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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Why do so many 'new' improvements in rugby revolve around a pool system?

Why can't we go back to big month long tours - The AB's touring England - 3 tests and 3 or 4 midweek games against club sides? Ireland touring Australia with same set up?

Most rugby folk I speak to pine for the days of proper tours.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:44 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
I'm not a fan of this concept. Lots of screeching on this thread from NH based fans, which is always a bit amusing. Can I remind them that the NH unions had to be dragged kicking and screaming into professionalism. You guys felt that if a player had to earn money from playing Rugby then they weren't worthy of playing it. And the NH unions were also vehemently opposed to the Rugby World Cup. In fact, everything that is good about Rugby was opposed at one time or another by the NH unions. So if they're against this concept it's probably worth considering.

Many much dumb!



I wonder does he know who Albert Ferrasse was.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Rugby union is poised for its most radical change since it became a professional sport as it prepares for the launch of the most significant global competition since the World Cup was first played in 1987.

World Rugby, the governing body led by chairman Bill Beaumont, has approved a new inter-hemisphere competition that would take place in the autumn and spring Test windows in November and July. It could begin as soon as 2020 if sponsors, broadcasters and other commercial backers can be found quickly enough.

Several formats have been suggested but The Sunday Times understands that the most popular is a 12-team competition that would be split into two divisions. There would be six teams from each hemisphere — England, France, Ireland, Italy, Scotland and Wales from the north, and South Africa, Australia, Argentina and New Zealand from the south, plus most likely Japan and Fiji.

There would also be a second division, with promotion and relegation between the top flight, a significant move that would give Tier 2 nations the chance to burst on to the world stage. Tier 1 teams would have to play away in Tier 2 territories in league play, something they have so rarely done. The second flight would include the likes of Georgia, Romania, Spain, United States, Russia, Tonga and Samoa, with China and Germany contending because of the attraction of their powerhouse economies.

Matches would be played in the autumn and spring, with European teams playing southern hemisphere opponents in the regular season. There would be semi-finals and a grand final. The tournament would probably take place annually for three years, leaving the fourth clear for the World Cup. There is another option in which each tournament would last for three years.


The competition would put an end to tours by individual countries, though the Lions concept would remain sacrosanct. Significantly, it is not clear if the new competition would lead to a reduction in the number of Tests matches — something senior World Rugby figures such as Brett Gosper and Gus Pichot, chief executive and vice-chairman respectively, plus the players’ unions, have called for.

The decades-long suppression of smaller rugby nations would become a thing of the past. Final agreement on the outline plans was given by all nations at what was described by delegates in Sydney last week as a “harmonious” gathering — another first for the world game.


The 6 nations?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:04 pm 
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DeDoc wrote:
Ellafan wrote:
What he actually said was:

Quote:
The second flight would include the likes of Georgia, Romania, Spain, United States, Russia, Tonga and Samoa, with China and Germany contending because of the attraction of their powerhouse economies.

Matches would be played in the autumn and spring, with European teams playing southern hemisphere opponents in the regular season. There would be semi-finals and a grand final. The tournament would probably take place annually for three years, leaving the fourth clear for the World Cup. There is another option in which each tournament would last for three years.


He contradicted himself later in the article by saying the tests would be in November and July. I don't think July counts as either autumn or spring in either hemisphere.
Whatever about Germany you might be somewhat competitive against the weaker teams above, China are so far off the pace (currently have Tahita and Bahamas above them and Swaziland and Ghana below them in 87th position) it is daft. Canada a notable omission in both ranking and economic terms from above.

Semi-finals and a final would suggest that it is a 5 match round robin followed by 1v4 and 2v3. I've no idea how the logistics would work on that, unless you tried to play 5 games in the November window and then the knockouts in July. That or having the knockout games in a pre-determined location in July.

The whole thing is a clusterfuck


Semi finals from a 6 team pool :lol:

Rugby has an obsession with playoffs


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Quote:
World Cup - The TV rights jackpot?
By Pierre-Laurent Gou via Midi Olympique

5 hours ago

51

WORLD CUP - This week in Sydney, while the World League project has met a real consensus among the major nations of the sport, it is especially the prospect of pocketing additional TV rights that could allow it to see the day from the 2020 season.

