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Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:03 am
by openclashXX
Called up for Scotland after joining the England squad earlier this year

Changed his tune from "I'm more English than Scottish" to "I've been Scottish through and through, England just asked me first"

Astonishing stuff :lol:

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:05 am
by slick
We are all shaking our heads a bit at this as well.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:09 am
by DragsterDriver
FairPlay to him, his dad will be chuffed.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:09 am
by David990
From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:12 am
by dargotronV.1
Welcome back home Gary

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:14 am
by Steamin Beamin
David990 wrote:From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.

He was the one that phoned Toony according to the SRU release about his call up. I don't think Eddie Jones was ever going to cap him, it was just some sort of shite attempt at a wind up. The lad seems a bit fiery and said some dumb shit off record, he wouldn't be the first young man to fire his mouth off in the heat of the moment.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:14 am
by I like haggis
I feel sorry for Gary Graham to be honest.

He got played by Jones. Not his fault he has a famous dad and the SRU weeks prior to his call up parked the tanks firmly on their lawn with announcing the Scottish qualified programme and all the scouts we now have in England. Jones was just trolling us back.

He got lost in a cynical tug of war. Hopefully he has a decent international career and makes us all forgot about that interview.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:15 am
by Theflier
David990 wrote:From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.
The Scottish eligibility of this being having any form of obscure relation to the nation.

When do we stop saying Scotland and start saying World XV?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:19 am
by slick
Theflier wrote:
David990 wrote:From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.
The Scottish eligibility of this being having any form of obscure relation to the nation.

When do we stop saying Scotland and start saying World XV?
What?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:20 am
by I like haggis
Theflier wrote:
David990 wrote:From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.
The Scottish eligibility of this being having any form of obscure relation to the nation.

When do we stop saying Scotland and start saying World XV?
The same time we start with all the other countries who all use residency and grandmothers as we do?

At least we're tempting adults to play for Scotland rather than harvesting talented kids from hard up families in Pi nations.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:20 am
by Market Square Hero
Theflier wrote:
David990 wrote:From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.
The Scottish eligibility of this being having any form of obscure relation to the nation.

When do we stop saying Scotland and start saying World XV?
After several reads of your 'point' ...I'm still not entirely sure what gibberish you're spouting. Graham made a mistake and got played ...so what? His Dad's Scottish and a former international, so his 'eligibility' was never in question.

Can I suggest you pay a visit to Falkirk?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:24 am
by 4071
Another pure-bred Englishman poached by the thieving Scots. Have they no shame!?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:27 am
by openclashXX
I'm loving the Scottish narrative of Graham being maliciously "played" by Eddie Jones :lol:

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:35 am
by zt1903
Theflier wrote:
David990 wrote:From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.
The Scottish eligibility of this being having any form of obscure relation to the nation.

When do we stop saying Scotland and start saying World XV?
Say what?

Gary Graham was born in Scotland to Scottish parents. His father played for Scotland.

It was England that were trying to residency poach him.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:40 am
by I like haggis
openclashXX wrote:I'm loving the Scottish narrative of Graham being maliciously "played" by Eddie Jones :lol:
He was, a player with under 10 appearances for lowly Newcastle just happens to be called up by notorious wind up Eddie Jones at the first opportunity after Scottish rugby are all in the press talking about Scottish qualified Englishmen? Awfully coincidental.

Does anyone really think Gary Graham is good enough for England? Especially as at the time England were beating all comers. What's he was called up instead of the far better player in Mark Wilson! As if Eddie Jones was more impressed with Graham's Anglo Welsh and Challenge Cup appearances over Wilson and Welch's games in the Prem.

I can see why he'd jump at the chance to play for England too, playing international rugby for a team that had lost 1 game in 2 years and a country he grew up for £22,000 a match is an opportunity and a half.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:45 am
by Steamin Beamin
I like haggis wrote:
openclashXX wrote:I'm loving the Scottish narrative of Graham being maliciously "played" by Eddie Jones :lol:
He was, a player with under 10 appearances for lowly Newcastle just happens to be called up by notorious wind up Eddie Jones at the first opportunity after Scottish rugby are all in the press talking about Scottish qualified Englishmen? Awfully coincidental.

Does anyone really think Gary Graham is good enough for England? Especially as at the time England were beating all comers. What's he was called up instead of the far better player in Mark Wilson! As if Eddie Jones was more impressed with Graham's Anglo Welsh and Challenge Cup appearances over Wilson and Welch's games in the Prem.

