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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:33 am 
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Farva wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
All this talk about finding this that and the other solution is bollox. Ever since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet for human habitation. Maybe previous generations knew the score. I know this generation certainly knows It's f**king the planet and there will be no magic solution found. There is no money in finding a solution that lets us keep doing what we want and prevent global warming.


Disagree. I think we can achieve zero carbon emission energy production by utilising storage and solar / wind generation, and then utilise EVs such that there are zero emissions from vehicles too. I think these are already, or will become so soon, cost effective solutions.
I also think deforestation can be managed through revegetation regimes.
That covers the major forms of carbon emissions. Livestock account for around 18% and cement manufacture account for around 5% of greenhouse gas emissions and I think they will be tough to bring down.


Air transport is the biggie that won't find a "green" solution.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:36 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
Farva wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
All this talk about finding this that and the other solution is bollox. Ever since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet for human habitation. Maybe previous generations knew the score. I know this generation certainly knows It's f**king the planet and there will be no magic solution found. There is no money in finding a solution that lets us keep doing what we want and prevent global warming.


Disagree. I think we can achieve zero carbon emission energy production by utilising storage and solar / wind generation, and then utilise EVs such that there are zero emissions from vehicles too. I think these are already, or will become so soon, cost effective solutions.
I also think deforestation can be managed through revegetation regimes.
That covers the major forms of carbon emissions. Livestock account for around 18% and cement manufacture account for around 5% of greenhouse gas emissions and I think they will be tough to bring down.


Air transport is the biggie that won't find a "green" solution.

A carbon tax is the only thing that will work for that one. Price people out of unnecessary aircraft journeys.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:38 am 
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Or just try and offset it with carbon capture mechanisms? Probably not feasible, I don't know the numbers involved.
Once we're stuck making synthetic jet fuel, the prices will skyrocket in any case.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:58 am 
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Farva wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
All this talk about finding this that and the other solution is bollox. Ever since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet for human habitation. Maybe previous generations knew the score. I know this generation certainly knows It's f**king the planet and there will be no magic solution found. There is no money in finding a solution that lets us keep doing what we want and prevent global warming.


Disagree. I think we can achieve zero carbon emission energy production by utilising storage and solar / wind generation, and then utilise EVs such that there are zero emissions from vehicles too. I think these are already, or will become so soon, cost effective solutions.
I also think deforestation can be managed through revegetation regimes.
That covers the major forms of carbon emissions. Livestock account for around 18% and cement manufacture account for around 5% of greenhouse gas emissions and I think they will be tough to bring down.


Wow. What an absolutely retarded post. Remarkable.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:00 pm 
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I see Scottish Power are selling the gas powered plants in order to go 100% renewable. But are also flogging their hydro plants which is a bit of a head scratcher.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Heymans wrote:
Farva wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
All this talk about finding this that and the other solution is bollox. Ever since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet for human habitation. Maybe previous generations knew the score. I know this generation certainly knows It's f**king the planet and there will be no magic solution found. There is no money in finding a solution that lets us keep doing what we want and prevent global warming.


Disagree. I think we can achieve zero carbon emission energy production by utilising storage and solar / wind generation, and then utilise EVs such that there are zero emissions from vehicles too. I think these are already, or will become so soon, cost effective solutions.
I also think deforestation can be managed through revegetation regimes.
That covers the major forms of carbon emissions. Livestock account for around 18% and cement manufacture account for around 5% of greenhouse gas emissions and I think they will be tough to bring down.


Wow. What an absolutely retarded post. Remarkable.

:?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:



So not much then.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Heymans wrote:
Farva wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
All this talk about finding this that and the other solution is bollox. Ever since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet for human habitation. Maybe previous generations knew the score. I know this generation certainly knows It's f**king the planet and there will be no magic solution found. There is no money in finding a solution that lets us keep doing what we want and prevent global warming.