One more step towards the World League! The World Rugby Steering Committee met in Sydney all week long to think about " exploring competition models in accordance with the principles agreed in San Francisco to give more weight to the international windows of July and November, " the statement said. first information. The international federation decided not to touch the international periods whereas in the project of World League defended by Agustin Pichot , the niche of the summer no longer existed.

By November and a future meeting planned in Dublin on the subject, the project's " task force" has been asked to focus on a competition played in two stages instead of test-matches. With the start of the qualifying phase taking place in the Southern Hemisphere in July and the semi-finals and final and classification matches in November in the Northern Hemisphere. The principle of a unity of place for the three knockout matches is retained. For the first year in 2020, the first two of the 6 Nations and those of the Rugby Championship would compete for the first trophy while the other countries ranked three to six in the Tournament and two of the Four Nations plus Japan and the United States. United would compete to determine a ranking.
Augustin Pichot (Vice-President) and Bill Beaumont (President) of World Rugby

Augustin Pichot (Vice-President) and Bill Beaumont (President) of World Rugby Icon Sport

The twelfth would then be relegated to the second division of World League. If the format is yet to be refined economically, the project is moving forward more quickly. World Rugby had asked a TV rights agency to estimate a possible price for such a competition. The agency, after an audit, advocated a global pooling of rights to broadcast international games outside the World Cup. According to her, if all countries and competitions put their rights in common (including that of 6 Nations and Rugby Championship), World Rugby could hope to sell a total of between 800 million and a billion!

This would allow nations to get a real bonus over what they currently perceive. Thus Argentina receives only 8 million euros when the other nations of the South receive 24 million a year, France a little more than 30 million euros. The World League should therefore allow the International Rugby Federation to see its revenues increase. It is also a condition sine qua non for it to emerge.


https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/coupe-du-monde/2019/coupe-du-monde-le-jackpot-des-droits-tv_sto6955038/story.shtml&prev=search

Ah, I see now. No thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Also, what happens in a Lions year? We have this shitty competition where everyone plays one another again and then have the Lions tour on top of it?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:13 pm 
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DeDoc wrote:
Semi-finals and a final would suggest that it is a 5 match round robin followed by 1v4 and 2v3.

I'd say semis of 1a v 2b and 1b v 2a. For two pools, a and b.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:33 pm 
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The only way this competition works is either:

A)it becomes a proper world series competition replacing the world cup and 6N/4N or
b) the 6N and 4N plus friends become the qualifiers for the semis

No-one will accept option A (and rightly so) and introducing an extra competition will likely diminish the RWC and the 6N/4N - I can't see the RWC surviving a new annual world competition beoing set-up

Option B could mean that (based on 2018) in November AIs - You would have Wales v New Zealand and Ireland v South Africa in the Semis for positions 1-4, Arg v France and Aus v Scotland for positions 5-8 and England v Fiji and Italy v Japan for positions 9-12 - That would give each team 2 Tests and the third AI test could then be mandated against a team not in the Top 12


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:39 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
That would give each team 2 Tests and the third AI test could then be mandated against a team not in the Top 12

What about if, as proposed, it's contested over both international windows?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:41 pm 
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kiap wrote:
blindcider wrote:
That would give each team 2 Tests and the third AI test could then be mandated against a team not in the Top 12

What about if, as proposed, it's contested over both international windows?


Then its a rubbish idea :lol: Then make the June window proper tour series


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:42 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
kiap wrote:
blindcider wrote:
That would give each team 2 Tests and the third AI test could then be mandated against a team not in the Top 12

What about if, as proposed, it's contested over both international windows?


Then its a rubbish idea :lol: Then make the June window proper tour series

It already is.