I can see why he'd jump at the chance to play for England too, playing international rugby for a team that had lost 1 game in 2 years and a country he grew up for £22,000 a match is an opportunity and a half.

I think Don Armand was the player most people expected to get a call up, then he called up GG.

He's also only in the training squad, he may end up not being capped at all.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:48 am
by I like haggis
Steamin Beamin wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
openclashXX wrote:I'm loving the Scottish narrative of Graham being maliciously "played" by Eddie Jones :lol:
He was, a player with under 10 appearances for lowly Newcastle just happens to be called up by notorious wind up Eddie Jones at the first opportunity after Scottish rugby are all in the press talking about Scottish qualified Englishmen? Awfully coincidental.

Does anyone really think Gary Graham is good enough for England? Especially as at the time England were beating all comers. What's he was called up instead of the far better player in Mark Wilson! As if Eddie Jones was more impressed with Graham's Anglo Welsh and Challenge Cup appearances over Wilson and Welch's games in the Prem.

I can see why he'd jump at the chance to play for England too, playing international rugby for a team that had lost 1 game in 2 years and a country he grew up for £22,000 a match is an opportunity and a half.

I think Don Armand was the player most people expected to get a call up, then he called up GG.
Even so, look how good Mark Wilson is playing for England now. And had a good game for England in Argentina over the Lions iirc.

And Jones went for GG who at the time had barely played for Newcastle over Wilson on merit? Come on.

GG carried out his England squad function with that interview and was swiftly cast off.

Let's call a spade a spade. He was played. It was Eddie Jones playing an effective trick. Look how much it's wound people (probably myself included) up.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:58 am
by Nieghorn
Regardless of the above, he’s a heck of a player and I hope he gets on vs England and has a stormer.

Cut to a clip of Geoge doing this in his garden... :D

https://youtu.be/7psYiGeBNEY

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:25 pm
by Steamin Beamin
I like haggis wrote:
Steamin Beamin wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
openclashXX wrote:I'm loving the Scottish narrative of Graham being maliciously "played" by Eddie Jones :lol:
He was, a player with under 10 appearances for lowly Newcastle just happens to be called up by notorious wind up Eddie Jones at the first opportunity after Scottish rugby are all in the press talking about Scottish qualified Englishmen? Awfully coincidental.

Does anyone really think Gary Graham is good enough for England? Especially as at the time England were beating all comers. What's he was called up instead of the far better player in Mark Wilson! As if Eddie Jones was more impressed with Graham's Anglo Welsh and Challenge Cup appearances over Wilson and Welch's games in the Prem.

I can see why he'd jump at the chance to play for England too, playing international rugby for a team that had lost 1 game in 2 years and a country he grew up for £22,000 a match is an opportunity and a half.

I think Don Armand was the player most people expected to get a call up, then he called up GG.
Even so, look how good Mark Wilson is playing for England now. And had a good game for England in Argentina over the Lions iirc.

And Jones went for GG who at the time had barely played for Newcastle over Wilson on merit? Come on.

GG carried out his England squad function with that interview and was swiftly cast off.

Let's call a spade a spade. He was played. It was Eddie Jones playing an effective trick. Look how much it's wound people (probably myself included) up.
I agree with you.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:32 pm
by HKCJ
When I was 7 years old and didn’t know any better I was pictured in an England shirt bought my next door neighbour who was winding my Dad up. You can never wash away the shame.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:38 pm
by Big D
There is also quite an injury list that has led to his call up to the squad.
Barclay
Bradbury
Thomson
Denton

Was wondering if he and/or Vellacott would return to the Scottish international set up after playing all their age grade internationals up here.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:04 pm
by Market Square Hero
HKCJ wrote:When I was 7 years old and didn’t know any better I was pictured in an England shirt bought my next door neighbour who was winding my Dad up. You can never wash away the shame.
I think you know what to do ...

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:36 pm
by Nolanator
EverReady wrote:Cut to next week 'when I heard my grandmother was Irish it made sense as I was always a big fan of B*witched'
Do some people say that he looks like his da'?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:32 pm
by Fenman
openclashXX wrote:I'm loving the Scottish narrative of Graham being maliciously "played" by Eddie Jones :lol:
Falcons still have Gary's younger brother though. He's not qualified yet and he's not good enough yet, but there's still a chance to get the last laugh.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:44 pm
by JM2K6
Graham made sense as a big hitting hard bastard flanker who wouldn't be bullied if we needed to select him. You don't need conspiracy theories about Eddie Jones to see that Eddie loves a bit of mongrel.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:54 pm
by Gospel
Maybe Eddie did the lad a favour by not capping him so was still eligible for Scotland. Surely it would be pretty disingenuous to cap someone dual qualified if you had no intention to use them long term just so they can't play for the opposition.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:02 pm
by BlackMac
Theflier wrote:
David990 wrote:From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.
The Scottish eligibility of this being having any form of obscure relation to the nation.