Disagree. I think we can achieve zero carbon emission energy production by utilising storage and solar / wind generation, and then utilise EVs such that there are zero emissions from vehicles too. I think these are already, or will become so soon, cost effective solutions.
I also think deforestation can be managed through revegetation regimes.
That covers the major forms of carbon emissions. Livestock account for around 18% and cement manufacture account for around 5% of greenhouse gas emissions and I think they will be tough to bring down.


Wow. What an absolutely retarded post. Remarkable.

Perhaps a response explaining why as opposed to just a dismissive post.
Or maybe you cant add anything?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:38 pm 
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hermie wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Farva wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
All this talk about finding this that and the other solution is bollox. Ever since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet for human habitation. Maybe previous generations knew the score. I know this generation certainly knows It's f**king the planet and there will be no magic solution found. There is no money in finding a solution that lets us keep doing what we want and prevent global warming.


Disagree. I think we can achieve zero carbon emission energy production by utilising storage and solar / wind generation, and then utilise EVs such that there are zero emissions from vehicles too. I think these are already, or will become so soon, cost effective solutions.
I also think deforestation can be managed through revegetation regimes.
That covers the major forms of carbon emissions. Livestock account for around 18% and cement manufacture account for around 5% of greenhouse gas emissions and I think they will be tough to bring down.


Air transport is the biggie that won't find a "green" solution.

A carbon tax is the only thing that will work for that one. Price people out of unnecessary aircraft journeys.

I dont think you can kill off air travel and it will be difficult to replace jet fuel with an alternative. However, high speed trains etc offer an alternative to domestic travel or travel around continents. So it can be decreased. And it only makes up a few percent of total emissions overall.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Quote:
I dont think you can kill off air travel and it will be difficult to replace jet fuel with an alternative. However, high speed trains etc offer an alternative to domestic travel or travel around continents. So it can be decreased. And it only makes up a few percent of total emissions overall


High speed train in the UK coming it at 184 million a mile.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:48 pm 
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And yet many countries manage to afford it and have it thrive.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Farva wrote:
And yet many countries manage to afford it and have it thrive.



And how many jets have been replaced ?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:51 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Farva wrote:
And yet many countries manage to afford it and have it thrive.



And how many jets have been replaced ?

One would assume enough to cater for all of the passengers that ride them?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:54 pm 
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... bal-routes


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Farva wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Farva wrote:
And yet many countries manage to afford it and have it thrive.



And how many jets have been replaced ?

One would assume enough to cater for all of the passengers that ride them?



Shall we even bother listing the growth of jet travel on the last 20 years?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:58 pm 
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we are f**ked.

No one wants to live sustainably in the west because it would involve significant hardship.

everyone in the developing world understandably wants to live like the west as it is less hard.

The way our societies are set up mean that no politician could ever make the changes needed to reverse the course we are on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFxjnUPRwx4


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:02 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Farva wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Farva wrote:
And yet many countries manage to afford it and have it thrive.



And how many jets have been replaced ?

One would assume enough to cater for all of the passengers that ride them?


Shall we even bother listing the growth of jet travel on the last 20 years?


Yes. Which you manage through a carbon tax that pulls back the low cost carriers and then business travel is catered for on high speed trains


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:09 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2DqCxzszK4

A funny/infuriating look at it


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:14 pm 
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bimboman wrote:


Ah. I should've checked who I was replying to. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:49 pm 
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etherman wrote:
I see Scottish Power are selling the gas powered plants in order to go 100% renewable. But are also flogging their hydro plants which is a bit of a head scratcher.

It's a national disgrace that Scotland can do so much with offshore wind but Ireland can't.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Farva wrote:
Heymans wrote:
Farva wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
All this talk about finding this that and the other solution is bollox. Ever since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet for human habitation. Maybe previous generations knew the score. I know this generation certainly knows It's f**king the planet and there will be no magic solution found. There is no money in finding a solution that lets us keep doing what we want and prevent global warming.