Well, it won't be in June, obviously!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:43 pm 
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kiap wrote:
blindcider wrote:
kiap wrote:
blindcider wrote:
That would give each team 2 Tests and the third AI test could then be mandated against a team not in the Top 12

What about if, as proposed, it's contested over both international windows?


Then its a rubbish idea :lol: Then make the June window proper tour series

It already is.

Well, it won't be in June obviously!


I just don't see it working as proposed without confusing fans. My two proposals are neater and easier to understand IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:44 pm 
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The groundswell of support from rugby fans for this is impressive...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:45 pm 
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The only thing driving this is that the SH Unions are on their arses financially. Player welfare anybody?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:46 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
kiap wrote:
blindcider wrote:
kiap wrote:
blindcider wrote:
That would give each team 2 Tests and the third AI test could then be mandated against a team not in the Top 12

What about if, as proposed, it's contested over both international windows?


Then its a rubbish idea :lol: Then make the June window proper tour series

It already is.

Well, it won't be in June obviously!


I just don't see it working as proposed without confusing fans. My two proposals are neater and easier to understand IMO.


Fair enough.

Although I doubt you've put much into it beyond scribbling on a beer coaster. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:47 pm 
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kiap wrote:
blindcider wrote:
kiap wrote:
blindcider wrote:
kiap wrote:
What about if, as proposed, it's contested over both international windows?


Then its a rubbish idea :lol: Then make the June window proper tour series

It already is.

Well, it won't be in June obviously!


I just don't see it working as proposed without confusing fans. My two proposals are neater and easier to understand IMO.


Fair enough.

Although I doubt you've put much into it beyond scribbling on a beer coaster. :)


So more than Pichot or the Walrus then?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:52 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
kiap wrote:
Fair enough.

Although I doubt you've put much into it beyond scribbling on a beer coaster. :)


So more than Pichot or the Walrus then?

Pichot drinks wine and writes on the tablecloth.


The Walrus eats fish out of a bucket ... and no one gives a fuck.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Brazil wrote:
The groundswell of support from rugby fans for this is impressive...

It's truly united fans from around the globe!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Bradwall Boy wrote:
The only thing driving this is that the SH Unions are on their arses financially. Player welfare anybody?

Yup, time to cut down on the 33 rounds of the NH domestic/euro season.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Bradwall Boy wrote:
The only thing driving this is that the SH Unions are on their arses financially. Player welfare anybody?


How are Sandbach getting on so far this season?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Promotion/relegation at international level is utter horseshit.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:04 pm 
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I like how it is at the moment.

6 nations
Rugby Championship
Mid Year tour by the North Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere.
End of Year tour by the Southern Hemisphere to the Northern Hemisphere
World Cup every 4 years.

I think it is a near-perfect set up.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Brazil wrote:
Bradwall Boy wrote:
The only thing driving this is that the SH Unions are on their arses financially. Player welfare anybody?


How are Sandbach getting on so far this season?


Struggling a bit. League position not a reflection of the team's quality. Lost 2 props on Saturday and went down to a good Luctonians side. At full strength we'd have given them a good game. Guys are working hard and Webber's doing a good job. Unfortunately now Sale are playing mostly on a Saturday he's not there and his presence makes a difference. We'll pull through.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:28 pm 
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What an absolute shit idea.

It would only be feasible in 2 years out of 4 at best.


Havent they only recently (6 months ago) signed up to some new calendar agreement?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:37 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Quote:
World Cup - The TV rights jackpot?
By Pierre-Laurent Gou via Midi Olympique

5 hours ago

51

WORLD CUP - This week in Sydney, while the World League project has met a real consensus among the major nations of the sport, it is especially the prospect of pocketing additional TV rights that could allow it to see the day from the 2020 season.

One more step towards the World League! The World Rugby Steering Committee met in Sydney all week long to think about " exploring competition models in accordance with the principles agreed in San Francisco to give more weight to the international windows of July and November, " the statement said. first information. The international federation decided not to touch the international periods whereas in the project of World League defended by Agustin Pichot , the niche of the summer no longer existed.

