is actually Bad, and draws on him? Then the second Good Guy thinks that the first is a Bad Guy because he drew on him.



What a mental society.


I'm a black guy. The police are going to show up and it don't matter if I'm the good or the bad it's going to get ugly for me :(


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:21 am 
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redhouse wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
How do two Good Guys With Guns know that the other is also a Good Guy With a Gun, rather than a Bad Guy With a Gun?


How do you know the difference between someone having a shit in public vs someone who isn't?

I know you guys aren't as thick as the questions you ask.



Certainly not as thick as the “answers” you supply.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:55 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:25 am 
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What's the fatality rate for video game attacks?

I suppose if you bashed someone over the head with the entire Call of Duty series it would do some damage.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:44 am 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
Another one of those good guys with a gun that never happens:

https://twitter.com/HeatherLewisTV/status/1159598279375695872



Nope...

Quote:
Armed man who caused panic at Missouri Walmart said he was testing his rights

New York: A heavily armed man who frightened shoppers and employees at a Walmart in Missouri told the police he was testing his Second Amendment rights when he recorded himself entering the store, according to a prosecutor, who charged him on Friday with making a terrorist threat.

The man, Dmitriy Andreychenko, 20, of Springfield, Missouri, was carrying a tactical rifle slung across his chest, a handgun and 100 rounds of ammunition Thursday when he caused a panic at the store, the police said.

Pictures taken by a witness showed that Andreychenko was wearing a bulletproof vest.

"This is Missouri, I understand if we were somewhere else like New York or California, people would freak out," Andreychenko told a police officer, according to an arrest report.

He was taken into custody without incident after another shopper held him at gunpoint, the police said. It was not immediately clear if Andreychenko, who was being held at the Greene County Jail with bail set at $US10,000, had a lawyer.

The episode happened less than a week after 31 people were killed in two mass shootings, the first last Saturday at a crowded Walmart in El Paso, Texas, and the second early Sunday near a bar entrance in Dayton, Ohio.

"Missouri protects the right of people to open carry a firearm, but that right does not allow an individual to act in a reckless and criminal manner endangering other citizens," Dan Patterson, the Greene County prosecuting attorney, said in a statement on Friday.

Andreychenko told the police that he had bought a rifle and body armor because of the recent shootings and the fatal stabbings of four people in Orange County, California, on Wednesday, according to the arrest report.

He shared his plans beforehand with his wife and sister, both of whom were questioned by the authorities and said they had warned Andreychenko that he would cause alarm, the police said.

"He said he wanted to see if the Walmart manager would respect his Second Amendment rights," the arrest report said.

Angelice Andreychenko, his wife, told him "it was not a smart idea," according to the arrest report. "She told him that people were going to take this seriously due to the recent events."

Andreychenko tried to enlist his sister Anastasia Andreychenko to film him entering the Walmart, the police said, adding, "He called it a social experiment on how his Second Amendment right would be respected in a public area."

She declined, and he used his phone to record video, according to the report.

In explaining the charge of making a terrorist threat in the second degree that was brought against Andreychenko, Patterson, the prosecutor, drew a parallel to First Amendment rights, saying that a person is not allowed to yell "fire" in a cinema.

It is illegal to knowingly communicate an implied threat to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life or cause fear that a condition existed involving danger to life.

If convicted, Andreychenko could face up to four years in prison.

New York Times


https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-a ... 52ftk.html


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:03 am 
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What a Fucking idiot


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:05 am 
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So 'Good Guy' with a gun stopped another 'Good Guy' with a gun who was just trying to show the world that 'Good Guys' with guns can carry them wherever they want because of their right to form an armed militia against a tyrannical government. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:07 am 
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Zico wrote:
What's the fatality rate for video game attacks?

I suppose if you bashed someone over the head with the entire Call of Duty series it would do some damage.


Pretty high if you use Sub Zero or Scorpion. Less so with Johnny Cage, that dude is a dick.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:11 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
What a Fucking idiot



Fantastic advertisement for Yank gun owners.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:18 pm 
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I just CAN'T with these idiots:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:26 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
I just CAN'T with these idiots:

Image

Apparently he didn't say that.

With the new posts I thought there had been another shooting.


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