Disagree. I think we can achieve zero carbon emission energy production by utilising storage and solar / wind generation, and then utilise EVs such that there are zero emissions from vehicles too. I think these are already, or will become so soon, cost effective solutions.
I also think deforestation can be managed through revegetation regimes.
That covers the major forms of carbon emissions. Livestock account for around 18% and cement manufacture account for around 5% of greenhouse gas emissions and I think they will be tough to bring down.


Wow. What an absolutely retarded post. Remarkable.

Perhaps a response explaining why as opposed to just a dismissive post.
Or maybe you cant add anything?


Do you really believe you'll be able to replace all the cars in the world with electric vehicles ? Where is the power gonna come from? Wind? :lol: And what about the emissions related to building all these cars, nuclear reactors etc?

"Technology will saves us" is essentially the gist of your messgae, and thats the big problem. Technology wil not save us because this isn't a technological problem, its a social/economical problem. Human activity is inherently pollutive and so is energy use. There is no green energy and there is no green growth. Growth = pollution and CO2 emissions.

As long as growth is the operative word of our civilisation, there is no hope. What we need is fewer people, less energy use, less consumption, less everything. Fewer buildings, fewer cars, fewer TVs, fewer smartphones, fewer computers, etc etc.
Anything else is "magical thiking" bullshit.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Heymans wrote:
Farva wrote:
Heymans wrote:
Farva wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
All this talk about finding this that and the other solution is bollox. Ever since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet for human habitation. Maybe previous generations knew the score. I know this generation certainly knows It's f**king the planet and there will be no magic solution found. There is no money in finding a solution that lets us keep doing what we want and prevent global warming.


Disagree. I think we can achieve zero carbon emission energy production by utilising storage and solar / wind generation, and then utilise EVs such that there are zero emissions from vehicles too. I think these are already, or will become so soon, cost effective solutions.
I also think deforestation can be managed through revegetation regimes.
That covers the major forms of carbon emissions. Livestock account for around 18% and cement manufacture account for around 5% of greenhouse gas emissions and I think they will be tough to bring down.


Wow. What an absolutely retarded post. Remarkable.

Perhaps a response explaining why as opposed to just a dismissive post.
Or maybe you cant add anything?


Do you really believe you'll be able to replace all the cars in the world with electric vehicles ? Where is the power gonna come from? Wind? :lol: And what about the emissions related to building all these cars, nuclear reactors etc?

"Technology will saves us" is essentially the gist of your messgae, and thats the big problem. Technology wil not save us because this isn't a technological problem, its a social/economical problem. Human activity is inherently pollutive and so is energy use. There is no green energy and there is no green growth. Growth = pollution and CO2 emissions.

As long as growth is the operative word of our civilisation, there is no hope. What we need is fewer people, less energy use, less consumption, less everything. Fewer buildings, fewer cars, fewer TVs, fewer smartphones, fewer computers, etc etc.
Anything else is "magical thiking" bullshit.


Don't need to be able to eliminate CO2 emissions. Massively reduce, yes, eliminate, no. So take all the easy stuff first - domestic electricity, car journeys under 100 miles, large slabs of industrial production. Then work from there.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:31 pm 
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hermie wrote:
etherman wrote:
I see Scottish Power are selling the gas powered plants in order to go 100% renewable. But are also flogging their hydro plants which is a bit of a head scratcher.

It's a national disgrace that Scotland can do so much with offshore wind but Ireland can't.


Scotland is only just getting some real projects in offshore wind, Ireland could easily catch up but the gov here is hopeless on energy and even more hopeless around offshore wind, will be lucky if we see anything more than a token project in the next decade


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
bimboman wrote:


Ah. I should've checked who I was replying to. :roll:



You could have answered the actual question as well. All these options.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:58 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
You could have answered the actual question as well. All these options.


Swings and roundabouts.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Yes, through a Malthusian crisis of flood famine and subsequent war.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:18 pm 
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Gwenno wrote:
Yes, through a Malthusian crisis of flood famine and subsequent war.

"solve climate change" as in final solution then yes.

runaway climate change will make the planet uninhabitable for most mammals

the insects will make a better go of it.


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