By November and a future meeting planned in Dublin on the subject, the project's " task force" has been asked to focus on a competition played in two stages instead of test-matches. With the start of the qualifying phase taking place in the Southern Hemisphere in July and the semi-finals and final and classification matches in November in the Northern Hemisphere. The principle of a unity of place for the three knockout matches is retained. For the first year in 2020, the first two of the 6 Nations and those of the Rugby Championship would compete for the first trophy while the other countries ranked three to six in the Tournament and two of the Four Nations plus Japan and the United States. United would compete to determine a ranking.
Augustin Pichot (Vice-President) and Bill Beaumont (President) of World Rugby

Augustin Pichot (Vice-President) and Bill Beaumont (President) of World Rugby Icon Sport

The twelfth would then be relegated to the second division of World League. If the format is yet to be refined economically, the project is moving forward more quickly. World Rugby had asked a TV rights agency to estimate a possible price for such a competition. The agency, after an audit, advocated a global pooling of rights to broadcast international games outside the World Cup. According to her, if all countries and competitions put their rights in common (including that of 6 Nations and Rugby Championship), World Rugby could hope to sell a total of between 800 million and a billion!

This would allow nations to get a real bonus over what they currently perceive. Thus Argentina receives only 8 million euros when the other nations of the South receive 24 million a year, France a little more than 30 million euros. The World League should therefore allow the International Rugby Federation to see its revenues increase. It is also a condition sine qua non for it to emerge.


https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/coupe-du-monde/2019/coupe-du-monde-le-jackpot-des-droits-tv_sto6955038/story.shtml&prev=search

Ah, I see now. No thanks.


Jaysus

That is every bit as bizarre. You currently have 18+ games in November across the 6N - each team having at least 3. As suggested this would have 3 games between the top 4 teams and presumably 7-9 games between the rest - well down on the total number of games. The top 4 get between 1 and 2 games and the next 8 get 2-3 games each. Presumably there'd be some other games organised in that window. But then how would that work - the likes of Fiji, Canada, Tonga having games against SA, NZ, Ire etc? There'd want to be some serious coin for it to be preferable for the countries over the status quo. And even then it seems like you'd be cannibalizing the world cup


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Blindcider could be on the right track here :

'' b) the 6N and 4N plus friends become the qualifiers for the semis

No-one will accept option A (and rightly so) and introducing an extra competition will likely diminish the RWC and the 6N/4N - I can't see the RWC surviving a new annual world competition beoing set-up

Option B could mean that (based on 2018) in November AIs - You would have Wales v New Zealand and Ireland v South Africa in the Semis for positions 1-4, Arg v France and Aus v Scotland for positions 5-8 and England v Fiji and Italy v Japan for positions 9-12 - That would give each team 2 Tests and the third AI test could then be mandated against a team not in the Top 12 ."

Having a play off between the RC and 6N teams, based on standing, would add a degree of purpose to the Autumn international games. At present there is a feeling of '' just why''? about a number of these fixtures.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Backwoodsman1 wrote:
Blindcider could be on the right track here :

'' b) the 6N and 4N plus friends become the qualifiers for the semis

No-one will accept option A (and rightly so) and introducing an extra competition will likely diminish the RWC and the 6N/4N - I can't see the RWC surviving a new annual world competition beoing set-up

Option B could mean that (based on 2018) in November AIs - You would have Wales v New Zealand and Ireland v South Africa in the Semis for positions 1-4, Arg v France and Aus v Scotland for positions 5-8 and England v Fiji and Italy v Japan for positions 9-12 - That would give each team 2 Tests and the third AI test could then be mandated against a team not in the Top 12 ."

Having a play off between the RC and 6N teams, based on standing, would add a degree of purpose to the Autumn international games. At present there is a feeling of '' just why''? about a number of these fixtures.