When do we stop saying Scotland and start saying World XV?
It's probably fairly obvious given the incoherent rant you have just posted. But just how dumb are you?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:06 pm
by BlackMac
Gospel wrote:Maybe Eddie did the lad a favour by not capping him so was still eligible for Scotland. Surely it would be pretty disingenuous to cap someone dual qualified if you had no intention to use them long term just so they can't play for the opposition.
You would hope so but with Jones there is every possibility he was mischief making.

His dad said at the time that he was being very badly advised, and you should always listen to your old man.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:55 pm
by Doc Rob
BlackMac wrote:
Gospel wrote:Maybe Eddie did the lad a favour by not capping him so was still eligible for Scotland. Surely it would be pretty disingenuous to cap someone dual qualified if you had no intention to use them long term just so they can't play for the opposition.
You would hope so but with Jones there is every possibility he was mischief making.

His dad said at the time that he was being very badly advised, and you should always listen to your old man.
Of course he was mischief-making. He did the same with Vellacott, and also Cam Redpath. None of them was going to make the England team - in fact Redpath had something like two pro games under his belt. Either Jones put them in the squad to wind up the SRU, or we’re saying it’s just a coincidence that two of these unlikely picks have dads who played for Scotland, and the other played U20 for us.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:00 pm
by CrazyIslander
Eddie Jones played him? Is he a bagpipe?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:02 pm
by JM2K6
Er... Vellacott was a reasonable shout as one of the top 5 scrum halves in the league. Cam Redpath tore it up for England at age grade. Both are eligible players plying their trade in England.

There's been plenty of English youngsters called up to experience life in the squad. Calling up players to training squads who aren't going to play internationals yet is an entirely normal thing to do as part of the player's development.

Honestly, this is a weird conspiracy theory. Why would Eddie Jones give two shits about Scotland? If this was an attempt to screw with Scotland, why wouldn't he then cap these guys at the end of an Italy game or something?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:10 pm
by Doc Rob
JM2K6 wrote:Er... Vellacott was a reasonable shout as one of the top 5 scrum halves in the league. Cam Redpath tore it up for England at age grade. Both are eligible players plying their trade in England.

There's been plenty of English youngsters called up to experience life in the squad. Calling up players to training squads who aren't going to play internationals yet is an entirely normal thing to do as part of the player's development.

Honestly, this is a weird conspiracy theory. Why would Eddie Jones give two shits about Scotland? If this was an attempt to screw with Scotland, why wouldn't he then cap these guys at the end of an Italy game or something?
Because he likes his headgames, but he isn’t a complete arsehole and doesn’t actually want to tie the players down forever just in order to wind people up?

It’s hardly a conspiracy, either. It’s just Eddie Jones, who you have to admit has form for messing with people.

Yes, I agree youngsters are sometimes called into the squad. It just seems odd that two with strong Scots connections were called into it in quick succession, along with Graham, who isn’t a youngster.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:12 pm
by DragsterDriver
I’m a fan but suspect he may be a compete arsehole tbf.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:22 pm
by Joost
Who knows, Graham may well have played in the 6N if he hadn’t succumbed to the England training injury curse - his callup was left field at the time, but he’s looked quality for Newcastle since then - EJ saw something in him and brought him into the squad, can’t see there’s anything more to it than that.

He has a record of promoting players based purely on mongrel/attitude from tough backgrounds, often before they’ve established themselves at club level (Genge, Sinckler, Boyce) - GG fits that profile and it makes way more sense than some daft conspiracy theory.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:25 pm
by Big D
To be fair Vellacott is English, even if he did play for Scotland age grade.

Cam is SQ through his Dad, but French born and English through residency (his mum too?).

It makes perfect sense for both players to stay EQ and in the English system for their careers at this stage.

The SRU had a shot at Vellacott but by all accounts would not offer him a professional contract with Glasgow but discussed an academy one.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:39 pm
by malky
Theflier wrote:
David990 wrote:From Mark Palmer on twitter. "Changed his tune from 9 months ago when he said "England want to be No1 in the World & i'm not sure Scotland will ever be anywhere near. I've grown up here so, yeah i feel more English than Scottish." Guess he's had plenty time to think about what E Jones might have been up to."