No there isn't. Beyond the question of the 4th/out of window international the AIs are literally the only time Northern Hemisphere teams can watch their countries play for the second half of the year.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:47 pm 
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Plus if it were only the top teams from each hemisphere it'd be a bit samey for 2-3 year at least.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:50 am 
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Such a shit idea. They are going to super rugby international rugby. If a competition is held for a trophy every year what value does it really have in winning it? Stick to the WC and make the Rugby championship bi anuual. Return to torus in the other 2 year. is better.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:18 am 
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Quote:
WORLD Rugby has backed a proposal to dramatically revamp the Test calendar and introduce a “league of nations” competition featuring the sport’s top 12 national teams, it was reported on Wednesday.
World Rugby boss Brett Gosper said the governing body supported the plan, which is aimed at boosting revenues generated by the international game, provided it passed a feasibility study.
“It just makes sense and it would seem to be the time to do this and there’s a consensus and a desire to try,” Gosper told Sydney’s Daily Telegraph.
The plan would see a 12 team annual competition take place in non World Cup years, with the top six teams from the northern and southern hemispheres all playing each other.
They would form a 12 nation league, with the top four teams entering an elimination phase to find an annual champion.
The Rugby Championship (southern hemisphere) and the Six Nations (northern) would serve as the first leg of the competition.
The second leg between northern and southern teams would take place in the existing July and November windows, replacing the three-Test tours that are now commonplace.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/coupler. ... 5df3808911


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:21 am 
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What a load of balls!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:30 am 
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Yourmother wrote:
What a load of balls!

Steve Tew loves it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:31 am 
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why have two tiers? This could possibly work if you had 12 teams, each playing each other once , so 11 tests in a year plus semi and final . Same format as the old super 12.

I might watch that . might...

edit- i see that looks like what they are proposing after all. I think it may work :thumbup: . still get to have the 6N and 4N (as the 2 added to the 4N would be dead last anyway - at least initially) .

In world cup years , revert to one old fashioned tour of 3-4 tests plus midweek games to get squads well prepared as a team.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:59 am 
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So 12 teams - Top 6 in "NH" = 6 Nations + Top 6 in "SH" = TRC + Japan + Fiji (Sorry Georgia & Tonga)

NH play each other in Feb/March (5 games)
3 cross group games in July
SH play each other in Aug/Sep (5 games)
3 cross group games in November

SF + GF played ???


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:55 am 
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11-13 tests a year.... in one competition.
Domestic rugby will suffer with all their "stars" away all the time.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:59 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
11-13 tests a year.... in one competition.
Domestic rugby will suffer with all their "stars" away all the time.


No, that’s 11-13 tests “replacing” the current 11-13 tests these nations play against each other.

As problematic as this idea is, they’re not actually suggesting adding another dozen tests each on top of the existing schedule


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:00 am 
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naki wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
11-13 tests a year.... in one competition.
Domestic rugby will suffer with all their "stars" away all the time.


No, that’s 11-13 tests “replacing” the current 11-13 tests these nations play against each other.

As problematic as this idea is, they’re not actually suggesting adding another dozen tests each on top of the existing schedule



Yes. I understand it so. Will the European clubs (esp. France) play ball with this ? Release the top players ?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:02 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
naki wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
11-13 tests a year.... in one competition.
Domestic rugby will suffer with all their "stars" away all the time.


No, that’s 11-13 tests “replacing” the current 11-13 tests these nations play against each other.

As problematic as this idea is, they’re not actually suggesting adding another dozen tests each on top of the existing schedule



Yes. I understand it so. Will the European clubs (esp. France) play ball with this ? Release the top players ?


Wilson, you’re not getting it. This comp will exist within the current windows eg the times the clubs already have to release players anyway


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:03 am 
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Somebody will have the advantage November.
NH teams just past the start of a season, SH past their end, already.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:10 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Somebody will have the advantage November.
NH teams just past the start of a season, SH past their end, already.


Again, that’s the same as it stands now and in theory each team can accumulate points when it’s their ‘peak’ window.

No matter how this comp plays out, we will see the same excuses from us all

- if a SH team loses in June it’s because they’re rusty
- if a NH team loses in June it’s because they’re tired
- if a SH team loses in November it’s because they’re tired
- if a NH team blah blah etc


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