Hope he got on his hands a knees and begged to be let in.
The Scottish eligibility of this being having any form of obscure relation to the nation.

When do we stop saying Scotland and start saying World XV?
I've suspected that you were a clueless knob for some time - thank you for proving that my intuition is still sound.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:46 pm
by JM2K6
Doc Rob wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Er... Vellacott was a reasonable shout as one of the top 5 scrum halves in the league. Cam Redpath tore it up for England at age grade. Both are eligible players plying their trade in England.

There's been plenty of English youngsters called up to experience life in the squad. Calling up players to training squads who aren't going to play internationals yet is an entirely normal thing to do as part of the player's development.

Honestly, this is a weird conspiracy theory. Why would Eddie Jones give two shits about Scotland? If this was an attempt to screw with Scotland, why wouldn't he then cap these guys at the end of an Italy game or something?
Because he likes his headgames, but he isn’t a complete arsehole and doesn’t actually want to tie the players down forever just in order to wind people up?

It’s hardly a conspiracy, either. It’s just Eddie Jones, who you have to admit has form for messing with people.

Yes, I agree youngsters are sometimes called into the squad. It just seems odd that two with strong Scots connections were called into it in quick succession, along with Graham, who isn’t a youngster.
But who exactly is impacted by those headgames? Eddie likes to make public proclamations and say weird things, but that's a mile away from literally giving training spots to players in order to mess with... who? The Scots? Forgive me, but even given the drubbing I don't think Eddie's so worried about Scotland as to start calling up people just to mess with them.

It's also a bad way to mess with people. Oh no, you've joined our training squad, gotten some coaching, gotten some insight into how England operate. How awful for Scotland that must be(!)

You're turning coincidence into conspiracy. None of us really knew much about Gary Graham but since Eddie's interest he's been getting more press and it's clear what he brings is in line with what Eddie likes from English flankers. Ben Vellacott was a legitimate choice. Cameron Redpath was a legitimate choice and was due to tour to SA, which makes it even less likely it was "mind games" - you don't take people on a touring squad for that minor a reason.

Two of these guys missed caps through injury (Redpath, Graham) as well.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:49 pm
by Jeff the Bear
Market Square Hero wrote:
HKCJ wrote:When I was 7 years old and didn’t know any better I was pictured in an England shirt bought my next door neighbour who was winding my Dad up. You can never wash away the shame.
I think you know what to do ...
Inject skag while eating a battered mars bar that's been fried in Irn Bru to reaffirm his national identity? Seems a bit harsh, but each to their own I suppose.

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:53 pm
by Scrumhead
Joost wrote:Who knows, Graham may well have played in the 6N if he hadn’t succumbed to the England training injury curse - his callup was left field at the time, but he’s looked quality for Newcastle since then - EJ saw something in him and brought him into the squad, can’t see there’s anything more to it than that.

He has a record of promoting players based purely on mongrel/attitude from tough backgrounds, often before they’ve established themselves at club level (Genge, Sinckler, Boyce) - GG fits that profile and it makes way more sense than some daft conspiracy theory.
Agreed. I have no problem whatsoever with Gary Graham’s decision although I do think Eddie saw something there he likes rather than just trolling Scotland.

At the time we showed an interest in Vellacott, he was doing well for Gloucester and others have said, he is more English than Scottish despite playing at age grade for Scotland.

Redpath is a bit more contentious given who his dad is, but as a player who is legitimately English-qualified and has shone in the age grades, why would Eddie not take a look?

Re: Gary Graham undeclares for England, joins Scotland squad

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:53 pm
by eldanielfire
Doc Rob wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Er... Vellacott was a reasonable shout as one of the top 5 scrum halves in the league. Cam Redpath tore it up for England at age grade. Both are eligible players plying their trade in England.

There's been plenty of English youngsters called up to experience life in the squad. Calling up players to training squads who aren't going to play internationals yet is an entirely normal thing to do as part of the player's development.

Honestly, this is a weird conspiracy theory. Why would Eddie Jones give two shits about Scotland? If this was an attempt to screw with Scotland, why wouldn't he then cap these guys at the end of an Italy game or something?
Because he likes his headgames, but he isn’t a complete arsehole and doesn’t actually want to tie the players down forever just in order to wind people up?

It’s hardly a conspiracy, either. It’s just Eddie Jones, who you have to admit has form for messing with people.

Yes, I agree youngsters are sometimes called into the squad. It just seems odd that two with strong Scots connections were called into it in quick succession, along with Graham, who isn’t a youngster.
Already there is a flaw to your argument.